It's a good analysis, Colby, but there are a few things to note:
1) It's EDH Cube, so decks are more than 50% larger than normal decks. That makes it less likely that you'll see the chosen card in any given game.
2) Since it's EDH Cube, most of the cards under your "Insane" section aren't in the Cube. Of those, I think I only run Demonic Tutor and Time Spiral. That's not to say that there aren't great targets (any other tutor, Tooth and Nail, Bribery, etc), but many of the best in a powered 360 (Storm) cube are absent.
Because of the nature of EDH Cube, the cards that can affect a creature tend to be amazing, as they let you power up your general. I'd rate the 13 Conspiracies, in EDH Cube, like this:
--THE GOOD--
1. Immediate Action - Getting a Kaalia of the Vast swinging the turn it comes down is brutal. Ditto basically any general who lives in the Red Zone or who has a tap-activated ability.
2. Brago's Favor - Again, getting your general out an entire turn early is crazy good. If these two ever make the same player's hands, Kaalia swinging turn 3 with no acceleration is a possibility. Or t3-4 swinging Narset, Enlightened Master with a few mana rocks. Absurdity.
3. Backup Plan - The quality of this doesn't change one bit. Getting a free mulligan that you get to look at before deciding to take it? Sign me up.
4. Power Play - Going first is even better in this format because the first player still draws, and you usually only go first 25% of the time instead of 50%.
5. Unexpected Potential - Depending on your rules on this, this card can be used to either make your deck more consistent color-wise while still allowing you to freely cast a hugely powerful general, or, if like in my case, you allow it to also cheat color identity, it can allow for some truly broken "splashes".
6. Double Stroke - The things above hold true, but it still has a lot of power copying huge haymaker spells
7. Muzio's Perparations - It can pump any voltron-type general, which can make a lot of clocks a turn more lethal. It does silly things with persist creatures. It boosts Ghave, Marath, and other +1/+1 counters guys. Overall very solid.
8. Iterative Analysis - There's a number of good targets for repeated use that make this a value engine, and if there's one thing I love, it's value engines.
--THE BAD--
9. Secrets of Paradise - Unless you run a lot of cheap utility generals like Rhys, the Redeemed, Saffi Eriksdotter, etc, this isn't going to do much for you
10. Sentinel Dispatch - With fewer cheap creatures and less early combat, this speedbump is incredibly minor.
11. Advantageous Proclamation - It's a more minor bonus with the larger decksize, and I don't know if I'd even want to run fewer than the minimum number of cards because there's a high concentration of tutors (allowing for a lot of toolboxes).
--THE UGLY--
12. Worldknit - Because of the more stringent deck construction rules (must be exactly 65 cards + general), this is effectively impossible to run.
13. Secret Summoning - Without any duplicate creatures in the Cube, this does nothing at all, unless you have some reason to want to shuffle your library every time you cast your general.
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For a couple months I've tried to find a way to make mill into reanimation work. 8 of the 10 Dimir cards mill and black is really heavy into recursion. But I can't figure out to make it do anything. If you look at my list, is it that I don't have enough support for an 8 player draft or is something in how I play?
By 'make it work' do you mean the components don't come together during the draft often enough, or that the dedicated mill decks just don't perform very well?
Cubetutor's compare cube function seems to be down at the moment, but maybe run your cube against some of the other edh ones on there and see if there are any omissions in your suite that might make a difference.
Dedicated mill can only work as combo and I've pulled most of that... So no. I just sit there with a Coffin Queen on the table and Necromany in hand and ..... Nothing. I can't fill graveyards fast enough to get any advantage from the archetype.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
As for the method behind commander selection, frankly some of the shards and wedges are so devoid of options, that you just have to run with what wizards has actually produced (such as the new wedge creatures from khans).
For the mono and guild commanders, I mainly included them based on the archetypes I wanted to support with the cube - tokens (sigil captain, trostini's summoner), counters (lorescale coatl), graveyard shenanigans (graverobber spider), ramp (garruk's packleader), voltron (fluxcharger, marisi's twinclaws, ascended lawmage), extort (vizkopa guildmage), control (viral drake, vampire nighthawk, baleful strix), durdle (mistmeadow witch, skyward eye prophets, nucklavee) and pet/want to try (akroan conscriptor, rhox warmonk).
Here's my selection ~ 1 of each mono, 2/guild, 2/shard, 1/wedge, 2 penta-color
For a couple months I've tried to find a way to make mill into reanimation work. 8 of the 10 Dimir cards mill and black is really heavy into recursion. But I can't figure out to make it do anything. If you look at my list, is it that I don't have enough support for an 8 player draft or is something in how I play?
The repeatable effects are probably the ones that shine better for this. I note you haven't got Havengul Lich, and he would probably be my first recommendation - he's in colour for the archetype, sticks Oona, Phenax or Aberration back on the table, and can reanimate from across the table. Very handy and well-loved critter in my cube, and gaining more of a reputation the more we play with him. Usually, the person who drafts Lich and Coffin Queen on the same night has a pretty good night.
Other than that, the only other things I can think of are some of the more expensive reanimation spells. Beacon of Unrest will keep getting shuffled back in. Dread Return or Unburial Rites can be flashed back if they've been milled. But I don't know if that's necessarily what you're chasing. Lich would certainly be the first recommendation, and a high pick for that archetype.
The issue is more that there are never any cards to resurrect
Blech, that's not cool... so not many creatures hitting yards?
How about instants and sorceries? Diluvian Primordial? Wrexial? Guiltfeeder rather enjoys full yards, too.
I don't run any of those either. The thing is I don't want to put too many cards dedicated to mill since it sucks as a strategy unless you go all in. It wasn't that creatures didn't hit the graveyard... NOTHING seemed to. And because if you have reanimator you need graveyard hate, people were keen on using it.
I don't run any of those either. The thing is I don't want to put too many cards dedicated to mill since it sucks as a strategy unless you go all in. It wasn't that creatures didn't hit the graveyard... NOTHING seemed to. And because if you have reanimator you need graveyard hate, people were keen on using it.
Ah, I'm with you now... "It's MILL! Burn it! Kill it with fire!", eh?
The only mill-centric things I am running at the moment are SoBaM, Aberration, Ashiok and Extract from Darkness (as well as, to a lesser extent, Jace Beleren and Jace's Archivist). And this is mostly mill-by-stealth. The Sword and Jace are usually the only things that stay on the table (although the Aberration has had a kicked RoR or Spitting Image aimed at it by other players before, before it died). Still, it kind of sucks if you're spending half your reanimation spells reanimating the very things that are supposed to be enabling the strategy in the first place...
So what's on folks' watch list so far from Commander 2014?
I'm enjoying the new cards' assistance toward establishing a better curve in Red in my edh cube; dualcaster mage, Daretti, and Feldon will all help reduce Red's cuve while at the same time providing interesting effects and potentials for combos. Flamekin Village is a potential inclusion, especially if I cut down on my boros guild and slayers' stronghold.
For green, I will likely include Freyalise as a test case. I love her for the art and nostalgia factor, but I think most of green's already existing planeswalkers are superior.
Commander's Sphere and Myriad Landscape are nice remixes of mind stone and armillary sphere, respectively, but I'm not sure about either's inclusion yet. I could see replacing armillary with landscapes, to up the amount of sac lands available in my cube for Titania, Protector of Argoth. I'm not certain if the density of saclands in my cube is high enough to facilitate her properly.
I'm a little leary of wave of vitriol, due to a general dislike of cosmic reset button cards, but I can see the wave being fun with generals like maelstrom wanderer, since wave gives all the players an opportunity to stabilize afterward.
Are you still considering the cube increase you've mentioned on and off over the years? Looking at Galspanic's newly posted edh cube on cubetutor is really giving me the itch to perform a modest reduction of my own...
Vitriol doesn't really destroy lands though, it just basic-izes them. It's basically a Purify + a From the Ashes. I like that it gets around indestructibility like the gods though.
As far as the size increase goes, one of the things that was holding me back was storage, but I may finally be getting the carrying case I had my eye on, so we'll see. I'm not sure if I'd ever really get 12 people together to draft though.
My two limiting factors at the moment (once I get the carrying case) are:
1) Wedge generals. Even with KtK giving us some good options, I still feel like I could use at least one more in UWR and WRB.
2) Snow lands. I've just barely managed to get enough snow lands for my current size, and I'd have to get 30 more of each to expand.
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Is anyone else's red section going to go through a major revamp after Commander 2014? Feldon and Daretti bring together a few good red cards that were kind of awkward orphans (thinking of specifically Sneak Attack, Faithless Looting, Goblin Welder). There's now enough redundancy to where it might be worth it to consider a handful of more borderline cards like Through the Breach, Trash for Treasure, maybe even Hoarding Dragon to more fully develop a red artifacts theme that plays well with blue artifacts and reanimation strategies.
It definitely allows red to contribute more in a multiplayer format so I'm planning on trying them out at least in my Cube.
Is anyone else's red section going to go through a major revamp after Commander 2014? Feldon and Daretti bring together a few good red cards that were kind of awkward orphans (thinking of specifically Sneak Attack, Faithless Looting, Goblin Welder). There's now enough redundancy to where it might be worth it to consider a handful of more borderline cards like Through the Breach, Trash for Treasure, maybe even Hoarding Dragon to more fully develop a red artifacts theme that plays well with blue artifacts and reanimation strategies.
It definitely allows red to contribute more in a multiplayer format so I'm planning on trying them out at least in my Cube.
Trash for Treasure and Through the Breach seem a bit expensive for one-shot effects so I have never really tried them out. If you do, let me know how it goes.
I'm seeing a lot of stuff that I want to add, but can't really think of what to remove for any of these cards.
Myriad Landscape will replace Terramorphic Expanse or Evolving Wilds.
Wake the Dead will replace Profane Command.
Jazal Goldmane will replace Windborn Muse
Reef Worm takes out Shapesharer
Feldon of the Third Path removes Knollspine Dragon
Masterwork of Ingenuity bumps Tormod's Crypt.
Flamekin Village is one I want, but the only card it can replace is Kher Keep... tough call.
Commander's Sphere and Unstable Obelisk seem good, but I don't see anything to take out for them. I already have too many mana rocks.
Man, those are excellent precons wizards released for Comm 2014! Anybody on the fence about building a multiplayer/edh cube could do a lot worse than just buying and sleeving up that set of 5 (plus adding some guild/shard/wedge generals from the recent expansions)!
Man, those are excellent precons wizards released for Comm 2014! Anybody on the fence about building a multiplayer/edh cube could do a lot worse than just buying and sleeving up that set of 5 (plus adding some guild/shard/wedge generals from the recent expansions)!
I agree. The level of cards in these in general is much higher, while none of the new cards go "hah, sucks to be playing old stuff", which is fine to me.
And I think a list with all five decks would probably share a good 30-40% of my cube, which is really quite stellar.
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Yeah, and it's not like we aren't going to get hit with this stuff too. I was planning on getting a Chaos Orb with a bunch of credit I have, but think I will be just getting all the crap from this set instead.
New bordered:
Decree of Justice
Exclude (x4 for Pauper)
Goblin Welder
Priest of Titania (4x for Pauper)
Crystal Vein (Yeah, non foil!)
New Cards:
All 5 Walkers
Containment Priest
Hallowed Spiritkeeper
Jazal Goldmane
Masterwork of Ingenuity
Commander's Sphere
Assault Suit
Comeuppance
Fell the Mighty
Arcane Lighthouse
Reef Worm
Unstable Obelisk
Well of Ideas
Myriad Landscape
Spoils of Blood
Wake the Dead
Dualcaster Mage
Feldon of the Third Path
Impact Resonance
Scrap Mastery
Flamekin Village
Titania, Protector of Argoth
1) It's EDH Cube, so decks are more than 50% larger than normal decks. That makes it less likely that you'll see the chosen card in any given game.
2) Since it's EDH Cube, most of the cards under your "Insane" section aren't in the Cube. Of those, I think I only run Demonic Tutor and Time Spiral. That's not to say that there aren't great targets (any other tutor, Tooth and Nail, Bribery, etc), but many of the best in a powered 360 (Storm) cube are absent.
Because of the nature of EDH Cube, the cards that can affect a creature tend to be amazing, as they let you power up your general. I'd rate the 13 Conspiracies, in EDH Cube, like this:
--THE GOOD--
1. Immediate Action - Getting a Kaalia of the Vast swinging the turn it comes down is brutal. Ditto basically any general who lives in the Red Zone or who has a tap-activated ability.
2. Brago's Favor - Again, getting your general out an entire turn early is crazy good. If these two ever make the same player's hands, Kaalia swinging turn 3 with no acceleration is a possibility. Or t3-4 swinging Narset, Enlightened Master with a few mana rocks. Absurdity.
3. Backup Plan - The quality of this doesn't change one bit. Getting a free mulligan that you get to look at before deciding to take it? Sign me up.
4. Power Play - Going first is even better in this format because the first player still draws, and you usually only go first 25% of the time instead of 50%.
5. Unexpected Potential - Depending on your rules on this, this card can be used to either make your deck more consistent color-wise while still allowing you to freely cast a hugely powerful general, or, if like in my case, you allow it to also cheat color identity, it can allow for some truly broken "splashes".
6. Double Stroke - The things above hold true, but it still has a lot of power copying huge haymaker spells
7. Muzio's Perparations - It can pump any voltron-type general, which can make a lot of clocks a turn more lethal. It does silly things with persist creatures. It boosts Ghave, Marath, and other +1/+1 counters guys. Overall very solid.
8. Iterative Analysis - There's a number of good targets for repeated use that make this a value engine, and if there's one thing I love, it's value engines.
--THE BAD--
9. Secrets of Paradise - Unless you run a lot of cheap utility generals like Rhys, the Redeemed, Saffi Eriksdotter, etc, this isn't going to do much for you
10. Sentinel Dispatch - With fewer cheap creatures and less early combat, this speedbump is incredibly minor.
11. Advantageous Proclamation - It's a more minor bonus with the larger decksize, and I don't know if I'd even want to run fewer than the minimum number of cards because there's a high concentration of tutors (allowing for a lot of toolboxes).
--THE UGLY--
12. Worldknit - Because of the more stringent deck construction rules (must be exactly 65 cards + general), this is effectively impossible to run.
13. Secret Summoning - Without any duplicate creatures in the Cube, this does nothing at all, unless you have some reason to want to shuffle your library every time you cast your general.
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Cubetutor's compare cube function seems to be down at the moment, but maybe run your cube against some of the other edh ones on there and see if there are any omissions in your suite that might make a difference.
-D
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"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
What criteria do you use when you evaluate potential commanders?
The biggest one is "are they interesting"? I should take another look at PEDH Cube now that Khans gave us some decent Wedge options.
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http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/7742
As for the method behind commander selection, frankly some of the shards and wedges are so devoid of options, that you just have to run with what wizards has actually produced (such as the new wedge creatures from khans).
For the mono and guild commanders, I mainly included them based on the archetypes I wanted to support with the cube - tokens (sigil captain, trostini's summoner), counters (lorescale coatl), graveyard shenanigans (graverobber spider), ramp (garruk's packleader), voltron (fluxcharger, marisi's twinclaws, ascended lawmage), extort (vizkopa guildmage), control (viral drake, vampire nighthawk, baleful strix), durdle (mistmeadow witch, skyward eye prophets, nucklavee) and pet/want to try (akroan conscriptor, rhox warmonk).
Here's my selection ~ 1 of each mono, 2/guild, 2/shard, 1/wedge, 2 penta-color
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
The repeatable effects are probably the ones that shine better for this. I note you haven't got Havengul Lich, and he would probably be my first recommendation - he's in colour for the archetype, sticks Oona, Phenax or Aberration back on the table, and can reanimate from across the table. Very handy and well-loved critter in my cube, and gaining more of a reputation the more we play with him. Usually, the person who drafts Lich and Coffin Queen on the same night has a pretty good night.
Other than that, the only other things I can think of are some of the more expensive reanimation spells. Beacon of Unrest will keep getting shuffled back in. Dread Return or Unburial Rites can be flashed back if they've been milled. But I don't know if that's necessarily what you're chasing. Lich would certainly be the first recommendation, and a high pick for that archetype.
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Blech, that's not cool... so not many creatures hitting yards?
How about instants and sorceries? Diluvian Primordial? Wrexial?
Guiltfeeder rather enjoys full yards, too.
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Ah, I'm with you now... "It's MILL! Burn it! Kill it with fire!", eh?
The only mill-centric things I am running at the moment are SoBaM, Aberration, Ashiok and Extract from Darkness (as well as, to a lesser extent, Jace Beleren and Jace's Archivist). And this is mostly mill-by-stealth. The Sword and Jace are usually the only things that stay on the table (although the Aberration has had a kicked RoR or Spitting Image aimed at it by other players before, before it died). Still, it kind of sucks if you're spending half your reanimation spells reanimating the very things that are supposed to be enabling the strategy in the first place...
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I'm enjoying the new cards' assistance toward establishing a better curve in Red in my edh cube; dualcaster mage, Daretti, and Feldon will all help reduce Red's cuve while at the same time providing interesting effects and potentials for combos. Flamekin Village is a potential inclusion, especially if I cut down on my boros guild and slayers' stronghold.
For green, I will likely include Freyalise as a test case. I love her for the art and nostalgia factor, but I think most of green's already existing planeswalkers are superior.
Commander's Sphere and Myriad Landscape are nice remixes of mind stone and armillary sphere, respectively, but I'm not sure about either's inclusion yet. I could see replacing armillary with landscapes, to up the amount of sac lands available in my cube for Titania, Protector of Argoth. I'm not certain if the density of sac lands in my cube is high enough to facilitate her properly.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Commander's Sphere, Myriad Landscape, and Unstable Monolith are all slated for inclusion as well. Arcane Lighthouse and Assault Suit both seem really good, the former for fighting Voltron strategies and the latter for supporting them.
I like Flesh Carver, Overseer of the Damned, and maybe Necromantic Selection from the black cards.
Wave of Vitriol seems insane.
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Are you still considering the cube increase you've mentioned on and off over the years? Looking at Galspanic's newly posted edh cube on cubetutor is really giving me the itch to perform a modest reduction of my own...
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
As far as the size increase goes, one of the things that was holding me back was storage, but I may finally be getting the carrying case I had my eye on, so we'll see. I'm not sure if I'd ever really get 12 people together to draft though.
My two limiting factors at the moment (once I get the carrying case) are:
1) Wedge generals. Even with KtK giving us some good options, I still feel like I could use at least one more in UWR and WRB.
2) Snow lands. I've just barely managed to get enough snow lands for my current size, and I'd have to get 30 more of each to expand.
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"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
It definitely allows red to contribute more in a multiplayer format so I'm planning on trying them out at least in my Cube.
Going to have to take a look and see. Red definitely has some expendable options still, so making room for those red cards shouldn't be too hard.
Five colorless cuts will be a little harder. I assume I'll swap out Porn Horn for Sphere. Not sure on the others.
I've always run Sneak Attack, Hoarding Dragon, and Goblin Welder, and Faithless Looting has been on the bench for a while.
Trash for Treasure and Through the Breach seem a bit expensive for one-shot effects so I have never really tried them out. If you do, let me know how it goes.
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Myriad Landscape will replace Terramorphic Expanse or Evolving Wilds.
Wake the Dead will replace Profane Command.
Jazal Goldmane will replace Windborn Muse
Reef Worm takes out Shapesharer
Feldon of the Third Path removes Knollspine Dragon
Masterwork of Ingenuity bumps Tormod's Crypt.
Flamekin Village is one I want, but the only card it can replace is Kher Keep... tough call.
Commander's Sphere and Unstable Obelisk seem good, but I don't see anything to take out for them. I already have too many mana rocks.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I agree. The level of cards in these in general is much higher, while none of the new cards go "hah, sucks to be playing old stuff", which is fine to me.
And I think a list with all five decks would probably share a good 30-40% of my cube, which is really quite stellar.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
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New bordered:
Decree of Justice
Exclude (x4 for Pauper)
Goblin Welder
Priest of Titania (4x for Pauper)
Crystal Vein (Yeah, non foil!)
New Cards:
All 5 Walkers
Containment Priest
Hallowed Spiritkeeper
Jazal Goldmane
Masterwork of Ingenuity
Commander's Sphere
Assault Suit
Comeuppance
Fell the Mighty
Arcane Lighthouse
Reef Worm
Unstable Obelisk
Well of Ideas
Myriad Landscape
Spoils of Blood
Wake the Dead
Dualcaster Mage
Feldon of the Third Path
Impact Resonance
Scrap Mastery
Flamekin Village
Titania, Protector of Argoth
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.