So I'm starting off building my cube, and I tend to see these three cards a lot in lists. I can sort off understand it but I'm wondering if I'm missing something because they don't seem as crazy to me. I can see that upheaval works great with mana rocks, and is a reset button, but wildfire seems to be doing a bad armageddon impression, as it will kill all your small dudes and is 6 mana. Please enlighten me as to the true power and use of these cube cards.
So I'm starting off building my cube, and I tend to see these three cards a lot in lists. I can sort off understand it but I'm wondering if I'm missing something because they don't seem as crazy to me. I can see that upheaval works great with mana rocks, and is a reset button, but wildfire seems to be doing a bad armageddon impression, as it will kill all your small dudes and is 6 mana. Please enlighten me as to the true power and use of these cube cards.
Upheaval + artifact mana is insane. You've pretty much just covered that.
Wildfire is very easy to break the symmetry of. You won't run it where you run Armageddon, rather you will run it in decks with any or all of the following:
-Planeswalkers
-Artifact mana or other forms of ramp
-Creatures with 5+ toughness
In these decks, you aim at ramping yourself beyond your opponent and dropping a threat that will survive the Wildfire, which then lets you use it as a combined, one-sided Wrath/Geddon combo. Basically, you break the symmetry.
Greater Gargadon is a creature that works well with any Geddon, Wildfire, Jokulhaups, or similar effect. It also lets you get bonus value off of any removal your opponents aim your way. Getting 9 hasty power out of nowhere can really swing a game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Greater Gargadon: It's used in the Wildfire deck. Before all of your stuff dies to symmetrical disruption of wildfire or destructive force or death cloud or whatever you sac it all to greater gargadon and get to beat face while your opponent has nothing.
Funny that all your card questions revolve around one archetype. Hope this helps.
Alright thanks, I'm just a bit of cube noob so this was helpful as I had never really played with these cards before and didn't understand all the applications. One last question I have is, have you found running one wildfire enough since the archetype seems to revolve pretty heavily around it, or do you need to supplement it with Burning of Xinye?
The general consensus is that you should run both Wildfire and Burning of Xinye in order to support the wildfire deck. The added consistency is well worth the two red slots in your cube if it's an archetype you're trying to support. I run both.
Kinda off topic, but I'm having the same question about running Pyroclasm. It seems really bad in mono red aggro, but I leave it in for some kind of red control deck, like counterburn maybe? The problem is, I can't remember a single U/R deck being drafted from my cube.
It's a sweet and powerful card, but it just seems like that's the only reason I have it in my cube.
Kinda off topic, but I'm having the same question about running Pyroclasm. It seems really bad in mono red aggro, but I leave it in for some kind of red control deck, like counterburn maybe? The problem is, I can't remember a single U/R deck being drafted from my cube.
It's a sweet and powerful card, but it just seems like that's the only reason I have it in my cube.
After a very quick glimpse at my cube on cubetutor, I counted 64% of my creatures having a toughness of 2 or less (doesn't factor in cards like Lingering Souls or the fact that Phantasmal Image is a clone). When you look at it this way, it's easy to see how effective Pyroclasm can be as an early game Wrath of God for red. When I see it get used in my cube, it's never in an aggro deck. It's for control decks.
I like Pyroclasm in UR counterburn, Wildfire decks, and Grixis control/reanimator. It really shines in those decks as a Wrath of God for 1R.
I don't think of Gargadon as just for Wildfire decks. I run it any deck that isn't fast aggro. You always have extra lands or dying creatures that you can feed to him. Just having him suspended is skill testing for your opponent.
I like Pyroclasm in UR counterburn, Wildfire decks, and Grixis control/reanimator. It really shines in those decks as a Wrath of God for 1R.
I don't think of Gargadon as just for Wildfire decks. I run it any deck that isn't fast aggro. You always have extra lands or dying creatures that you can feed to him. Just having him suspended is skill testing for your opponent.
Cheers,
rant
Absolutely, Gargadon does all kinds of works in other decks. I've even run it in fast aggro... it's not too bad there. As you say, just having him sitting there means a potential 9 damage. You have to play around it then.
Shouldn't these "blob" threads be a thing of the past now that we have the SCD system?
While I see your point, I don't think a thread like this is hurting anyone. Sure it could probably be retitled "[MCD] Wildfire, Gargadon, Upheaval", but there's valuable discussion being had here. If anything it'll just add one more search result for some future cuber searching for "wildfire" threads.
The point is that there don't have to be future Wildfire threads, when there is the Wildfire thread.
When people and especially mods start responding to these threads it kind of legitimizes them and opens the door for all kind of other unstructured discussion, see the part about Pyroclasm above.
Unstructured discussion is part of the fun and can go to interesting places as long as it's not off the rails. You arguably contribute more to unstructured discussion by making the conversation about how we should have the conversation The best solution is either to open a dialogue with the mods or to become a mod yourself. Backseat moderation is more likely to backfire than work
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffUpheaval + artifact mana is insane. You've pretty much just covered that.
Wildfire is very easy to break the symmetry of. You won't run it where you run Armageddon, rather you will run it in decks with any or all of the following:
-Planeswalkers
-Artifact mana or other forms of ramp
-Creatures with 5+ toughness
In these decks, you aim at ramping yourself beyond your opponent and dropping a threat that will survive the Wildfire, which then lets you use it as a combined, one-sided Wrath/Geddon combo. Basically, you break the symmetry.
Greater Gargadon is a creature that works well with any Geddon, Wildfire, Jokulhaups, or similar effect. It also lets you get bonus value off of any removal your opponents aim your way. Getting 9 hasty power out of nowhere can really swing a game.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
This is not at all how the card is played. I think there's a discussion thread that talks specifically about how to use it.
edit: There is one, and it's on the first page of this forum: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/card-and-archetype-discussion/543197-wildfire
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Greater Gargadon: It's used in the Wildfire deck. Before all of your stuff dies to symmetrical disruption of wildfire or destructive force or death cloud or whatever you sac it all to greater gargadon and get to beat face while your opponent has nothing.
Funny that all your card questions revolve around one archetype. Hope this helps.
Visual Spoiler
Draft!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
It's a sweet and powerful card, but it just seems like that's the only reason I have it in my cube.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Visual Spoiler
Draft!
I don't think of Gargadon as just for Wildfire decks. I run it any deck that isn't fast aggro. You always have extra lands or dying creatures that you can feed to him. Just having him suspended is skill testing for your opponent.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Absolutely, Gargadon does all kinds of works in other decks. I've even run it in fast aggro... it's not too bad there. As you say, just having him sitting there means a potential 9 damage. You have to play around it then.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffRed has a lot of great tools for midrange and control decks. It can't support much of one on its own, but as a supplemental color it offers:
-2-3 mana sweepers (Pyroclasm, Slagstorm, Anger of the Gods, etc)
-Split-damage cards like Forked Bolt, Fire//Ice, Flames of the Firebrand, etc that can easily be 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 effects
-Versatile removal (burn can kill both creatures and Planeswalkers and is plentiful)
-Good finishers (Chandras, Koth of the Hammer, Thundermaw Hellkite, Inferno Titan, etc, as well as enabling access to some great 2-color planeswalkers like Ajani Vengeant, Ral Zarek, Dack Fayden, Xenagos the Reveler)
-Wildfire effects
-Hammer of Purphoros and other Fires of Yavimaya effects to power up ramp finishers
-Some great 2-for-1 creatures like Manic Vandal, Fire Imp, Flametongue Kavu, Imperial Recruiter, etc.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Visual Spoiler
Draft!
Unstructured discussion is part of the fun and can go to interesting places as long as it's not off the rails. You arguably contribute more to unstructured discussion by making the conversation about how we should have the conversation
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge