MTG Salvation

Quote from kingneb

Though this may be more of a statement of how awesome Mana Vault is than how good Venser is.

I had a turn 2 Braids with a couple of two power 1-drops using Black Lotus mana the other night. My opponent had a single forest in play and scooped. I think that both these stories are more a testament to the awesome power of fast mana than anything else.

Quote from porpoise921

For what it's worth, I've been pretty close to cutting Venser for some time too. He's fun but fairly weak.

I agree with this. If I ran Venser it would be because he allows you to do cool things, not that he will necessarily help you win the game. Cards like Venser are "dangerous" if you are trying to build a cube strictly based on power level. There is likely a cognitive bias at work where if you do sneaky tricks with Venser and coincidentally win the game you will ascribe that victory to Venser, whereas actually you would have done as well or better with a five drop with more immediate impact.

Venser recently went infinite in my cube; with Eternal Witness and Time Walk.

Articles from this week:

Darksteel Set Review: I move on to the next set in the block, Darksteel.

Ranking the Planeswalkers: Sky presents a list that looks at a cumulative ranking between a bunch of cubers.

The list was apparently created by people that think Jace 3.0 is so good it needs to be banned from cubes? How can that possibly be? It isn't even good enough to make it into my cube. And Karn is WAY too high. It's good, but it costs 7 mana; it's WAY down on my list. Don't agree with that list much at all, past the first couple 'walkers.

Seeing Ral Zarek as #23 from some some of the cube's "top minds" is really disappointing. Seeing it behind cards like Elspeth Tirel is just embarrassing, actually.

It's a cumulative list, so it's what the average of the listed players said, compiled by the people at the Magic Box. Third is pretty high for Karn, but I personally put it at 5th because I think the ramp deck is really strong, and Karn fits into both the artifact ramp deck and the green-based ramp deck, and anything else in between. He's especially nice in the green ones since he can deal with all permanents (including creatures) and attack hands, something green typically won't have the ability to do.

I think it's a travesty that Jace 3.0 isn't on the list, but

wtwlf's comment made me pull all the Planeswalkers from my collection to rank them, before reading the article. Here's my list:

Legend:
- same as TOM's article - within 3 places - within 6 places - not even close

Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Liliana of the Veil
Gideon Jura

Ajani Vengeant
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad - I ranked Sorin and Koth 4 spots higher
Koth of the Hammer
Garruk Relentless
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Ral Zarek - I ranked Ral 13 spots higher

Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - Tezzeret was absent from the list... but we do support Artifact.dec and this guy is a monster there.
Sarkhan Vol - Also absent from the list.
Garruk Wildspeaker - perhaps I am undervaluing him a bit, I ranked 4 spots lower.
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage - I don't even run Tamiyo but I rank her higher than quite a number of 'walkers that I do run. Time to start thinking about this!
Venser, the Sojourner

Chandra, the Firebrand
Karn Liberated - I ranked Karn 14 spots lower... maybe I am undervaluing him? 7 is a lot and he can't be cheated into play.
Jace Beleren
Chandra, Pyromaster
Tezzeret the Seeker - Artifact.dec is supported in our cube.
Ajani, Caller of Pride
Vraska, the Unseen - I really wish I had the room to run her.

Chandra Nalaar
Elspeth Tirel
Ajani Goldmane

Thanks for the articles!

Quote from wtwlf123

The list was apparently created by people that think Jace 3.0 is so good it needs to be banned from cubes? How can that possibly be? It isn't even good enough to make it into my cube. And Karn is WAY too high. It's good, but it costs 7 mana; it's WAY down on my list. Don't agree with that list much at all, past the first couple 'walkers.

Seeing Ral Zarek as #23 from some some of the cube's "top minds" is really disappointing. Seeing it behind cards like Elspeth Tirel is just embarrassing, actually.

FWIW, my list had Ral Zarek at #12, Karn at #5...and Jace, Memory Adept at #24 for being too binary. And I had Koth at #3.

-AA

Quote from Antknee42

FWIW, my list had Ral Zarek at #12, Karn at #5...and Jace, Memory Adept at #24 for being too binary. And I had Koth at #3.

-AA

I can see the argument for Koth at #3. He is one of the better finishers in mono red/red aggressive decks, if not the best. (Close tie with Hellrider, I'd probably give it to the rider since he gets in guaranteed damage.) Ral Zarek is a cool one too and is probably worth that rating, though I havn't seen enough of him in action to comfortably give him a rating of any sort. I typically don't like talking about cards I've never seen in action, so hopefully Ral Zarek will make it into a draft in the future.

I actually rank Koth as the #1 or #2 best red card in the Cube.

-AA

Quote from Antknee42

I actually rank Koth as the #1 or #2 best red card in the Cube.

-AA

It's pretty close; in winston or booster draft, it's one of the reasons I go into red aggressive decks. Sulfuric Vortex is such a beating though, no life gain can be so relevant and hitting an opponent for two each turn is inevitability that Koth can't guarantee. I agree that it's become very close through the years, though.

I don't have Koth near #3. It's a good 'walker, but it's redundant in red with other 4-power hastey 4-drops (each of which has pros and cons in comparison to the others). It has wrath protection and a good ultimate, but Koth, Hero and Hellrider do pretty much the same thing when they resolve ...win.

Personally, while I agree that they are all good 4-drops, I feel Hellrider and Hero have a huge vulnerability that Koth does not: being a creature. That's why I put him significantly higher, and among the best planeswalkers.

-AA

Well, there's the vulnerability of being a 'walker that is best played with an all-in board and an ability that doesn't protect itself. He's been attacked to death more often than almost any other 'walker in the cube simply due to the nature of how he works.

I think Koth is great, but he's nowhere close to the 3rd best Planeswalker.

Quote from wtwlf123

Well, there's the vulnerability of being a 'walker that is best played with an all-in board and an ability that doesn't protect itself. He's been attacked to death more often than almost any other 'walker in the cube simply due to the nature of how he works.

I found that that honor goes to Sarkhan Vol. We haven't seen that issue with Koth at all; I've seen the 4 drop creatures die way more, but that's a circular argument (Koth dies more! No, dudes die more!) that I'm not willing to begin and gets the discussion nowhere.

I think Koth is great, but he's nowhere close to the 3rd best Planeswalker.

I respectfully disagree. Which is, of course, why I ranked him 3rd with no regret.

-AA

I'm not suggesting that he dies more, only that there's a different kind of (and often relevant) fragility to being an aggro-based planeswalker.

I think it's a great card (and a top 10 red card); I'd just have it further down on my top planeswalkers list than #3.

Some new articles:

Pack 1 Pick 1 #10: What would you choose?

Timetwister in Cube: Sky talks about Timetwister in cube.

Pack 1 Pick 1 #11: And...erm...what would you choose?

That Timetwister article fails to discuss the card advantage aspect of the card for ramp decks and artifact decks. It's one of the reasons (if not the main reason) the card is good in the cube. Play it when your hand is empty and theirs isn't. Also, digging for reach.

I don't think the order on the PW list matters that much once you note that there is a BIG gap between the top 12 and the remaining 13.

The only exclusions that seem arguable are the two Tezzerets and Memory Adept but those are kind of dependent on how you build you Cube.

Quote from KBH

I don't think the order on the PW list matters that much once you note that there is a BIG gap between the top 12 and the remaining 13.

The only exclusions that seem arguable are the two Tezzerets and Memory Adept but those are kind of dependent on how you build you Cube.

Memory Adept should definitely be on that list, the card is a thorough beating.

Quote from salmo

Memory Adept should definitely be on that list, the card is a thorough beating.

Sometimes! Other times, it is a 5-mana cantrip (or 5-mana Divination across two turns), or an actual do nothing (when you lose the race milling). Which is why it was low on my list.

-AA

Quote from Antknee42

Sometimes! Other times, it is a 5-mana cantrip (or 5-mana Divination across two turns), or an actual do nothing (when you lose the race milling). Which is why it was low on my list.

-AA

Mine too. I cut it a long time ago.

Quote from Antknee42

Sometimes! Other times, it is a 5-mana cantrip (or 5-mana Divination across two turns), or an actual do nothing (when you lose the race milling). Which is why it was low on my list.

-AA

Well, it's a 5 mana cantrip that gains you 5+ life, but yeah, sometimes it's not the greatest. But when it is, it wins the game.

How does it gain you life? They usually just race him and kill you.

In the instances where he gets attacked down, it's because they can't race him. Which means that you used his {-} ability off the bat. So it's not a cantrip + life gain at that point.

Quote from wtwlf123

How does it gain you life? They usually just race him and kill you.

In the instances where he gets attacked down, it's because they can't race him. Which means that you used his {-} ability off the bat. So it's not a cantrip + life gain at that point.

I try to play him into boards where he doesn't die instantly/seems to be able to live, but if they can get through and kill him then I'm able to draw more cards and find other ways to win if the JMA plan doesn't work. But, let's not have the JMA discussion again. I like him a lot, you don't--cool!