HAHAH this review. Casual players should not claim to know what "good cards" are, that's why you're casual, right?
Why not share your top 10 cube cards from BNG, if you don't agree with a poster's rating?
@DerBK: I'm playing Deglamer and Torch Fiend, and I think others are running them too, so having those functional reprints mentioned somewhere seems correct. I think Torch Fiend and RR are better than Kami, although I might include one of them and Kami for variety's sake.
I always wait to finalize cuts/additions until I've read your set review. Though I don't always agree with your picks, concise, articulate arguments on behalf of underconsidered cards are always appreciated.
I'm thinking about cutting the vandal and doubling up with torch fiend instead. In scenarios where I'm not worried about an artifact I have 1 2/1 for 1R instead of a 2/2 for 2R. I also really like the fact that blowing up artifacts is optional with the fiends and not mandatory as it is with the Vandal (could have to hold it back if only you have an artifact in play). Just having one on the board can be a great deterrent and force them to use removal even earlier on your 2 drops.
Thoughts?
Also, great list. I pretty much agree except I really don't care for Pain Seer. As someone else said in another thread, it is a great time to buy other cube pieces we may need.
I like the Vandal more. You pay the same amount of mana before the artifact disappears, but it's more splashable and you get the body and the shatter, instead of one or the other.
Honestly, I don't care much for the Seer either. The Oreo King is the only card I really thought was gonna be good enough in the long run, but I made a top 20 anyways, to stick with tradition.
Me too. I like Sarkhan a little better, but both are great and work well together. I don't understand the lack of appreciation for Sarkhan; cubeable anthem, threaten and fires effects are all rare, and he's not only all three at once, but also has one of the easiest and best ultimates.
Sarkhan brings a lot of unique abilities to the cube, and I feel like I'd be losing a lot of functionality with him gone.
Sarkhan has felt good whenever he's been drafted, but he always seems to underperform. Against aggro, he's basically a blank. Against creature decks, he can help bust a board stall for a turn or two, but frequently dies on the swing back. Control can occasionally have problems, but they usually find some way to deal with him and often leave him stranded on an empty board.
As I ramp up Fires support, I suspect he'll get better. But right now, he's at the bottom of my Gruul section.
I like him more than the Reveler, actually. He seems like he should be bad on paper, but he goes ultimate quite often, and sets up quite a few game-winning plays with his various abilities.
I'm interested in #1, #4, and #8 for my 360 whatever that's worth. I would think of those as a 1, 2, and 3. If only for the reason that I'm 100% certain that none of the other card in this set will get into my 360. Reckless Reveler will be a great card from what I can tell from my experience with his father in my cube.
Well of course, the order for each player could be different. Different cubes with different focusses will order things around in their own way. But I wouldn't play Torch Fiend in my 360, so I can't agree with #8 moving up to the #3 slot.
I have to agree with Goodking. Herald of Torment might be a bit underrated. I like getting a card that slots into multiple points on the curve. I don't agree with Archetype of Endurance, as it's mostly just the latest role-player in a long line, among others Guttersnipe, Mindsparker, Pyrewild Shaman and Splatter Thug all vying for the same spot.
Happy to see Mogis in the top 10 though. I'm genuinely curious to see how he plays out.
Also interesting that I've seen very little discussion on the new scrylands. I like the untapped lands like Adarkar Wastes and Seachrome Coast a lot better since Azorius tempo is a thing and holding up counter mana on turns 1-3 is also a thing. That leaves lands like the filter, karoo and tapland to compete against.
That's why I excluded the Endurance dude from the list. A lot of folks hate red's 3cc section, but I think it's pretty good.
Well, the "top 10" doesn't mean a ton for this particular set review, because a lot of the evaluations are pretty generous. Creating a top 5 list would've been really boring, lol. But Mogis is a cool card. In a deck with enough mana symbols to threaten his activating, I think he might be good enough. Plus, I dislike most of the other Rakdos options anyways, so I'd be more willing than most to test him out.
There's little discussion on the scryland for that reason. There's a lot of good land options for the friendly pairs.
Mogis is an interesting card on this list. I'm running six per guild, so he's a card on my radar. I'm not sure I would want him more than Blightning or Spike Jester, though.
At 555, I'll likely be testing the top six cards here.
I like Jester more than him too, but I'd want to play them together.
Thank you once again, for this very useful reference for busy people unable to test new cards regularly.
I guess, ultimately, the only cards to add to my 360 powered cube would be kiora (not sure whether to cut sky-swallower or trygon predator) and king leo-nidas.
Happy to hear it was useful to you. There isn't much for tight powered cubes in this set, to be sure.
HAHAH this review. Casual players should not claim to know what "good cards" are, that's why you're casual, right?
Absolutely. That's why this review only applies to what's good for the cube. I make no attempt to evaluate how good cards will be for the more competitive formats.
Also, there's got to be a more constructive way to communicate with your fellow posters, right? Care to be constructive, or just stopping by to troll, trash and not contribute anything of value?
Many cubers take their casual format very serious. The evaluation of wtwlf is pretty spot on for cube cardpools and metagames. This card evaluation may not mean much for constructed players, since they play with a different cardpool and metagame. Why do you even bother to comment, since you are obviously not interested in the best mtg format ever :rolleyes::D
Ya, of course it's only intended to discuss cube card inclusions, and even then, it's mostly for fun and to generate good discussion. Not everybody has to appreciate it. My reviews get trashed on other boards and I couldn't care less. Everybody has their own idea about what makes cubing best for them, and if my opinions don't gel with your cube maxim, that's cool.
Good write-up, very fun to read like everytime. I usually agree with your Top 20 for the most part, but i found a couple of things i don't quite agree with this time, mostly small stuff. For discussion's sake, here are a couple notes as they came to mind while reading your Preview:
- Satyr Firedancer: I'd have this guy way up, probably at spot #4 behind your #1-3, which i agree with. The creature could certainly make an impact, much more than can be said from various other stuff you mention like the functional reprints of cards that nobody runs. Reading what you wrote about the Firedancer, I guess this is more a difference in philosophy concerning such narrow cards rather than one in our evaluation fo the card. I don't think that supporting archetypes is only for large cubes. I don't see a reason at all that would hinder anyone from supporting the UR spell deck in 360 cards.
- Xenagos: I'd have him higher up, but i will admit that i really like the Fires deck.
- Drown in Sorrow: Would be at the bottom of my list. It's a servicable card that is outclassed by too many other cards. Will see close to no play, unlike some of the cards you rank below it.
- Unravel the Ether: Same goes for this card. Sure, it's fine and i could even see running it over Naturalize, but it's a functional reprint of a card that sees no play.
- Reckless Reveler: Same thing, except that it's even outclassed by Hearth Kami, leaving pretty much no reason to include it ever.
- Searing Blood: I think this is considerably worse than Searing Blaze, to the point where it becomes unplayable. It's worse at killing creatures and the trigger to hit players is also harder to get since it relies on stuff of your opponent. Being worse as creature burn AND worse as player burn than Searing Blaze makes this card completely unattractive for me. I would have this at the bottom of the list, because the set is shallow enough that the card at least merits a few words.
- Pain Seer: This is just a worse Ophidian, except when played on curve against an empty board. Sideboard material against control maybe, and an iffy one to boot. I think it's unplayable.
Firedancer has a poor body and a rough WCS. Can't see playing it in smaller lists.
Xenagos can be really bad when he's bad; I wasn't comfortable moving him up.
Drown - A better Infest is still better than the majority of the cards in this set. It probably should've been ranked higher, if anything.
Unravel is unexciting, but it has a better chance of being included in larger lists than most of the other crap from this set.
Ditto for Reveler. Kami doesn't outclass it, the effects are different. I could see unpowered cubes running this over the Kami and in addition to the Fiend way before a lot of other junk. A lot of cubes play Fiend, BTW.
Pain Seer has more power and costs less mana than Ophidian, I think that's a really disingenuous evaluation of him.
..........
Do you still have a cube list together? I'd be interested to see what a current cube list of yours would look like.
Why not share your top 10 cube cards from BNG, if you don't agree with a poster's rating?
@DerBK: I'm playing Deglamer and Torch Fiend, and I think others are running them too, so having those functional reprints mentioned somewhere seems correct. I think Torch Fiend and RR are better than Kami, although I might include one of them and Kami for variety's sake.
They don't want to share, they want to troll.
And ya, you're not the only one that likes Fiend and Deglamer, which is the main reason I included their buddies on the list. I don't cube either of them, but I could see a lot of other lists being interested.
Agreed! I'd be interested in seeing what you'd currently cube. You post a lot and have a lot of feedback you provide still, so I'm curious what you'd elect to run. Cheers.
As always, great review. When I move down to 450, I want to test your top 4. These were the only card that interested me for cube. The exception is Mogis, which I really, really want to work but know it's not good enough for the top 4 in Rakdos.
You like Astral Conucopia more than I do. It looks way overcosted to me. I'd probably put it around #21 in this set, bumping up the red archetype. I might drop Kiora's follower a place or two. Otherwise, we're in pretty close agreement, which I'm sure comes as an enormous shock.
Dude, I really don't. This whole review, outside of the top 4-5 cards, was basically an overly glowing endorsement of cards I don't really like. The set was barren. Cards #20-6 were basically the turds that floated to the top of the bowl that is BNG.
There's 1 good card. 3-4 others might have some potential. The rest is trash. But like I said before, a top 5 article is really boring, so I included cards that I thought might be fun/interesting even though the chance for them to have cube tenure is close to nil.
There's 1 good card. 3-4 others might have some potential. The rest is trash. But like I said before, a top 5 article is really boring, so I included cards that I thought might be fun/interesting even though the chance for them to have cube tenure is close to nil.
That pretty much sums up BNG, right?
I'm really glad its only one autoinclude so I can catch up with the other cards I am missing. Plus its a card that enables multiple archetypes (tokens, agggro, control) and that is always good for cube.
Upon reading your list What goes through my head is that most of the cards are really subpar for cube. I still appreciate the fact that you stated some positives about the cards. I think there could be reasons why people might include them in their lists.
As ever, a lovely writeup. As ever, I only have one or two disagreements (Herald of Torment). But hey, you guys already took that horse behind the woodshed, so there's no need to rehash. Thanks a bunch for writing this up for posterity's sake. Might be fun to revisit the old writeups sometime during the doldrums.
This set is rather disappointing for cube. Or a real relief, since I don't have to buy that many cards and don't have to make that many cuts. Since I don't draft as often as I used to, the influx of new cards is less important for me.
I do think that I like Blood Scrivener a little bit more than Pain Seer and will pass on the new guy.
That pretty much sums up BNG, right?
I'm really glad its only one autoinclude so I can catch up with the other cards I am missing. Plus its a card that enables multiple archetypes (tokens, agggro, control) and that is always good for cube.
Upon reading your list What goes through my head is that most of the cards are really subpar for cube. I still appreciate the fact that you stated some positives about the cards. I think there could be reasons why people might include them in their lists.
Thanks again for the reviews.
I tried to keep the most positive attitude I could about the cards in this set. It would've been impossible to do a top 20 otherwise.
As ever, a lovely writeup. As ever, I only have one or two disagreements (Herald of Torment). But hey, you guys already took that horse behind the woodshed, so there's no need to rehash. Thanks a bunch for writing this up for posterity's sake. Might be fun to revisit the old writeups sometime during the doldrums.
I've revisited them, but I'm not going to write true reviews for all of them. After all, they're written as previews, and not necessarily for posterity.
This set is rather disappointing for cube. Or a real relief, since I don't have to buy that many cards and don't have to make that many cuts. Since I don't draft as often as I used to, the influx of new cards is less important for me.
I do think that I like Blood Scrivener a little bit more than Pain Seer and will pass on the new guy.
I hear you about the Seer. I will test him out vs Scrivener, but I expect to undo that exchange after a bit.
Preliminary testing is already leaning towards me not including the Spirit at all. It's been a dud so far.
I'll test out Courser and Kiora for a bit, and see how they play in the long run. Neither might make it past the next set update.
Brimaz has been outstanding.
Glad the review was at least a little worthwhile, unlike the set.
As usual, great review. Always look forward to your (P)review after the sets are released. Like everyone else said, a disappointing set, but 3-4 really good cards from a small set aint that awful.
Going to be adding the top 4 cards with a maybe to the Labyrinth and Reckless Reveler at 540.
Probably going to wait till some of drop in price of course!
As usual, great review. Always look forward to your (P)review after the sets are released. Like everyone else said, a disappointing set, but 3-4 really good cards from a small set aint that awful.
Going to be adding the top 4 cards with a maybe to the Labyrinth and Reckless Reveler at 540.
Probably going to wait till some of drop in price of course!
Thanks for the feedback. Glad you enjoy the review! Hope you find some good prices on the cards you add. It'll definitely be something to watch.
Noteworthy that this set just seems weak all round for all the major cube types. As discussed there's only a handful of cards worth looking at for 'traditional' cubes but even the un/commons are fairly uninspiring selection (for Pauper/Peasant). I think the nature of the Theros block limited format takes much of the blame for that (e.g. the Inspire and Heroic mechanics require a lot of in-block support that isn't really viable in cubes). And there don't even seem to be (m)any particularly bomby cards for multiplayer/EDH/type 4 cubes either (although my knowledge of those is fairly limited so I might well have missed something there).
I really does. Despite several block mechanics being weak for the cube, there are still a couple of valuable ones that they're just not pushing into cube validity (yet). But ya, the block mechanics aren't ideal for cube, and that hurts the strength of the set for the cube. Theros was a monster set though, and perhaps the 3rd set from the block can give us more goodies than this one did.
Thanks for another great review! I always stop by to see if I've missed any sleeper cards, but in this case I just confirmed that the set was as disappointing as I thought. Still, a couple of inclusions came out of it, and white could always use another 3 drop!
Thanks for another great review! I always stop by to see if I've missed any sleeper cards, but in this case I just confirmed that the set was as disappointing as I thought. Still, a couple of inclusions came out of it, and white could always use another 3 drop!
Ya, there's a few interesting cards and one great one. I suppose it could always be worse.
Count me among the masses who find this series an excellent starting point for evaluating new sets. In particular, I really like the layout of this particular review with the "what I like/don't like" pieces.
Here's hoping that Brimaz will be a dud in Standard so that his price tag comes down enough for us cubers to afford him.
Thanks all. I write it for you guys. So long as you enjoy reading them, I'll keep writing them. There's a couple other sites/communities that don't appreciate me or my articles, but I guess that comes with the gig. C'est la vie.
Thanks all. I write it for you guys. So long as you enjoy reading them, I'll keep writing them. There's a couple other sites/communities that don't appreciate me or my articles, but I guess that comes with the gig. C'est la vie.
Yeah, its funny how you are such a controversial figure in the cube community. People take this **** way to seriously. We should all just appreciate anyone who generates cube content.
I just like talking about cube, sharing my experiences and gathering info from others. I guess my stances are polarizing and opinions not always welcome, but that's part of the deal. I don't have any issues with anyone out there, but I assure you, there's some pure vitriol and hatred being spat out there about me and the mtgs cube community as a whole. My experiences here have been overwhelmingly positive, I think by and large the contributors here are helpful and diverse, and this community has more constructive cube information available on display than all the other blog/forum cube communities combined. Oh well.
I can't think of anything bad to say about you, wtwlf. "That dude is nice and always provides me with solid advice. But he sure is stubborn!" Yeah that's about all I got.
Why not share your top 10 cube cards from BNG, if you don't agree with a poster's rating?
@DerBK: I'm playing Deglamer and Torch Fiend, and I think others are running them too, so having those functional reprints mentioned somewhere seems correct. I think Torch Fiend and RR are better than Kami, although I might include one of them and Kami for variety's sake.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Glad it was helpful!
I like the Vandal more. You pay the same amount of mana before the artifact disappears, but it's more splashable and you get the body and the shatter, instead of one or the other.
Honestly, I don't care much for the Seer either. The Oreo King is the only card I really thought was gonna be good enough in the long run, but I made a top 20 anyways, to stick with tradition.
Sarkhan brings a lot of unique abilities to the cube, and I feel like I'd be losing a lot of functionality with him gone.
I like him more than the Reveler, actually. He seems like he should be bad on paper, but he goes ultimate quite often, and sets up quite a few game-winning plays with his various abilities.
Also, this.
Well of course, the order for each player could be different. Different cubes with different focusses will order things around in their own way. But I wouldn't play Torch Fiend in my 360, so I can't agree with #8 moving up to the #3 slot.
That's why I excluded the Endurance dude from the list. A lot of folks hate red's 3cc section, but I think it's pretty good.
Well, the "top 10" doesn't mean a ton for this particular set review, because a lot of the evaluations are pretty generous. Creating a top 5 list would've been really boring, lol. But Mogis is a cool card. In a deck with enough mana symbols to threaten his activating, I think he might be good enough. Plus, I dislike most of the other Rakdos options anyways, so I'd be more willing than most to test him out.
There's little discussion on the scryland for that reason. There's a lot of good land options for the friendly pairs.
I like Jester more than him too, but I'd want to play them together.
Happy to hear it was useful to you. There isn't much for tight powered cubes in this set, to be sure.
Absolutely. That's why this review only applies to what's good for the cube. I make no attempt to evaluate how good cards will be for the more competitive formats.
Also, there's got to be a more constructive way to communicate with your fellow posters, right? Care to be constructive, or just stopping by to troll, trash and not contribute anything of value?
Ya, of course it's only intended to discuss cube card inclusions, and even then, it's mostly for fun and to generate good discussion. Not everybody has to appreciate it. My reviews get trashed on other boards and I couldn't care less. Everybody has their own idea about what makes cubing best for them, and if my opinions don't gel with your cube maxim, that's cool.
Firedancer has a poor body and a rough WCS. Can't see playing it in smaller lists.
Xenagos can be really bad when he's bad; I wasn't comfortable moving him up.
Drown - A better Infest is still better than the majority of the cards in this set. It probably should've been ranked higher, if anything.
Unravel is unexciting, but it has a better chance of being included in larger lists than most of the other crap from this set.
Ditto for Reveler. Kami doesn't outclass it, the effects are different. I could see unpowered cubes running this over the Kami and in addition to the Fiend way before a lot of other junk. A lot of cubes play Fiend, BTW.
Pain Seer has more power and costs less mana than Ophidian, I think that's a really disingenuous evaluation of him.
..........
Do you still have a cube list together? I'd be interested to see what a current cube list of yours would look like.
They don't want to share, they want to troll.
And ya, you're not the only one that likes Fiend and Deglamer, which is the main reason I included their buddies on the list. I don't cube either of them, but I could see a lot of other lists being interested.
Thanks for the feedback everybody.
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You like Astral Conucopia more than I do. It looks way overcosted to me. I'd probably put it around #21 in this set, bumping up the red archetype. I might drop Kiora's follower a place or two. Otherwise, we're in pretty close agreement, which I'm sure comes as an enormous shock.
Cheers,
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Dude, I really don't. This whole review, outside of the top 4-5 cards, was basically an overly glowing endorsement of cards I don't really like. The set was barren. Cards #20-6 were basically the turds that floated to the top of the bowl that is BNG.
There's 1 good card. 3-4 others might have some potential. The rest is trash. But like I said before, a top 5 article is really boring, so I included cards that I thought might be fun/interesting even though the chance for them to have cube tenure is close to nil.
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Cheers,
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That pretty much sums up BNG, right?
I'm really glad its only one autoinclude so I can catch up with the other cards I am missing. Plus its a card that enables multiple archetypes (tokens, agggro, control) and that is always good for cube.
Upon reading your list What goes through my head is that most of the cards are really subpar for cube. I still appreciate the fact that you stated some positives about the cards. I think there could be reasons why people might include them in their lists.
Thanks again for the reviews.
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This set is rather disappointing for cube. Or a real relief, since I don't have to buy that many cards and don't have to make that many cuts. Since I don't draft as often as I used to, the influx of new cards is less important for me.
I do think that I like Blood Scrivener a little bit more than Pain Seer and will pass on the new guy.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
That's probably fair.
I tried to keep the most positive attitude I could about the cards in this set. It would've been impossible to do a top 20 otherwise.
Glad it was enjoyable, at least.
I've revisited them, but I'm not going to write true reviews for all of them. After all, they're written as previews, and not necessarily for posterity.
I hear you about the Seer. I will test him out vs Scrivener, but I expect to undo that exchange after a bit.
Preliminary testing is already leaning towards me not including the Spirit at all. It's been a dud so far.
I'll test out Courser and Kiora for a bit, and see how they play in the long run. Neither might make it past the next set update.
Brimaz has been outstanding.
Glad the review was at least a little worthwhile, unlike the set.
I can't say that I blame you.
..........
Thanks for the feedback all.
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Going to be adding the top 4 cards with a maybe to the Labyrinth and Reckless Reveler at 540.
Probably going to wait till some of drop in price of course!
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Thanks for the feedback. Glad you enjoy the review! Hope you find some good prices on the cards you add. It'll definitely be something to watch.
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I really does. Despite several block mechanics being weak for the cube, there are still a couple of valuable ones that they're just not pushing into cube validity (yet). But ya, the block mechanics aren't ideal for cube, and that hurts the strength of the set for the cube. Theros was a monster set though, and perhaps the 3rd set from the block can give us more goodies than this one did.
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Glad you find them helpful! Wish the set brought better news.
Ya, there's a few interesting cards and one great one. I suppose it could always be worse.
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Glad you enjoyed it!
Oh man, that Uril deck OP is woefully out of date!
Let us know how Seer does for you in testing.
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Here's hoping that Brimaz will be a dud in Standard so that his price tag comes down enough for us cubers to afford him.
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Yeah, its funny how you are such a controversial figure in the cube community. People take this **** way to seriously. We should all just appreciate anyone who generates cube content.
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