What interesting applications are you thinking of?
Using it proactively on your own creatures seems like a recipe for disaster - compare with something like Entreat the Angels which makes one less Angel for the same cost, but doesn't require you to have any creatures to start with, let alone sacrifice them, and there's Miracle to boot.
It's okay versus spot removal I guess, but certainly not super amazing.
Using it on your opponent's creatures will mostly result in making them bigger. Compare to Pongify on the one hand and Curse of the Swine on the other. Neither are really playable Cube cards.
I guess it's a pretty flexible card, but flexibility alone doesn't make it Cubeable.
The fact that this is an instant means that you can prepare a surprise lethal attack at the end of an opponent's turn who thought he was safe. You can also ambush attackers by turning small creatures (including tapped ones) into surprise blockers.
Rapid Hybridization has been off and on in my cube. This losses a little to that in a the sense that exiling target creature for 1 blue was very efficient. Where these cards are really good is the U/B attrition deck. End of turn target my Geralf's Messenger, gravecrawler, epocrosite, etc.
Alas it is a little narrow for cube but in peasant or regualr limited this will be a blow out.
This card certainly does not suck. If you have 2 cheap dudes down (or tokens) you can turn them into 8 evasive power for 3UU. It'll be beastly in C/Ubes, but I also think it's a cool playable effect for larger cubes, especially with a heavy token/tempo theme in blue.
And it's an INSTANT. So you can exile a cheap tapped beater, make a 4/4 blocker to kill off one of their attackers, and have a good sized dude left behind. Blue combat tricks are pretty swell.
I want to cube this card as I would love to add a blue combat trick with so many potential applications. Having a hard time coming up with the cut though. I'm in the middle of an email Roto draft of my cube, so maybe I'll peruse the blue dregs when we finish. Maybe a cut for fun's sake? Something like Capsize?
If the card said "Put a mcguffin counter on target creature. creatures with mcguffin counters on them are 4/4 flyers", it would be essentially the same thing, outside of corner cases.
Also, not everything that exiles creatures is even remotely powerfu
If the card said "Put a mcguffin counter on target creature. creatures with mcguffin counters on them are 4/4 flyers", it would be essentially the same thing, outside of corner cases.
I don't think so. The card's an instant. Exiling one of your cheap tapped dudes and getting an untapped 4/4 flying blocker is really good, and will be a lot of what it's used for, IMO.
I was more responding to his belief that blue shouldn't exile opponent's creatures. The example isn't perfect, but I was trying to show him that his fears were unfounded since the wording could change and still essentially exile the opponent's guys, just without exiling them
dschumm, your argument does not make sense. First, you said argued that blue is not the color of transmogrifying effects. Other people gave examples that it is.
Next, you stated that while you understand that, any card that reads "Exile target creature" is "hugely powerful" (such as Voidwalk?). Leelue demonstrated that the "exile" was just part of making it function in a simple way, and it could functionally work similarly without the exile. Either version is still in blue's color pie. PyreDream then pointed out a bunch of weak blue cards with the term "exile target creature" in them. Blue still can't just annihilate a creature, it can only transform them. Hour of Need definitely does not allow you assert that blue can do anything.
Lastly, you state that removal is supposed to be weak in blue. Removal IS the weak spot for blue, Hour of Need does not change this as it is not removal. Most creatures are worse than an air elemental, and a 4/4 flyer is still a huge threat. The only time Hour of Need removes a creature is when it flashes in a 4/4 blocker and eats an attacker, and that part doesn't even have anything to do with the "exile" portion. You can claim that somebody could exile an opponent's creature, and then bounce it. Sure. On the same token, I could bounce an opposing creature and counter it when that player tries to cast it. That's something blue has ALWAYS had. Both are two card combos, and are janky ways to get removal in blue.
tl;dr - I don't understand your position, dschumm. Hour of Need doesn't really have anything to do with what you said. Transformation is super blue, Hour of Need is likely not "hugely powerful," and blue still doesn't have free access to removal without a lot of work.
I wasn't trying to start a fight. I just hope that wizards can come up with such interesting cards to cover design spaces for the other colors. I would love it if they could spread counterspells, card draw, and selection around( more than just scry) attaching it to green's 'nature sense', white's 'battle planning' , and black's 'power for sacrifice', as well as red's aggression.
For a more specific example look at red's looting. Their idea of making it flavorful is to make it 'random' i.e. make it suck. I am not saying saying make it as good as blue. But you could have had a looter that exile the top card and you can play it this turn only, or take damage.
Making a 4/4 is a drawback, but it is utterly controllable by the caster. If a 4/4 is relevant in the game state you turn your guy into one, or hit an undying guy. Often I can see this hitting one of my guys and one of your guys and making parity out of your stormbreath dragon and my omenspeaker. Not shabby.
So no statement of any surprise that wizards made this card. Just more evidence to me that island is the best card in magic.
Actually, for red looting, it's now discard first then draw, unless I'm mistaken. The flavor is that red didn't think much.
Blue might get to do a lot of stuff, but it didn't do some stuff as well as the other colors. Like this card, for example. It's a pretty uncubeable card. Maybe when blue get Sword to Plowshare removal, but really not now.
I wasn't trying to start a fight. I just hope that wizards can come up with such interesting cards to cover design spaces for the other colors. I would love it if they could spread counterspells, card draw, and selection around( more than just scry) attaching it to green's 'nature sense', white's 'battle planning' , and black's 'power for sacrifice', as well as red's aggression.
No personal offense meant by my statements at all, sorry if you took it that way. I wanted you to clarify your argument and define your points of contention. However, you are arguing for something entirely different here than what you stated before. Let me get this clear- you're saying other colors should be stronger relative to blue, using Hour of Need's power as evidence that blue is OP?
Making a 4/4 is a drawback, but it is utterly controllable by the caster. If a 4/4 is relevant in the game state you turn your guy into one, or hit an undying guy. Often I can see this hitting one of my guys and one of your guys and making parity out of your stormbreath dragon and my omenspeaker. Not shabby.
So no statement of any surprise that wizards made this card. Just more evidence to me that island is the best card in magic.
Making a 4/4 flying token is a controllable drawback, but it's certainly not trivial. Spending 3UU to create board parity between a Stormbreath Dragon and an Omenspeaker is not what I want to be doing if I want to be playing the best cards. I'd be playing Treachery or Control Magic and have a situation much better than parity. All-in-all, of any of the cards you could have picked to say blue is OP, Hour of Need is probably the incorrect one.
Don't get me wrong, I love Hour of Need and I'm going to run it in my peasant cube. But it's not evidence of anything besides the fact that they're willing to put a high complexity card at uncommon in blue that has a high ceiling of usability.
Just think this card deserves discussion. Don't think it will fit in most cubes but does have some interesting applications.
My 450 Cube
Using it proactively on your own creatures seems like a recipe for disaster - compare with something like Entreat the Angels which makes one less Angel for the same cost, but doesn't require you to have any creatures to start with, let alone sacrifice them, and there's Miracle to boot.
It's okay versus spot removal I guess, but certainly not super amazing.
Using it on your opponent's creatures will mostly result in making them bigger. Compare to Pongify on the one hand and Curse of the Swine on the other. Neither are really playable Cube cards.
I guess it's a pretty flexible card, but flexibility alone doesn't make it Cubeable.
Am I missing something?
A Comprehensive list of Cube Archetypes
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Alas it is a little narrow for cube but in peasant or regualr limited this will be a blow out.
And it's an INSTANT. So you can exile a cheap tapped beater, make a 4/4 blocker to kill off one of their attackers, and have a good sized dude left behind. Blue combat tricks are pretty swell.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
All these random token cards are just making my Sundering Growth better and better. If you skipped it before, take another look.
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/993
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/23690
Also, not everything that exiles creatures is even remotely powerfu
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Blue's creature exile is hugely powerful? Not from where I'm sitting.
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thats my cube
I don't think so. The card's an instant. Exiling one of your cheap tapped dudes and getting an untapped 4/4 flying blocker is really good, and will be a lot of what it's used for, IMO.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Next, you stated that while you understand that, any card that reads "Exile target creature" is "hugely powerful" (such as Voidwalk?). Leelue demonstrated that the "exile" was just part of making it function in a simple way, and it could functionally work similarly without the exile. Either version is still in blue's color pie. PyreDream then pointed out a bunch of weak blue cards with the term "exile target creature" in them. Blue still can't just annihilate a creature, it can only transform them. Hour of Need definitely does not allow you assert that blue can do anything.
Lastly, you state that removal is supposed to be weak in blue. Removal IS the weak spot for blue, Hour of Need does not change this as it is not removal. Most creatures are worse than an air elemental, and a 4/4 flyer is still a huge threat. The only time Hour of Need removes a creature is when it flashes in a 4/4 blocker and eats an attacker, and that part doesn't even have anything to do with the "exile" portion. You can claim that somebody could exile an opponent's creature, and then bounce it. Sure. On the same token, I could bounce an opposing creature and counter it when that player tries to cast it. That's something blue has ALWAYS had. Both are two card combos, and are janky ways to get removal in blue.
tl;dr - I don't understand your position, dschumm. Hour of Need doesn't really have anything to do with what you said. Transformation is super blue, Hour of Need is likely not "hugely powerful," and blue still doesn't have free access to removal without a lot of work.
Cubetutor link - 380 Peasant Cube
For a more specific example look at red's looting. Their idea of making it flavorful is to make it 'random' i.e. make it suck. I am not saying saying make it as good as blue. But you could have had a looter that exile the top card and you can play it this turn only, or take damage.
Making a 4/4 is a drawback, but it is utterly controllable by the caster. If a 4/4 is relevant in the game state you turn your guy into one, or hit an undying guy. Often I can see this hitting one of my guys and one of your guys and making parity out of your stormbreath dragon and my omenspeaker. Not shabby.
So no statement of any surprise that wizards made this card. Just more evidence to me that island is the best card in magic.
Blue might get to do a lot of stuff, but it didn't do some stuff as well as the other colors. Like this card, for example. It's a pretty uncubeable card. Maybe when blue get Sword to Plowshare removal, but really not now.
And every color actually have access to cantrip.
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I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
Making a 4/4 flying token is a controllable drawback, but it's certainly not trivial. Spending 3UU to create board parity between a Stormbreath Dragon and an Omenspeaker is not what I want to be doing if I want to be playing the best cards. I'd be playing Treachery or Control Magic and have a situation much better than parity. All-in-all, of any of the cards you could have picked to say blue is OP, Hour of Need is probably the incorrect one.
Don't get me wrong, I love Hour of Need and I'm going to run it in my peasant cube. But it's not evidence of anything besides the fact that they're willing to put a high complexity card at uncommon in blue that has a high ceiling of usability.
Cubetutor link - 380 Peasant Cube