Oh man, the more constructive feedback I get for my cube, the happier I am. So if you (and others!) get around to critiquing my cube I'd love that.
Here are 3 points I try and apply in my cube:
- I'd like to have my 6 drop or higher creatures do something even if they are killed right away.
- I want to avoid double mana colored 2 drops if possible. I feel that if I am not casting them on turn 2 they lose a lot of value as I could replace them with another more expensive card (like a 3 drop).
- No infinite combos. That means no Kiki-Jiki, Reveillark OR Karmic Guide, Staff of Domination, ...
- I can definitely see Knight of the White Orchid as a 3 drop I want to include. However I don't think I will be cutting the Paladin for it. The burst damage it offers for a 3 drop is really nice in my mind (although I could obviously be wrong).
- People commenting on my cube suggested I had too many wraths in the first iterations. This led me to cut down on some, but I sadly haven't been able to test enough to see if this fits my groups play style. If I were to add wraths to white, I would add Elspeth, Sun's Champion (for Elspeth 1.0) and Sunblast Angel (for Requiem Angel) I think.
- I actually like Rootborn Defenses as a way to say nope to wraths and put people on the back foot. Plus it fits nicely in the token theme.
I probably forgot some points, but would love to hear more from anybody about cubing!
Oh don't worry, you won't get "Vigor" suggestions from someone like me.
The most important point that I'd like to stress is that Weathered Wayfarer, Tithe, Gift of Estates and Knight of the White Orchid are all EXTREMELY high White picks and I'm very surprised that you don't have any of them in your Cube. If I'm in White I routinely drafting them 3rd-5th. One thing that you learn very quickly while drafting White in Cube is that you have no good draw spells and no good (1 card) game-enders. Storm Herd is "fine" but it's not an Insurrection, Rite of Replication, Decree of Pain into Rise of the Dark Realms, etc. Mentor of the Meek is obviously playable if he has enough support but 1 total draw engine for an entire color is nothing. Anyways, what this means is that White decks, on average, draw fewer cards and win fewer games than Black/Green/Blue decks. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that White decks routinely play a lot of marginal 1-for-1s like Swords to Plowshares and 2-for-1s like Wrath of God. That might seem like a ridiculously statement but IMO it isn't. Cards like *** and StP don't put you ahead; they merely prevent you from falling too far behind. "Parity" in the context of a color with no card draw and weak game-enders isn't actual parity. You're not a shoe-in to win just because the game goes long. I'm not saying that they're bad cards, you obviously draft and play them, but playing a long, drawn-out game against Blue/Black/Green decks where you draw fewer cards and have weaker win conditions isn't some inherently awesome plan. What it means is that White, as a color, cannot possibly afford to fall behind. I have seen more people win games after eating an Emrakul attack than I've seen White/Red decks win games after failing to produce 4 mana by turn 4. You need to keep pace with the rest of the pack and hit all of your land drops so that you can lean on powerful Battlecruisers like Titans, Angel of Serenity, Elspeth and Mass Calcify to win. That's why I think that White's "ramp" suite is among its strongest picks. As long as those are in your deck you're going to hit your land drops even if means having to cast Gift of Estates as a "Faithless Looting." Is that actively good? Obviously not, but the alternative is even worse. Again, I rarely see White decks miss early land drops and go on to win games. It just doesn't happen.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that White is a bad color, I just think that it has very exploitable weaknesses. When you don't draw cards and none of your removal puts you ahead there's only so much that you can do to win games when your end-game bombs are weaker than those of the other colors'. You have to take your card advantage where you can get it because your StPs/***s are going to put you down cards that you won't easily be able to replace. Your best bet is to surge towards things like Sun Titan and Angel of Serenity to hopefully recoup your losses.
Oh, I'm obviously not suggesting that mono-White is the go-to archetype or anything but when you look at a color in general you have to assess what it offers to you as a player and what its weaknesses are. Clearly you can just play UW or whatever, I'm not suggesting otherwise, but the fact that remains that a Blue/Black (for example) will draw more cards and have stronger 1 card win conditions (on average) than a Blue/White deck. Clearly no one is going to try and brute force mono-White but if the color has no draw and no awesome game-enders you're just naturally going to have fewer than the people playing decks using some combination of the 3 "good" colors.
Thanks for sharing your list! You convinced me with your post about the white mana creatures so I will be adding those 3 (Wayfinder, Knight and Cartographer). I am a little less sold on the mana spells though (especially at 360). I can see Tithe working out since it's an instant and you can use it eot and still have a turn 2, but Gift needs to be used turn 3, making for a very slow start. I will obviously have to test this as I am speaking out of my ass...
I was expecting to see Hero of Bladehold in your list as he can destroy people if left unchecked. Is it because he 1. draws attention 2. Only really fits in an aggro shell ?
Thanks for sharing your list! You convinced me with your post about the white mana creatures so I will be adding those 3 (Wayfinder, Knight and Cartographer). I am a little less sold on the mana spells though (especially at 360). I can see Tithe working out since it's an instant and you can use it eot and still have a turn 2, but Gift needs to be used turn 3, making for a very slow start. I will obviously have to test this as I am speaking out of my ass...
Don't think of Gift of Estates as a 2-3 drop. It's not always supposed to be an "on-curve" card. The reason why it's so powerful is because it's cheap and can be cast alongside another spell on turn 5 or whatever. That's when you'll be struggling to hit your land drops the most and that's also the turn after you've Wrathed or dropped your big defensive 4 drop. You should have a solid 1 turn window to resolve a 2 + 3/4 drop the following turn which is where the card shines. From there you'll easily hit your 7-8+ mana to cast your big finishers.
I was expecting to see Hero of Bladehold in your list as he can destroy people if left unchecked. Is it because he 1. draws attention 2. Only really fits in an aggro shell ?
Stylistic choice. In a 520 card Cube I'd have her but in a 450 card Cube you can't play all of the solid 4 drops. I'm a very passive player who plays in a very passive meta. People like grindy games and draft and play accordingly (I'm not making an absolute statement or anything but it's not like people are looking to build beat-down decks in general). Hero, to me, is a card that must be turned sideways. A 3/4 for 4 is garbage after all. Putting "this creature must attack" on a card doesn't fit my style. I would much rather play the Kor Cartographer that helps me hit my land drops, sits back on D and isn't overly threatening. Besides, the people who Hero will crush on turn 4 are the usually the people having bad games to begin with. I'm not overly concerned about them in the first place because you don't see too many miraculous comebacks in big 7-8 player games. Missed a few early land drops? You're looking at roundabout 1% chance to win. I'm not even exaggerating when I say that I've seen more people win after eating Emrakul attacks lol. I do realize that I have to kill everyone eventually but my style is to strike when it's already too late for the others to react. I don't like making enemies and getting aggressive early on because that frequently leads to M.A.D. (mutually assured destruction) scenarios where players ensure that the other can't possibly go on to win the game. Again, in the context of playing a White deck your removal is marginal, your draw is non-existent and your finishers are "meh." Early setbacks are often crippling which is why I have to tendency to draft defensive, mana-focused decks that keep to myself as much as possible. Good card, just not my style.
Still, hey, we obviously have different styles. Whereas you like to draft Silverblade Paladin and Hero of Bladehold to give people the D I just want to sit back on my Knight of the White Orchid into Kor Cartographer so that I can eventually resolve an Avacyn, Angel of Hope. I am perfectly content to sit on my ass until then because the last thing that I want to do is get in a pissing contest with someone else on turn 3-4 only to find myself crippled for the rest of the game. I'm not saying that your way is wrong or anything, it's just not how I like to approach big 8 player games.
I do want to emphasize that the only reason why I dislike it is that you MUST attack to extract value from her. I'm not saying that I never attack, I just don't want to play cards that MUST be aggressive. Bloodgift Demon can be aggressive or it can sit back on D and draw cards. Scavenging Ooze can get in the Red Zone or it can sit back, disrupt, grow, gain life, etc. I would always prefer to draft flexible cards that support a passive playstyle over ones that force you to be aggressive.
I finally got around to posting it despite my EXTREME laziness. You can find it here.
I don't have anything written-up yet because I'm going to write an article on why every serious playgroup needs to own a Cube even if it's 100% proxied. And by serious I don't mean "competitive" I just mean a group that's serious about Magic and that loves to get together to play the game. It's the best format BY FAR because you don't have to worry about wallet sizes, banned/restricted lists, card availability, player skill... basically anything. JP's girlfriend wants to start playing? Cool! She has to spend exactly 0 dollars to get in on the action as soon as she's ready. Raymond likes the game but doesn't have the cash to buy new decks? No problem! Don't want to have to worry about infinite combos, unfun decks or disproportionately competitive players? You don't have to! Cubing is all of the fun of playing with your friends with none of the awkwardness that comes with trying to get a bunch of people to adhere to some semi-random social contract involving deck prices, power-level, competitiveness and all of that other garbage.
Still, hey, we obviously have different styles. Whereas you like to draft Silverblade Paladin and Hero of Bladehold to give people the D I just want to sit back on my Knight of the White Orchid into Kor Cartographer so that I can eventually resolve an Avacyn, Angel of Hope.
I think this is also due to the nature of the games we play. You have 8+ player games, mine are only 4 players big. So going aggro is a little more realistic, but still probably sub-optimal. But as you say, we enjoy creature beats!
The only ones that I'm immediately sold on are Ugin (the card is a beast), Crux of Fate, Frontier Siege and Mob Rule. The others I'm mostly trying for fun. I've only seen one player play Frontier Siege but I'm immediately sold on it being the de facto 4 drop. That card is absolutely bonkers. The double dipping reminds me of when we still had Carpet of Flowers and the player who had it basically had a Sol Ring that only got better over time. It's obviously not as good, I'm not going to emergency cut it like I did with Carpet, but so far it feels very strong.
What do people think of Whisperwood Elemental? My current suite of 5 drops is:
The card that I'm mostly likely to cut is Acidic Slime. Seedborn Muse is easily the most broken (and it's not even remotely close) and I like the resilience that Thragtusk and Genesis provide. They don't win games but they make it harder for you to lose them. Slime is removal + a blocker but it's not a card that I'm actively happy to draft and maindeck. There are better removal options. Looking for thoughts/opinions on either card.
I run Acidic Slime in mine and none of the others, soooo
I cannot see how Whisperwood will be anything but irritating and a let down so I have zero interest putting it in my cube, but if I were I'd probably drop Seedborn mostly for the reasons that you probably want to keep it in. I cut her a long time ago because she took interesting games and turned them into compost every time she hit the table. Power is cool but when it sacrificed the games I cut cards. Otherwise I'd go with Genesis because I've always hated paying 3 mana before my draw.
I run Acidic Slime in mine and none of the others, soooo
I cannot see how Whisperwood will be anything but irritating and a let down so I have zero interest putting it in my cube, but if I were I'd probably drop Seedborn mostly for the reasons that you probably want to keep it in. I cut her a long time ago because she took interesting games and turned them into compost every time she hit the table. Power is cool but when it sacrificed the games I cut cards. Otherwise I'd go with Genesis because I've always hated paying 3 mana before my draw.
It's possible that I should keep cutting back on Green's power-level. I can only assume that it's the best color in everyone else's Cube too. I've been eyeing Muse + Prophet of Kruphix for awhile now because they usually feel like massive Time Walks that allow the green players to take (seemingly) infinite turns. I've cut back on a lot of their enablers but they're still fairly powerful.
You're probably right that the card is too weak. It just seemed interesting. I suppose that things like Thragtusk aren't played in most Commander Cubes but in MP I like having access to those kinds of cards. Board presence is very important in my experience and resilient, multi-bodies threats are almost always welcome. The lifegain is also very nice and offsets the risk of you losing outright to things like Exsanguinate, Vicious Shadows and Insurrection.
I ran Slime/Muse/Genesis at my 8-player size and I'm pretty sure Thrag is coming in at the expanded size. So I guess Thrag would be my first cut of those, but I have other 5 drops I'd probably cut first.
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I'd rather have Thragtusk than the Elemental and since I probably don't have a room for both I guess he won't be coming in. I actually forgot that I still haven't made room for Titania, Protector of Argoth despite the fact that I really want to try her. My favorite Red deck by far is the Wildfire deck and while she may not be amazing in general she's absurd alongside those kinds of cards. Maybe she's too weak in a format where you can't reliably recur a Fetchland but I'd still like to try her at some point.
I note that a few of the 1vs1 guys are beginning to talk up Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury as being better than expected.
It's probably right on the bubble for my cube - my Rakdos section currently runs Grenzo / Terminate / Olivia / Underworld Cerberus / Kulrath Knight / Lightning Reaver. The Cerberus is the bubble card, and is trying to become Kaervek the Merciless.
Kolaghan will only have three other dragons to play with in my cube (Shivan, Niv and Steel Hellkite... along with Taurean Mauler, obvs), so I'm not totally sold on the idea yet, but my group would likely drop Lightning Reaver for it (which I love, but not many others in my group do... it's approaching personal fanboi status in my cube).
I note that a few of the 1vs1 guys are beginning to talk up Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury as being better than expected.
The prospect of having access to an unlimited number of Lava Axes doesn't appeal to me. I don't want to cast ANY Lava Axes in MP. Casting the card "as is" sucks (it's a 5 drop that doesn't do anything) and Dashing it seems worse so I don't see why you would bother playing the card. I'm obviously biased but any card that virtually has "must attack" written on it is very weak in my books and a "vanilla 4/5 flyer for 5" isn't remotely playable. You can only get maximum value from the card when it attacks which seems very bad to me.
I like Grenzo, Terminate and Olivia but the other cards strike me as being "meh." Sire of Insanity I like a fair amount and Kaervek is decent but I'm starting to think that he needs to get replaced. Rakdos Charm is also sweet since 2 of the modes are solid.
I've been thinking of swapping Sire over Kaervek in my own Cube. What do other people think about the card? I've obviously seen him be good but at the same time I feel like Black/Red doesn't need more lategame. Hell, I might even just axe him for Rakdos Charm.
I like Grenzo, Terminate and Olivia but the other cards strike me as being "meh."
And you'd be dead right. Cerberus is next off the boat, and Reaver is probably a pet card now (it's good, but needs a few swings to really start hurting people). Kulrath Knight gains traction in my cube because it's a flying Knight (and Knight Tribal is somehow a thing in my cube... it had a few really strong wins early on, and my group is hesitant to drop anything that is a Knight for that reason).
If I had to choose, I'd probably bring in Kaervek, Falkenrath Aristocrat and Dreadbore in place of those three (though I'd think hard about Dreadbore... it kind of replicates Terminate to an extent).
I like Grenzo, Terminate and Olivia but the other cards strike me as being "meh."
And you'd be dead right. Cerberus is next off the boat, and Reaver is probably a pet card now (it's good, but needs a few swings to really start hurting people). Kulrath Knight gains traction in my cube because it's a flying Knight (and Knight Tribal is somehow a thing in my cube... it had a few really strong wins early on, and my group is hesitant to drop anything that is a Knight for that reason).
If I had to choose, I'd probably bring in Kaervek, Falkenrath Aristocrat and Dreadbore in place of those three (though I'd think hard about Dreadbore... it kind of replicates Terminate to an extent).
I personally think that Dreadbore is almost unplayable whereas I think that Terminate is the best BR card in the Cube. Obviously that's not saying very much, Rakdos' offerings are pitiful, but I wouldn't advocate making that swap.
Personally I think that playing both Olivia and Aristocrat is pointless because they're similar, unexciting cards. I don't think that Olivia is insane by any means though so I could see myself cutting her for the Aristocrat. My problem with FA is that you need to draft one of Black's recursive threats to make her actively good because otherwise she's marginal. Not really sure on this one either.
I think my biggest problem with Rakdos in general is that I hate the color pairing immensely due to the weak Gold cards. I never look at Grenzo/Terminate/Olivia/Kaervek and want to be Black/Red as a result and even if I'm already in that color combo they're usually not even better than mono-colored alternatives.
What do people think of Whisperwood Elemental? My current suite of 5 drops is:
Looking at your list, if you really want to try out the Elemental, I would cut Relic Crush. In my eyes, he doesn't compare to what you are currently running creature-wise.
Quote from CadaverousBl00m »
I happened into a Cathars' Crusade for my cube, and I have to figure out what the hell to drop to get it in
I agree with Dolono, Celestial Mantle seems like the cut. Triple white mana cost and an aura.
I'd rather have Thragtusk than the Elemental and since I probably don't have a room for both I guess he won't be coming in.
Just went clunk and realised you didn't have Kalonian Hydra mentioned anywhere in your glorious list of green 5-drops. Have you tried him out before and found him wanting? I've been watching the price on the Hydra and wondering whether to pull the trigger or not.
I'd rather have Thragtusk than the Elemental and since I probably don't have a room for both I guess he won't be coming in.
Just went clunk and realised you didn't have Kalonian Hydra mentioned anywhere in your glorious list of green 5-drops. Have you tried him out before and found him wanting? I've been watching the price on the Hydra and wondering whether to pull the trigger or not.
The card is a lot worse in Cube where you can't as easily build around him. He also has "must attack" printed on him because the card just sucks if he's sitting back on D and I generally dislike cards that force my hand. I've only seen people play him but not to much notable success. The Trample is nice (the card would be stone-unplayable without it) but it usually doesn't get more than 1 attack off and unless you Doubling Season out that's typically not accomplishing very much. My Cube probably has more Wraths than an average one though. Again, the main that tips the scales for me is the "must attack" clause. A 4/4 for 5 is absolutely atrocious so whereas a Baneslayer Angel can function on both O and D this card must attack to get any sort of reasonable value.
I don't know about multiplayer cube, but frankly I don't let wraths deter me from including interesting and powerful creatures in my cube. The EDH format's motto should be "Things Die," so if I didn't include cards for fear of wraths, I'd have a much poorer cube on my hands.
I'm not saying that you're wrong, I just don't find your defense very compelling. Most of the creatures that you've listed are bad against removal. If you curve Kresh into Hydra into Archangel of Thune and eat a Wrath you're down 3 cards at no benefit (maybe an attack, whatever). Given that I care way more about the worst-case scenario than the best-case you can't blame me for not being excited to automatically lose a game a reasonable % of the time. Ajanis? I wouldn't even consider drafting them (nor slotting them in my Cube to begin with) and I'd be extremely unhappy to maindeck them. Some of the cards that you listed are fine, don't get me wrong, I just never want to curve out with creatures that are bad against removal and/or bad Planesalkers.
I don't know about multiplayer cube, but frankly I don't let wraths deter me from including interesting and powerful creatures in my cube. The EDH format's motto should be "Things Die," so if I didn't include cards for fear of wraths, I'd have a much poorer cube on my hands.
Except that's not my only problem with the card. I don't like that it costs 5 mana. I don't like that it has "must attack" printed on it (I absolutely refuse to entertain the notion that you can ever be reasonably happy to cast it as a blocker). I don't like that it dies to all removal (even the Sorcery speed stuff like O-Ring and Vindicate). I don't like that it encourages me to over-extend into Wraths (it doesn't force you, but it certainly encourages). I am absolutely fine with playing cards that die to removal. I LOVE Phyrexian Obliterator for example. It also dies to removal but I'll still happily play it. Why? Sure, it dies to removal, but it's also (only) 4 mana, an amazing blocker, single-handidly brick walls any would-be attackers (i.e. I can sit back on 1-2 threats if I want), it's big for its cost, gives Black some "meat" (most of its creatures are relatively small), etc. So please, don't make this all about Wraths. That's only a small part of why I dislike the card.
Here are 3 points I try and apply in my cube:
- I'd like to have my 6 drop or higher creatures do something even if they are killed right away.
- I want to avoid double mana colored 2 drops if possible. I feel that if I am not casting them on turn 2 they lose a lot of value as I could replace them with another more expensive card (like a 3 drop).
- No infinite combos. That means no Kiki-Jiki, Reveillark OR Karmic Guide, Staff of Domination, ...
Onto what you said:
- I can see Rector getting the axe. However, the best targets for him are: Purphoros, God of the Forge, Assemble the Legion, Mirari's Wake, Yawgmoth's Bargain, Dictate of Erebos, Primeval Bounty and others that are included. I think that those targets + the fact he is a big deterrent makes him worthwhile. Regarding Return to Dust, I guess it just comes down to me over evaluating Faith's Fetters.
- I can definitely see Knight of the White Orchid as a 3 drop I want to include. However I don't think I will be cutting the Paladin for it. The burst damage it offers for a 3 drop is really nice in my mind (although I could obviously be wrong).
- Angel of Serenity should be in, no questions. As should Elspeth, Sun's Champion. I just haven't gotten to acquiring them yet.
- People commenting on my cube suggested I had too many wraths in the first iterations. This led me to cut down on some, but I sadly haven't been able to test enough to see if this fits my groups play style. If I were to add wraths to white, I would add Elspeth, Sun's Champion (for Elspeth 1.0) and Sunblast Angel (for Requiem Angel) I think.
- I actually like Rootborn Defenses as a way to say nope to wraths and put people on the back foot. Plus it fits nicely in the token theme.
I probably forgot some points, but would love to hear more from anybody about cubing!
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
The most important point that I'd like to stress is that Weathered Wayfarer, Tithe, Gift of Estates and Knight of the White Orchid are all EXTREMELY high White picks and I'm very surprised that you don't have any of them in your Cube. If I'm in White I routinely drafting them 3rd-5th. One thing that you learn very quickly while drafting White in Cube is that you have no good draw spells and no good (1 card) game-enders. Storm Herd is "fine" but it's not an Insurrection, Rite of Replication, Decree of Pain into Rise of the Dark Realms, etc. Mentor of the Meek is obviously playable if he has enough support but 1 total draw engine for an entire color is nothing. Anyways, what this means is that White decks, on average, draw fewer cards and win fewer games than Black/Green/Blue decks. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that White decks routinely play a lot of marginal 1-for-1s like Swords to Plowshares and 2-for-1s like Wrath of God. That might seem like a ridiculously statement but IMO it isn't. Cards like *** and StP don't put you ahead; they merely prevent you from falling too far behind. "Parity" in the context of a color with no card draw and weak game-enders isn't actual parity. You're not a shoe-in to win just because the game goes long. I'm not saying that they're bad cards, you obviously draft and play them, but playing a long, drawn-out game against Blue/Black/Green decks where you draw fewer cards and have weaker win conditions isn't some inherently awesome plan. What it means is that White, as a color, cannot possibly afford to fall behind. I have seen more people win games after eating an Emrakul attack than I've seen White/Red decks win games after failing to produce 4 mana by turn 4. You need to keep pace with the rest of the pack and hit all of your land drops so that you can lean on powerful Battlecruisers like Titans, Angel of Serenity, Elspeth and Mass Calcify to win. That's why I think that White's "ramp" suite is among its strongest picks. As long as those are in your deck you're going to hit your land drops even if means having to cast Gift of Estates as a "Faithless Looting." Is that actively good? Obviously not, but the alternative is even worse. Again, I rarely see White decks miss early land drops and go on to win games. It just doesn't happen.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that White is a bad color, I just think that it has very exploitable weaknesses. When you don't draw cards and none of your removal puts you ahead there's only so much that you can do to win games when your end-game bombs are weaker than those of the other colors'. You have to take your card advantage where you can get it because your StPs/***s are going to put you down cards that you won't easily be able to replace. Your best bet is to surge towards things like Sun Titan and Angel of Serenity to hopefully recoup your losses.
Oh, I'm obviously not suggesting that mono-White is the go-to archetype or anything but when you look at a color in general you have to assess what it offers to you as a player and what its weaknesses are. Clearly you can just play UW or whatever, I'm not suggesting otherwise, but the fact that remains that a Blue/Black (for example) will draw more cards and have stronger 1 card win conditions (on average) than a Blue/White deck. Clearly no one is going to try and brute force mono-White but if the color has no draw and no awesome game-enders you're just naturally going to have fewer than the people playing decks using some combination of the 3 "good" colors.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Mother of Runes
1 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Serene Master
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Syndic of Tithes
1 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
1 Blade Splicer
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Flickerwisp
1 Hallowed Spiritkeeper
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Mirror Entity
1 Stonecloaker
1 Academy Rector
1 Emeria Angel
1 Kor Cartographer
1 High Sentinels of Arashin
1 Hundred-Handed One
1 Restoration Angel
1 Archon of Justice
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Cloudgoat Ranger
1 Reveillark
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Karmic Guide
1 Sun Titan
1 Soul of Theros
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Luminate Primordial
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tithe
1 Land Tax
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Blind Obedience
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Gift of Estates
1 Balance
1 Martial Coup
1 White Sun's Zenith
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Aura of Silence
1 Return to Dust
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
1 Increasing Devotion
1 Dictate of Heliod
1 Rout
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Austere Command
1 Planar Cleansing
1 Terminus
1 True Conviction
1 Martyr's Bond
1 Mass Calcify
1 Storm Herd
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I was expecting to see Hero of Bladehold in your list as he can destroy people if left unchecked. Is it because he 1. draws attention 2. Only really fits in an aggro shell ?
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
Don't think of Gift of Estates as a 2-3 drop. It's not always supposed to be an "on-curve" card. The reason why it's so powerful is because it's cheap and can be cast alongside another spell on turn 5 or whatever. That's when you'll be struggling to hit your land drops the most and that's also the turn after you've Wrathed or dropped your big defensive 4 drop. You should have a solid 1 turn window to resolve a 2 + 3/4 drop the following turn which is where the card shines. From there you'll easily hit your 7-8+ mana to cast your big finishers.
Stylistic choice. In a 520 card Cube I'd have her but in a 450 card Cube you can't play all of the solid 4 drops. I'm a very passive player who plays in a very passive meta. People like grindy games and draft and play accordingly (I'm not making an absolute statement or anything but it's not like people are looking to build beat-down decks in general). Hero, to me, is a card that must be turned sideways. A 3/4 for 4 is garbage after all. Putting "this creature must attack" on a card doesn't fit my style. I would much rather play the Kor Cartographer that helps me hit my land drops, sits back on D and isn't overly threatening. Besides, the people who Hero will crush on turn 4 are the usually the people having bad games to begin with. I'm not overly concerned about them in the first place because you don't see too many miraculous comebacks in big 7-8 player games. Missed a few early land drops? You're looking at roundabout 1% chance to win. I'm not even exaggerating when I say that I've seen more people win after eating Emrakul attacks lol. I do realize that I have to kill everyone eventually but my style is to strike when it's already too late for the others to react. I don't like making enemies and getting aggressive early on because that frequently leads to M.A.D. (mutually assured destruction) scenarios where players ensure that the other can't possibly go on to win the game. Again, in the context of playing a White deck your removal is marginal, your draw is non-existent and your finishers are "meh." Early setbacks are often crippling which is why I have to tendency to draft defensive, mana-focused decks that keep to myself as much as possible. Good card, just not my style.
Still, hey, we obviously have different styles. Whereas you like to draft Silverblade Paladin and Hero of Bladehold to give people the D I just want to sit back on my Knight of the White Orchid into Kor Cartographer so that I can eventually resolve an Avacyn, Angel of Hope. I am perfectly content to sit on my ass until then because the last thing that I want to do is get in a pissing contest with someone else on turn 3-4 only to find myself crippled for the rest of the game. I'm not saying that your way is wrong or anything, it's just not how I like to approach big 8 player games.
I do want to emphasize that the only reason why I dislike it is that you MUST attack to extract value from her. I'm not saying that I never attack, I just don't want to play cards that MUST be aggressive. Bloodgift Demon can be aggressive or it can sit back on D and draw cards. Scavenging Ooze can get in the Red Zone or it can sit back, disrupt, grow, gain life, etc. I would always prefer to draft flexible cards that support a passive playstyle over ones that force you to be aggressive.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
My 540 card Free-for-All Multiplayer Cube
I don't have anything written-up yet because I'm going to write an article on why every serious playgroup needs to own a Cube even if it's 100% proxied. And by serious I don't mean "competitive" I just mean a group that's serious about Magic and that loves to get together to play the game. It's the best format BY FAR because you don't have to worry about wallet sizes, banned/restricted lists, card availability, player skill... basically anything. JP's girlfriend wants to start playing? Cool! She has to spend exactly 0 dollars to get in on the action as soon as she's ready. Raymond likes the game but doesn't have the cash to buy new decks? No problem! Don't want to have to worry about infinite combos, unfun decks or disproportionately competitive players? You don't have to! Cubing is all of the fun of playing with your friends with none of the awkwardness that comes with trying to get a bunch of people to adhere to some semi-random social contract involving deck prices, power-level, competitiveness and all of that other garbage.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I think this is also due to the nature of the games we play. You have 8+ player games, mine are only 4 players big. So going aggro is a little more realistic, but still probably sub-optimal. But as you say, we enjoy creature beats!
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
1 Crux of Fate
1 Merciless Executioner
1 Palace Siege
1 Frontier Siege
1 Mob Rule
1 Outpost Siege
The only ones that I'm immediately sold on are Ugin (the card is a beast), Crux of Fate, Frontier Siege and Mob Rule. The others I'm mostly trying for fun. I've only seen one player play Frontier Siege but I'm immediately sold on it being the de facto 4 drop. That card is absolutely bonkers. The double dipping reminds me of when we still had Carpet of Flowers and the player who had it basically had a Sol Ring that only got better over time. It's obviously not as good, I'm not going to emergency cut it like I did with Carpet, but so far it feels very strong.
What do people think of Whisperwood Elemental? My current suite of 5 drops is:
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Genesis
1 Thragtusk
The card that I'm mostly likely to cut is Acidic Slime. Seedborn Muse is easily the most broken (and it's not even remotely close) and I like the resilience that Thragtusk and Genesis provide. They don't win games but they make it harder for you to lose them. Slime is removal + a blocker but it's not a card that I'm actively happy to draft and maindeck. There are better removal options. Looking for thoughts/opinions on either card.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I cannot see how Whisperwood will be anything but irritating and a let down so I have zero interest putting it in my cube, but if I were I'd probably drop Seedborn mostly for the reasons that you probably want to keep it in. I cut her a long time ago because she took interesting games and turned them into compost every time she hit the table. Power is cool but when it sacrificed the games I cut cards. Otherwise I'd go with Genesis because I've always hated paying 3 mana before my draw.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
It's possible that I should keep cutting back on Green's power-level. I can only assume that it's the best color in everyone else's Cube too. I've been eyeing Muse + Prophet of Kruphix for awhile now because they usually feel like massive Time Walks that allow the green players to take (seemingly) infinite turns. I've cut back on a lot of their enablers but they're still fairly powerful.
You're probably right that the card is too weak. It just seemed interesting. I suppose that things like Thragtusk aren't played in most Commander Cubes but in MP I like having access to those kinds of cards. Board presence is very important in my experience and resilient, multi-bodies threats are almost always welcome. The lifegain is also very nice and offsets the risk of you losing outright to things like Exsanguinate, Vicious Shadows and Insurrection.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
It's probably right on the bubble for my cube - my Rakdos section currently runs Grenzo / Terminate / Olivia / Underworld Cerberus / Kulrath Knight / Lightning Reaver. The Cerberus is the bubble card, and is trying to become Kaervek the Merciless.
Kolaghan will only have three other dragons to play with in my cube (Shivan, Niv and Steel Hellkite... along with Taurean Mauler, obvs), so I'm not totally sold on the idea yet, but my group would likely drop Lightning Reaver for it (which I love, but not many others in my group do... it's approaching personal fanboi status in my cube).
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The prospect of having access to an unlimited number of Lava Axes doesn't appeal to me. I don't want to cast ANY Lava Axes in MP. Casting the card "as is" sucks (it's a 5 drop that doesn't do anything) and Dashing it seems worse so I don't see why you would bother playing the card. I'm obviously biased but any card that virtually has "must attack" written on it is very weak in my books and a "vanilla 4/5 flyer for 5" isn't remotely playable. You can only get maximum value from the card when it attacks which seems very bad to me.
I like Grenzo, Terminate and Olivia but the other cards strike me as being "meh." Sire of Insanity I like a fair amount and Kaervek is decent but I'm starting to think that he needs to get replaced. Rakdos Charm is also sweet since 2 of the modes are solid.
I've been thinking of swapping Sire over Kaervek in my own Cube. What do other people think about the card? I've obviously seen him be good but at the same time I feel like Black/Red doesn't need more lategame. Hell, I might even just axe him for Rakdos Charm.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
And you'd be dead right. Cerberus is next off the boat, and Reaver is probably a pet card now (it's good, but needs a few swings to really start hurting people). Kulrath Knight gains traction in my cube because it's a flying Knight (and Knight Tribal is somehow a thing in my cube... it had a few really strong wins early on, and my group is hesitant to drop anything that is a Knight for that reason).
If I had to choose, I'd probably bring in Kaervek, Falkenrath Aristocrat and Dreadbore in place of those three (though I'd think hard about Dreadbore... it kind of replicates Terminate to an extent).
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I personally think that Dreadbore is almost unplayable whereas I think that Terminate is the best BR card in the Cube. Obviously that's not saying very much, Rakdos' offerings are pitiful, but I wouldn't advocate making that swap.
Personally I think that playing both Olivia and Aristocrat is pointless because they're similar, unexciting cards. I don't think that Olivia is insane by any means though so I could see myself cutting her for the Aristocrat. My problem with FA is that you need to draft one of Black's recursive threats to make her actively good because otherwise she's marginal. Not really sure on this one either.
I think my biggest problem with Rakdos in general is that I hate the color pairing immensely due to the weak Gold cards. I never look at Grenzo/Terminate/Olivia/Kaervek and want to be Black/Red as a result and even if I'm already in that color combo they're usually not even better than mono-colored alternatives.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Hear, hear. Some day they'll print a dude capable of both handing out damage and resurrecting stuff, and it'll instantly be the Rakdos top pick.
I happened into a Cathars' Crusade for my cube, and I have to figure out what the hell to drop to get it in. I think my pick is Rootborn Defenses. My white non-critter section from CC3 up...
CC3: Crib Swap / Mobilization / O-Ring / Rootborn Defenses
CC4: Ajani Goldmane / Faith's Fetters / Worship / ***
CC5: Miraculous Recovery
CC6+: Austere Command / Celestial Mantle
Right pick?
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"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
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Looking at your list, if you really want to try out the Elemental, I would cut Relic Crush. In my eyes, he doesn't compare to what you are currently running creature-wise.
I agree with Dolono, Celestial Mantle seems like the cut. Triple white mana cost and an aura.
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
Just went clunk and realised you didn't have Kalonian Hydra mentioned anywhere in your glorious list of green 5-drops. Have you tried him out before and found him wanting? I've been watching the price on the Hydra and wondering whether to pull the trigger or not.
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The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The card is a lot worse in Cube where you can't as easily build around him. He also has "must attack" printed on him because the card just sucks if he's sitting back on D and I generally dislike cards that force my hand. I've only seen people play him but not to much notable success. The Trample is nice (the card would be stone-unplayable without it) but it usually doesn't get more than 1 attack off and unless you Doubling Season out that's typically not accomplishing very much. My Cube probably has more Wraths than an average one though. Again, the main that tips the scales for me is the "must attack" clause. A 4/4 for 5 is absolutely atrocious so whereas a Baneslayer Angel can function on both O and D this card must attack to get any sort of reasonable value.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I don't know about multiplayer cube, but frankly I don't let wraths deter me from including interesting and powerful creatures in my cube. The EDH format's motto should be "Things Die," so if I didn't include cards for fear of wraths, I'd have a much poorer cube on my hands.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I'm not saying that you're wrong, I just don't find your defense very compelling. Most of the creatures that you've listed are bad against removal. If you curve Kresh into Hydra into Archangel of Thune and eat a Wrath you're down 3 cards at no benefit (maybe an attack, whatever). Given that I care way more about the worst-case scenario than the best-case you can't blame me for not being excited to automatically lose a game a reasonable % of the time. Ajanis? I wouldn't even consider drafting them (nor slotting them in my Cube to begin with) and I'd be extremely unhappy to maindeck them. Some of the cards that you listed are fine, don't get me wrong, I just never want to curve out with creatures that are bad against removal and/or bad Planesalkers.
Except that's not my only problem with the card. I don't like that it costs 5 mana. I don't like that it has "must attack" printed on it (I absolutely refuse to entertain the notion that you can ever be reasonably happy to cast it as a blocker). I don't like that it dies to all removal (even the Sorcery speed stuff like O-Ring and Vindicate). I don't like that it encourages me to over-extend into Wraths (it doesn't force you, but it certainly encourages). I am absolutely fine with playing cards that die to removal. I LOVE Phyrexian Obliterator for example. It also dies to removal but I'll still happily play it. Why? Sure, it dies to removal, but it's also (only) 4 mana, an amazing blocker, single-handidly brick walls any would-be attackers (i.e. I can sit back on 1-2 threats if I want), it's big for its cost, gives Black some "meat" (most of its creatures are relatively small), etc. So please, don't make this all about Wraths. That's only a small part of why I dislike the card.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold