For 3-mana, you get a land, a constant 4/4 threat, and a planeswalker body that will give you a Coiling Oracle trigger every turn. That's just ridiculous value.
I say this without having tested her so, again, take my opinion for what it is - an opinion. But I think this is a slightly hyperbolic BCS evaluation. Seven lands is A LOT of lands to have in play, even for a green deck. It's not impossible and I'm sure that green decks especially will reach seven mana far more often than other decks, but it's still a hefty price. So, really, for three mana, you get a basic Forest and a vanilla 2/2. And then - if you the game goes long enough for you to reach seven actual lands in play - you get a pretty good planeswalker body.
I guess I'll shut up about it and maybe give it a test run if I can get a 2-man cube in this week.
Um, did you even read the quote that this was a response to, or are you just Nissa bashing at every opportunity for the fun of it? The quoted description is that of a Nissa when she does flip. Talking specifically about what to expect from her BCS when it occurs.
Um, did you even read the quote that this was a response to, or are you just Nissa bashing at every opportunity for the fun of it? The quoted description is that of a Nissa when she does flip. Talking specifically about what to expect from her BCS when it occurs.
I read it, but apparently didn't really comprehend it until I went back and reread it. Apologies. I guess I was overcome with Nerd Rage. Again, apologies for my unwarranted Nissa bashing.
I do still think she'll have a hard time flipping, but I think I might try to force her into some decks this week. There are enough people whose opinions I value highly saying they were wrong after having tested her that I feel like I need to do the same before I can truly say she's terrible.
i love the responses bashing Nissa that haven't even tried her yet. She is WAY better than she looks when you actually play her.
thanks for another outstanding review. Looks like I have a lot of rares/mythics to order...my only complaint about this set as it is fantastic at adding new types of cards to each color!
A lot of cards are evaluated based on theorycrafting and speculation, and it's generally a safe practice considering how well cube managers understand their own formats. But even if there are 95% of the cards that can be properly analyzed on paper, there will always be cards you have to see in action to appreciate. She was one of those cards for me. I thought she was going to be terrible until I started to play her. Her WCS/ACS are perfectly reasonable plays, and when she's on, she's great and she's important.
Like I mentioned earlier, seeing Nissa in action has raised my estimation of Civic Wayfinder. Using Wayfinder as an example to diminish Nissa's value was the wrong approach entirely, I've found.
I don't understand the use of hyperbole. These descriptions of nissa indicate that you're able to activate her PW abilities multiple times in the same turn.
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I've always wanted a 2/2 farhaven elf thats what all this Nissa talk is reminding me of. :/.
Nissa's never been exciting here, just a solid role player. She trades/chumps and makes sure I hit the next point in my curve. I'm not sold on its inclusion in every list forever and ever, but she is serviceable for now.
I don't understand the use of hyperbole. These descriptions of nissa indicate that you're able to activate her PW abilities multiple times in the same turn.
No hyperbole intended. Let me clarify: You play her and get your forest. You flip her and get your 4/4 and your "Coiling Oracle Coercive Portal" 'walker body. If they deal with the creature, you can skip on drawing every couple turns or so to replace it. Better?
Since the cards the 'walker body reminds me of (Arena, Portal, etc) don't draw you a card until your next turn, saying "forest, 4/4 and Portal for 2G" felt apt, since you don't have to activate her multiple times in the same turn to get that specific line. Sorry if there was any confusion.
I've always wanted a 2/2 farhaven elf thats what all this Nissa talk is reminding me of. :/.
Nissa's never been exciting here, just a solid role player. She trades/chumps and makes sure I hit the next point in my curve. I'm not sold on its inclusion in every list forever and ever, but she is serviceable for now.
And if you read my review, I said the same thing. I ranked her as a 540 card with the potential to maybe be smaller, and said that she's a sleeper because most people underestimate her.
And I agree with you. She's just a solid creature. I'll take a forest and a 2/2 for 2G as a ACS/ACS if it means I can have a cheap, efficient anti-control card for my tough matchups.
A little late to the party, but wanted to say thank you for another fantastic set review for cube!! These have been really helpful to me in evaluating cards for my cube. Thanks!
A little late to the party, but wanted to say thank you for another fantastic set review for cube!! These have been really helpful to me in evaluating cards for my cube. Thanks!
I've always wanted a 2/2 farhaven elf thats what all this Nissa talk is reminding me of. :/.
Nissa's never been exciting here, just a solid role player. She trades/chumps and makes sure I hit the next point in my curve. I'm not sold on its inclusion in every list forever and ever, but she is serviceable for now.
And if you read my review, I said the same thing. I ranked her as a 540 card with the potential to maybe be smaller, and said that she's a sleeper because most people underestimate her.
And I agree with you. She's just a solid creature. I'll take a forest and a 2/2 for 2G as a ACS/ACS if it means I can have a cheap, efficient anti-control card for my tough matchups.
[/quote]
Was just seconding you.
On the Prime time debate, he's good if you support super ramp, but he's just... the best option you have if you don't support super ramp.
I've also really really cooled on Priest of the blood rite. It might be the most efficient black 5 drop we've ever gotten, and it combos well with a lot of cards, but it still isn't a WOW 5 drop. This doesn't compete with other color's 5 drop creatures, Baneslayer Angel, Kalonian Hydra, Thundermaw hellkite. I don't even like Siege-gang commander that much, but he's better than Priest. I still feel like I'd rather just have 4 and 6 drops in black, this card doesn't compete with Abyssal persecutor or Massacre wurm.
It's been WAY better than Abyssal Persecutor or Massacre Wurm for us. It might not have Baneslayer stats, but it's infinitely more abusable. It's more like black's Cloudgoat Ranger variant than anything else. It doesn't have to be a core 360 staple or anything, but he's definitely a powerful card.
I guess I have a very high opinion of massacre wurm. I wouldn't have 2 black 6 drops in 360 if massacre wurm and grave titan both weren't so great. Massacre wurm is pretty much an autowin against aggro and tokens in powered due to fast mana and how many times his ability is plague wind + sorins vengeance. (with how much these two archetypes have been pushed in other cubes lately I'd suggest giving the wurm another trial in most cubes)
I like your review as always. It is always influential on card decisions.
A small thing though - Woodland Bellower is not playable in large cubes because it suffers from a sharp decrease in target quality. Yes, fetching a Tarmogoyf is just fine, but when what you can get is Rattleclaw Mystic, Ohran Viper or Lotus Cobra for average performance, it is not worth six mana. As much as I want another green six drop, I think this card requires a specific cube configuration to be worth it at any size.
That could very well be the case. But with larger cubes noticing the hole in green's curve even more than small cubes, the cube may want a 2nd green 6-drop more than it's concerned about its shortcomings.
Maybe. Even in decks that had plenty of ways to remove it, I always just wanted a different 4-drop that didn't say "you can't win" on it. I'd rather just use my removal on my opponent's creatures and kill with a different threat than have a bigger threat and be forced to kill my own guy before I can win. But that's just me...
I love abyssal persecutor! it slots so nicely into WB control decks (think wraths, gftt, stp/pte, etc.) as a strong win condition. the virtue of the WB control deck is that its a strong deck, and an early persecutor just really locks it in.
I've got to run a couple cube drafts since my ORI update and fwiw Woodland Bellower exceeded my expectations and Priest of the Bloodrite was a solid as predicted.
Um, did you even read the quote that this was a response to, or are you just Nissa bashing at every opportunity for the fun of it? The quoted description is that of a Nissa when she does flip. Talking specifically about what to expect from her BCS when it occurs.
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I read it, but apparently didn't really comprehend it until I went back and reread it. Apologies. I guess I was overcome with Nerd Rage. Again, apologies for my unwarranted Nissa bashing.
I do still think she'll have a hard time flipping, but I think I might try to force her into some decks this week. There are enough people whose opinions I value highly saying they were wrong after having tested her that I feel like I need to do the same before I can truly say she's terrible.
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thanks for another outstanding review. Looks like I have a lot of rares/mythics to order...my only complaint about this set as it is fantastic at adding new types of cards to each color!
Like I mentioned earlier, seeing Nissa in action has raised my estimation of Civic Wayfinder. Using Wayfinder as an example to diminish Nissa's value was the wrong approach entirely, I've found.
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Nissa's never been exciting here, just a solid role player. She trades/chumps and makes sure I hit the next point in my curve. I'm not sold on its inclusion in every list forever and ever, but she is serviceable for now.
thats my cube
No hyperbole intended. Let me clarify: You play her and get your forest. You flip her and get your 4/4 and your "Coiling Oracle Coercive Portal" 'walker body. If they deal with the creature, you can skip on drawing every couple turns or so to replace it. Better?
Since the cards the 'walker body reminds me of (Arena, Portal, etc) don't draw you a card until your next turn, saying "forest, 4/4 and Portal for 2G" felt apt, since you don't have to activate her multiple times in the same turn to get that specific line. Sorry if there was any confusion.
And if you read my review, I said the same thing. I ranked her as a 540 card with the potential to maybe be smaller, and said that she's a sleeper because most people underestimate her.
And I agree with you. She's just a solid creature. I'll take a forest and a 2/2 for 2G as a ACS/ACS if it means I can have a cheap, efficient anti-control card for my tough matchups.
Let me know how she does. I've been happy with her Civic Wayfinder impression, and she's been good in games that go long.
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And if you read my review, I said the same thing. I ranked her as a 540 card with the potential to maybe be smaller, and said that she's a sleeper because most people underestimate her.
And I agree with you. She's just a solid creature. I'll take a forest and a 2/2 for 2G as a ACS/ACS if it means I can have a cheap, efficient anti-control card for my tough matchups.
[/quote]
Was just seconding you.
On the Prime time debate, he's good if you support super ramp, but he's just... the best option you have if you don't support super ramp.
I've also really really cooled on Priest of the blood rite. It might be the most efficient black 5 drop we've ever gotten, and it combos well with a lot of cards, but it still isn't a WOW 5 drop. This doesn't compete with other color's 5 drop creatures, Baneslayer Angel, Kalonian Hydra, Thundermaw hellkite. I don't even like Siege-gang commander that much, but he's better than Priest. I still feel like I'd rather just have 4 and 6 drops in black, this card doesn't compete with Abyssal persecutor or Massacre wurm.
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A small thing though - Woodland Bellower is not playable in large cubes because it suffers from a sharp decrease in target quality. Yes, fetching a Tarmogoyf is just fine, but when what you can get is Rattleclaw Mystic, Ohran Viper or Lotus Cobra for average performance, it is not worth six mana. As much as I want another green six drop, I think this card requires a specific cube configuration to be worth it at any size.
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