@calibretto I think WotC might hear a lot of complaints about True Name Nemesis and commander price being jack up so high so they tone down the power of this year set a bit. But that's all speculation. XD. I can't really confirm that.
You're probably right, man. I doubt we'll get another high caliber card like that.
Testing:
Feldon of the Third Path in place of Fulminator Mage
Dualcaster Mage in place of Guttersnipe
Daretti, Scrap Savant in place of Goblin Settler
Flesh Carver in place of Geralf's Messenger
Malicious Affliction in place of Chainer's Edict
Hallowed Spiritkeeper in place of Pianna, Nomad Captain
I will be trying to support Artifacts Matter a bit more deeply now to justify Daretti and Feldon, adding Thirst for Knowledge, Tezz 1.0 and The Abyss back in for testing... gonna wait and see what the next few days bring first.
So far, I'm including Flesh Carver and Ob Nixilis. Moved from auto including Malicious Affliction to testing. Kind of cooling off from the initial hype, the mana cost is rough. Searing Blaze is still in for us, though, so it has a good chance.
It's 400 unpowered, but I run some unorthodox things for this forum, so my cuts might not be that useful information. I also usually have a list of things haven't been performing well that I plan to cut. So when some new hotness comes out or I find something I like, they just kind of slide right in, even if they don't fill the same role.
I don't understand the love for Ob Nixilis, I must be missing something, because I think he is awful. Dualcaster, feldon, fleshcarver are getting slotted as soon as I get them though. They are all solid.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I don't understand the love for Ob Nixilis, I must be missing something, because I think he is awful. Dualcaster, feldon, fleshcarver are getting slotted as soon as I get them though. They are all solid.
I think the main reason is that the 5cc slot for Black is relatively weak (apart from Shriekmaw).
Ob Nix is a 5/5 flier for 5 with upside. That's pretty good. What upsides? Well, he makes an additional 5/5 flier in two turns' time. Alternatively he's a straight up Subversion that starts straight away as a slow win-con, if that is preferable in the game state. The ultimate is largely irrelevant as you'll generally be pumping out 5/5 monsters. However, if you are running his Subversion mode, it's a pretty good emblem to get. Black's 5 drop suite is really just Shriekmaw and Herald of Torment for us so I'm happy to try him out. Black is also very lacking in PWs and another decent one is welcome.
I am unlikely to jump on any of the cards right away for my unpowered 450.
The standouts that I will probably pick up at some point just to have on deck (singles from this set will probably be pretty reasonable):
Malicious Affliction: Double black is rough, but it has the leveragable upside of cards I want in my cube. Dualcaster mage: Same as above, and I always wanted a fork effect in cube. Blink just doesn't work as well for this as other etb effects. Why couldn't he be a 3/1, I am desperate for more damage out of my red 3 drops.
Titania, Protector of Argoth: I can't argue with how strong this is, and I might have to start rotation green 5 drops as I do the 7+drops, but the first time I don't have a land in my yard when I cast this it would get cut immediately.
Daretti, Scarp Savant: When I get moxes some day and Goblin welder goes in, so will this guy.
Feldon of the Third Path: I think maybe in a different cube, or if I give up on red tokens this guy might have a home supporting reanimator.
I am really not as big on Flesh Carver. The no mana activation of Xathrid Necromancer and Grim Haruspex makes me think it unlikely this guy will be a hit.
Hallowed Spiritkeeper 1WW
Creature - Avatar
Vigilance
When Hallowed Spiritkeeper dies, put X 1/1 white Spirit tokens with flying onto the battlefield, where X is the number of creature cards in your graveyard
3/2
He seems ok if you get 1 spirit, pretty good if you get 2, and amazing if you get 3 or more. It also plays really, really well with wrath. But, 2 toughness, hard mana cost, and no evasion are all downsides. Seems to me like it would make it in bigger lists though. Anyone else have thoughts?
Yeah, make a thread. I like that guy actually. He kind of reminds me of Blade Splicer. Same CMC. Blade Splicer gives you a 3/3 first strike and a 1/1. This gives you a 3/2 vigilance now and a 1/1 flyer when it dies (it's always going to count itself, right?).
Obviously with a full yard, the upside is higher here. It's also more resilient to removal, but puts less immediate power on the board. This is also less abusable with blink effects.
Like I said, I think they are pretty close. I'll probably try to run this guy.
Hallowed Spiritkeeper 1WW
Creature - Avatar
Vigilance
When Hallowed Spiritkeeper dies, put X 1/1 white Spirit tokens with flying onto the battlefield, where X is the number of creature cards in your graveyard
3/2
He seems ok if you get 1 spirit, pretty good if you get 2, and amazing if you get 3 or more. It also plays really, really well with wrath. But, 2 toughness, hard mana cost, and no evasion are all downsides. Seems to me like it would make it in bigger lists though. Anyone else have thoughts?
I'd like it a lot more if I could bring it back with Reveillark. But I do like it and could see playing it at maybe 540+.
I don't really understand the love for Teferi PW. He's amazingly expensive for what he does, right?
KIND OF.
If you have the ability to produce 6 mana with 4 permanents, (not as hard as you may think with Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, Basalt Monolith, Worn Powerstone, Mana Crypt, Lands that produce 2+ mana, Creatures that produce 2+ mana, etc), he pays for himself the turn you play him. If you can produce 6 mana with 5 permanents, he only costs 1 mana the turn you play him.
You can play him + something else the vast majority of the time he hits play. The turn after, you have at the very least +4 mana. So you ramped from 6 to 10, which can be very relevant when you're playing draw spells, fatties, etc. Particularly strong in U/G ramp where you can play Teferi on turn 3-4 and an Eldrazi on turn 4-5.
He's also good in Storm (both +1 ability and -1 ability is great), but I know not many people support Storm.
I like that his untap clause also allows you to give all your guys vigilance. Swing with a bunch of dudes, play Teferi, untap them so they can block.
He also combos with Time Vault (if that's a thing in your cube, which honestly I'm not sure why people aren't playing with it unless they're banning it for power level or fun factor reasons, it's DEFINITELY powerful enough).
Time Vault combos with the following cards now:
Ral Zarek (should be in everyone's cube) Tezzeret the Seeker (in a lot of cubes) Voltaic Key (should only be in your cube if you enjoy giving Time Vault another combo piece, but it does have other applications) Teferi, Temporal Archmage (not an infinite combo, but getting 2-4 free turns is nuts)
That's 4 ways to untap the Vault. Even in a 720, that means you'll have a great shot of putting the combo together.
So yeah, coming from someone that would cube with Teferi at 360 because of all these applications, I think he's sweet. He's like a free spell most of the time once you hit 6 mana.
So far, I'm kind of happy that it looks like the most certain includes are limited to only 1 or 2 decks. While I guess this could easily change as more things get revealed, only needing to get the red and black ones for cube includes will cut down in the number I need to buy drastically. (Only needing to double buy two of them so that I can have them for Cube and commander is MUCH better than having to double buy all of them).
I don't really understand the love for Teferi PW. He's amazingly expensive for what he does, right?
As ColbyCube said, he can actually be super cheap. You can end your turn with a 4 loyality planeswalker that cost you only 0-2 mana. That is a pretty good deal. And if you don't have anything else to cast, you can get card selection and card draw and a 6 loyality planeswalker instead. Which is also not a bad deal, considering that you had nothing better to cast anyway. Overall, he seems good in ramp (where he makes even Ulamog and Kozilek easy to cast), Wildfire (just play that card on the same turn as Teferi) and some control decks.
While this set doesn't seem to have a must-have slam-dunk (so far), it has many interesting cards that seem good enough to at least test them in cube.
Ah, that makes sense. I didn't understand the appeal of Teferi either. I still don't think we will run it (we don't support super ramp or storm or Time Vault), but at least I get now what you plan to do with him.
I don't really understand the love for Teferi PW. He's amazingly expensive for what he does, right?
As ColbyCube said, he can actually be super cheap. You can end your turn with a 4 loyality planeswalker that cost you only 0-2 mana. That is a pretty good deal. And if you don't have anything else to cast, you can get card selection and card draw and a 6 loyality planeswalker instead. Which is also not a bad deal, considering that you had nothing better to cast anyway. Overall, he seems good in ramp (where he makes even Ulamog and Kozilek easy to cast), Wildfire (just play that card on the same turn as Teferi) and some control decks.
While this set doesn't seem to have a must-have slam-dunk (so far), it has many interesting cards that seem good enough to at least test them in cube.
This set is great for larger cubes, one of the reasons i went from 500 to 720 recently. I view my cube as in constant testing mode, so the cards I am including are:
Teferi mostly comes in because he looks great in ramp and still decent in a few other decks. Gotta cast those Eldrazi somehow! (I agree that he would be worse in a cube that doesn't heavily support the ramp deck. Or in a smaller cube.)
Teferi mostly comes in because he looks great in ramp and still decent in a few other decks. Gotta cast those Eldrazi somehow! (I agree that he would be worse in a cube that doesn't heavily support the ramp deck. Or in a smaller cube.)
I heavily support ramp, and I run cards like Wild Growth and Overgrowth, plus all the artifact mana. So i can see him being good in the right deck.
I don't really understand the love for Teferi PW. He's amazingly expensive for what he does, right?
As ColbyCube said, he can actually be super cheap. You can end your turn with a 4 loyality planeswalker that cost you only 0-2 mana.
If you can produce 7+ mana with 4 permanents, he can actually net you mana, which sounds ridiculous, but when people start catching on to Wild Growth, Utopia Sprawl, Fertile Ground, and Overgrowth, (any day now cube managers!) those options look very do-able in U/G ramp.
Also, for the few of you out there that do support storm, this guy is an autoinclude at any cube size. He does awesome things for that deck.
Decided against including feldon after a few cubes of testing with it.
He's very narrow, and in the decks you want him in, he's very good, but he's not insane... Still dies to any removal spell.
Current includes for sure:
Flesh carver
On the fence about, but in for testing:
Hallowed spirit keeper
Malicious affliction
Very skeptical about dualcaster but will consider testing if it gets strong reviews
I don't really understand the love for Teferi PW. He's amazingly expensive for what he does, right?
As ColbyCube said, he can actually be super cheap. You can end your turn with a 4 loyality planeswalker that cost you only 0-2 mana.
If you can produce 7+ mana with 4 permanents, he can actually net you mana, which sounds ridiculous, but when people start catching on to Wild Growth, Utopia Sprawl, Fertile Ground, and Overgrowth, (any day now cube managers!) those options look very do-able in U/G ramp.
Also, for the few of you out there that do support storm, this guy is an autoinclude at any cube size. He does awesome things for that deck.
Cubed tonight a couple cubes with the cards im testing... Decided not to proxy up the hallowed spirit keeper after examining my white section and thinking deeper about it.
Cube 1 played 3 matches with a BWg agro-midrange deck, green mana was for reclamation sage, 2x deathrite shaman and siege rhino. Had malicious affliction. Turned out to be very good for me, but it mostly served as a doomblade heh. Was sometimes hard to trigger the morbid, but it wasn't very relevant.. And my deck wasn't optimized for the card.
One game I triggered the morbid , but was already very ahead on board so it didn't matter too much. Liked the card.
Cube 2 played 2 matches with Gb ramp deck, splashing black only for duress, fleshcarver and abrupt decay.
Flesh carver came out only 1 game, but I was immediatly aware of his power.
If I suspected my opponent was removal light or lacking exile effects I could have turned him into a 6/6 intimidate immediatly.
He ended up getting some intimidate damage in, then finished my opponent off with a 4/4 horror after a wrath.
Small sample, but I think this guy is 360 staple material.
You're probably right, man. I doubt we'll get another high caliber card like that.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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Testing:
Feldon of the Third Path in place of Fulminator Mage
Dualcaster Mage in place of Guttersnipe
Daretti, Scrap Savant in place of Goblin Settler
Flesh Carver in place of Geralf's Messenger
Malicious Affliction in place of Chainer's Edict
Hallowed Spiritkeeper in place of Pianna, Nomad Captain
I will be trying to support Artifacts Matter a bit more deeply now to justify Daretti and Feldon, adding Thirst for Knowledge, Tezz 1.0 and The Abyss back in for testing... gonna wait and see what the next few days bring first.
Check out the Cube Discord channel here
It's 400 unpowered, but I run some unorthodox things for this forum, so my cuts might not be that useful information. I also usually have a list of things haven't been performing well that I plan to cut. So when some new hotness comes out or I find something I like, they just kind of slide right in, even if they don't fill the same role.
If I had to pick one, though, it'd be to replace Reaper from the Abyss. And Flesh Carver for Arrogant Bloodlord.
Anyway, for my 360P:
Flesh Carver (as part of the removal of the Reanimator package requested by my playgroup)
That's it, really.
For my 720U list:
Flesh Carver
Malicious Affliction
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Dualcaster Mage
Feldon of the Third Path
Titania, Protector of Argoth
A Comprehensive list of Cube Archetypes
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I think the main reason is that the 5cc slot for Black is relatively weak (apart from Shriekmaw).
Cards like Bloodgift Demon, Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief, Puppeteer Clique, Gray Merchant of Asphodel, Liliana Vess and Ob Nixilis the Fallen are all *okay* but not really great. In a larger Cube, it's not hard to make room for Ob PW.
A Comprehensive list of Cube Archetypes
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
The standouts that I will probably pick up at some point just to have on deck (singles from this set will probably be pretty reasonable):
Malicious Affliction: Double black is rough, but it has the leveragable upside of cards I want in my cube.
Dualcaster mage: Same as above, and I always wanted a fork effect in cube. Blink just doesn't work as well for this as other etb effects. Why couldn't he be a 3/1, I am desperate for more damage out of my red 3 drops.
Titania, Protector of Argoth: I can't argue with how strong this is, and I might have to start rotation green 5 drops as I do the 7+drops, but the first time I don't have a land in my yard when I cast this it would get cut immediately.
Daretti, Scarp Savant: When I get moxes some day and Goblin welder goes in, so will this guy.
Feldon of the Third Path: I think maybe in a different cube, or if I give up on red tokens this guy might have a home supporting reanimator.
I am really not as big on Flesh Carver. The no mana activation of Xathrid Necromancer and Grim Haruspex makes me think it unlikely this guy will be a hit.
Hallowed Spiritkeeper 1WW
Creature - Avatar
Vigilance
When Hallowed Spiritkeeper dies, put X 1/1 white Spirit tokens with flying onto the battlefield, where X is the number of creature cards in your graveyard
3/2
He seems ok if you get 1 spirit, pretty good if you get 2, and amazing if you get 3 or more. It also plays really, really well with wrath. But, 2 toughness, hard mana cost, and no evasion are all downsides. Seems to me like it would make it in bigger lists though. Anyone else have thoughts?
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
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Obviously with a full yard, the upside is higher here. It's also more resilient to removal, but puts less immediate power on the board. This is also less abusable with blink effects.
Like I said, I think they are pretty close. I'll probably try to run this guy.
I'd like it a lot more if I could bring it back with Reveillark. But I do like it and could see playing it at maybe 540+.
KIND OF.
If you have the ability to produce 6 mana with 4 permanents, (not as hard as you may think with Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, Basalt Monolith, Worn Powerstone, Mana Crypt, Lands that produce 2+ mana, Creatures that produce 2+ mana, etc), he pays for himself the turn you play him. If you can produce 6 mana with 5 permanents, he only costs 1 mana the turn you play him.
You can play him + something else the vast majority of the time he hits play. The turn after, you have at the very least +4 mana. So you ramped from 6 to 10, which can be very relevant when you're playing draw spells, fatties, etc. Particularly strong in U/G ramp where you can play Teferi on turn 3-4 and an Eldrazi on turn 4-5.
He's also good in Storm (both +1 ability and -1 ability is great), but I know not many people support Storm.
I like that his untap clause also allows you to give all your guys vigilance. Swing with a bunch of dudes, play Teferi, untap them so they can block.
He also combos with Time Vault (if that's a thing in your cube, which honestly I'm not sure why people aren't playing with it unless they're banning it for power level or fun factor reasons, it's DEFINITELY powerful enough).
Time Vault combos with the following cards now:
Ral Zarek (should be in everyone's cube)
Tezzeret the Seeker (in a lot of cubes)
Voltaic Key (should only be in your cube if you enjoy giving Time Vault another combo piece, but it does have other applications)
Teferi, Temporal Archmage (not an infinite combo, but getting 2-4 free turns is nuts)
That's 4 ways to untap the Vault. Even in a 720, that means you'll have a great shot of putting the combo together.
So yeah, coming from someone that would cube with Teferi at 360 because of all these applications, I think he's sweet. He's like a free spell most of the time once you hit 6 mana.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
While this set doesn't seem to have a must-have slam-dunk (so far), it has many interesting cards that seem good enough to at least test them in cube.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
This set is great for larger cubes, one of the reasons i went from 500 to 720 recently. I view my cube as in constant testing mode, so the cards I am including are:
Hallowed Spiritkeeper
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Flesh Carver
Malicious Affliction
Dualcaster Mage
Jazal Goldmane
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
I just decided to test Teferi, but I dont have high hopes he will stick.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
I heavily support ramp, and I run cards like Wild Growth and Overgrowth, plus all the artifact mana. So i can see him being good in the right deck.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
If you can produce 7+ mana with 4 permanents, he can actually net you mana, which sounds ridiculous, but when people start catching on to Wild Growth, Utopia Sprawl, Fertile Ground, and Overgrowth, (any day now cube managers!) those options look very do-able in U/G ramp.
Also, for the few of you out there that do support storm, this guy is an autoinclude at any cube size. He does awesome things for that deck.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
He's very narrow, and in the decks you want him in, he's very good, but he's not insane... Still dies to any removal spell.
Current includes for sure:
Flesh carver
On the fence about, but in for testing:
Hallowed spirit keeper
Malicious affliction
Very skeptical about dualcaster but will consider testing if it gets strong reviews
Last Updated 02/07/24
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I hardcast a Kozilek on turn 4 in an unpowered cube with a utopia sprawl, overgrowth, kiora's follower and an Arbor Elf. So being able to untap a permanent is very powerful.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Cube 1 played 3 matches with a BWg agro-midrange deck, green mana was for reclamation sage, 2x deathrite shaman and siege rhino. Had malicious affliction. Turned out to be very good for me, but it mostly served as a doomblade heh. Was sometimes hard to trigger the morbid, but it wasn't very relevant.. And my deck wasn't optimized for the card.
One game I triggered the morbid , but was already very ahead on board so it didn't matter too much. Liked the card.
Cube 2 played 2 matches with Gb ramp deck, splashing black only for duress, fleshcarver and abrupt decay.
Flesh carver came out only 1 game, but I was immediatly aware of his power.
If I suspected my opponent was removal light or lacking exile effects I could have turned him into a 6/6 intimidate immediatly.
He ended up getting some intimidate damage in, then finished my opponent off with a 4/4 horror after a wrath.
Small sample, but I think this guy is 360 staple material.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
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