I have an Affinity/Metalcraft subtheme for WU in my cube. I do already have Trinket Mage in the cube and I'm debating whether or not I should include artifact lands. I can't imagine them being high picks as most of the time they're just basics that are vulnerable to artifact removal. Does anyone have any experience with them in cube?
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
If artifacts is a theme I don't see why you would not include them. It doesn't have to be the complete cycle, maybe add other monocolored non-basics for the other colors.
It might get a bit broken, but have you guys considered adding artifact lands to your basic land section? That way players can pick themselves into an artifact strategy freely and grab artifact lands they need later (say only 3 of each type, if you're running 5 colours). It's got a clear upside (if you're running an artifact deck) but the lands are still exposed to artifact destruction.
Has anyone had recent success running artifact lands in a non-powered environment? I am currently half committed to the artifact.dec as I run both Tezz's, Welder, fatties, ramp, and Tinker, but don't run Daretti, or Trinket Mage. The addition of Hangerback Walker to my cube has me wondering if I should make space for Trinket Mage, but without Moxen I don't know if he's worth a slot. Lands would definitely help and I feel like they would strongly improve Welder and the Tezz's and make Daretti more viable. I think I'd probably include one of each color except for green, and maybe the indestructible one as well. What do y'all think?
I'm thinking about testing out Great Furnace as I run one land of each color, and that is the main artifact.dec color for me. (and red's lands aren't stellar)
Maybe I'm wrong because your cube is unpowered, but cube's slots are precious and I don't know if I'd really want to commit me by adding those lands to it. They don't bring nothing by themself and need specefic interactions to worth inclusion.
If I can propose you something, I heard some players do bring extra cards to players who draft specific ones. For example, some cube managers give a extra Gracecrawler to player drafting it, same for Squadron Hawk, by gaving then 3 extra ones. Maybe you could find one card that will give a extra artifact land when draft. But this card is definitivly not Tinker though...
Maybe it could be Trinket Mage, depending on how much you think it would be unfair.
Zetsu, I hear what you are saying in that they are very low impact cards on their own and need heavy support to mean anything in a cube draft. I am not as concerned about committing the slots as my cube is currently undergoing a slow migration from 450 to 540, maybe ten or so cards every set, so it's easy for me to add cards in. We also glimpse draft, so it's not a huge deal if there are a few archetype-only cards floating around. I was considering adding just the red land and the indestructible land, but that would kill the mana fixing ability of Trinket mage to pull off-color lands. I'm probably going to start by testing the RUBW lands and the colorless one and remove the ones that don't pull their weight, which may be all of them haha.
I don't want to go down the Squadron Hawk path as I feel it's changing the rules of the game too much for my taste.
It might get a bit broken, but have you guys considered adding artifact lands to your basic land section? That way players can pick themselves into an artifact strategy freely and grab artifact lands they need later (say only 3 of each type, if you're running 5 colours). It's got a clear upside (if you're running an artifact deck) but the lands are still exposed to artifact destruction.
This is what I am doing. But I don't think it works if you have truly degenerate artifact support. If you are running Tolarian Academy, forget about making artifact lands freely available. Even Tinker, I'd be super hesitant if you are running Inkwell Leviathan and friends. It will be too easy to assemble a ridiculous artifact deck.
I have been fully supporting the artifact.dec for a while now in my unpowered cube but it vary rarely comes together due to the difficulty of getting a high enough artifact count because we don't run moxen. I'd considered adding the artifact lands to my cube, but didn't want to commit 5+ slots to such narrow cards. I also didn't want to make the artifact lands freely available in my basic land section as I run Tolarian Academy and that could just get stupid. All that said I have found a good solution that works for my group and has pushed the artifact deck from barely playable to being a solid option.
All I do is keep several of each artifact land available with my basic lands that drafters can freely add to their decks, but ONLY one of each kind. Typically our artifact decks are two colors (red and blue) so if someone is going for the artifact deck they'll grab those two lands, and maybe a third to support a splash or just increase their artifact count. Getting 2-3 extra "free" artifacts makes a big difference for the Tezzs, Welder/Daretti, and Metalworker, but is still consistent with the overall speed and powerlevel of my cube. It also has the added side benefit of making Trinket Mage a playable card, which is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
This may not be a popular choice as it kind of messes with "the rules of the cube", but for us turning on the artifact deck was important enough get creative. Overall we are really happy with it and I'd recommend this method to any unpowered cubers that want the artifact deck to be a viable option.
I have been fully supporting the artifact.dec for a while now in my unpowered cube but it vary rarely comes together due to the difficulty of getting a high enough artifact count because we don't run moxen. I'd considered adding the artifact lands to my cube, but didn't want to commit 5+ slots to such narrow cards. I also didn't want to make the artifact lands freely available in my basic land section as I run Tolarian Academy and that could just get stupid. All that said I have found a good solution that works for my group and has pushed the artifact deck from barely playable to being a solid option.
All I do is keep several of each artifact land available with my basic lands that drafters can freely add to their decks, but ONLY one of each kind. Typically our artifact decks are two colors (red and blue) so if someone is going for the artifact deck they'll grab those two lands, and maybe a third to support a splash or just increase their artifact count. Getting 2-3 extra "free" artifacts makes a big difference for the Tezzs, Welder/Daretti, and Metalworker, but is still consistent with the overall speed and powerlevel of my cube. It also has the added side benefit of making Trinket Mage a playable card, which is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
This may not be a popular choice as it kind of messes with "the rules of the cube", but for us turning on the artifact deck was important enough get creative. Overall we are really happy with it and I'd recommend this method to any unpowered cubers that want the artifact deck to be a viable option.
To hell with the traditional "rules" of cube. A cube is a custom draft format, and keeping things fun and interesting is much better than following arbitrary rules.
The argument against extra rules like this is that the more of these extra rules you have, the more you need to explain to your new drafters every time and the more your players have to think about and remember. If artifact lands in the basic land box is the only quirk though, its probably worth it. I've found that people are usually perfectly fine with extra cube rules in a vacuum but as soon they start to build up, it gets ugly in a hurry. I recommend a utility land draft instead frankly since it opens up a lot more than just artifact lands, makes decks come out more interesting and is already something a ton of cubes have now.
I'm thinking about testing out Great Furnace as I run one land of each color, and that is the main artifact.dec color for me. (and red's lands aren't stellar)
I am also running one land for each color. However, Barbarian Ring sees almost no play, Blighted Gorge isn't efficient enough and none of the other red land options looks good enough either. Since red has become the second strongest artifact color, I am actually considering swapping Ring for Great Furnace. It would be a very narrow card though, only good for one single deck. And even there it offers only a mild advantage that comes with a real risk. Therefore, I am just not sure if this is a great idea...
On the other hand, it might still be worth a try, considering that the alternative sees zero play.
Edit: Huh? For some reason, Barbarian Ring seems to be immune to card tags?
The argument against extra rules like this is that the more of these extra rules you have, the more you need to explain to your new drafters every time and the more your players have to think about and remember. If artifact lands in the basic land box is the only quirk though, its probably worth it. I've found that people are usually perfectly fine with extra cube rules in a vacuum but as soon they start to build up, it gets ugly in a hurry. I recommend a utility land draft instead frankly since it opens up a lot more than just artifact lands, makes decks come out more interesting and is already something a ton of cubes have now.
The argument against extra rules like this is that the more of these extra rules you have, the more you need to explain to your new drafters every time and the more your players have to think about and remember. If artifact lands in the basic land box is the only quirk though, its probably worth it. I've found that people are usually perfectly fine with extra cube rules in a vacuum but as soon they start to build up, it gets ugly in a hurry. I recommend a utility land draft instead frankly since it opens up a lot more than just artifact lands, makes decks come out more interesting and is already something a ton of cubes have now.
I keep cards like that for my 4 card utility land draft. Don't need any quirky rules for that's.
For what it's worth, my cube has been running the affinity theme for a little while with the onset of Origins bringing really powerful two-for-ones in the form of Whirler Rogue, Ghirapur Gearcrafter and Thopter Engineer. I went back and fourth on adding the artifact lands, trying to find the cuts for them and also debating about giving the "affinity player" 1 of each basic land type. Through playtesting I discovered a few things (for my playgroup).
1) Mox Opal and Etched Champion hit metalcraft pretty easily without them. Make no mistake that they will and can whiff but I have seem them reliably enabled with people who have correctly prioritized their drafting to make metalcraft work, so don't think that the artifact lands are absolutely required to turn these cards on. My playgroup was very surprised at how good they actually were - especially Etched Champion who can quickly become an unanswerable threat.
2) Arcbound Ravager is kind-of meh. He's great and I have him in right now because in the deck he's a beast. In drafting the deck, I'd pick something over him unless I was already heavily into the archetype if a solid removal spell or efficient dude was in the pack. Part of Ravager's power was being able to ***** out damage from the artifact lands on top of your already ridiculous board state. Also, I didn't want to give people the option to have as many Seat of the Synod as they so wished, even if it were only 4; Tinker would probably be higher picked than moxen at that point.
3) Affinity and the artifact deck wasn't really wanting to be in white. It takes Swords to Plowshares, Porcelain Legionnaire, Relic Seeker and Stoneforge Mystic (and similar) if presented the opportunity however, Dispatch and Blade Splicer were really the only cards that you could count on seeing during drafts. Really it's blue, red and to a lesser extent black that are the colors to be in.
4) In my cube the artifact/affinity deck can either be a blazing fast aggro deck, a midrangey tempo package using the Tezzerets or a combo Tinker-town festivus. In any one given deck, the artifact lands would have been nice but not necessary.
4) In my cube the artifact/affinity deck can either be a blazing fast aggro deck, a midrangey tempo package using the Tezzerets or a combo Tinker-town festivus. In any one given deck, the artifact lands would have been nice but not necessary.
I see what you are saying, but you are also coming from a powered perspective and therefore have moxen available. If I were in your shoes I don't think I'd need the artifact lands either.
I thought that including an artifact land is a huge risk, since it turns all my opponent's artifact destruction into land destruction. However, it occured to me that the only decks that would run an artifact land are those with a high artifact count, so if my opponent uses their AD effect as an LD spell, then this means that one of my stronger artifacts will be safe. The only cards that are dangerous are those that destroy all or at least multiple artifacts at once. Those are only Pernicious Deed, Powder Keg and - to a lesser extent - the new Fiery Confluence though. And even then, if those are used early to blow up my artifact land plus some smaller artifacts, then my stronger artifacts later will be safe. Conversely, if my artifacts are blown up late, I won't need that one land as much anymore. All in all, vulnerability to artifact destruction seems to be a very minor thing and not a huge drawback as I initially thought.
I've been able to play a few games with the artifact lands freely available and so far it's been working really well. They have been used primarily in the artifact.deck, but also saw play in a random control deck with Trinket Mage and a couple other cheap artifacts. Overall I think my method of allowing one of each type per deck accomplished my goal of boosting the artifact deck to playability in an unpowered list while not overpowering the strategy or warping the cube around a single archetype by committing too many slots. I highly recommend!
I've never played with them, but I think I'd need to have a very artifact focused cube with a healthy presence of metalcraft / artifacts matters in every color for me to consider them.
I've never played with them, but I think I'd need to have a very artifact focused cube with a healthy presence of metalcraft / artifacts matters in every color for me to consider them.
I figured as much. I wasn't very happy with the 8th Dimir land, so I thought about the artifact tap land as an option .
Hi, I would agree with this--I do run all 10x in a (secondary) artifact cube.
However, I would also point out that of all the color pairs that care about artifacts, blue/black is near the top if, not *the* top. (Izzet is maybe #2 but it's a little less natural there because enemy colors red + blue pull in really diff directions w/r/t artifacts.) So, I think if you are running even incidental artifact support in your environment, I'd be willing to wager you probably could find a use for a Dimir artifact land in some games. These lands also make normally-marginal Boom // Bust completely gross!! (Ditto fetch lands, but they're already really good.)
thats my cube
If I can propose you something, I heard some players do bring extra cards to players who draft specific ones. For example, some cube managers give a extra Gracecrawler to player drafting it, same for Squadron Hawk, by gaving then 3 extra ones. Maybe you could find one card that will give a extra artifact land when draft. But this card is definitivly not Tinker though...
Maybe it could be Trinket Mage, depending on how much you think it would be unfair.
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I don't want to go down the Squadron Hawk path as I feel it's changing the rules of the game too much for my taste.
This is what I am doing. But I don't think it works if you have truly degenerate artifact support. If you are running Tolarian Academy, forget about making artifact lands freely available. Even Tinker, I'd be super hesitant if you are running Inkwell Leviathan and friends. It will be too easy to assemble a ridiculous artifact deck.
I have artifact lands available for Covetous Dragon, the new Thopter Spy Network, Tinker (with lower power targets only - Steel Hellkite, Gilded Lotus, etc), and other random synergies (Trading Post, I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of right now but that's the gist).
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
All I do is keep several of each artifact land available with my basic lands that drafters can freely add to their decks, but ONLY one of each kind. Typically our artifact decks are two colors (red and blue) so if someone is going for the artifact deck they'll grab those two lands, and maybe a third to support a splash or just increase their artifact count. Getting 2-3 extra "free" artifacts makes a big difference for the Tezzs, Welder/Daretti, and Metalworker, but is still consistent with the overall speed and powerlevel of my cube. It also has the added side benefit of making Trinket Mage a playable card, which is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
This may not be a popular choice as it kind of messes with "the rules of the cube", but for us turning on the artifact deck was important enough get creative. Overall we are really happy with it and I'd recommend this method to any unpowered cubers that want the artifact deck to be a viable option.
To hell with the traditional "rules" of cube. A cube is a custom draft format, and keeping things fun and interesting is much better than following arbitrary rules.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
On the other hand, it might still be worth a try, considering that the alternative sees zero play.
Edit: Huh? For some reason, Barbarian Ring seems to be immune to card tags?
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
I keep cards like that for my 4 card utility land draft. Don't need any quirky rules for that's.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
1) Mox Opal and Etched Champion hit metalcraft pretty easily without them. Make no mistake that they will and can whiff but I have seem them reliably enabled with people who have correctly prioritized their drafting to make metalcraft work, so don't think that the artifact lands are absolutely required to turn these cards on. My playgroup was very surprised at how good they actually were - especially Etched Champion who can quickly become an unanswerable threat.
2) Arcbound Ravager is kind-of meh. He's great and I have him in right now because in the deck he's a beast. In drafting the deck, I'd pick something over him unless I was already heavily into the archetype if a solid removal spell or efficient dude was in the pack. Part of Ravager's power was being able to ***** out damage from the artifact lands on top of your already ridiculous board state. Also, I didn't want to give people the option to have as many Seat of the Synod as they so wished, even if it were only 4; Tinker would probably be higher picked than moxen at that point.
3) Affinity and the artifact deck wasn't really wanting to be in white. It takes Swords to Plowshares, Porcelain Legionnaire, Relic Seeker and Stoneforge Mystic (and similar) if presented the opportunity however, Dispatch and Blade Splicer were really the only cards that you could count on seeing during drafts. Really it's blue, red and to a lesser extent black that are the colors to be in.
4) In my cube the artifact/affinity deck can either be a blazing fast aggro deck, a midrangey tempo package using the Tezzerets or a combo Tinker-town festivus. In any one given deck, the artifact lands would have been nice but not necessary.
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I see what you are saying, but you are also coming from a powered perspective and therefore have moxen available. If I were in your shoes I don't think I'd need the artifact lands either.
I am going to try Great Furnace in Barbarian Ring's place.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
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I figured as much. I wasn't very happy with the 8th Dimir land, so I thought about the artifact tap land as an option .
However, I would also point out that of all the color pairs that care about artifacts, blue/black is near the top if, not *the* top. (Izzet is maybe #2 but it's a little less natural there because enemy colors red + blue pull in really diff directions w/r/t artifacts.) So, I think if you are running even incidental artifact support in your environment, I'd be willing to wager you probably could find a use for a Dimir artifact land in some games. These lands also make normally-marginal Boom // Bust completely gross!! (Ditto fetch lands, but they're already really good.)
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