I push a heavy token theme at 720. I think this guy will find a home there. There are better options in smaller cubes or those that do not push a heavy token theme.
Some data for the defending capabilities of Jazal vs. Sublime Archangel.
They are actually extremely similar in blocking capabilities if you count fliers the archangel trades with and chump blocking huge fliers. If you don't take that into account, Jazal is actually significantly better at defending (he can profitably block over double the amount of guys).
Jazal can profitably block 44 more guys than Sublime Archangel in my cube.
Archangel can profitably block 18 more guys than Jazal, and she can also trade with 13 flyers and can chump 14 others. (45 total)
Here are the guys in my cube he can profitably block that Sublime Archangel cannot:
I didn't count Garruk, Blade Splicer, Ophiomancer, or Hunting Pack tokens. I also didn't count Nissa's ability to make lands into 4/4s.
I also didn't count guys that can "grow", which Jazal also has an advantage with - Tarmogoyf as a 3/4, Vinelasher Kudzu as a 3/3 or 4/4, an Experiment One that has grown to a 3/3 or 4/4, Omnath as a 3/3 or 4/4, Carrion Feeder as a 3/3 or 4/4, Mikaeus as a 3/3 or 4/4, Champion of the Parish as a 3/3 or 4/4, a Psychatog that can only get to a 3/4 (lol corner case), Lotleth Troll as a 3/2, 4/3 or 5/4, -- all of these can be profitably blocked by Jazal.
If we count these guys, that brings the total up to 53, but most of these won't come up that often (Lotleth Troll and Vinelasher Kudzu are the most likely to be in the "profitably blocked by Jazal but not Sublime Archangel" range.
I also didn't count a fully leveled Student of Warfare that Jazal can trade with (I believe it's the only creature in cube that he will be able to trade with that Sublime Archangel can't trade with). On the subject of First Strike, if you have any abilities that give creatures First Strike, Jazal has a defending advantage there too. I'm only playing with Ajani Steadfast and Legion Loyalist. Jazal also blocks/trades with first-strikers that have equipment on them (Thalia, Nekrataal, Vampire Hexmage, Ash Zealot, Ghitu Encampment, Porcelain Legionnaire).
Here are the guys in my cube that Sublime Archangel can profitably block, but Jazal cannot:
EDIT: Sublime Archangel is also better (almost always as a trader/chump blocker) against Elspeth, Knight Errant, Entreat the Angels, and any other thing that gives your creatures flying. It also works well with Moat.
What's particularly interesting is the color pie of the blocking advantages each creature has. Sublime Archangel only has advantages against UBW colors, while Jazal is better at defending against all non-blue colors.
So, if you're worrying about getting attacked by blue or white (although you're probably the white attacking deck), Sublime Angel is superior, but for all other decks, Jazal is better, particularly against Red and Green.
Stuff Sublime Angel dies to that Jazal doesn't in my cube:
After thinking about this more and doing some data research, I think Jazal is at least slightly better than Sublime Archangel.
1) He is a better defender.
2) He is better on offense. If you have two 1/1 creatures out, play Sublime Archangel, swing, then play a Cloudgoat Ranger the turn after with the 3WW you would have spent on Jazal, Jazal will still represent equal or more damage. With more guys or better guys, this actually favors Jazal. His ability is great if you have 3+ attackers (9 additional damage) and legitimately insane if you have 4+ attackers (16 additional damage). It is far easier to alpha strike with Jazal than it is with Sublime Archangel.
3) He is much more resistant to burn.
4) He is also better against instant-speed spot removal. If you attack with all your guys before you pump, your opponent does not have a window to have you make a poor attack. Actually, against red, the Archangel is significantly worse if you decide to attack with it, because it can be responded to with a Lightning Bolt and you will lose the Archangel and the attack step.
One of the other small advantages Jazal has over Sublime Archangel is that Control Magic effects are slightly worse against him, as your opponent has to have double white to activate his ability, but will always get the trigger immediately from Archangel.
The greatest upside the Archangel offers, IMO, is that it has flying, but I don't think that makes up for all the advantages Jazal offers.
I like how this guy can go toe to toe with a lot of mid-range guys, 4/4 strike strike is awesome. Sublime's flying and damage output (relative to cc) plays a number of roles for us though... She can hit PW's fairly reliably, breaks stalemates and lets you be a bit aggressive the turn she comes into play (assuming you have another guy in play), flies over Moats and mid-range fatties that would otherwise halt your attack.
Maybe it's just me, but the card looks underwhelming.
It's not just you. I think there are better options at 540, which is my cube size. I really want to like him, but a big part of me wishes he were green.
I like the Angel more because it does what it does without additional mana requirement. It also lets me sit my creatures back to protect my life total and planeswalkers while my main attacker still gets a huge boost. The angel also evades where Jazal does not, should I choose my angel as the attacker. The angel is also better post-wrath.
Maybe it's just me, but the card looks underwhelming.
It's not just you. I think there are better options at 540, which is my cube size. I really want to like him, but a big part of me wishes he were green.
Wouldn't that make him even worse, because of the even higher competition in green 5cmc?
Actually that is a really good point. I suppose his color isnt the way to fix him.
How has Jazal played out for the people that have tested him?
He's been better than expected here -- he really gums up the ground and your opponent is really afraid of the next turn, which creates a lot of tension. He eats removal about as often as Hero of Bladehold.
He's been very good with 2+ other creatures out, and obviously the more the better.
EDIT: I would definitely run this guy at 540, and I would test him at 450. I don't think he's good enough for 360s, but he has been better than I expected. He's one mana less, which is a big deal, and often represents a larger next turn than Baneslayer Angel. I think he's better than Sublime Archangel, but worse than Baneslayer Angel/Mirror Entity.
Jazal is really good on both offense and defense. I don't get why people focus so much on the activation, which is also a good ability by itself. He's a nice curve topper for the WW decks which doesn't have much to do with 5 mana anyway, so not only is he a nice body but a great mana sink as well.
I've loved him so far at 450. Great body, great ability, fits perfectly into an agro curve and is a great midrange threat. He's been snagged by a couple control players as well and while the ability isn't worth much in that archetype, Jazal is a great defender.
He's in my small pile of cards that might make it in on the next update. I played him an another cube and he quickly ate a Doom Blade so I haven't gotten a chance to see what Jazal can do yet. Perhaps the swift Doom Blade is a good sign of his potency.
Yeah, this guy eats a ton of removal right off the bat. Luckily, the 4 toughness evades most burn, and most of the other removal that kills him is very close to his casting cost, so you're not losing that much tempo when he does eat removal. When he doesn't, he can just end the game the next turn way more often than I originally thought.
Colby, the biggest thing you are missing from your analysis is the hasted effect of sublime archangel and how well she works with the Soltaris/double strike.
that extra few damage the turn she comes into play has a big effect. It can sometimes end the game on the spot, or get value before she dies (wrath, sorcery speed removal).
They are both primarily Agro curve toppers, in a 16 land deck, it could easily take a few turns to get to 5 mana , which is huge for damage output comparison.
I do like how Jazal is a good blocker vs red, so has sideboard utility as control... Quite a bit better in Agro mirrors too.
Imo, they are close enough in power level that the makeup of your cube will define what is better.
Silver blade paladin + Mirian crusader + Soltaris = ++ sublime (high hasted damage output)
Multi color Agro heavy support = ++ Jazal (better in Agro mirrors)
Drafting with less player = ++ Jazal (more versatile)
Heavy token theme = ++ Jazal
Moat + lots of flyers = ++ sublime
Colby, the biggest thing you are missing from your analysis is the hasted effect of sublime archangel and how well she works with the Soltaris.
I covered the initial damage from Sublime Archangel in my previous posts. She does work slightly better with a single shadow creature for the initial damage, but Jazal works slightly better with other cards. Multiple tramplers and large token producers will have a much stronger interaction with Jazal on average. He also works better with multiple shadow or unblockable guys.
If we're talking about single cards the two work with/against, Jazal has a significant edge, since so many more spells kill Sublime Archangel compared to Jazal. While Soltari + Sublime Archangel is a pretty sweet interaction, it's thwarted by tons of red burn that hit the Archangel. In the case of Soltari Priest, the opponent may have a burn spell for it that they normally might have otherwise spent on the actual Soltari, which can be lame.
that extra few damage the turn she comes into play has a big effect. It can sometimes end the game on the spot, or get value before she dies (wrath, sorcery speed removal).
I already went over the numbers (which nearly always give Jazal an edge), but it can also be completely irrelevant -- like if the exalted pump effect doesn't make an attacker large enough to get through the enemy defenses, or if an opponent was going to chump the attacker anyway. There's also the issue of instant speed removal making you lose an entire attack step with the exalted trigger on the stack when it comes to Sublime Archangel, or the instance when just attacking with all your guys will be better / net you more damage than just attacking with a single attacker.
I have rarely seen the Sublime Archangel trigger end the game on the spot, but I have seen lots of games where someone untaps with Jazal and the game is over. Attacking with Jazal + 3 other guys is +16/+16. That's way more ridiculous than an initial +4/+4.
She's also better by herself on an empty board (offensively).
They're the exact same on an empty board, both of them get in for 4 damage. If you're talking about scenarios where the opponent has a bunch of ground guys and you have a single creature -- Jazal or Sublime Archangel, unless the opponent is at 4 or less life, Jazal is almost certainly going to be better in this scenario.
They are both primarily Agro curve toppers, in a 16 land deck, it could easily take a few turns to get to 5 mana , which is huge for damage output comparison.
Both creatures go in more decks than just 16 land aggro decks, and Jazal is particularly good in midrange. Even if you play Jazal over Sublime Archangel in a 16 land deck, and don't hit 5 mana for a few turns - your opponent is going to be sweating that fifth land drop and playing very differently since you now have a 4/4 first striker on defense and the threat of winning the game the next turn.
Imo, they are close enough in power level that the makeup of your cube will define what is better.
In theory they're closer than they are in practice. Having played with both, I think Jazal is better, but not to the point where he's better in every situation. The real advantage of Jazal vs. Sublime Archangel is vs. 3 damage spells/effects. That's far more prevalent in most cubes than Sublime Archangel's interactions with double strikers (which are also good with Jazal), shadow guys (also good with Jazal), or Moat. I think Jazal is better largely because it's far more difficult to get blown out and lose an attack step via instant removal, and he's better as both a defender and a oops-I-just-won card.
While I disagree in theory crafting land, I haven't seen Jazal in action. While you have.
It's close enough in my mind that I'll give him A shot due to your recommendation. Archangel is underrated in my eyes and a great Agro curve topper, but is still expendable.
Nit picking but they aren't exactly the same on an empty board, archangel does 5 damage and is evasive so more likely to get the damage in. If you cast a creature next turn , archangel gets a bonus while Jazal doesn't.
I think it's a bit different in a 720 cube too, since archetypes aren't as tight and the game is less powerful and slower. In my cube, If I'm playing either creature in a non Agro deck I'm not happy. Jazal I'd like in a midrange token deck tho, while sublime I am only happy as an Agro curve topper.
In a good stuff midrange deck they both seem very underwhelming, Jazal less so.
Nit picking but they aren't exactly the same on an empty board, archangel does 5 damage and is evasive so more likely to get the damage in. If you cast a creature next turn , archangel gets a bonus while Jazal doesn't.
Jazzy Goldmane's been solid when I tried him out. Took it out when I did my "official" change but I brought it back soon after. Probably my worst 4 in white but white cards at 4 are dumb.
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Some data for the defending capabilities of Jazal vs. Sublime Archangel.
They are actually extremely similar in blocking capabilities if you count fliers the archangel trades with and chump blocking huge fliers. If you don't take that into account, Jazal is actually significantly better at defending (he can profitably block over double the amount of guys).
Jazal can profitably block 44 more guys than Sublime Archangel in my cube.
Archangel can profitably block 18 more guys than Jazal, and she can also trade with 13 flyers and can chump 14 others. (45 total)
44 total.
I didn't count Garruk, Blade Splicer, Ophiomancer, or Hunting Pack tokens. I also didn't count Nissa's ability to make lands into 4/4s.
I also didn't count guys that can "grow", which Jazal also has an advantage with - Tarmogoyf as a 3/4, Vinelasher Kudzu as a 3/3 or 4/4, an Experiment One that has grown to a 3/3 or 4/4, Omnath as a 3/3 or 4/4, Carrion Feeder as a 3/3 or 4/4, Mikaeus as a 3/3 or 4/4, Champion of the Parish as a 3/3 or 4/4, a Psychatog that can only get to a 3/4 (lol corner case), Lotleth Troll as a 3/2, 4/3 or 5/4, -- all of these can be profitably blocked by Jazal.
If we count these guys, that brings the total up to 53, but most of these won't come up that often (Lotleth Troll and Vinelasher Kudzu are the most likely to be in the "profitably blocked by Jazal but not Sublime Archangel" range.
I also didn't count a fully leveled Student of Warfare that Jazal can trade with (I believe it's the only creature in cube that he will be able to trade with that Sublime Archangel can't trade with). On the subject of First Strike, if you have any abilities that give creatures First Strike, Jazal has a defending advantage there too. I'm only playing with Ajani Steadfast and Legion Loyalist. Jazal also blocks/trades with first-strikers that have equipment on them (Thalia, Nekrataal, Vampire Hexmage, Ash Zealot, Ghitu Encampment, Porcelain Legionnaire).
Here are the guys in my cube that Sublime Archangel can profitably block, but Jazal cannot:
18 total.
I didn't count Bitterblossom tokens, Spectral Procession, or Lingering Souls tokens..
Also, the guys that Sublime Archangel can trade with that Jazal can't:
13 total.
And the guys that Sublime Archangel can chump which Jazal can't:
I didn't count Geist of Saint Traft tokens.
14 total.
EDIT: Sublime Archangel is also better (almost always as a trader/chump blocker) against Elspeth, Knight Errant, Entreat the Angels, and any other thing that gives your creatures flying. It also works well with Moat.
What's particularly interesting is the color pie of the blocking advantages each creature has. Sublime Archangel only has advantages against UBW colors, while Jazal is better at defending against all non-blue colors.
So, if you're worrying about getting attacked by blue or white (although you're probably the white attacking deck), Sublime Angel is superior, but for all other decks, Jazal is better, particularly against Red and Green.
Stuff Sublime Angel dies to that Jazal doesn't in my cube:
1) He is a better defender.
2) He is better on offense. If you have two 1/1 creatures out, play Sublime Archangel, swing, then play a Cloudgoat Ranger the turn after with the 3WW you would have spent on Jazal, Jazal will still represent equal or more damage. With more guys or better guys, this actually favors Jazal. His ability is great if you have 3+ attackers (9 additional damage) and legitimately insane if you have 4+ attackers (16 additional damage). It is far easier to alpha strike with Jazal than it is with Sublime Archangel.
3) He is much more resistant to burn.
4) He is also better against instant-speed spot removal. If you attack with all your guys before you pump, your opponent does not have a window to have you make a poor attack. Actually, against red, the Archangel is significantly worse if you decide to attack with it, because it can be responded to with a Lightning Bolt and you will lose the Archangel and the attack step.
One of the other small advantages Jazal has over Sublime Archangel is that Control Magic effects are slightly worse against him, as your opponent has to have double white to activate his ability, but will always get the trigger immediately from Archangel.
The greatest upside the Archangel offers, IMO, is that it has flying, but I don't think that makes up for all the advantages Jazal offers.
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It's not just you. I think there are better options at 540, which is my cube size. I really want to like him, but a big part of me wishes he were green.
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Actually that is a really good point. I suppose his color isnt the way to fix him.
He's been better than expected here -- he really gums up the ground and your opponent is really afraid of the next turn, which creates a lot of tension. He eats removal about as often as Hero of Bladehold.
He's been very good with 2+ other creatures out, and obviously the more the better.
EDIT: I would definitely run this guy at 540, and I would test him at 450. I don't think he's good enough for 360s, but he has been better than I expected. He's one mana less, which is a big deal, and often represents a larger next turn than Baneslayer Angel. I think he's better than Sublime Archangel, but worse than Baneslayer Angel/Mirror Entity.
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that extra few damage the turn she comes into play has a big effect. It can sometimes end the game on the spot, or get value before she dies (wrath, sorcery speed removal).
They are both primarily Agro curve toppers, in a 16 land deck, it could easily take a few turns to get to 5 mana , which is huge for damage output comparison.
I do like how Jazal is a good blocker vs red, so has sideboard utility as control... Quite a bit better in Agro mirrors too.
Imo, they are close enough in power level that the makeup of your cube will define what is better.
Silver blade paladin + Mirian crusader + Soltaris = ++ sublime (high hasted damage output)
Multi color Agro heavy support = ++ Jazal (better in Agro mirrors)
Drafting with less player = ++ Jazal (more versatile)
Heavy token theme = ++ Jazal
Moat + lots of flyers = ++ sublime
Last Updated 02/07/24
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I covered the initial damage from Sublime Archangel in my previous posts. She does work slightly better with a single shadow creature for the initial damage, but Jazal works slightly better with other cards. Multiple tramplers and large token producers will have a much stronger interaction with Jazal on average. He also works better with multiple shadow or unblockable guys.
If we're talking about single cards the two work with/against, Jazal has a significant edge, since so many more spells kill Sublime Archangel compared to Jazal. While Soltari + Sublime Archangel is a pretty sweet interaction, it's thwarted by tons of red burn that hit the Archangel. In the case of Soltari Priest, the opponent may have a burn spell for it that they normally might have otherwise spent on the actual Soltari, which can be lame.
I already went over the numbers (which nearly always give Jazal an edge), but it can also be completely irrelevant -- like if the exalted pump effect doesn't make an attacker large enough to get through the enemy defenses, or if an opponent was going to chump the attacker anyway. There's also the issue of instant speed removal making you lose an entire attack step with the exalted trigger on the stack when it comes to Sublime Archangel, or the instance when just attacking with all your guys will be better / net you more damage than just attacking with a single attacker.
I have rarely seen the Sublime Archangel trigger end the game on the spot, but I have seen lots of games where someone untaps with Jazal and the game is over. Attacking with Jazal + 3 other guys is +16/+16. That's way more ridiculous than an initial +4/+4.
They're the exact same on an empty board, both of them get in for 4 damage. If you're talking about scenarios where the opponent has a bunch of ground guys and you have a single creature -- Jazal or Sublime Archangel, unless the opponent is at 4 or less life, Jazal is almost certainly going to be better in this scenario.
Both creatures go in more decks than just 16 land aggro decks, and Jazal is particularly good in midrange. Even if you play Jazal over Sublime Archangel in a 16 land deck, and don't hit 5 mana for a few turns - your opponent is going to be sweating that fifth land drop and playing very differently since you now have a 4/4 first striker on defense and the threat of winning the game the next turn.
In theory they're closer than they are in practice. Having played with both, I think Jazal is better, but not to the point where he's better in every situation. The real advantage of Jazal vs. Sublime Archangel is vs. 3 damage spells/effects. That's far more prevalent in most cubes than Sublime Archangel's interactions with double strikers (which are also good with Jazal), shadow guys (also good with Jazal), or Moat. I think Jazal is better largely because it's far more difficult to get blown out and lose an attack step via instant removal, and he's better as both a defender and a oops-I-just-won card.
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It's close enough in my mind that I'll give him A shot due to your recommendation. Archangel is underrated in my eyes and a great Agro curve topper, but is still expendable.
Nit picking but they aren't exactly the same on an empty board, archangel does 5 damage and is evasive so more likely to get the damage in. If you cast a creature next turn , archangel gets a bonus while Jazal doesn't.
I think it's a bit different in a 720 cube too, since archetypes aren't as tight and the game is less powerful and slower. In my cube, If I'm playing either creature in a non Agro deck I'm not happy. Jazal I'd like in a midrange token deck tho, while sublime I am only happy as an Agro curve topper.
In a good stuff midrange deck they both seem very underwhelming, Jazal less so.
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Ahh, you're right. My bad.
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