MTG Salvation

Pretty much what Wtwlf123 said. There are lots of cards that will make my maindeck every single time if I'm playing them. Gore-House Chainwalker I think has one of the highest maindeck percentages in our group, but nobody is picking that guy before he wheels because generally only one drafter wants him.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Just because it has a high maindeck percentage doesn't mean I want to pick it as my #1 overall card in the draft.

But why does it get nearly 100% maindeck percentage? Because it is an absolutely amazing card! Not only does it combine two desirable effects (creature removal and an evasive body) that every deck wants, it is also splashable and flexible (two different casting modes, none of which is overcosted). Sure, it doesn't do anything broken, like most of the other high placing cards do, but it is still top 10 material! Swords to Plowshares got a 6th place in the white list and Lightning Bolt will get a top 10 slot in the red list. Why? Because those cards are the best creature removals in their respective colors. Well, Shriekmaw is the best creature removal in black and it absolutely deserves a high placement, too.

Edit: Just saw that Flametongue Kavu got a first place in 2010! It will certainly place lower this time and red is shallower than black, but black doesn't have as many broken cards as blue and Shriekmaw is better than FTK, so yeah...

Quote from ColbyCube »

Pretty much what Wtwlf123 said. There are lots of cards that will make my maindeck every single time if I'm playing them. Gore-House Chainwalker I think has one of the highest maindeck percentages in our group, but nobody is picking that guy before he wheels because generally only one drafter wants him.

The Gore-House Chainwalker comparison is a total joke. He doesn't come close to a 100% inclusion rating and people certainly won't splash for him. The comment "he wheels because generally only one drafter wants him" says it all. When Shriekmaw is in the draft, half the drafters would want to pick it, so it never wheels.

I 100% Disenchant or Viridian Shaman, but wouldn't first pick them. We're not gauging MD% here. Manamorphose would make my MD 100% of the time, but I think Sarkhan Vol or Kird Ape, who don't make MD 100% of the time, are much more attractive cube cards and certainly better first picks. Shriekmaw is outstanding, but not something I'd take as my first pick before every other card I mentioned in my 20. I can pick up plenty of removal later on in the draft. Universal one mana removal is harder to come by and that led to the high votes for StP and PtE.

Shriekmaw is better than FTK

Irrelevant, but I disagree with that.

Quote from Star Slayer »

But why does it get nearly 100% maindeck percentage?

Because it's a solid and reasonable inclusion for most decks. Just like Evolving Wilds (which pretty much does have 100% maindeck percentage). Doesn't mean I want to pick it up P1P1.

No card received votes from everyone in blue?? As in, some people didn't include Ancestral or Time Walk in their top 20???? Do these people know how to play Magic? Or were they assuming un-powered cube? Either way (them not knowing how to play or assuming un-powered), their rankings should not be weighted equally with all the others. That's mixing apples and oranges. Or apples with rotten apples.

People can vote for whatever they want, IMO. If they don't want to vote for Ancestral, they don't have to.

Yep. Some might even argue it's better for the rankings if some people don't vote for Ancestral since some people really don't like powered cube. It's nice for the rankings to reflect that aspect of the cube community too.

I can understand not voting for Ancestral and Time Walk if people run unpowered cubes. It should be obvious how good they are, but I get it. The one awesome card I don't have (Imperial Seal), I did have a go at placing it where I thought it should be.

I think that's fine criteria for P1P1. Phyrexian Metamorph likely did so well largely because of splashability/remaining-open.

Well, that and the fact that it's ridiculously powerful.

What I found while putting together my black top 20 was that this is a list of about 10-12 cards that I'd actually consider taking P1P1. The rest are really just solid black cards that I might maybe take depending on the rest of the pack. It's hard to come up with 20 cards that I would see at that pick that would put me into that color or I'd at least windmill slam for the potential splash (ahem... Mind Twist). I think cards like Thoughtseize and Hymn do deserve a spot on a top 20 list because they're great cards, but in all honesty, the rest of the pack would have to be pretty mediocre for me to going with a Hymn at P1P1. This is cube, after all.

Most of the bottom half of white and black were quite unlikely P1P1s for us, and it will likely be the same for green and red. Blue is really deep for strong P1P1s and same for colourless.

BLACK voting has now been closed.

RED voting is now OPEN.

Oh man, red is going to look nothing like 2010's edition.

Quote from ColbyCube »

Yep. Some might even argue it's better for the rankings if some people don't vote for Ancestral since some people really don't like powered cube. It's nice for the rankings to reflect that aspect of the cube community too.

Should there be two separate rankings then, one for powered cube and one for unpowered cube? There's merit to players supporting both, but mixing them is mixing apples and oranges. The "average" score computed loses value when mixing the two, especially if the proportion of people voting powered vs unpowered changes for each color (likely, depending on voter participation). You basically have a hidden confounding variable (whether or not the voter prefers unpowered) mixed in the ranking mechanism, and this variable may change between the different rankings...

BLACK Results, Voters and TURF added to Post #2.

Picking twenty P1P1s for red is a real tough reach. It just doesn't have that many great P1P1s, especially seeing as I haven't reinstated Wildfire and BoX yet (FTV will enable that).

Huge agreement, Goodking. I feel like red is definitely a very person-dependent P1P1 color. Beyond Sulfuric Vortex and Goblin Guide, it's all about your preference in how you value the cards, since so many of them are interchangable.

I voted for a lot of red storm cards on the list (I ranked Mana Flare #3 for instance) but because so few cubes support storm, I'm sure a lot of my picks are 'wasted.' That's okay, because maybe the day will come when everyone runs storm and I'll get to say I voted for Mana Flare and Empty the Warrens before everyone else.

There's a huge amount to be said for sticking to your guns, regardless of what other voters think. I think it's cool that you put the storm support on your list, actually. Your cube seems to do a better job supporting storm than any other I've seen, and I can see some of the picks being quite high, although I would still be ultra cautious about the narrow ones myself.

Our red section has a very pronounced tokens/spells matter theme going on and it shows in my top 20 too: Purphoros, Guttersnipe, Young Pyromancer and Empty the Warrens are all there.

Is BoX confirmed for Annihilation?? I had no idea and was <THIS> close to purchasing a BoX about a week ago. Either way, that's good info!
I've been encouraged by the way Red has been drafted and how it's performed the last 4-5 weeks in our Cube. Our White mage has picked Red in his last 2 drafts and again went Red in Sealed Deck last night. Although, it is true that beyond Vortex, Guide and possibly Wildfire/BoX, it's tough to find 18 others that you'd take at P1P1.

I have no problem taking a Wheel of Fortune P1P1. The card's busted.

I'm disappointed I didn't even mention that card. I swung two games into my favor last night with Wheel. My buddy had the nuts with the four cards in his hand (unbeknownst to me) and I was down to one card + Wheel, so I Wheeled and completely changed the game. I drew into my lock down. I think I cast it 3 of the 4 games I played, and in the 3 I cast it, that card just rocked the foundation of the game.

Busted for sure.

Should there be two separate rankings then, one for powered cube and one for unpowered cube? There's merit to players supporting both, but mixing them is mixing apples and oranges. The "average" score computed loses value when mixing the two, especially if the proportion of people voting powered vs unpowered changes for each color (likely, depending on voter participation). You basically have a hidden confounding variable (whether or not the voter prefers unpowered) mixed in the ranking mechanism, and this variable may change between the different rankings...

I don't know about all that. I think it's kinda nice that unpowered and powered cubes both get an equal vote in the polling and everyone's vote is tallied up pound for pound. The data might be slightly less useful for cube managers, but I think there is an argument for the community at large being represented together in a single poll.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

I have no problem taking a Wheel of Fortune P1P1. The card's busted.

Quote from Silent Edge »

I'm disappointed I didn't even mention that card. I swung two games into my favor last night with Wheel. My buddy had the nuts with the four cards in his hand (unbeknownst to me) and I was down to one card + Wheel, so I Wheeled and completely changed the game. I drew into my lock down. I think I cast it 3 of the 4 games I played, and in the 3 I cast it, that card just rocked the foundation of the game.

Busted for sure.

It's even more ridiculous at powered 360, where a lot of times you can go mox+mox+land+wheel turn 1 on the play and essentially ancestral yourself and give the opponent a very disadvantaged hand.

...And I'd still take four cards over it. (Sulfuric Vortex, Goblin Guide, Mana Flare, Empty the Warrens)

I apologize for the delay, I was out all day yesterday.

Having said that...

RED voting is now closed. Results and info to follow shortly...
GREEN voting is now OPEN.