MTG Salvation

Picking from any Vintage Legal card is WAY too good. Even being able to grab cards from the undrafted portion of the cube was too good when we tested them.

@ Toad: Owner in-game and "own" on the Wishes aren't the same thing. In-game, the term applies to the player who's deck the card started the game in. On the Wishes, it's specifically mentions that the card comes from outside the game, and has to be a card that's owned by the caster. That's talking about actual ownership, not "owns" in terms of in-game terminology. So the Boomerang example of returning the card to its owner's hand isn't referring to the same type of ownership as the text on the wishes is.

We don't need to quibble over semantics here. Clearly for the card to be cube worthy, you need to errata or house rule or somehow alter it in a way that requires explanation.

Should add Ring of Three Wishes to the OP/Title now.

Quote from Toad

It's not really semantics here. The wording printed on the cards has absolutely no meaning as far as MTG rules are concerned. MTG rules do not define ownership and the scope of outside the game in that situation. For tournament purpose, these have been specified (limited to sideboard).

There's a specific ruling that states that in unsanctioned games, it gets a card from your (the caster's) collection.

That's enough for me to show how the card is supposed to be played as printed.

Since I don't require players to have their personal collections available to tutor from, they can't be played as worded in our drafts.

Quote from Ruling »

10/1/2009 - In a sanctioned event, a card that's "outside the game" is one that's in your sideboard. In an unsanctioned event, you may choose any card from your collection.

I think that's pretty clear.

..........

Quote from Toad

For non tournament purpose, you have to house rule the card to be able to play it.

This is what we've been saying.

During a kitchen table game, the ruling says the card has to come from the caster's collection. It doesn't say they can get any Legacy-legal card.

Quote from Toad

Anyway, I think everyone has heard arguments from both sides and should be able to make up his mind now ^^

This, however, I do agree with.

i like the idea of these cards but I think the overhead is a little too much of a hassle. I treid booster tutor and like it ok, but it is much better when i had real packs to open. These would be fun for a while but a little pain.

The only card we errata is winter orb, because most of my group played it the orignal way for years, and were out of magic when it changed.

Quote from Toad

The card just cannot be played without a house rule ...

Again, this is where we'll have to leave it.

I think it's pretty clear what "your collection" means. Even without an official WOTC definition, a card you own from outside the game would still need to be a card you own from outside the game. I think it's perfectly (and clearly) defined as to how the card is supposed to work in all situations (sanctioned or not).

I don't think you need house rules or errata to play the card. But playing it as its Oracle text is just not very practical or fair.

The sideboard rule is the DCI making these cards playable in tournaments. Unless you consider your cube games a tournament this rule is not valid. Which means own=own. Not sideboard, not other cards in the cube. If you play it like this you are using a house rule, which is fine, but not for me.

I don't consider these playable, not because they are not strong enough, but because if not using house rules it would mean every players should bring their whole collection.

Quote from Toad

It's actually an answer from a high level Judge I gave you: for non tournament play, the card grabs whatever you want because MTG rules do not define what "your collection" means. The card just cannot be played without a house rule defining what the collection is.

What is not clear about 'owning' a card? Sure this is not practical but pretty clear to me. Own as in it is mine,I could shred it or sell it or do damn well whatever I like with it if I wanted to. If you want to get all rules lawyery one could say it would check the ownership at resolution, so you could not go quickly buy the card or something (but that would be pretty silly;) ).

Quote from Toad

It´s not an errata there so the situation is very different than Contract or Chaos Orb. The SB thing is just a tournament rule, not a MTG rule. I find that playing the Wishes this way kinda restores the intent of the card. This is how we play them since 2002, except they can tutor anything that is Legacy legal, even if it was already drafted. This way the Wishes are top tier picks, but far from broken.

Since you played with the wishes searching for anything legacy legal, what were some typical cards you wished for? There are probably many situational cards nobody would cube with, but that are perfect outs to some specific game states. I'm trying to put together a list of wish targets to help the players, since there are too many magic cards to remember them all.

I read pages 1 and 3 of this discussion and think it's pretty funny. Isn't the heart of Cube to have fun playing it? It's not like you're playing for prizes or anything. So play the cards how you want.

I have a set of the Holiday cards and the Wishes sleeved up and set aside in case we ever want to use them. Swapped in the Holiday cards around Christmas time and many laughs were had!

Burning Wish will always get a Contract from Below if I have my way.

It's sort of bizarre to me that everyone is treating the Magic Tournament Rules as irrelevant to cubing. We use tons of things from the MTR all the time, such as how to draft, deck sizes, match structure, etc. It makes no sense to act like you're throwing them out in regards to what is defined as a sideboard when you are using the rest of the rules prescribed in there.

In my opinion, if you want to houserule the cards to be other than what they are supposed to do (grab a card from your sideboard), that's fine. But it's a houserule/errata and not the normal functionality.

Who is arguing that it would be normal functionality? Some Cubes play Chaos Orb ffs.

Wow I definitely didn't think the discussion would go this way when I started this.

First of all sorry for duplicate tread, I did a brief search and didn't find anything, maybe I should have looked more.

In the errata discussion, why is it THAT big of a deal? I mean it's pretty simple if you are ok with modifying how the cards works run these if not then don't.

And as for the cards themselves wtwlf123 did bring a pretty big issue in the time part, especially since my cube is 720. But outside of that I'm willing to try these ones out since I already own the judge foil versions of the ones I would use(living,burning and cunning), I can come here and post some results later.

Okay, so my question is this:
How would you use the wishes (Death Wish, Glittering Wish, Living Wish, etc.) in a cube? Would you only use them to get cards from the sideboard or to get any card (that qualifies) from within the remaining card pool in the cube?

I'd have them target the sideboard like they do in the tournament ruleset.

In my cube, I have a preconstructed 15 cards sideboard for each wish in the cube (cunning/burning/living/glittering)).

I think that if the cube were small enough, one can simply choose any card from the cube with the wishes. I don't really see the big deal. Their purpose in casual play (which is what Cube is) is to fetch any card from your collection. The Cube is basically a single collection from which everyone drafts a deck to play casually with. So the leftover card pool is sort of like everyone's collection.

Minor necro, but assuming that the Wishes pull from the sideboard (as they do in sanctioned play), has anyone played with the wishes in that fashion? If so, how've they been?

I haven't since the early days of my cube. It was tough to give them a reasonable pool of good options, because most of those went into the deck we constructed.