Right, so I'm Working on my first cube and would like a PW in every 2 color combination, however I am very against land destruction. Is there a way to exclude him and still have the balance of power feel right in this regard?
One card tapping lands will not do anything with your balance. If you want to exclude him, just do. Planes walkers are not inherently better then other cards (thought they often are very, very good)so having one colour combination without a walker is fine. You will replace with another powerful card.
Land destruction is just another tool for decks. Just like counters, creature removal and hard controls card like Wrath and Moat.
Ajani will almost never, ever go ultimate. If you're concerned about that, don't be. It takes 5 turns of him being completely left alone and of you never activating his best ability, the -2, for that to happen. I have literally never seen ajani go ultimate in a game. Ever.
If you think his +1 is a little too much like land destruction, that is a concern, However, it's never been an ability that felt unfair to me, and if he's keeping lands tapped he's not keeping creatures tapped to protect himself, so he's easier to take care of.
In short, Ajani almost never feels like land destruction, so it's probably not necessary to exclude him on those grounds. However, if you do exclude him, no exclusion of a single card is going to destroy the balance of your cube. You can still have a great experience using the next-best boros card. In the cube I normally draft, 3 of the guilds don't have walkers (and there's a pretty strong argument for not using any of the GB walkers, we keep vraska in because we like her), and that never feels unbalanced.
If you want a Walker in his color pairs, he's the only option. He's also very strong sheerly on the back of his +1 and -2, arguably the best Boros card. I would recommend against excluding him.
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In my cube, I have no walkers in UB, BR, GW, BG, or GU. The only one of those I'm actually tempted to add a walker to is GU, I don't think my cube suffers for their lack.
If you don't like vengeant, don't run him.
But his ult is virtually never, ever going to happen. His -2 is just way too good.
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Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
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I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
I have literally never seen ajani go ultimate in a game. Ever.
But his ult is virtually never, ever going to happen.
I've had it go ultimate on several occasions; 1 of which had the ability targeted by a Willbender! I've seen him go ultimate more than several other 'walkers which have a 0-1 ultimate activation count.
Ajani Vengeant has gone ultimate numerous times, and it's pretty much game over. What a great Planeswalker, especially since one of the best ways for aggressive decks to win (especially in these colors) is to have early threats backed up by disruption; black usually does discard, blue does countermagic, and red/white is all about mana denial.
I have literally never seen ajani go ultimate in a game. Ever.
But his ult is virtually never, ever going to happen.
I've had it go ultimate on several occasions; 1 of which had the ability targeted by a Willbender! I've seen him go ultimate more than several other 'walkers which have a 0-1 ultimate activation count.
In cube? I don't play much EDH or kitchen table, I guess I could see him ulting there, but as I said, I've never seen him ult in cube. Usually you lose to other cards if you're in a position where you can do nothing to a walker for 5+ turns. Maybe my group just loves repeatable helix too much.
Did something cause this trend where people are caring about ultimates on planeswalkers lately?
[Yeah, it doesn't tend to matter much but it still locks stuff down/kills stuff/people.]
Did something cause this trend where people are caring about ultimates on planeswalkers lately?
[Yeah, it doesn't tend to matter much but it still locks stuff down/kills stuff/people.]
I am with you on this one. Ultimates are like icing on the cake. Nice to have, but the crucial part is the cake. In percentages ultimates are maybe 5% to 10% of a walkers worth, if even that. It is not the ultimate that is important, is is the threat of the ultimate that is important.
Ultimates rarely happen, or if they do it doesn't matter that much what it is as you win anyway. If they happen it is because the opponent is controlled and they tend to give up before it happens.
Ajani has gone ultimate around these parts too many times to count. Locking something down is a big game and more relevant than Lightning Helix almost half the time.
Really, you don't run Vengeant for his ability to perform the One-Sided 'Geddon Fandango.
I, too, have never actually seen his ultimate go off in a Cube environment, but that's more a factor of him being too busy locking stuff down and popping off Helices. And that's what you play him for. You play Vengeant because you're trying to pull off an incredible Boros-flavoured victory and you need some level of control for the other side of the board, not because you want to blow all your opponent's lands away and dance on their ashes. And Vengeant does the former very, very well. Run it, he won't disappoint you.
(And let's face it, if your entire meta has a conscience when it comes to land destruction, in the same way you do, they likely won't activate it on principle anyway)
I run him. He's absolutely one of the best Boros cards. I've only gotten his ultimate ability to go off once. It was, of course, a blowout, but it got that way in part because of all the other Ajani activations up until that point.
Land destruction is just another tool for decks. Just like counters, creature removal and hard controls card like Wrath and Moat.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
If you think his +1 is a little too much like land destruction, that is a concern, However, it's never been an ability that felt unfair to me, and if he's keeping lands tapped he's not keeping creatures tapped to protect himself, so he's easier to take care of.
In short, Ajani almost never feels like land destruction, so it's probably not necessary to exclude him on those grounds. However, if you do exclude him, no exclusion of a single card is going to destroy the balance of your cube. You can still have a great experience using the next-best boros card. In the cube I normally draft, 3 of the guilds don't have walkers (and there's a pretty strong argument for not using any of the GB walkers, we keep vraska in because we like her), and that never feels unbalanced.
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If you don't like vengeant, don't run him.
But his ult is virtually never, ever going to happen. His -2 is just way too good.
I've had it go ultimate on several occasions; 1 of which had the ability targeted by a Willbender! I've seen him go ultimate more than several other 'walkers which have a 0-1 ultimate activation count.
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In cube? I don't play much EDH or kitchen table, I guess I could see him ulting there, but as I said, I've never seen him ult in cube. Usually you lose to other cards if you're in a position where you can do nothing to a walker for 5+ turns. Maybe my group just loves repeatable helix too much.
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[Yeah, it doesn't tend to matter much but it still locks stuff down/kills stuff/people.]
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I am with you on this one. Ultimates are like icing on the cake. Nice to have, but the crucial part is the cake. In percentages ultimates are maybe 5% to 10% of a walkers worth, if even that. It is not the ultimate that is important, is is the threat of the ultimate that is important.
Ultimates rarely happen, or if they do it doesn't matter that much what it is as you win anyway. If they happen it is because the opponent is controlled and they tend to give up before it happens.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
Ajani has gone ultimate around these parts too many times to count. Locking something down is a big game and more relevant than Lightning Helix almost half the time.
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That said, this version is possibly the best one. And he was available in promo! Sweet! If only Wizards does this nowadays.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I, too, have never actually seen his ultimate go off in a Cube environment, but that's more a factor of him being too busy locking stuff down and popping off Helices. And that's what you play him for. You play Vengeant because you're trying to pull off an incredible Boros-flavoured victory and you need some level of control for the other side of the board, not because you want to blow all your opponent's lands away and dance on their ashes. And Vengeant does the former very, very well. Run it, he won't disappoint you.
(And let's face it, if your entire meta has a conscience when it comes to land destruction, in the same way you do, they likely won't activate it on principle anyway)
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