My brother has a Ring of Maruf and has offered it to me, possibly to be added to cube. Has anyone tried playing with the Wishes or their Arabian Nights forbear? If so, do you limit players to fetching cards from their sideboards (as in tournament rules)? Do you play the cards as written? Or, perhaps as a compromise, do you allow players to fetch from the unused Cube cards?
Note the discrepancy between the Ring's printed wording (which, in referring to a card "that for some reason has left the game," suggests that exiled cards could be grabbed) and its Oracle wording (which treats it like the Wishes in that it can only get cards that were never a part of the game). Printed wording would be a more powerful effect, though the Ring costs so much for what it does.
I'd see these as having more value, oddly enough, in larger cubes if you allowed players to pick cards from the unused Cube cards. They would make the cube feel smaller, since powerful cards that didn't end up in the draft packs would still be part of the environment. Just be sure that the fetched cards don't wind their way into the deck permamently!
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Exiled cards are a part of the game, that's why you can't grab them with Wishes or the Ring. I don't see why anyone would think that they are not part of the game except that it used to be that way because of the old and awkward "removed from the game" wording.
Exiled cards are a part of the game, that's why you can't grab them with Wishes or the Ring. I don't see why anyone would think that they are not part of the game except that it used to be that way because of the old and awkward "removed from the game" wording.
Because Ring was clearly written with the ability to grab cards that are now what we know as "exiled."
Swords to Plowshares was in ABU, the wording on Ring indicates that you should be able to get a creature exiled by StP back in its original intent.
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Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
Exiled cards are a part of the game, that's why you can't grab them with Wishes or the Ring. I don't see why anyone would think that they are not part of the game except that it used to be that way because of the old and awkward "removed from the game" wording.
I understand the Oracle text for the Ring reflects the rules' adjustment to change "removed from the game" to "exiled." My point was simply to call attention to the change. The Ring used to let you grab "exiled" cards; that part of the card does nothing now (unfortunately -- is it really too powerful?).
In any case, I don't mean to use the Ring as a launching pad into a larger debate on whether cards in Cube should be played as written or with current Oracle text (as with Mox Diamond and Lotus Vale, for instance).
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we use burning/living/cunning on and off here and have them pull from the unused portion of the cube. We have a pretty small play group and there are always relevant targets available. living/cunning are good and burning is pretty broken (no real surprise.)
I included living wish, cunning wish, and burning wish. For each one I included 3 cards of each color with various effect. (living wish got a few lands like city of brass) you could either grab one of those cards or a card from your sideboard. they were really fun and pretty powerful/versatile cards for control and sometimes midrange. Eventually they left the cube simply because it was cumbersome to maintain the separate wish piles without them getting accidentally shuffled into the cube, and they were basically a 15+ spell split card.
As per MTG rules, the Wishes can search anywhere for any card you own. The SB limitation is just a tournament rule. No bad feelings for breaking that!
I agree with that for cubing with cards like the Ring (especially) and wishes. The point of Cube, in my opinion, is fun games of "classic" magic. Wish effects are more fun (and powerful) if they can grab a card from anywhere -- just like back when Ring of Ma'ruf was printed. If they can't do that, I don't think that they're worth running in most cubes.
I don't understand why they just don't errata the wishes back to get exiled cards as well as sideboarded cards. They've been going back on power level errata for some time now, and the cards were originally intended to get stuff from the RFG zone in tournament play.
I just don't see the wishes making insane waves in Legacy or Vintage, and if they do they can always ban/restrict them.
The reason why they most likely decided to make them not get exiled cards anymore is that they want unnecessary complexity. Under the current rules, the exiled zone is one of the zones in the game and therefor unaffected by the outside the game tutors. If you did not play before that changes, you would be very surprised if the card would get exiled cards but no cards in the graveyard.
Unless they were erattaed to have the effect "Chose a [type] card you own from outside the game or an exiled [type] card you own, reveal that card, and put it into your hand."
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"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
In my opinion it is better that the oracle wording is closer to the printed wording of the card than how it used to work under the old rules.
This line of thinking also lead WotC to remove the part on Winter Orb that states that the card only works when it is untapped.
Thanks for the Winter Orb example; I think I agree with you now. When reading the printed text on the Ring of Maruf, I was focusing on the text "for some reason has left the game," which I wanted to give effect to. I was not focused on the "outside the game" text in the first sentence, which is now a defined concept in the rules. By giving effect to how "leaving the game" used to work under the old rules (by merging "exile" with "outside the game"), I'd be negating the current defined meaning of "outside the game." So, one of the two phrases has to give, and I can see why it's better to play the card with current rules and definitions than with ad hoc exceptions.
Besides, who knows what Wizards has in store--maybe a new mythic rare will "remove a card from the game," thereby giving meaning back to the Ring's second sentence.
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Besides, who knows what Wizards has in store--maybe a new mythic rare will "remove a card from the game," thereby giving meaning back to the Ring's second sentence.
This would be the douchiest thing to do in the history of the game, as it would be utterly confusing to almost everyone, old players returning to the game and new players alike. Hell, it would probably confuse a good portion of pros right now.
So in our last draft the idea of running wishes allowing to search for the whole cube appeared and sounded interesting. It's similar to the Booster Tutor getting a pack from the cube.Seems good to find combo pieces or spells that you didn't manage to draft, like a counterspell, burn spell or a blocker in a pinch. So what do you think?
Hmmmm.... this seems insanely OP at first glance? On the other hand, I can't determine how much better it is than booster tutor because you are restricted on the card type...
If you are the type of person that likes to errata cards to make them playable, then sure, these should be at the top of the list, along with Chaos Orb and Contract from Below.
It´s not an errata there so the situation is very different than Contract or Chaos Orb. The SB thing is just a tournament rule, not a MTG rule. I find that playing the Wishes this way kinda restores the intent of the card. This is how we play them since 2002, except they can tutor anything that is Legacy legal, even if it was already drafted. This way the Wishes are top tier picks, but far from broken.
This sounds realy cool! I'm just not sold on the "it's not an errata" thing. Convince me and I'm on the bandwagon
If it doesn't get a card that the caster owns from outside the game, it's errata. If each player wants to bring a box of cards they own to tutor from when cubing, go for it. Otherwise, you're playing with errata.
We played them with the ability to tutor the unused portion of the cube, but they were both ridiculously powerful and a pain in the ass to resolve (logistically; they took forever). Then we limited them to your unused drafted cards, and they weren't good enough. Overall, not worth it.
10/1/2009: In a sanctioned event, a card that's "outside the game" is one that's in your sideboard. In an unsanctioned event, you may choose any card from your collection.
So the errata of the wishes is actually for tournaments. Here we go! Welcome to my cube wishes!
10/1/2009: In a sanctioned event, a card that's "outside the game" is one that's in your sideboard. In an unsanctioned event, you may choose any card from your collection.
So the errata of the wishes is actually for tournaments. Here we go! Welcome to my cube wishes!
But the caster of the wish has to get a card that they own from their collection. Unless they're grabbing one of their own cards that they personally own, it's an errata.
Certainly grabbing any "Legacy legal" card is a house rule. Because that player may not own every legacy legal card, for one, and for two, they may own cards that aren't legacy legal that they can't tutor up for some reason.
So, if the player casting the wish rifles through a box or binder of his or her own cards and comes up with a target, that's how it can be played. If you're doing anything other than that, it's a house rule.
I don't think they should be played with sideboard rules either. I don't think there's a way to integrate Wishes into the cube without enacting some sort of house rule, which we don't want to do.
I'm more comfortable changing draft rules (like using 5 packs of 9, or playing Winston) than I am pretending that cards do something different than what is printed on them (or what their Oracle wording is).
But the caster of the wish has to get a card that they own from their collection. Unless they're grabbing one of their own cards that they personally own, it's an errata.
Since proxies are allowed in my cube, any player can print/write/paint whatever card he wants to "own" a copy of it outside of the game. I'll definitely give the wishes a try.
My main concern is from what card pool cards can be chosen. Since my cube is vintage legal, I'm tempted to allow wishing for any vintage legal card. Too busted? I don't know, we're in cube land where everything is busted. The other option would be legacy legal cards like toad mentioned, but this seems a bit arbitary. The last option I see is to design a "wish pool" from which cards can be chosen, but again this doesn't feel right. For the beginning I'll try the vintage pool and see how it fares.
Since proxies are allowed in my cube, any player can print/write/paint whatever card he wants to "own" a copy of it outside of the game. I'll definitely give the wishes a try.
That actually sounds like a cool concept.
"Name a [land/instant/sorc] card. Put a copy of the named card into your hand. Remove ~ from the game."
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
But the caster of the wish has to get a card that they own from their collection. Unless they're grabbing one of their own cards that they personally own, it's an errata.
Does running borrowed cards count as errata? I ran Cunning Wishes in my 'Tog deck in Standard back in the day (mostly due to me being poor and the deck being SO CHEAP to build) and friends used to let me borrow cards all the time.
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Picking from the rest of your draft picks (sideboard) doesn't constitute an erratum, for me. It's the closest thing you get to the sanctioned version of the card according to WotC. As for picking from the whole remainder of the cube, that seems a little too strong for my liking, but it's hardly offensive as errata go and still seems to be in the spirit of the Wish itself.
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Because Ring was clearly written with the ability to grab cards that are now what we know as "exiled."
Swords to Plowshares was in ABU, the wording on Ring indicates that you should be able to get a creature exiled by StP back in its original intent.
I understand the Oracle text for the Ring reflects the rules' adjustment to change "removed from the game" to "exiled." My point was simply to call attention to the change. The Ring used to let you grab "exiled" cards; that part of the card does nothing now (unfortunately -- is it really too powerful?).
In any case, I don't mean to use the Ring as a launching pad into a larger debate on whether cards in Cube should be played as written or with current Oracle text (as with Mox Diamond and Lotus Vale, for instance).
- My Full Mirrodin Cube (draft it here)
- My One-Drop Cube (draft it here)
MCC Winner Nov ‘14 & Nov ‘15
I agree with that for cubing with cards like the Ring (especially) and wishes. The point of Cube, in my opinion, is fun games of "classic" magic. Wish effects are more fun (and powerful) if they can grab a card from anywhere -- just like back when Ring of Ma'ruf was printed. If they can't do that, I don't think that they're worth running in most cubes.
So wouldn't it have to be a card (the caster) actually owns and has with them? I mean, in the spirit of the cards and all.
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I just don't see the wishes making insane waves in Legacy or Vintage, and if they do they can always ban/restrict them.
There are obvious problems with that for tournament play, but for casual play who cares what people do? If they have fun with it, live and let live.
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I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
Unless they were erattaed to have the effect "Chose a [type] card you own from outside the game or an exiled [type] card you own, reveal that card, and put it into your hand."
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
Thanks for the Winter Orb example; I think I agree with you now. When reading the printed text on the Ring of Maruf, I was focusing on the text "for some reason has left the game," which I wanted to give effect to. I was not focused on the "outside the game" text in the first sentence, which is now a defined concept in the rules. By giving effect to how "leaving the game" used to work under the old rules (by merging "exile" with "outside the game"), I'd be negating the current defined meaning of "outside the game." So, one of the two phrases has to give, and I can see why it's better to play the card with current rules and definitions than with ad hoc exceptions.
Besides, who knows what Wizards has in store--maybe a new mythic rare will "remove a card from the game," thereby giving meaning back to the Ring's second sentence.
- My Full Mirrodin Cube (draft it here)
- My One-Drop Cube (draft it here)
MCC Winner Nov ‘14 & Nov ‘15
This would be the douchiest thing to do in the history of the game, as it would be utterly confusing to almost everyone, old players returning to the game and new players alike. Hell, it would probably confuse a good portion of pros right now.
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
So in our last draft the idea of running wishes allowing to search for the whole cube appeared and sounded interesting. It's similar to the Booster Tutor getting a pack from the cube.Seems good to find combo pieces or spells that you didn't manage to draft, like a counterspell, burn spell or a blocker in a pinch. So what do you think?
Duplicate threads merged.
—Lanxal
http://cubetutor.playworks.cloudbees.net/viewcube/57
I say test it out.
L2 Judge
This sounds realy cool! I'm just not sold on the "it's not an errata" thing. Convince me and I'm on the bandwagon
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
We played them with the ability to tutor the unused portion of the cube, but they were both ridiculously powerful and a pain in the ass to resolve (logistically; they took forever). Then we limited them to your unused drafted cards, and they weren't good enough. Overall, not worth it.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
10/1/2009: In a sanctioned event, a card that's "outside the game" is one that's in your sideboard. In an unsanctioned event, you may choose any card from your collection.
So the errata of the wishes is actually for tournaments. Here we go! Welcome to my cube wishes!
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
But the caster of the wish has to get a card that they own from their collection. Unless they're grabbing one of their own cards that they personally own, it's an errata.
Certainly grabbing any "Legacy legal" card is a house rule. Because that player may not own every legacy legal card, for one, and for two, they may own cards that aren't legacy legal that they can't tutor up for some reason.
So, if the player casting the wish rifles through a box or binder of his or her own cards and comes up with a target, that's how it can be played. If you're doing anything other than that, it's a house rule.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I'm more comfortable changing draft rules (like using 5 packs of 9, or playing Winston) than I am pretending that cards do something different than what is printed on them (or what their Oracle wording is).
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Since proxies are allowed in my cube, any player can print/write/paint whatever card he wants to "own" a copy of it outside of the game. I'll definitely give the wishes a try.
My main concern is from what card pool cards can be chosen. Since my cube is vintage legal, I'm tempted to allow wishing for any vintage legal card. Too busted? I don't know, we're in cube land where everything is busted. The other option would be legacy legal cards like toad mentioned, but this seems a bit arbitary. The last option I see is to design a "wish pool" from which cards can be chosen, but again this doesn't feel right. For the beginning I'll try the vintage pool and see how it fares.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
That actually sounds like a cool concept.
"Name a [land/instant/sorc] card. Put a copy of the named card into your hand. Remove ~ from the game."
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
The art on these bad boys are super sweet too.
Does running borrowed cards count as errata? I ran Cunning Wishes in my 'Tog deck in Standard back in the day (mostly due to me being poor and the deck being SO CHEAP to build) and friends used to let me borrow cards all the time.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms: