I'm sure this card has been discussed to death, but that was probably before my time on this forum. Triskelion is a bit of a riddle to me. How does such an unassuming fellow make it onto such tight lists? How is 6 worth paying for him in the era where that same investment can get you a card like Wurmcoil Engine?
Please discuss why you include or don't include Mr. Trike here.
It's a colorless aggro hoser for a not-unreasonable cost that can be found via Enlightened Tutor, be cheated into play with Tinker, abused with blink effects like Restoration Angel or Parallax Wave, and can be resurrected with Reveillark. It can also ping planeswalkers in a pinch.
It didn't make my powered 360 list, and it's not as good as Wurmcoil Engine, but its versatility justifies its spot at anything at 450+. And as aggro gets more and more beaters, and blink effects become more and more common, I think it will only become better.
I played Triskelion in my powered 360, and I'd definitely play it at anything higher. I don't think I've ever had less than 3-for-1 card advantage out of this card, and that's not including all the ways to abuse him. If you can chain him in any way (with blink, reanimation, flicker, clones, anything) he's just sick. That kind of dividable damage shouldn't be available outside of red, and I think he's just stellar. The low power makes him a decent 'Lark target, and he's colorless, so he can fit into a ton of decks. He's worse than Inferno Titan, but the comparison's not fair because he interacts with so many other cards and strategies, and he requires no color commitment. Sticking this guy to a Mimic Vat or chaining him with Venser is just silly.
Trike is also very abusable with reanimation / recursion effects.
I've absued him before with something as simple as Coffin Queen (throw two points around, waste the last one on Trike, pick him back up next turn with the Queen).
Game-winningly broken with Mikaeus the Unhallowed or Mephidross Vampire (if you've squeaked one of those two into your cube... Mikaeus is obviously far more likely).
I'm pretty sure I've seen someone use him next to Gleancrawler to effect in my cube already.
So you are saying that every time you ended up playing this card, your opponent had a 1 toughness creature on the table (or played a x/1 into your Trike)?
That sounds about right for wtwlf's cube...
Trike is quickly getting outclassed from a cost perspective, but I think he still does good work. Getting a chunk of direct damage from a colorless source is not to be underestimated. Unaided, he's not the greatest, but there are enough decks that want this kind of guy. He's becoming more of a pet card it seems.
Trike got cut in our last update. Yea, sure if you get a bunch of other cards going he can do some cool things, but honestly, even then he's not that good. Look at what you're combining him with, and other comparably priced cards in that combination
Combined with Reveillark, he certainly doesn't seem as good as Hornet Queen or Deranged Hermit
Combined with Mimic Vat, the other two guys I just mentioned seem better, but also any of the Titans seem light years better
I was going to keep going but I just realized how ridiculous these comparisons are. Yea, sure, he's good when combined with those cards. However, there are other cards that are good with Mimic Vat, Venser the Sojourner, Recurring Nightmare, etc. that are ALSO good on their own, which he really isn't.
I just can't get behind the argument that a 6 mana arc lightning is cubeable because it's splashable and is really good when combined with some of the best cards ever made.
LOVE the old artwork! I really wish they would make a foil of that...maybe with old border like the swords!
Drool.
Seriously, though, I like Trike. I should make election signs. Abusable with lots of different effects in Cube (reanimation, blinking, artifact interactions).
I love me some trike, but he has definitely become a question mark at 450, thanks to Wurmcoil, and the Titans, and all the other high cost goodness out there.
Abusable with lots of different effects in Cube (reanimation, blinking, artifact interactions).
-AA
I get what you're saying about him being abusable with those cards, but he's still incredibly overcosted for what he does given modern creature power. The obvious comparison is Inferno Titan. For the same amount of mana, he's equally as abusable via Reanimation and Blinking, although obviously not the artifact interaction, and he's MILES more powerful. Beyond that, though, even if you're not abusing him, he's just good by himself. Trike just doesn't seem to be good unless you're abusing him, which to me is a sign of a bad card.
I just keep comparing him to other comparably costed things and he comes up short. I agree, when he's in play and you have a lot of things to do with him, it's really cool. But seriously, you could return him or Hornet Queen with Reveillark, you could reanimate any of the amazing fatties, you could blink any of the Titans, you could mimic vat keldon champion.
Anytime people point out how abusable trike is, all I see is these amazing shenanigans situations people have where trike is the weakest card in the combo. Sure, Mimic Vat and a creature with an ability that repeats itself if you can keep bringing it into play is awesome. Does it really matter what creature? Same with Venser, etc.
TL;DR: Trike is awesome in situations where most creatures with ETB abilities are awesome. However, unlike most ETB creatures, he's not very good in other situations.
I get what you're saying about him being abusable with those cards, but he's still incredibly overcosted for what he does given modern creature power. The obvious comparison is Inferno Titan. For the same amount of mana, he's equally as abusable via Reanimation and Blinking, although obviously not the artifact interaction, and he's MILES more powerful. Beyond that, though, even if you're not abusing him, he's just good by himself. Trike just doesn't seem to be good unless you're abusing him, which to me is a sign of a bad card.
I disagree with this. Comparing it to inferno titan is unfair, because one is colorless and the other one isn't. The ability to interact with the card increases by a lot when you're dealing with a non color-committed card.
And it's power-level is just fine on its own. Like I said, it's typically a colorless 3-for-1. I don't find it overcosted at all. It's one of those cards that looks terrible on paper and is outstanding in practice.
Quote from JeffDerek »
Anytime people point out how abusable trike is, all I see is these amazing shenanigans situations people have where trike is the weakest card in the combo. Sure, Mimic Vat and a creature with an ability that repeats itself if you can keep bringing it into play is awesome. Does it really matter what creature? Same with Venser, etc.
Yes, it does matter what creature. Some are average. Others are good. Cards like Triskelion though, are outstanding. There's a big difference.
I'm with Jeff on this one. Trike is fine for an older Magic card, but he is showing his age now. He's fair, and cube isn't really about that. True, he can be abused with the blink archetype. So can a lot of other great cards, cards that are great all on their own. My six-cost artifact creature is Wurmcoil Engine. Comparing the Engine to Trike makes me sad. There are better, more relevant artifacts I could be running, so Trike is out.
Now that's not quite fair, some of us like building cubes that are fair and balanced to varying degrees.
That being said, he still seems perfectly fine to me and goes great along with other cards that fit into the same strategies that he wants. Is there some hidden law that states you can't have Inferno Titan and Trike in the same deck? More so, doesn't Goblin Welder benefit that plan by either cycling Trike or bringing back a dead Mimic Vat? Seriously now, why are all bombs considered so mutually exclusive to one another?
It's easy to hate on Trike, because he looks bad, and he's really old. But so long as it continues to play like a top caliber card, I don't need to try and convince myself to cut it. If it ever starts to be bad, I'll let you know.
He's awesome in my '94 Magic cube. He fulfills a role as either a beater or a removal card. Not a lot of other colorless cards can claim that ability (especially in '94).
Another reason i like running a slightly bigger cube. This guy wins games.
Are you running 6 drops that don't win games?
I realize I'm comparing colorless to colored, but we just had a discussion the other day about Consecrated Sphinx, and a popular opinion was "all he does is draw you into your other win condition. I need my 6 drop to actually win me the game after I play it"
To me, Triskelion seems like the Consecrated Sphinx of that discussion, and Wurmcoil Engine feels like the Sphinx of Jwar Isle. When I resolve a big 6 mana dude, I want to feel like I'm going to win. If my opponent and I both resolve by 6 mana dudes, I want to be on relatively equal footing with them.
If you play Triskelion on your turn, and you pass the turn to your opponent, and they play their 6th land and slam another 6drop in the cube, which cards could they have played that would make you feel like you were ahead?
It is more of a utility creature. But instead of drawing cards or securing lands, it has an immediate impact on the board, killing multiple lower-toughness creatures.
Replace the comparison to other 6-drops at the bottom of your post with any other CMC, and you'll see the function:
Quote from JD »
If you play Triskelion on your turn, and you pass the turn to your opponent, and they play their 6th land and slam another 6drop in the cube, which cards could they have played that would make you feel like you were ahead?
If you play Murderous Redcap on your turn, and you pass the turn to your opponent, and they play their 4th land and slam another 4drop in the cube, which cards could they have played that would make you feel like you were ahead?
Even though the body left behind is unimpressive compared to the other sick 4cc creatures in the cube, Redcap will impact the board when it resolves and that adds to the value of the card. Trike is the Redcap of the bigger creatures.
Replace the comparison to other 6-drops at the bottom of your post with any other CMC, and you'll see the function:
I don't necessarily agree that all spots on the curve are created equal. If I'm playing a slow control deck my three drop might be Darksteel Ingot, compared to your Liliana of the Veil. I'm ok with your three drop being much better than mine, because I'm running six drops.
Pretty much every deck runs 3drops. Not every deck runs 6drops. Therefore, comparing 6drops among slower decks seems like a much more valid comparison than compring 3drops or 4drops.
If you play Murderous Redcap on your turn, and you pass the turn to your opponent, and they play their 4th land and slam another 4drop in the cube, which cards could they have played that would make you feel like you were ahead?
Even though the body left behind is unimpressive compared to the other sick 4cc creatures in the cube, Redcap will impact the board when it resolves and that adds to the value of the card. Trike is the Redcap of the bigger creatures.
I don't run Redcap either, for most of the same reasons I don't run Trike. I might reconsider it now that I'm pushing sacrifice in black, but I'm not sure I'd find space for it.
If you don't use Redcap, you won't like Trike, and the conversation is pretty much done. Redcap is absolutely SICK, and is hands-down the best BR gold card. Like, not even remotely close. So, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on.
If you don't use Redcap, you won't like Trike, and the conversation is pretty much done.
That's probably valid. At this point I haven't really been trying to change your mind, since I think we're both pretty sold on our opinions of these cards, but the discussion itself has remained fairly civil and I think it has generated some interesting ways to analyze the card, which I guess is what the thread is for.
That said, I think you're right, we've beaten this horse to death.
It's helpful to see people with strong opinions discuss for us spectators. Personally, I would say I'm sort of in the middle on Trike. He's certainly not the best 6-drop, or even the best colorless 6-drop, but he's good enough on his own and when you can combo him, he can be very good. He's also pretty good at stabilizing, and there are times when Spinx of Jwar Isle blocks on creature and then you die to the other few or to Soltari Bros. I don't think any of these situations, Trike combos, stabilizing when something else wouldn't, come up all that often, but that's what's cool about Trike, he ends up fitting in a lot of places and so he doesn't have to be the best at any one.
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Please discuss why you include or don't include Mr. Trike here.
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It didn't make my powered 360 list, and it's not as good as Wurmcoil Engine, but its versatility justifies its spot at anything at 450+. And as aggro gets more and more beaters, and blink effects become more and more common, I think it will only become better.
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I've absued him before with something as simple as Coffin Queen (throw two points around, waste the last one on Trike, pick him back up next turn with the Queen).
Game-winningly broken with Mikaeus the Unhallowed or Mephidross Vampire (if you've squeaked one of those two into your cube... Mikaeus is obviously far more likely).
I'm pretty sure I've seen someone use him next to Gleancrawler to effect in my cube already.
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That sounds about right for wtwlf's cube...
Trike is quickly getting outclassed from a cost perspective, but I think he still does good work. Getting a chunk of direct damage from a colorless source is not to be underestimated. Unaided, he's not the greatest, but there are enough decks that want this kind of guy. He's becoming more of a pet card it seems.
Combined with Reveillark, he certainly doesn't seem as good as Hornet Queen or Deranged Hermit
Combined with Mimic Vat, the other two guys I just mentioned seem better, but also any of the Titans seem light years better
I was going to keep going but I just realized how ridiculous these comparisons are. Yea, sure, he's good when combined with those cards. However, there are other cards that are good with Mimic Vat, Venser the Sojourner, Recurring Nightmare, etc. that are ALSO good on their own, which he really isn't.
I just can't get behind the argument that a 6 mana arc lightning is cubeable because it's splashable and is really good when combined with some of the best cards ever made.
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Drool.
Seriously, though, I like Trike. I should make election signs. Abusable with lots of different effects in Cube (reanimation, blinking, artifact interactions).
-AA
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I get what you're saying about him being abusable with those cards, but he's still incredibly overcosted for what he does given modern creature power. The obvious comparison is Inferno Titan. For the same amount of mana, he's equally as abusable via Reanimation and Blinking, although obviously not the artifact interaction, and he's MILES more powerful. Beyond that, though, even if you're not abusing him, he's just good by himself. Trike just doesn't seem to be good unless you're abusing him, which to me is a sign of a bad card.
I just keep comparing him to other comparably costed things and he comes up short. I agree, when he's in play and you have a lot of things to do with him, it's really cool. But seriously, you could return him or Hornet Queen with Reveillark, you could reanimate any of the amazing fatties, you could blink any of the Titans, you could mimic vat keldon champion.
Anytime people point out how abusable trike is, all I see is these amazing shenanigans situations people have where trike is the weakest card in the combo. Sure, Mimic Vat and a creature with an ability that repeats itself if you can keep bringing it into play is awesome. Does it really matter what creature? Same with Venser, etc.
TL;DR: Trike is awesome in situations where most creatures with ETB abilities are awesome. However, unlike most ETB creatures, he's not very good in other situations.
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I disagree with this. Comparing it to inferno titan is unfair, because one is colorless and the other one isn't. The ability to interact with the card increases by a lot when you're dealing with a non color-committed card.
And it's power-level is just fine on its own. Like I said, it's typically a colorless 3-for-1. I don't find it overcosted at all. It's one of those cards that looks terrible on paper and is outstanding in practice.
Yes, it does matter what creature. Some are average. Others are good. Cards like Triskelion though, are outstanding. There's a big difference.
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Now that's not quite fair, some of us like building cubes that are fair and balanced to varying degrees.
That being said, he still seems perfectly fine to me and goes great along with other cards that fit into the same strategies that he wants. Is there some hidden law that states you can't have Inferno Titan and Trike in the same deck? More so, doesn't Goblin Welder benefit that plan by either cycling Trike or bringing back a dead Mimic Vat? Seriously now, why are all bombs considered so mutually exclusive to one another?
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Are you running 6 drops that don't win games?
I realize I'm comparing colorless to colored, but we just had a discussion the other day about Consecrated Sphinx, and a popular opinion was "all he does is draw you into your other win condition. I need my 6 drop to actually win me the game after I play it"
A lot of those people (myself included) preferred Sphinx of Jwar Isle, Meloku the Clouded Mirror, or Keiga, the Tide Star as their blue finisher of choice, because those cards, if not quickly answered, win the game on their own.
To me, Triskelion seems like the Consecrated Sphinx of that discussion, and Wurmcoil Engine feels like the Sphinx of Jwar Isle. When I resolve a big 6 mana dude, I want to feel like I'm going to win. If my opponent and I both resolve by 6 mana dudes, I want to be on relatively equal footing with them.
If you play Triskelion on your turn, and you pass the turn to your opponent, and they play their 6th land and slam another 6drop in the cube, which cards could they have played that would make you feel like you were ahead?
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Replace the comparison to other 6-drops at the bottom of your post with any other CMC, and you'll see the function:
If you play Murderous Redcap on your turn, and you pass the turn to your opponent, and they play their 4th land and slam another 4drop in the cube, which cards could they have played that would make you feel like you were ahead?
Even though the body left behind is unimpressive compared to the other sick 4cc creatures in the cube, Redcap will impact the board when it resolves and that adds to the value of the card. Trike is the Redcap of the bigger creatures.
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I don't necessarily agree that all spots on the curve are created equal. If I'm playing a slow control deck my three drop might be Darksteel Ingot, compared to your Liliana of the Veil. I'm ok with your three drop being much better than mine, because I'm running six drops.
Pretty much every deck runs 3drops. Not every deck runs 6drops. Therefore, comparing 6drops among slower decks seems like a much more valid comparison than compring 3drops or 4drops.
I don't run Redcap either, for most of the same reasons I don't run Trike. I might reconsider it now that I'm pushing sacrifice in black, but I'm not sure I'd find space for it.
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That's probably valid. At this point I haven't really been trying to change your mind, since I think we're both pretty sold on our opinions of these cards, but the discussion itself has remained fairly civil and I think it has generated some interesting ways to analyze the card, which I guess is what the thread is for.
That said, I think you're right, we've beaten this horse to death.
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