How do people feel about personal tutor? It is this kind of deck that keeps that card in for me. Yes it is slow, but decks like wildfire, tinker, and natural order are often sculpted around one sorcery. And even when they have drawn it, a specific second piece may be necessary.
White is probably the color I combine with red the most to create my Wildfire builds. It has the highest concentration of good on-curve 5-toughness creatures for surviving the effect, and it has a bunch of good 'walkers too. Plus, it has Disenchant effects, which are great for removing my opponent's early mana rocks, and Balance, which is a godsend for the deck. Plus, Catastrophe, and the Wraths/Geddons also play quite well. I think it offers a ton.
How do people feel about personal tutor? It is this kind of deck that keeps that card in for me. Yes it is slow, but decks like wildfire, tinker, and natural order are often sculpted around one sorcery. And even when they have drawn it, a specific second piece may be necessary.
Mystical Tutor is pretty good in Wildfire decks, but you can play it during the opponent's end step. Being forced to play it at sorcery speed means that the opponent has a full turn to adapt to the incoming Wildfire effect, which lessens its impact.
White is probably the color I combine with red the most to create my Wildfire builds. It has the highest concentration of good on-curve 5-toughness creatures for surviving the effect, and it has a bunch of good 'walkers too. Plus, it has Disenchant effects, which are great for removing my opponent's early mana rocks, and Balance, which is a godsend for the deck. Plus, Catastrophe, and the Wraths/Geddons also play quite well. I think it offers a ton.
I guess it is personal preference? Wildfire decks in my cube are mostly green (for acceleration, fatties and disenchant naturalize effects) and blue (for soft counters, card draw and bounce).
Most of my Wildfire decks here are Izzet flavored. I think that's because the deck tends to be control and what better color to pair with red in a control deck than blue? I just forced this Boros Wildfire list on my CubeTutor to see how it might look. I'm not overly impressed with this list, but I'd be happy to run it in a few cube matches.
Looks pretty good to me. I would've maindecked the Seal of Cleansing over the Memory Jar because killing opposing mana rocks is key and you can recur it with Sun Titan.
Yeah, you're probably right there. While drafting that I noticed that while white is one of the best colors for planeswalkers, the white 'walkers weren't really something this deck wanted (outside of Ajani V, which I took; and Gideon, which I didn't see).
Hm, Elspeth, Knight-Errant should also work quite well in a Wildfire deck. She can protect herself with tokens until you reach 6 mana, then you Wildfire, then you make a token again. Gideon Jura is probably the best white walker for the deck though, followed by Ajani Vengeant.
We don't want to forget to mention the awesome interaction between Boros Reckoner and Wildfire. It allows you to redirect to opposing planeswalkers, take out their creature that survives the Wildfire or just dome them for four. It's probably one of the cards you'd want to pick up most if you're drafting RW Wildfire.
How do people feel about personal tutor? It is this kind of deck that keeps that card in for me. Yes it is slow, but decks like wildfire, tinker, and natural order are often sculpted around one sorcery. And even when they have drawn it, a specific second piece may be necessary.
I've been thinking about that card a lot, for all the reasons you mentioned. It won't play that much differently from a card like Imperial Seal in a deck that's built around a specific sorcery. It can grab the Wildfires, Upheaval, Balance, Tinker, wraths, reanimation spells and Natural Order. A lot of the powerhouse spells that decks are constructed around are Sorceries, and even though it telegraphs the spell, it might not matter. It also sets up Bonfire and Entreat too. I might test it out. I'm glad you said something because I've been pondering it for awhile, and thought I was the only one.
How do people feel about personal tutor? It is this kind of deck that keeps that card in for me. Yes it is slow, but decks like wildfire, tinker, and natural order are often sculpted around one sorcery. And even when they have drawn it, a specific second piece may be necessary.
I've been thinking about that card a lot, for all the reasons you mentioned. It won't play that much differently from a card like Imperial Seal in a deck that's built around a specific sorcery. It can grab the Wildfires, Upheaval, Balance, Tinker, wraths, reanimation spells and Natural Order. A lot of the powerhouse spells that decks are constructed around are Sorceries, and even though it telegraphs the spell, it might not matter. It also sets up Bonfire and Entreat too. I might test it out. I'm glad you said something because I've been pondering it for awhile, and thought I was the only one.
I found one in a buddy's old junk box he hadn't looked at in years, and he was happy to trade for some standard stuff. Yes it is awkward sometimes but many times (since it is blue) I just pair it with a brainstorm, remand, mulldrifter etc. and get it right away. And let us not forget tutors are stupid good, and this a one mana card. I am about ready to go back to 450, and the archetype that my group has requested mroe support for is combo. P Tutor is great for combo but I feel it may help preserve the consistency of other decks. I don't really want to add more wraths, I can't afford Wildfire or Armageddon #2. Wizards hasn't been stupid enough to print a natural order #2.
On paper is seems bad to drop this on turn 3 to be able to wrath on 4, but if you need the wrath, you get a wrath. The opponent knowing is much better than not having it at all. They are less likely to overextend, but many times I will just drop something like wall of omens after a tutor for a wrath and say 'deal'. This drives the fair decks nuts because they need to really commit or I just sit on the wrath. If they don't I am going to win as the control player.
And don't forget I am playing Bofire and Terminus (Often in the wildfire style decks) and those cards want to be on top of the library anyway.But I am unpowered, people rocking Timewalk and timetwister have even more juice.
I looked at the list of targets, and it's pretty deep. And a lot of them are really absurd; several of which are "build-around" as well. I'm giving it a shot. I suggest playtesting it, so we can compare data.
Last night we ran a small 4-man and I was surprisingly able to piece together a near perfect Wildfire list. I opened Burning of Xinye P1P1, got Thran Dynamo P1P2 and just went all in. I was able to pick up a Thundermaw Hellkite, Wildfire, Mystical Tutor, and a few artifact producers. I thought about wtwlf's advice and picked up a Faerie Conclave as well. Also found that Chimeric Idol is a pretty solid card for this deck. I ended up going 2-1 with the list, losing to a very fast Boros aggro deck (both games I lost were the turn before I could cast a sweeper and stabilize). Here's my list from last night.
I had a few fixing lands as well, but I can't remember that part exactly. It's definitely not a perfect Wildfire deck, but it came pretty close and I'd say it was pretty good for a pool of cards from a four man draft. I'd trade Thassa, Scroll Rack and Koth here for a couple more burn or counter spells and at least one more X/5 creature. The best game I won was against a BG deck with Awakening Zone, Bitterblossom, and Loxodon Warhammer. I kept casting my sweepers and burn spells to keep him off a Warhammer attack. Eventually I was able to Rolling Earthquake him down to five thanks to my artifact mana and his Bitterblossom damage, attack for three with Chimeric Idol, and pass. Bitterblossom put him at 1, but he couldn't do anything to recover and his Bitterblossom killed him next turn. It was a fun match.
So I'm losing faith in my ability to draft Wildfire decks now that I've gone down to 360. I understand the basic tenets of drafting the deck (artifact ramp, toughness >= 5, planeswalkers), but when I usually get around to building the deck post-draft, I end up with four or more 6+ drops. Unless I've got TONS of artifact ramp, it just like a seems bad.
Here's an example (http://cubetutor.com/cubedeck/169172) of a deck I just drafted where it seems better to just play Aetherling and Inferno Titan in place of the two Wildfires. Running all four seems like a bad idea without artifact ramp. I understand this artifact mana is important, I'm just wondering if it really is impossible without such cards.
At this point my cube contains the following artifact ramp:
Could it be that this deck is just impossible without at least some artifact ramp? Is there something I'm missing?
Here's another example deck (http://cubetutor.com/cubedeck/164449) where the wildfires make it FIVE 6+ drops. I included 25 cards. It seems like the wildfires are the most obvious cuts down to 23.
I'd cut Squee, Spear and Guttersnipe and run 18 lands in that last build. And it looks fine to me. You can have more expensive cards in these types of builds, which are loaded with cheap removal and sweepers to keep things going until a little later. I'd find room for Bonfire and/or Earthquake in that deck too.
You could consider adding Coldsteel Heart into the cube to help the deck out a bit. It usually wants a mana rock or 2 to help it get where it's going faster, but they're not 100% necessary when you can load up on Clasm/Quake/Wrath effects and wait it out.
So far, Wildfire has been a great deck for us at 375. So it's definitely doable.
If it is a deck you want around consider worn powerstone and coldsteel heart added to the artifact section. Also look to cards like Ral Zarek and Generator servant to help get you there mana wise in the red section. I also like ember swallower as redundancy and holding the fort until I get my 6 drops going.
@MunchieeZ: You can always try it with green. Play ramp stuff that isn't swept away by collateral damage along with the red Wildfire cards and some rocks and the deck will probably turn out pretty sweet. Something like this: http://cubetutor.com/cubedeck/169215
Around 3-6 6-drops (or higher) are perfectly fine in a Wildfire deck, but a good Wildfire deck should also run 3-6 acceleration cards. Those can be manafacts or green land searchers. Basically, the more ramp you have, the more 6-drops you can run.
Worn Powerstone is a great card for a Wildfire deck. So are Signets/Talismans.
How many mana rocks are needed in 360 to support this archetype? I am running 12 or 13 (powered), but it still seems like the Wildfire player may end up with only one of them.
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At 360, I don't think I'd run more than that. The Wildfire player will just have to learn to grab them higher in the pack. Or build RG Wildfire which doesn't tend to need as many rocks.
This is a bit of a selfish request, but could you guys take a look at my list and tell me if there are more things I could do to push this archetype? These cards seem to go late very often, and I'd prefer not to cut the package.
This is a bit of a selfish request, but could you guys take a look at my list and tell me if there are more things I could do to push this archetype? These cards seem to go late very often, and I'd prefer not to cut the package.
The thing about wildfire is that your players kind of have to want to draft the deck. It kind of looks awkward to new players because they think that it totally destroys anything they could be doing, when in reality you build around it and live through the destruction. Perhaps try to draft the deck yourself?
I guess you could add more planeswalkers, but the missing ones are probably for budget reasons so there's that.
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Wildfire can certainly be a thing in your cube. I just forced it and ended up with this list. http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/260067 Not a terrible build. Like Salmo said, your players need to want to draft it. I'll admit that my players don't play the deck very often, but I love the card so much that I want it in the cube. Maybe you should draft the deck a few times and show them the power of Wildfire.
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Mystical Tutor is pretty good in Wildfire decks, but you can play it during the opponent's end step. Being forced to play it at sorcery speed means that the opponent has a full turn to adapt to the incoming Wildfire effect, which lessens its impact.
I guess it is personal preference? Wildfire decks in my cube are mostly green (for acceleration, fatties and
disenchantnaturalize effects) and blue (for soft counters, card draw and bounce).Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/88814
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Sweet deck, btw. I agree with rantipole on the Memory Jar / Seal of Cleansing swap though.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
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I've been thinking about that card a lot, for all the reasons you mentioned. It won't play that much differently from a card like Imperial Seal in a deck that's built around a specific sorcery. It can grab the Wildfires, Upheaval, Balance, Tinker, wraths, reanimation spells and Natural Order. A lot of the powerhouse spells that decks are constructed around are Sorceries, and even though it telegraphs the spell, it might not matter. It also sets up Bonfire and Entreat too. I might test it out. I'm glad you said something because I've been pondering it for awhile, and thought I was the only one.
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I found one in a buddy's old junk box he hadn't looked at in years, and he was happy to trade for some standard stuff. Yes it is awkward sometimes but many times (since it is blue) I just pair it with a brainstorm, remand, mulldrifter etc. and get it right away. And let us not forget tutors are stupid good, and this a one mana card. I am about ready to go back to 450, and the archetype that my group has requested mroe support for is combo. P Tutor is great for combo but I feel it may help preserve the consistency of other decks. I don't really want to add more wraths, I can't afford Wildfire or Armageddon #2. Wizards hasn't been stupid enough to print a natural order #2.
On paper is seems bad to drop this on turn 3 to be able to wrath on 4, but if you need the wrath, you get a wrath. The opponent knowing is much better than not having it at all. They are less likely to overextend, but many times I will just drop something like wall of omens after a tutor for a wrath and say 'deal'. This drives the fair decks nuts because they need to really commit or I just sit on the wrath. If they don't I am going to win as the control player.
And don't forget I am playing Bofire and Terminus (Often in the wildfire style decks) and those cards want to be on top of the library anyway.But I am unpowered, people rocking Timewalk and timetwister have even more juice.
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1 Wildfire
1 Burning of Xinye
1 Rolling Earthquake
//Manipulation
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Impulse
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Scroll Rack
1 Time Walk
1 Miscalculation
1 Forbid
1 Counterspell
//Burn & Removal
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Magma Jet
1 Ring of Gix
//Finishers
1 Chimeric Idol
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Mox Diamond
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Worn Powerstone
I had a few fixing lands as well, but I can't remember that part exactly. It's definitely not a perfect Wildfire deck, but it came pretty close and I'd say it was pretty good for a pool of cards from a four man draft. I'd trade Thassa, Scroll Rack and Koth here for a couple more burn or counter spells and at least one more X/5 creature. The best game I won was against a BG deck with Awakening Zone, Bitterblossom, and Loxodon Warhammer. I kept casting my sweepers and burn spells to keep him off a Warhammer attack. Eventually I was able to Rolling Earthquake him down to five thanks to my artifact mana and his Bitterblossom damage, attack for three with Chimeric Idol, and pass. Bitterblossom put him at 1, but he couldn't do anything to recover and his Bitterblossom killed him next turn. It was a fun match.
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Here's an example (http://cubetutor.com/cubedeck/169172) of a deck I just drafted where it seems better to just play Aetherling and Inferno Titan in place of the two Wildfires. Running all four seems like a bad idea without artifact ramp. I understand this artifact mana is important, I'm just wondering if it really is impossible without such cards.
At this point my cube contains the following artifact ramp:
Could it be that this deck is just impossible without at least some artifact ramp? Is there something I'm missing?
Here's another example deck (http://cubetutor.com/cubedeck/164449) where the wildfires make it FIVE 6+ drops. I included 25 cards. It seems like the wildfires are the most obvious cuts down to 23.
Visual Spoiler
Draft!
You could consider adding Coldsteel Heart into the cube to help the deck out a bit. It usually wants a mana rock or 2 to help it get where it's going faster, but they're not 100% necessary when you can load up on Clasm/Quake/Wrath effects and wait it out.
So far, Wildfire has been a great deck for us at 375. So it's definitely doable.
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Worn Powerstone is a great card for a Wildfire deck. So are Signets/Talismans.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Cheers,
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The thing about wildfire is that your players kind of have to want to draft the deck. It kind of looks awkward to new players because they think that it totally destroys anything they could be doing, when in reality you build around it and live through the destruction. Perhaps try to draft the deck yourself?
I guess you could add more planeswalkers, but the missing ones are probably for budget reasons so there's that.
Also, if City of Ass is a pet card, then it's a trained lion which speaks english that you can ride which also makes you breakfast in bed every day. City of Ass is incredible.
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Man I love Wildfire decks. More and more becoming my overall favorite cube archetype.
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