Elspeth, Sun's Champion 4WW
Planeswalker - Elsepth Mythic Rare
+1: Put three 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield.
-3: Destroy all creatures with power 4 or greater.
-7: You get an emblem with "Creatures you control get +2/+2 and have flying."
I personally think she cost a little too much mana. But she's probably have room in bigger cube.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion 4WW
Planeswalker - Elsepth Mythic Rare
+1: Put three 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield.
-3: Destroy all creatures with power 4 or greater.
-7: You get an emblem with "Creatures you control get +2/+2 and have flying."
I personally think she cost a little too much mana. But she's probably have room in bigger cube.
Could be good enough, probably won't be. Almost certainly won't be, but I decided to be optimistic for a lot of cards this set.
Six mana is a lot of mana but we certainly aren't opposed to playing expensive planeswalkers. She defends herself VERY well and is a viable solo win-condition. I much prefer her to Garruk, Caller of Beasts or any other 6 mana PW they've ever printed for what its worth.
She's weak to cheap fliers, but that's about it really. She's very good at protecting herself and being a win condition simultaneously. The only real question is how well she fits into the cube meta; weenie decks could prove too overwhelming for her, and she may be too low-impact initially if there are enough ways to kill planeswalkers.
I think she's better than Captain of the Watch because she will keep making tokens. She seems pretty good to me, 540+ most likely. There are better options for control finishers already (Gideon, Sun Titan), but she's pretty good. Starting loyalty = 4 btw.
I don't think you can ask for much more from a six-mana planeswalker honestly. Card seems really, really powerful and I can see myself picking this higher than something like Sun Titan in a lot of decks.
Very good card.
So they have a bunch of big powered tramplers? Boom, not any more.
They have a bunch little guys? make 3 little guys of your ownand put her loyalty up super high.
Can easily win the game by herself if not answered in a few turns.
Unfortunately she costs 6 mana and the competition is very steep at the high CMC costs.
I like elesh norn and sun titan better than her (if not just for power level, but interesting interactions).. So not sure if ill cube, but her power level is very high.
I think the Champion is better than Tirel by a good margin. Swarming the board while ticking UP the loyalty is fairly huge and well worth the extra mana. Her removal ability, while a lot less powerful, can be activated immediately, which is also relevant.
Yeah, this. This is a really good six mana PW and should seal the game if you're winning and retrieve it if you're loading to anything but a Bitterblossom swarm.
6 is a LOT more than 5. I think that Elspeth Tirel will ultimately end up being stronger, and that the creature competition (Sun Titan and Elesh Norn, for example) will keep their spots in most cubes due to more interesting interactions with reanimation/blink strategies.
That being said, Planeswalkers are notoriously hard to judge and this certainly deserves testing, I'm just not generally jumping with joy over non-abusable 6+-drops. Though this one passes the Terminate test with flying colors.
She seems pretty good. Probably no room at 360 for me. There's no room for Tirel, either. I find it somewhat boring that this iteration just has rearranged abilities from her previous selves.
I don't run Tirel at 450. I don't think Sun Champion makes it in either, though I agree she's better than Tirel. 6 mana for a PW is a high barrier. Karn makes it because he has huge board impact, even if he is killed instantly. If he isn't, that's usually game. I don't feel Elspeth's new version is in quite the same league.
She seems pretty good. Probably no room at 360 for me. There's no room for Tirel, either. I find it somewhat boring that this iteration just has rearranged abilities from her previous selves.
Only the first one is a copy, and it'll produce a very different gamestate from when it was on Tirel. I think they are right in doing the planeswalkers this way. They give planeswalkers identity by for example referencing the middle ability of Knight-Errant on Sun's Champion's ultimate. I'm not sure I agree with them that the poster-children of the colors are needed, and should be used as often as they do, but if that's their choice I think they're right in keeping them pretty thematically tight, since that leaves space for other, thematically tight, planeswalkers in the future. This is something I prefer to every planeswalker being free to walk all over the design space of their color(s).
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
It's interesting. For 6 mana it can definitely alter the game. The minus can be a huge boon...same as 3 tokens. My gripe is that I am not sold on this necessarily replacing existing options. I run 2 walkers and she definitely won't touch Elspeth 1. Perhaps a shift in color identity could influence me to run her over Ajani 3cc. Not sold right now. There's also the literal "what can I get at 6 mana" argument. I like Sun Titan over her ATM. No doubt she has the potential to bully. I enjoy that upside. Just hoping she's able to distinguish and warrant inclusion a smaller lists. Could be like the M13 angel who gives exalted -- solid but not a definitive white card. Or Elesh norn -- good of you push a certain philosophy
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
It's the one archtype that I love being able to draft and I love putting things into it to make the whole, Stax thing really come to life and this could be a finisher to that deck to speed up the clock or support it.
Outside of that, it's just a beast of a card, and I love it.
Braids decks aren't typically casting 6cc cards in our metagame.
I think this Elspeth is good but not great. If I were running Tirel, I'd replace her with this one. But I'm not sure she'll make it in at 450. 6 mana is a lot.
How many PWs do people play per color. I play two and might go to 3 at 450, but I feel that is distorting enough. This card does a lot of nice things but at 6+ in white is tough on its own. It can be cheated or reanimated. I think it is a miss for me. Probably 4th or 5th best white PW to me behind Knight Errant, Caller of the Pride, Goldmane at least.
How many PWs do people play per color. I play two and might go to 3 at 450, but I feel that is distorting enough. This card does a lot of nice things but at 6+ in white is tough on its own. It can be cheated or reanimated. I think it is a miss for me. Probably 4th or 5th best white PW to me behind Knight Errant, Caller of the Pride, Goldmane at least.
I play the ones that are good enough and exclude the ones that aren't, just like every other card type. There's not much point just comparing Elspeth 3.0 to Ajani, Caller of the Pride, because the only thing they have in common is a card type. I mean, I wouldn't evaluate Omniscience for cube by considering how it rates compared to Equilbrium or Standstill because they are enchantments. In a vacuum the new PW is worse than the other PWs you mentioned, but that doesn't really influence whether I play her or not. I don't see a requirement to cap the PW numbers.
I think I would test this at 450. Sun Titan, Elesh Norn and this seems like a cool finisher suite.
I play the ones that are good enough and exclude the ones that aren't, just like every other card type. There's not much point just comparing Elspeth 3.0 to Ajani, Caller of the Pride, because the only thing they have in common is a card type. I mean, I wouldn't evaluate Omniscience for cube by considering how it rates compared to Equilbrium or Standstill because they are enchantments. In a vacuum the new PW is worse than the other PWs you mentioned, but that doesn't really influence whether I play her or not. I don't see a requirement to cap the PW numbers.
I think I would test this at 450. Sun Titan, Elesh Norn and this seems like a cool finisher suite.
Totally agreed here. I think she is a beast and will be VERY hard to come back from once its dropped. She takes out w/e finisher they've played, and then starts making a huge army. I can't wait to play with her honestly. 3 tokens is ALOT of virtual card advantage.
When I first looked at the cards I wasnt very impressed, but the more I think about the new Elspeth, the more I like it. I still have Elspeth 2.0 and Angel of Serenity in my cube, which are the slots I see the new Elspeth fighting with.
Sure 6 mana is a lot and 4 toughness isnt, but the abilities work well together and this card can swarm the board, kill all big creatures and can act as a win condition via its ultimate.
Correction - It can act as a win condition via its +1. There's a reason people fear a blinked Cloudgoat Ranger or any other token maker. That many tokens is hard to deal with. I compare this to an Assemble the Legion once its gotten into the "I win the game" mode after a few counters. Then add in a pseudo Wrath attached to it and I don't think there's any way this card is gonna be passed up by me once update day arrives.
This planeswalker is rediculously good in EDH cube.
This planeswalker is really good in a regular cube. I think many are underestimating how powerful she will be. I may test her out over Sun Titan in my 360.
4WW
Planeswalker - Elsepth Mythic Rare
+1: Put three 1/1 white Soldier creature tokens onto the battlefield.
-3: Destroy all creatures with power 4 or greater.
-7: You get an emblem with "Creatures you control get +2/+2 and have flying."
I personally think she cost a little too much mana. But she's probably have room in bigger cube.
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
Could be good enough, probably won't be. Almost certainly won't be, but I decided to be optimistic for a lot of cards this set.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
Cubetutor Link
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
So they have a bunch of big powered tramplers? Boom, not any more.
They have a bunch little guys? make 3 little guys of your ownand put her loyalty up super high.
Can easily win the game by herself if not answered in a few turns.
Unfortunately she costs 6 mana and the competition is very steep at the high CMC costs.
I like elesh norn and sun titan better than her (if not just for power level, but interesting interactions).. So not sure if ill cube, but her power level is very high.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Yeah, this. This is a really good six mana PW and should seal the game if you're winning and retrieve it if you're loading to anything but a Bitterblossom swarm.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
That being said, Planeswalkers are notoriously hard to judge and this certainly deserves testing, I'm just not generally jumping with joy over non-abusable 6+-drops. Though this one passes the Terminate test with flying colors.
Cube list thread
Cubetutor
Only the first one is a copy, and it'll produce a very different gamestate from when it was on Tirel. I think they are right in doing the planeswalkers this way. They give planeswalkers identity by for example referencing the middle ability of Knight-Errant on Sun's Champion's ultimate. I'm not sure I agree with them that the poster-children of the colors are needed, and should be used as often as they do, but if that's their choice I think they're right in keeping them pretty thematically tight, since that leaves space for other, thematically tight, planeswalkers in the future. This is something I prefer to every planeswalker being free to walk all over the design space of their color(s).
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Braids, Cabal Minion.
It's the one archtype that I love being able to draft and I love putting things into it to make the whole, Stax thing really come to life and this could be a finisher to that deck to speed up the clock or support it.
Outside of that, it's just a beast of a card, and I love it.
I think this Elspeth is good but not great. If I were running Tirel, I'd replace her with this one. But I'm not sure she'll make it in at 450. 6 mana is a lot.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I play the ones that are good enough and exclude the ones that aren't, just like every other card type. There's not much point just comparing Elspeth 3.0 to Ajani, Caller of the Pride, because the only thing they have in common is a card type. I mean, I wouldn't evaluate Omniscience for cube by considering how it rates compared to Equilbrium or Standstill because they are enchantments. In a vacuum the new PW is worse than the other PWs you mentioned, but that doesn't really influence whether I play her or not. I don't see a requirement to cap the PW numbers.
I think I would test this at 450. Sun Titan, Elesh Norn and this seems like a cool finisher suite.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
(CubeTutor & MTGS)
360 Peasant Cube!
Custom Cube
RWU Miracles RWU
Correction - It can act as a win condition via its +1. There's a reason people fear a blinked Cloudgoat Ranger or any other token maker. That many tokens is hard to deal with. I compare this to an Assemble the Legion once its gotten into the "I win the game" mode after a few counters. Then add in a pseudo Wrath attached to it and I don't think there's any way this card is gonna be passed up by me once update day arrives.
(CubeTutor & MTGS)
360 Peasant Cube!
Custom Cube
RWU Miracles RWU
This planeswalker is really good in a regular cube. I think many are underestimating how powerful she will be. I may test her out over Sun Titan in my 360.
.02¢
360 Unpowered Cube | Cubetutor