" that doesn't do anything by itself or for itself. "
It makes itself indestructible. I'm confused about this statement, I think a 4/3 is pretty lame for 2GG personally when thrun and such are running around, but it does protect itself.
Thanks for the (p)review, good read. I second the idea of year in review kind of article, which could be based on these preview articles. Would be very interesting and complimentary to these. It could also show areas of improvement for us as a community on rating cards properly.
I think one of the nifty statistics gurus could go through your cube, find all of the cards you have kept(or god forbid missed) and just lay them out in a post. It would certainly take a lot of the burden off of you(even if it is not as amazeballs). Then the forum could do the heavy lifting and debating about the the cards that dropped or surprised. Many may be obvious, then you can swoop in with commentary as necessary/time permits.
Instead of a set review posthumously it would be a review of your preview and be very interesting. It could get at why we are attracted to cards that fail or what things we tend to miss. I think a set review looking back is a little boring as we have discused many of the cards to death in SCDs.
I get the idea of reviweing the previews, but again, that's not really the intent of these articles. They do the same thing in sports by analyzing and "redoing" draft classes (discussing hits, misses and players that were over/undervalued), and it doesn't necessarily produce valuable information.
Thanks for the review as always. I agree with the vast majority of it (shocking, I know) and will be running 8 of your top 9. I'm skipping Ugin due to the inability to cheat him in. If I ever get a Eureka, I may change my mind. Great review, though.
Ya, his playability depends entirely on if you're supporting super ramp or not. If you play the big mana artifact and green decks (with Channel and Eureka and stuff) he has a couple decks he can go in and be awesome. If not, he's just too expensive to cast.
great (p)review as usual! cant really disagree with anything in the top 10. Likely adding everything in the top 10 with the only one wavering being Brutal hoardchief.
like a few other cubers I took the majority of the green aggro out of my cube since it was just completely unplayed.
maybe with warden of the first tree, i will try to bring that archetype back. Still wishing for 2/1 for G with no drawback
always nice to have a few aggro cards at the top of the list!
Just notice that Frost Walker didn't make the list. What are your thoughts on that? I thought it's a great card that make it even in 360 if you choose to support aggro in blue.
I believe it is if you support blue aggro. Please lisy the critical mass of cards require for blue aggro at 360 that doesn't include frost walker if you believe otherwise. There simply isn't much of them.
Blue tempo decks are amazing in my cube without aggro or tempo-exclusive support cards. I don't think blue needs cards like that for the deck to be successful. And even if I was including cards that are specific to that deck, blue tempo decks are more interested in flash, evasion and utility than they are about the power/cost ratio of their threats.
I believe it is if you support blue aggro. Please lisy the critical mass of cards require for blue aggro at 360 that doesn't include frost walker if you believe otherwise. There simply isn't much of them.
It's true that I haven't actually tried blue aggro at 360. However, in order to try that, I would have to cut some much more objectively powerful cards that blue decks tend to want.
I don't think we're at the point yet where a blue aggro deck would be competitive in a 360 environment. There may be enough support (critical mass) for it to actually be a deck, but I don't think it would be competitive with what the other decks at 360 are doing.
But it's true, I haven't tested it, so people reading this thread should definitely defer to people who have tested it.
Blue tempo decks are amazing in my cube without aggro or tempo-exclusive support cards. I don't think blue needs cards like that for the deck to be successful. And even if I was including cards that are specific to that deck, blue tempo decks are more interested in flash, evasion and utility than they are about the power/cost ratio of their threats.
I agree with this for the most part. I do think blue aggro/tempo is becoming more likely.
-----------------------
Still on discussion:
Even if I were trying to put a blue aggro/tempo deck together and make it a permanent mainstay, I still don't think I would want this card. It dies to everything.
Just notice that Frost Walker didn't make the list. What are your thoughts on that? I thought it's a great card that make it even in 360 if you choose to support aggro in blue.
It's on my radar as a possible include in Coralhelm Commander's slot. Both have their pros and cons in the aggressive blue decks. It would be better as a 3/1 with some sort of evasion for sure.
Even if I were trying to put a blue aggro/tempo deck together and make it a permanent mainstay, I still don't think I would want this card. It dies to everything.
Blue tempo already has it. It's already a winning deck. It doesn't need cards like that to compete, so I don't see a reason to add them.
Maybe to add more of them the same way we add more to other already winning archetypes. There's not a whole lot of options in the 2-drop slot for aggressive blue. On an aggro note, if this were any other colour, I'd have no problem including it already.
At the cost of what? When we reinforce other winning archetypes we typically upgrade cards in a similar vein. With Frost Walker, the only cuts would take tools away from other decks that need them. The point is that the deck wins without aggro-exclusive support, so why would I want to cut universally playable cards for narrow cards, particularly when they're not even that good?
At the cost of what? When we reinforce other winning archetypes we typically upgrade cards in a similar vein. With Frost Walker, the only cuts would take tools away from other decks that need them. The point is that the deck wins without aggro-exclusive support, so why would I want to cut universally playable cards for narrow cards, particularly when they're not even that good?
I won't disagree that it is cutting universally playable cards for narrow cards. But I do think it's not taking tools from decks that need them. Blue aggro/tempo have more "need" this creature much more than midrange/control deck in blue need any cards because majority of the blue card are already usable in those decks. It's almost like a 45/50 support already minimum. That's why I don't mind giving it a bit more love.
Btw, @wtwlf123 I'm very sorry for getting this thread sidetracked. I think this is a good argument to be having, but maybe we should move the argument to the proper discussion thread more than fill your article thread with (mostly) unrelated comment.
Blue aggro/tempo have more "need" this creature much more than midrange/control deck in blue need any cards because majority of the blue card are already usable in those decks.
But that's the beauty of blue tempo. It's a great deck without running bad creatures like this.
What I Don't Like: The only real strikes against the card are the fragility against instant-speed removal and the competition at the 5cc green slot, which is really deep and robust.
It isn't particularly fragile against spot removal. You can always sacrifice him, netting you at least a manifested 2/2. If you played him in your first main phase, you may also get to make a favorable attack afterwards. In regard of fragility it's better than Wolfir Silverheart and Kalonian Hydra, and not much worse than Thragtusk. (I'm not saying that it's overall better, at least not than the Hydra or 'tusk).
It isn't particularly fragile against spot removal. You can always sacrifice him, netting you at least a manifested 2/2. If you played him in your first main phase, you may also get to make a favorable attack afterwards. In regard of fragility it's better than Wolfir Silverheart and Kalonian Hydra, and not much worse than Thragtusk. (I'm not saying that it's overall better, at least not than the Hydra or 'tusk).
Sacking him does not give you a manifested card, as he gives that ability to all creatures in play (and he'll already be in your graveyard at that point).
It's still a strong card, just not *that* strong.
Personally, I'd swap Mardu Woe-Reaper and Warden of the First Tree. Yes, Warden is really, really good, but you have to remember he's effectively a Gold card. He's a gold card playable in two color combinations, but that still means that there's two color combinations (just looking at two-color pairings with Green) that he's unplayable in. The Woe-Reaper is therefore playable in twice as many aggressive decks, and is arguably the second or third best white Savannah Lions out there (Solider of the Pantheon > This ~= Isamaru, Hound of Konda > The Rest). You won't always get an exile and a life on turn one, but you almost always will later in the game, and it can trigger off of a decent number of random dudes (including Bloodsoaked Champion and Reassembling Skeleton REPEATEDLY) for incremental value.
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It makes itself indestructible. I'm confused about this statement, I think a 4/3 is pretty lame for 2GG personally when thrun and such are running around, but it does protect itself.
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Instead of a set review posthumously it would be a review of your preview and be very interesting. It could get at why we are attracted to cards that fail or what things we tend to miss. I think a set review looking back is a little boring as we have discused many of the cards to death in SCDs.
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like a few other cubers I took the majority of the green aggro out of my cube since it was just completely unplayed.
maybe with warden of the first tree, i will try to bring that archetype back. Still wishing for 2/1 for G with no drawback
always nice to have a few aggro cards at the top of the list!
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It's true that I haven't actually tried blue aggro at 360. However, in order to try that, I would have to cut some much more objectively powerful cards that blue decks tend to want.
I don't think we're at the point yet where a blue aggro deck would be competitive in a 360 environment. There may be enough support (critical mass) for it to actually be a deck, but I don't think it would be competitive with what the other decks at 360 are doing.
But it's true, I haven't tested it, so people reading this thread should definitely defer to people who have tested it.
I agree with this for the most part. I do think blue aggro/tempo is becoming more likely.
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Still on discussion:
Even if I were trying to put a blue aggro/tempo deck together and make it a permanent mainstay, I still don't think I would want this card. It dies to everything.
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It's on my radar as a possible include in Coralhelm Commander's slot. Both have their pros and cons in the aggressive blue decks. It would be better as a 3/1 with some sort of evasion for sure.
Most 2-drops already do though right?
Maybe to add more of them the same way we add more to other already winning archetypes. There's not a whole lot of options in the 2-drop slot for aggressive blue. On an aggro note, if this were any other colour, I'd have no problem including it already.
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I'm not talking about the thing getting Doom Bladed, I'm talking about it getting tapped by an Icy Manipulator or blocked by a 1/1.
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I won't disagree that it is cutting universally playable cards for narrow cards. But I do think it's not taking tools from decks that need them. Blue aggro/tempo have more "need" this creature much more than midrange/control deck in blue need any cards because majority of the blue card are already usable in those decks. It's almost like a 45/50 support already minimum. That's why I don't mind giving it a bit more love.
Btw, @wtwlf123 I'm very sorry for getting this thread sidetracked. I think this is a good argument to be having, but maybe we should move the argument to the proper discussion thread more than fill your article thread with (mostly) unrelated comment.
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But that's the beauty of blue tempo. It's a great deck without running bad creatures like this.
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A nitpick in support of Whisperwood Elemental:
It isn't particularly fragile against spot removal. You can always sacrifice him, netting you at least a manifested 2/2. If you played him in your first main phase, you may also get to make a favorable attack afterwards. In regard of fragility it's better than Wolfir Silverheart and Kalonian Hydra, and not much worse than Thragtusk. (I'm not saying that it's overall better, at least not than the Hydra or 'tusk).
Sacking him does not give you a manifested card, as he gives that ability to all creatures in play (and he'll already be in your graveyard at that point).
It's still a strong card, just not *that* strong.
Personally, I'd swap Mardu Woe-Reaper and Warden of the First Tree. Yes, Warden is really, really good, but you have to remember he's effectively a Gold card. He's a gold card playable in two color combinations, but that still means that there's two color combinations (just looking at two-color pairings with Green) that he's unplayable in. The Woe-Reaper is therefore playable in twice as many aggressive decks, and is arguably the second or third best white Savannah Lions out there (Solider of the Pantheon > This ~= Isamaru, Hound of Konda > The Rest). You won't always get an exile and a life on turn one, but you almost always will later in the game, and it can trigger off of a decent number of random dudes (including Bloodsoaked Champion and Reassembling Skeleton REPEATEDLY) for incremental value.
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You don't get a manifest trigger from the Elemental itself, so it still gets wiped with no guaranteed value against instant-speed spot removal.
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