This episode of Marshall Sutcliffe and Luis Scott-Vargas' retail limited podcast strategy discusses their strategy tips for new cube drafters. It's actually from two weeks ago, but podcasts and strategy advice geared towards cube drafters as opposed to cube designers are something we can definitely use more of IMHO, and I haven't seen anyone post about it yet. It's definitely still worth a listen if you haven't heard it yet. After a brief discussion of what cube is, why they think it's the best format in Magic, and their experience with cube (LSV's been building and drafting cubes since 2003!) they discuss how people who aren't familiar with cube drafts can win more. I don't agree with all of the advice here, but it's still one of the most comprehensive cube drafting strategy guides I've come across that's geared towards inexperienced cube drafters.
The relevant parts of the podcast are over an hour long, so here are the highlights of Marshall and LSV's advice:
Know the cube and what the best cards are in it. There are a lot of different kinds of cubes out there, including C/Ubes, themed cubes, powered, unpowered, and even mono-colored cubes. Checking out the list before you start drafting it will help you do better, you'll know what the best cards are that you should watch for and what kinds of archetypes are supported. The remainder of their advice applies to what most MTGS users would consider a standard powered or unpowered list.
Cards to prioritize during draft:
In powered cubes, just take any of the Power 9 or fast manafacts like Mana Crypt or Sol Ring if you see them.
Mana rocks like the Signets, being able to cast your most powerful spells a turn faster is hard to underrate.
Most cube drafters should prioritize cheap, interactive cards and cantrips higher. There is no shortage of 4CMC+ finishers in cube, and you don't need very many in your deck. Cheap spot removal, counterspells, and cantrips will help smooth out your draws and disrupt your opponents' plans, and their decks will have no shortage of bombs either.
Green mana accelerants are the next best ramp after fast manafacts. Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary is head and shoulders above the best, but 1CMC elves are also fantastic for casting your broken cube cards a turn faster than your opponent.
Mana-fixing lands. You should never be short on playable spells in a cube draft, so it pays to use as many of your picks as you can on lands to help smooth out your mana so you can cast your spells on time. Losing a turn to color-screw can get you run over in cube.
Control decks are reliably strong with 2-3 big finishers, 3-5 3+CMC card draw spells plus a bunch of cheap interactive spells. Mana rocks are also great in these builds if you can get them, but not necessary. These decks are a good shell for the kinds of "broken" combos mentioned above.
Mono-red aggro when open is the only aggro deck that has enough consistency to be viable in most cubes. Prioritize Sulfuric Vortex, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, as many 2-power 1-drop creatures as you can get your hands on, and 4CMC finishers should be at the top of your curve.
Mono-green/Simic ramp decks filled with cheap mana accelerants, card draw, 6+CMC finishers, and maybe some splashable blue counterspells.
Opposition decks. They called this a "one card deck", and unfortunately didn't really clarify what you need to make a good Opposition deck work, but I assume they mean Opposition plus token generators.
Decks to avoid:
Reanimator decks are difficult to draft and too inconsistent for someone who is new to cube drafting, or even new to drafting a particular cube. Reanimation can be a good subtheme in a Dimir-based control deck, but they're better off avoided by less experienced cube drafters.
Aggro strategies other than mono-red are not consistent enough to be competitive in most cubes. While white weenie and suicide black based aggro strategies are supported in many cubes, typically the payoff just isn't there. Even red based aggro decks splashing another color tend to have some of the worst win rates on MTGO-based cubes. They just don't hold up against "broken" strategies supported by the typical cube. Marshall disagrees with LSV on this one somewhat, because one of his pet cube decks is Dimir tempo full of the black one drops that no one else seems to want plus cheap spot removal, counters, and cantrips.
Golgari "The Rock"-style midrange decks and 4-5 color "Goodstuff.dec" midrange strategies. These decks tend to be too slow and unfocused to compete with the decks of experienced cube drafters who can take advantage of the synergies available in cube. LSV specifically calls out Thrun, the Last Troll as the poster child of terrible midrange decks, and says it's a card that should never be main-decked in a cube draft, but it's the kind of card that looks attractive to players who don't have a proper plan during their draft or deckbuilding.
Their final advice is to have a plan while you're drafting and building your deck to take advantage of the powerful synergies and interactions available in cube drafts.
Again, I don't agree with all of Marshall and LSV's advice in this podcast, but I haven't been cubing anywhere near as long as they have. I'm very interested to hear the perspectives of some of the more experienced cube drafters/managers here are, and what advice they would give to a Magic player going to their first cube draft.
Like you say, I don't agree with everything they all say, but I would be more surprised if I did as I feel cube is one of those places where opinions on cards can vastly change dependent on the cube/who you're playing with/etc. There isn't one cuber where I come close to even agreeing 90% on with cube philosophy, and I think that's a good thing since preference of style is super prevalent in cube.
When I disagree with someone, I try to think about *why* I'm disagreeing with them and determine whether it's actually a matter of opinion or if they're looking at the cards from a different angle than me. I don't fully agree on the aggro point of view, but I can see how non-red decks have less success than red decks on average since they all can't have anywhere close to the reach a red ago deck can provide. I think a more experienced cuber can make a solid, non-red aggressive strategy, but it might be hard for someone newer not to end up in a more mid-range build from a cubing point of view.
Either way, the more publicity for cube the better, and I'm happy two of the most prominent voices in the community are fully invested into the format. And that's one thing I 100% agree on: Cube is the best format in magic!
They were clear that they were using the Magic Online Cube as the basis. Honestly that's the cube most people draft due to it's availability and otherwise it's impossible to talk about another cube without a bunch of if/and/but clauses because most cubes differ in contents from one another.
The Magic online (vintage) cube supports/favours combo (even storm) a lot better than most cubes. With that cube as the base line I agreed with their advice. Though personally I'm happy to draft an aggressive White Deck if I get Armageddon.
Until the latest iteration even the Legacy cube online included a lot of signets which most cubes don't in order to preserve the sanctity of green or whatever.
That gives players a good baseline but most cubes I see (including the MTGO Legacy cube) tend to be A LOT more midrange friendly and are more stingy on the fast mana. Or as Brian Wong would say "Mono Fair.Dec" is live. Swords are usually some of the best cards in most cubes compared to their ranking of solid/good in the MTGO Vintage/Holiday cube.
MTGO is largely long term enfranchised competitive players and the vintage cube list caters for that, it's also only available for a fraction of the year. They enjoy or will put up with different things than most and you see that played out by R&D who have skewed recent standard environments towards a lot more mid range. I don't blame cube designers moving away from the Vintage Cube and towards a more "fair" and interactive environment in order to maintain a decent pool of players.
LSV calling it his favourite format is a good quote to run out during the sales pitch to potential new cubers.
This episode of Marshall Sutcliffe and Luis Scott-Vargas' retail limited podcast strategy discusses their strategy tips for new cube drafters. It's actually from two weeks ago, but podcasts and strategy advice geared towards cube drafters as opposed to cube designers are something we can definitely use more of IMHO, and I haven't seen anyone post about it yet. It's definitely still worth a listen if you haven't heard it yet. After a brief discussion of what cube is, why they think it's the best format in Magic, and their experience with cube (LSV's been building and drafting cubes since 2003!) they discuss how people who aren't familiar with cube drafts can win more. I don't agree with all of the advice here, but it's still one of the most comprehensive cube drafting strategy guides I've come across that's geared towards inexperienced cube drafters.
The relevant parts of the podcast are over an hour long, so here are the highlights of Marshall and LSV's advice:
Know the cube and what the best cards are in it. There are a lot of different kinds of cubes out there, including C/Ubes, themed cubes, powered, unpowered, and even mono-colored cubes. Checking out the list before you start drafting it will help you do better, you'll know what the best cards are that you should watch for and what kinds of archetypes are supported. The remainder of their advice applies to what most MTGS users would consider a standard powered or unpowered list.
Cards to prioritize during draft:
In powered cubes, just take any of the Power 9 or fast manafacts like Mana Crypt or Sol Ring if you see them.
Top cards in unpowered cubes include Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Upheaval, Treachery, Opposition, and Vedalken Shackles.
Mana rocks like the Signets, being able to cast your most powerful spells a turn faster is hard to underrate.
Most cube drafters should prioritize cheap, interactive cards and cantrips higher. There is no shortage of 4CMC+ finishers in cube, and you don't need very many in your deck. Cheap spot removal, counterspells, and cantrips will help smooth out your draws and disrupt your opponents' plans, and their decks will have no shortage of bombs either.
Green mana accelerants are the next best ramp after fast manafacts. Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary is head and shoulders above the best, but 1CMC elves are also fantastic for casting your broken cube cards a turn faster than your opponent.
Mana-fixing lands. You should never be short on playable spells in a cube draft, so it pays to use as many of your picks as you can on lands to help smooth out your mana so you can cast your spells on time. Losing a turn to color-screw can get you run over in cube.
Halves of broken combos like Time Vault, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Splinter Twin, Tinker, and Natural Order are worth picking highly and building around.
The best decks to draft:
Control decks are reliably strong with 2-3 big finishers, 3-5 3+CMC card draw spells plus a bunch of cheap interactive spells. Mana rocks are also great in these builds if you can get them, but not necessary. These decks are a good shell for the kinds of "broken" combos mentioned above.
Mono-red aggro when open is the only aggro deck that has enough consistency to be viable in most cubes. Prioritize Sulfuric Vortex, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, as many 2-power 1-drop creatures as you can get your hands on, and 4CMC finishers should be at the top of your curve.
Mono-green/Simic ramp decks filled with cheap mana accelerants, card draw, 6+CMC finishers, and maybe some splashable blue counterspells.
Opposition decks. They called this a "one card deck", and unfortunately didn't really clarify what you need to make a good Opposition deck work, but I assume they mean Opposition plus token generators.
Decks to avoid:
Reanimator decks are difficult to draft and too inconsistent for someone who is new to cube drafting, or even new to drafting a particular cube. Reanimation can be a good subtheme in a Dimir-based control deck, but they're better off avoided by less experienced cube drafters.
Aggro strategies other than mono-red are not consistent enough to be competitive in most cubes. While white weenie and suicide black based aggro strategies are supported in many cubes, typically the payoff just isn't there. Even red based aggro decks splashing another color tend to have some of the worst win rates on MTGO-based cubes. They just don't hold up against "broken" strategies supported by the typical cube. Marshall disagrees with LSV on this one somewhat, because one of his pet cube decks is Dimir tempo full of the black one drops that no one else seems to want plus cheap spot removal, counters, and cantrips.
Golgari "The Rock"-style midrange decks and 4-5 color "Goodstuff.dec" midrange strategies. These decks tend to be too slow and unfocused to compete with the decks of experienced cube drafters who can take advantage of the synergies available in cube. LSV specifically calls out Thrun, the Last Troll as the poster child of terrible midrange decks, and says it's a card that should never be main-decked in a cube draft, but it's the kind of card that looks attractive to players who don't have a proper plan during their draft or deckbuilding.
Their final advice is to have a plan while you're drafting and building your deck to take advantage of the powerful synergies and interactions available in cube drafts.
Again, I don't agree with all of Marshall and LSV's advice in this podcast, but I haven't been cubing anywhere near as long as they have. I'm very interested to hear the perspectives of some of the more experienced cube drafters/managers here are, and what advice they would give to a Magic player going to their first cube draft.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
When I disagree with someone, I try to think about *why* I'm disagreeing with them and determine whether it's actually a matter of opinion or if they're looking at the cards from a different angle than me. I don't fully agree on the aggro point of view, but I can see how non-red decks have less success than red decks on average since they all can't have anywhere close to the reach a red ago deck can provide. I think a more experienced cuber can make a solid, non-red aggressive strategy, but it might be hard for someone newer not to end up in a more mid-range build from a cubing point of view.
Either way, the more publicity for cube the better, and I'm happy two of the most prominent voices in the community are fully invested into the format. And that's one thing I 100% agree on: Cube is the best format in magic!
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
The Magic online (vintage) cube supports/favours combo (even storm) a lot better than most cubes. With that cube as the base line I agreed with their advice. Though personally I'm happy to draft an aggressive White Deck if I get Armageddon.
Until the latest iteration even the Legacy cube online included a lot of signets which most cubes don't in order to preserve the sanctity of green or whatever.
That gives players a good baseline but most cubes I see (including the MTGO Legacy cube) tend to be A LOT more midrange friendly and are more stingy on the fast mana. Or as Brian Wong would say "Mono Fair.Dec" is live. Swords are usually some of the best cards in most cubes compared to their ranking of solid/good in the MTGO Vintage/Holiday cube.
MTGO is largely long term enfranchised competitive players and the vintage cube list caters for that, it's also only available for a fraction of the year. They enjoy or will put up with different things than most and you see that played out by R&D who have skewed recent standard environments towards a lot more mid range. I don't blame cube designers moving away from the Vintage Cube and towards a more "fair" and interactive environment in order to maintain a decent pool of players.
LSV calling it his favourite format is a good quote to run out during the sales pitch to potential new cubers.