In my green white decks I usually have board presence coming into turn 5. Think of the 4 drops in white and green. This card either solidifies board presence, or digs to later solidify board presence, while both abilities add loyalty. Most of the time loyalty will just be health, the ultimate is fun and all, but I would rather use the other two abilities multiple times. The 2 +1's is what really sold me on ajani 4.0. He comes out with 5 health and does something that helps. His second +1 will rarely miss, and his first +1 can be gamebreaking. A 7/7 llanowar elves after two turns because my opponent only had 4 power on the board when i played ajani? Yes, please.
In my green white decks I usually have board presence coming into turn 5. Think of the 4 drops in white and green. This card either solidifies board presence, or digs to later solidify board presence, while both abilities add loyalty. Most of the time loyalty will just be health, the ultimate is fun and all, but I would rather use the other two abilities multiple times. The 2 +1's is what really sold me on ajani 4.0. He comes out with 5 health and does something that helps. His second +1 will rarely miss, and his first +1 can be gamebreaking. A 7/7 llanowar elves after two turns because my opponent only had 4 power on the board when i played ajani? Yes, please.
I didn't even notice that the first +1 was "distribute". I read it as "put a +1/+1 counter on one, two, or three target creatures". This one is better.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
People are going a little too far saying it is a bad card. As mentioned above this is crazy good post wrath and is in the wrath color. Yes my green decks rarely draft wrath but I am sure someone's cube has bant control players, and this could be sweet in there. For larger cubes I can definitely see this. And if you don't have a super ramp plan I would take this over wake. And township is a fine card but personally I am not even close to cubing with that card.
You aren't just dropping this because you have no threat on turn 5. After this lands you will be hitting threats almost every turn after it. And it is extra nice that you wont have to skip any planeswalkers/rancor you see looking for more creatures.
Bonus points for enabling an almost infinite Kitchen Finks.
5 mana, no immediate board impact. No guaranteed CA (though that second ability SHOULD give you +1 CA most of the time). Mediocre ultimate that takes a long time to get to. First ability requires other board presence to do anything, and will sometimes be worse than an Ajani Goldmane -1.
Someone said they'd underestimated Domri and Elspeth 3. But Domri is 3 mana (and 3 mana walkers are GOOOD), and Elspeth 3 has a huge immediate board impact.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
As far as things to have post-wrath this is one of the better ones.
I don't think it is. I'd rather drop a threat. And there's no shortage of good 5cc threatening cards in green or white.
There isn't a mono-colored 5-drop in either of these two colors that I'd exclude to get this Ajani into my final 40. That's not a good sign for a gold card.
I dont think i will cube this guy, but i do think the +1's are pretty powerful. They help each other. If you have creatures, you've got protection - big ones too. Second +1 isnt guaranteed a hit, but it's likely better than Tez, AoB in a comparably built deck. Really GW doesnt have dedicated sources of CA. It's mostly good guys with upside, which is what GW does. Ajani at least provides a potential source of regularly. I'd say something comparable is Domri, but the CC and ulta are so disparate. Anyways, my point is that the three counters is a lot of counters, and if you sont have guys, you get a cjance to dig for one or a superfriend. This might be the first card to dig for a planeswalker.
How disappointing. I wanted this guy to cost 1GW so bad. Green and white have no shortage of good five drops and he's definitely not going in over Mirari's Wake.
a- if you happen to have seven mana because you have ramp or just drew ajani t7, use vorel's ability and ultimate ajani right away
b- wait till next turn, +1 ajani this turn and use his ultimate next turn
a- if you happen to have seven mana because you have ramp or just drew ajani t7, use vorel's ability and ultimate ajani right away
b- wait till next turn, +1 ajani this turn and use his ultimate next turn
Ok. . . 2 things
What cube runs Vorel?
Reread Vorel. He doesn't work that way.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
He's talking about the cube combo deck that drafts Vorel, Ajani, and Liquidmetal Coating and then assembles the combo perfectly on-curve to gain some life. It's really competitive and most 360 cubes have been adding it. /s
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
The 100 life total thing just screams "it's a trap" to me. I'm not saying its a bad card. It would be awesome to crack this in a pre-release type environment - and I'm sure casuals and kids will love it for the splashiness. I wanted to like this card but I must be getting better at evaluating for my cube because I just see it as a 50.00 foil money sink that will ultimately end up in my on deck binder.
I can see people not having it at lower numbers, but I'm pretty sure at 720 that it will crack my list. Especially since I treat Kitchen Finks as a green card and Dryad Militant as a white card.
It's not top 4, but I can see it squeezing into the top 9 or 10.
It should've given you a True Conviction emblem for the ultimate. It would've had cool synergy with both the + abilities instead of being a random and stupid ultimate—and it just screams Ajani in terms of flavor. In a huge cube that shuffles hybrids away from the guild section it might have a chance to be tested ...but even then I think there's better options out there. This just doesn't do anything that I really need in any of my WG decks, and it doesn't contribute to the success of any particular archetype.
Think the card is better than people are giving it credit for, but it's not optimized for the cube environment.
Against agro, both abilities are too slow and don't help you stabalize at all. AWFUL card.
Against control, he's very powerful, but less than he appears. He encourages you to play the long game with a deck equipped to play the long game. You are going to be playing a lot of threats if this thing lives, but they are better suited to dealing with your threats. Also, their threats trump yours. The elesh norn's and the sundering titans are going to trump the deranged hermits and thragtusks.
You'd rather play a threat that they MUST deal with NOW, at 5 mana, that is not hard to find.
He's definitly strong against control tho, his first ability can apply a LOT of pressure in a variety of board states. And if they aren't drawing well, the second ability will out card advantage them very fast.
Against midrange, he's amazing.
Selesnya is just way too deep for me to consider the card, but I think he falls Just short, not way short.
His first two abilities scream that he should have an amazing ultimate. Reinforcing your board position, reinforcing your hand to reinforce your board position. Doing nothing. If his ult was worth pressuring he would be amazing, as it stands his ult is a "will i die soon if i dont use it?" Otherwise jus use second +1.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
The ultimate strikes me as kinda stupid, but I have to wonder if by gaining so much life that your opponents might simply deck out trying to finish you. I mean, they have to kill you another 5 times over. Actually, since this is Ajani, they should have made it +160 life.
The other abilities, eh. I think in the broadest sense it's worth testing in my 540, but the trouble is figuring out what it replaces in the ultra-stacked Selesnya section.
I played against this card in Cube the other day and I was pleasantly surprised with it. If you have any kind of board presence at all, both its +1 abilities will generate much value, and 5 loyalty makes it so that it's hard to remove this from play, where it will continue to generate value for that player. IMO, that makes it a very good card for Midrange-y decks.
We all know there are a LOT of good G/W cards for cube, but I think this card is actually good enough to at least be considered. I think it may have a spot in medium to large cubes.
I run a 900 card cube and Selesnya is so packed that they only card I would consider cutting for this is Gavony Township. Gavony has the ability to act as a colorless land until you need it but it costs essentially 3GW for it's ability each time. Ajani is more versatile but also easier to get rid of and sits in your hand until you can cast him. Gavony's ability is better but Ajani's ability's are free after you pay his casting cost. Really not sure about this one. I've gone back and forth. I'd love to get someone perspective that has actually played with Ajani.
I played against this card in Cube the other day and I was pleasantly surprised with it. If you have any kind of board presence at all, both its +1 abilities will generate much value, and 5 loyalty makes it so that it's hard to remove this from play, where it will continue to generate value for that player. IMO, that makes it a very good card for Midrange-y decks.
We all know there are a LOT of good G/W cards for cube, but I think this card is actually good enough to at least be considered. I think it may have a spot in medium to large cubes.
To be fair, there are a TON of really good 5cc cards in both white and green that are insane in random midrange decks. I can't see dedicating a gold slot to another card that fits that description when it could be used for something far more useful/important than a redundant playable 5-drop.
To be fair, there are a TON of really good 5cc cards in both white and green that are insane in random midrange decks. I can't see dedicating a gold slot to another card that fits that description when it could be used for something far more useful/important than a redundant playable 5-drop.
I must be missing something, but I couldn't find a TON of "insane" 5-drops in midrange decks - I can only think about Baneslayer Angel, Cloudgoat Ranger, Gideon Jura, Deranged Hermit and Thragtusk. This card doesn't have such an imediate impact as those cards have, but it plays differently than all of those, this is more of a pure value engine that also breaks the midrange mirror in half. I'm not saying it's a staple, I'm not even sure if I will play it in my list, but I think this card is good and deserves some additional testing.
To be fair, there are a TON of really good 5cc cards in both white and green that are insane in random midrange decks. I can't see dedicating a gold slot to another card that fits that description when it could be used for something far more useful/important than a redundant playable 5-drop.
I must be missing something, but I couldn't find a TON of "insane" 5-drops in midrange decks - I can only think about Baneslayer Angel, Cloudgoat Ranger, Gideon Jura, Deranged Hermit and Thragtusk. This card doesn't have such an imediate impact as those cards have, but it plays differently than all of those, this is more of a pure value engine that also breaks the midrange mirror in half. I'm not saying it's a staple, I'm not even sure if I will play it in my list, but I think this card is good and deserves some additional testing.
It's a value engine, but while getting a few +1/+1 counters and then drawing a card a turn is good, waiting until T5/6 before churning out value is a pretty rough proposition when the alternative is playing a mono-colored 5-drop that will likely win you the game.
So not only is the 5cc competition in the mono-colored sections steep, it's in one of the deepest and most powerful guild sections too. And it doesn't contribute to the success of a given strategy or archetype like other options might, or play a particular critical role, like Mirari's Wake or even Sigarda, Host of Herons might, for example.
It's a good card, but I think it's outclassed and unneeded in the cube setting.
It's a value engine, but while getting a few +1/+1 counters and then drawing a card a turn is good, waiting until T5/6 before churning out value is a pretty rough proposition when the alternative is playing a mono-colored 5-drop that will likely win you the game.
My point is: provided you have some kind of board presence, this will likely win you the game too.
It's a good card, but I think it's outclassed and unneeded in the cube setting.
That's the thing: after playing against it, I'm not even sure it's outclassed. As for the unneeded part, I think that's something each Cube owner must decided for him/herself, as Cube settings vary a lot from playgroup to playgroup. Provided a card is good enough (in some sense), I tend to hesitate before calling a card "unneeded".
thats my cube
I didn't even notice that the first +1 was "distribute". I read it as "put a +1/+1 counter on one, two, or three target creatures". This one is better.
You aren't just dropping this because you have no threat on turn 5. After this lands you will be hitting threats almost every turn after it. And it is extra nice that you wont have to skip any planeswalkers/rancor you see looking for more creatures.
Bonus points for enabling an almost infinite Kitchen Finks.
5 mana, no immediate board impact. No guaranteed CA (though that second ability SHOULD give you +1 CA most of the time). Mediocre ultimate that takes a long time to get to. First ability requires other board presence to do anything, and will sometimes be worse than an Ajani Goldmane -1.
Someone said they'd underestimated Domri and Elspeth 3. But Domri is 3 mana (and 3 mana walkers are GOOOD), and Elspeth 3 has a huge immediate board impact.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I don't think it is. I'd rather drop a threat. And there's no shortage of good 5cc threatening cards in green or white.
There isn't a mono-colored 5-drop in either of these two colors that I'd exclude to get this Ajani into my final 40. That's not a good sign for a gold card.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
360 Uncommons only Cube!
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
a- if you happen to have seven mana because you have ramp or just drew ajani t7, use vorel's ability and ultimate ajani right away
b- wait till next turn, +1 ajani this turn and use his ultimate next turn
Ok. . . 2 things
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
The 100 life total thing just screams "it's a trap" to me. I'm not saying its a bad card. It would be awesome to crack this in a pre-release type environment - and I'm sure casuals and kids will love it for the splashiness. I wanted to like this card but I must be getting better at evaluating for my cube because I just see it as a 50.00 foil money sink that will ultimately end up in my on deck binder.
It's not top 4, but I can see it squeezing into the top 9 or 10.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Against agro, both abilities are too slow and don't help you stabalize at all. AWFUL card.
Against control, he's very powerful, but less than he appears. He encourages you to play the long game with a deck equipped to play the long game. You are going to be playing a lot of threats if this thing lives, but they are better suited to dealing with your threats. Also, their threats trump yours. The elesh norn's and the sundering titans are going to trump the deranged hermits and thragtusks.
You'd rather play a threat that they MUST deal with NOW, at 5 mana, that is not hard to find.
He's definitly strong against control tho, his first ability can apply a LOT of pressure in a variety of board states. And if they aren't drawing well, the second ability will out card advantage them very fast.
Against midrange, he's amazing.
Selesnya is just way too deep for me to consider the card, but I think he falls Just short, not way short.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
thats my cube
The other abilities, eh. I think in the broadest sense it's worth testing in my 540, but the trouble is figuring out what it replaces in the ultra-stacked Selesnya section.
We all know there are a LOT of good G/W cards for cube, but I think this card is actually good enough to at least be considered. I think it may have a spot in medium to large cubes.
Former DCI L2 Judge
My old Cube podcast on ManaDeprived, with Goodking and artbcnco: http://manadeprived.com/podcasts/mtgin3d/
You can find me on Twitter as well.
To be fair, there are a TON of really good 5cc cards in both white and green that are insane in random midrange decks. I can't see dedicating a gold slot to another card that fits that description when it could be used for something far more useful/important than a redundant playable 5-drop.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I must be missing something, but I couldn't find a TON of "insane" 5-drops in midrange decks - I can only think about Baneslayer Angel, Cloudgoat Ranger, Gideon Jura, Deranged Hermit and Thragtusk. This card doesn't have such an imediate impact as those cards have, but it plays differently than all of those, this is more of a pure value engine that also breaks the midrange mirror in half. I'm not saying it's a staple, I'm not even sure if I will play it in my list, but I think this card is good and deserves some additional testing.
Former DCI L2 Judge
My old Cube podcast on ManaDeprived, with Goodking and artbcnco: http://manadeprived.com/podcasts/mtgin3d/
You can find me on Twitter as well.
And Reveillark, Garruk, Primal Hunter and Kalonian Hydra in addition to those listed there. And the bigger the list gets, the deeper the number of cards go that fit that description (Vorapede, Wolfir Silverheart, etc). Plus there's Batterskull too.
It's a value engine, but while getting a few +1/+1 counters and then drawing a card a turn is good, waiting until T5/6 before churning out value is a pretty rough proposition when the alternative is playing a mono-colored 5-drop that will likely win you the game.
So not only is the 5cc competition in the mono-colored sections steep, it's in one of the deepest and most powerful guild sections too. And it doesn't contribute to the success of a given strategy or archetype like other options might, or play a particular critical role, like Mirari's Wake or even Sigarda, Host of Herons might, for example.
It's a good card, but I think it's outclassed and unneeded in the cube setting.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My point is: provided you have some kind of board presence, this will likely win you the game too.
That's the thing: after playing against it, I'm not even sure it's outclassed. As for the unneeded part, I think that's something each Cube owner must decided for him/herself, as Cube settings vary a lot from playgroup to playgroup. Provided a card is good enough (in some sense), I tend to hesitate before calling a card "unneeded".
Former DCI L2 Judge
My old Cube podcast on ManaDeprived, with Goodking and artbcnco: http://manadeprived.com/podcasts/mtgin3d/
You can find me on Twitter as well.