So, obviously this guy is a combo machine and a very unique and interesting card.
I have literally 0 experience with him and was wondering just how good he really is.
What I'm curious about is the following.
1) Would you run him in cubes without the masticores?
2) In a Deck designed to maximize his effectivness, just how good is squee in the deck, and how competitive is this hypothetical deck to other cube decks?
3) Out of the set of all competive decks in a cube, how many of them use squee?
I assumed his primary value come from:
Skullclump, Masticores, Fauna shaman and Survival of the Fittest.
I guess why I ask this, is I'm wondering if his coolness factor is getting him in cubes and not because hes THAT useful.
In many decks that you use him (a semi specialized deck) is there many cards youd honestly rather have instead of him that you just didn't get to draft?
So, obviously this guy is a combo machine and a very unique and interesting card.
I have literally 0 experience with him and was wondering just how good he really is.
What I'm curious about is the following.
1) Would you run him in cubes without the masticores?
2) In a Deck designed to maximize his effectivness, just how good is squee in the deck, and how competitive is this hypothetical deck to other cube decks?
3) Out of the set of all competive decks in a cube, how many of them use squee?
I assumed his primary value come from:
Skullclump, Masticores, Fauna shaman and Survival of the Fittest.
I guess why I ask this, is I'm wondering if his coolness factor is getting him in cubes and not because hes THAT useful.
In many decks that you use him (a semi specialized deck) is there many cards youd honestly rather have instead of him that you just didn't get to draft?
I was just talking about this with a buddy tonight. He's good with the cards you listed plus:
New Liliana
Recurring Nightmare
Waterfront Bouncer
Psychatog
Worst case is as a 3-mana chump blocker to buy you some time. Squee is the definition of an excellent role-player. Play him in the right deck a few times and you'll see his value.
This card is just awesome, I love it maybe a little bit too much because it does all those little things so well, I kind of look at it similar to Life From the Loam in that it just does all of these little things so well that NO other card could possibly do. It's not like amazingly powerful or anything, I just really enjoy it.
Squee's problem in Cube is that he is always the second piece of a two-card combo. If you haven't drafted SotF / Fauna Shaman / Your-Masticore-Of-Choice already, Squee is usually more than useless as a draft target.
I'm considering including him, hoping I can slot him into Smokestack/Braids/Smallpox/etc decks. His mana cost is splashable, but you would have to keep casting him to be any good there. Still, with a Smokestack on the board it's probably ok.
I think Bloom's point about the two card combo is a pretty good point. I wonder, though, if there aren't just enough combo enablers at this point to make him worth inclusion.
All equipments, in particular Jitte and Skullclamp
Minor value against all forms of removal spells
~40 x/1 ground creatures that can't attack into it without dying
~25 4+ power ground creatures that just get chump blocked
Thats a very solid list! I think if a card like Stoneforge mystic is an auto include at 360, squee with over 20 powerful interactions likely deserves a slot.
And sometimes you just need a dude to chump-block your opponent's Blastoderm while it fades, or any generic body to carry a piece of equipment into the red zone, and he does that too.
I know we're totally on the opposite side than the hivemind on this one, but Squee, Goblin Nabob sees only MD play 32% of the time here.
Presumably the average maindeck percentage will be a little over fifty percent, given that you will be running about 23 of the 45 cards drafted, plus whatever lands you manage to pick up.
Given this I would be quite happy to have Squee getting into the maindeck one time in three, as I consciously run him as a somewhat narrow enabler. I don't keep tabs on maindeck frequency but 32% of the time seems about right.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I guess I was aware of what he did, but wasn't sure just how useful what he did was.
For example, yes he neuters vs random discard spells. But that's a very incremental advantage and if that was his only effect, it would be HORRIBLE to waste a card on it.
There seems to be so many "combos" but not too many that are really POWERFUL.
Like if you took a GOOD, COMPETITIVE deck that utilized squees advantages a fair bit. If you could replace squee with ANY card in the cube, how many cards would you replace him with before you would rather have squee.
For example if I had a deck with batterskull in it that was white mana heavy, there maybe 0 cards id want in my deck over a stoneforge mystic.
Given the huge list of interactions, im assuming that all these incremental edges add up to a very effective card, but just wanted to make sure.
There seems to be so many "combos" but not too many that are really POWERFUL.
I disagree. I think almost all of his combos are really powerful. Drawing an extra card a turn with Looter il-Kor or having free Unsummons every turn from Waterfront Bouncer is really savage. Not to mention the things it does with Survival/Fauna Shaman. And having any Masticore on the board with no drawback is just insane. Even the subtle interactions like turning your Faithless Looting into card advantage or having the cost on Forbid only be pitching 1 spell is pretty sick.
I disagree. I think almost all of his combos are really powerful. Drawing an extra card a turn with Looter il-Kor or having free Unsummons every turn from Waterfront Bouncer is really savage. Not to mention the things it does with Survival/Fauna Shaman. And having any Masticore on the board with no drawback is just insane. Even the subtle interactions like turning your Faithless Looting into card advantage or having the cost on Forbid only be pitching 1 spell is pretty sick.
Especially the latter, because one card per turn happens to be what you draw regulary. Just discard what you draw + Squee, and you have infinite Cancels! (somewhat limited to one per turn, but hey!)
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
So what would Squee's tipping point be in a Cube, IYHO? What percentage of cards does he need to interact with to be worthy of inclusion?
I found that the tipping point for a tribe in my cube was about 9/400, so tribal looks to be about 2.25%. However, Squee is but a single card... is he about the same (i.e. needs at least 9 really good cards to interact with in a 400-size cube)?
Squee has so many uses in cube it's ridiculous. He turns great cards into monstrosities. I've won a lot of games on the back of the card. Him and liliana of the veil is crazy good, never seen it though!
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Squee is mainly used in Survival decks here. He is nice with Masticores, Forbid, Liliana or some of the other cards mentioned, but Survival and Fauna Shaman tutor for him and this makes a big difference. If you don't have Survival (or Survival-bear) then you need multiple effects to make him usefull.
He gets better the smaller the cube as then this combo can get drafted more consistently.
Squee is mainly used in Survival decks here. He is nice with Masticores, Forbid, Liliana or some of the other cards mentioned, but Survival and Fauna Shaman tutor for him and this makes a big difference. If you don't have Survival (or Survival-bear) then you need multiple effects to make him usefull.
He gets better the smaller the cube as then this combo can get drafted more consistently.
This I agree with. My cube was simply too big for him to function well in it so he was removed. Despite us usually firing 8-10 person drafts it still wasn't enough for him to come together with Surviva/Fauna Shaman enough to warrant the slot and most of the other synergies were simply too narrow to justify the card. I understand the love and appreciation for him on these boards, he just didn't work in my cube.
i don't have a lot of experience with squee outside of winston and sealed, but in those formats he is basically a dead card in your cube. i never got much use out of him and i don't miss him.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
I don't prefer what it does in non-survival decks at all. If I was required to have a creature in my graveyard on top of Squee, I don't think I'd ever play the card. It's almost impossible to use it to pay upkeep costs and discard penalties that way. Which is most of what Squee does.
I played Squee in a sealed cube deck because he had a cute interaction with the Liliana of the Veil and Faithless Looting I'd cracked. That deck turned into Squee Voltron by the end of the night - he would be discarded for one of his cute interactions, I'd dig into some equipment, he'd come back, I'd suit him up and go to town. He's like a splashable Bloodghast.
Squee is also a good way to restart your Recurring Nightmare engine after some mass removal. He nullifies Liliana of the Veil and Nezumi Shortfang if your opponent runs any of these. The little goblin has dozens of uses.
Sure, he suffers the same fate as any built-around-me card: Sometimes, there is just nobody drafting a deck where he would be good in. When such a deck is drafted however, he can provide a lot of interesting synergies. I like cards like these. They reward clever drafting.
In our cube, Squee was so much better in Survival decks than anything else, followed by looters / Liliana 2 / Masticore, than anything else (with other uses such as stax / equipment wielding etc that tended to be negligible for us), that we ended up excluding Squee and let those cards stand on their own. We really haven't missed him.
Is Squee still the bees kness in modern Cube? Like I get that he has a a lot of cute interactions with a lot of other cards but there doesn't appear to be anything this card really breaks nor does it enable any decks or archetypes that would be hard to support beforehand. His role seems to be "you know that SUPER AWESOME card you're already playing? This card makes it slightly better. Enjoy!"
Is the opportunity cost of running Squee worth making cards like Masticores, looters, discard, sac effects, etc. better or worse when you'd still be perfectly happy playing with any of those cards sans Squee?
Man, I don't know. A lot of cards I like to combine Squee with are gone in the Modern format. I still think he's probably worth it, but it does lose the overall quantity of cards it interacts with, which would be the bummer there.
Sorry, when I say modern Cube I mean current Cube with the cards we have now and the design sensibilities we've acquired in the past 18 months. NOT a Cube restricted to the Modern format (Though I suppose answering the question in context of the Modern format as well is interesting and has use for those with Modern Cubes).
Sorry, when I say modern Cube I mean current Cube with the cards we have now and the design sensibilities we've acquired in the past 18 months. NOT a Cube restricted to the Modern format (Though I suppose answering the question in context of the Modern format as well is interesting and has use for those with Modern Cubes).
I find he earns the spot at every draft. And if they keep printing symmetrical discard spells like Liliana, it only gets better.
So, obviously this guy is a combo machine and a very unique and interesting card.
I have literally 0 experience with him and was wondering just how good he really is.
What I'm curious about is the following.
1) Would you run him in cubes without the masticores?
2) In a Deck designed to maximize his effectivness, just how good is squee in the deck, and how competitive is this hypothetical deck to other cube decks?
3) Out of the set of all competive decks in a cube, how many of them use squee?
I assumed his primary value come from:
Skullclump, Masticores, Fauna shaman and Survival of the Fittest.
I guess why I ask this, is I'm wondering if his coolness factor is getting him in cubes and not because hes THAT useful.
In many decks that you use him (a semi specialized deck) is there many cards youd honestly rather have instead of him that you just didn't get to draft?
Last Updated 02/07/24
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I was just talking about this with a buddy tonight. He's good with the cards you listed plus:
New Liliana
Recurring Nightmare
Waterfront Bouncer
Psychatog
Worst case is as a 3-mana chump blocker to buy you some time. Squee is the definition of an excellent role-player. Play him in the right deck a few times and you'll see his value.
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I think Bloom's point about the two card combo is a pretty good point. I wonder, though, if there aren't just enough combo enablers at this point to make him worth inclusion.
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Thats a very solid list! I think if a card like Stoneforge mystic is an auto include at 360, squee with over 20 powerful interactions likely deserves a slot.
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Pays discard costs (Masticore, Molten-Tail Masticore, Razormane Masticore, Forbid)
Mitigates discard activations (Survival of the Fittest, Fauna Shaman, Stormbind)
Imbalances symmetrical discard (Liliana of the Veil, Looter il-Kor, Enclave Cryptologist)
Counters opponent's selective discard (Liliana Vess, Liliana's Specter, Blazing Specter)
Neuters opponent's random discard (Hymn to Tourach, Mind Twist, Hypnotic Specter)
Pays sacrifice costs (Braids, Cabal Minion, Smokestack)
Enhances sacrifice abilities (Skullclamp, Recurring Nightmare, Greater Gargadon)
And sometimes you just need a dude to chump-block your opponent's Blastoderm while it fades, or any generic body to carry a piece of equipment into the red zone, and he does that too.
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Presumably the average maindeck percentage will be a little over fifty percent, given that you will be running about 23 of the 45 cards drafted, plus whatever lands you manage to pick up.
Given this I would be quite happy to have Squee getting into the maindeck one time in three, as I consciously run him as a somewhat narrow enabler. I don't keep tabs on maindeck frequency but 32% of the time seems about right.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
For example, yes he neuters vs random discard spells. But that's a very incremental advantage and if that was his only effect, it would be HORRIBLE to waste a card on it.
There seems to be so many "combos" but not too many that are really POWERFUL.
Like if you took a GOOD, COMPETITIVE deck that utilized squees advantages a fair bit. If you could replace squee with ANY card in the cube, how many cards would you replace him with before you would rather have squee.
For example if I had a deck with batterskull in it that was white mana heavy, there maybe 0 cards id want in my deck over a stoneforge mystic.
Given the huge list of interactions, im assuming that all these incremental edges add up to a very effective card, but just wanted to make sure.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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I disagree. I think almost all of his combos are really powerful. Drawing an extra card a turn with Looter il-Kor or having free Unsummons every turn from Waterfront Bouncer is really savage. Not to mention the things it does with Survival/Fauna Shaman. And having any Masticore on the board with no drawback is just insane. Even the subtle interactions like turning your Faithless Looting into card advantage or having the cost on Forbid only be pitching 1 spell is pretty sick.
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Especially the latter, because one card per turn happens to be what you draw regulary. Just discard what you draw + Squee, and you have infinite Cancels! (somewhat limited to one per turn, but hey!)
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
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I found that the tipping point for a tribe in my cube was about 9/400, so tribal looks to be about 2.25%. However, Squee is but a single card... is he about the same (i.e. needs at least 9 really good cards to interact with in a 400-size cube)?
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He gets better the smaller the cube as then this combo can get drafted more consistently.
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This I agree with. My cube was simply too big for him to function well in it so he was removed. Despite us usually firing 8-10 person drafts it still wasn't enough for him to come together with Surviva/Fauna Shaman enough to warrant the slot and most of the other synergies were simply too narrow to justify the card. I understand the love and appreciation for him on these boards, he just didn't work in my cube.
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Squee is also a good way to restart your Recurring Nightmare engine after some mass removal. He nullifies Liliana of the Veil and Nezumi Shortfang if your opponent runs any of these. The little goblin has dozens of uses.
Sure, he suffers the same fate as any built-around-me card: Sometimes, there is just nobody drafting a deck where he would be good in. When such a deck is drafted however, he can provide a lot of interesting synergies. I like cards like these. They reward clever drafting.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Is the opportunity cost of running Squee worth making cards like Masticores, looters, discard, sac effects, etc. better or worse when you'd still be perfectly happy playing with any of those cards sans Squee?
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I find he earns the spot at every draft. And if they keep printing symmetrical discard spells like Liliana, it only gets better.
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