Recording a new episode tomorrow with Andy Cooperfaus. Our main topic of discussion is going to be red. We've got a number of items on the agenda, but are there any specific areas you'd like us to try and cover?
How to make red more interesting than burn and efficient beaters?
Black and green have gotten that treatment lately, leaving red as the most boring color in my cube. I try out cards like Guttersnipe, Chandra's Pheonix, etc to create a spells matters subtheme - have you had success with this?
And a wildfire/jokulhaups theme as well, to create a viable non-aggro red strategy.
Red always strikes me as AGGRO BURN BURN DIIIIIEEE!!!!! and then a load of little fragments of other archetypes: some graveyard enablers, some artifact cards, some control cards, LD, etc. but nothing that really constitutes a second strategy. Is there a way to make red's secondary role a little more coherent?
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I agree; I think most people know red's primary role in Magic, but how can one give red a secondary purpose in Cube? I support the 'blow everything up' archetype in my Cube (Haups, Obliterate, Wildfires, etc.), but there are certainly other things it can do as well (like support graveyard strategies, e.g.). I'd love for you guys to talk about those things in order to get them out into the public eye (ear).
I wish there were more Goblin Welder style cards or artifacts that cared about Red mana... I wouldn't mind Red being the other sort of artifact colour in conjunction with blue.
They kind of tried with Trash for Treasure but as a one shot effect it wasn't very good. Maybe if it was just R or something it would be more playable.
I'd like to see red go into a more 'Big Red' archetype. Rituals, mana rocks, artifact focus. Apart from burn and Wildfire strategies, red doesn't have much support for the other strategies it was famous for
I would love to hear about a sweet red archetype that isn't burn their face, wildfire, or goblin welder. I mean, there has to be some kind of card for red like there was pox for black.
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I would love to hear about a sweet red archetype that isn't burn their face, wildfire, or goblin welder. I mean, there has to be some kind of card for red like there was pox for black.
I've been staring at Krenko, Mob Boss and wondering if a goblin theme might be worth trying out. I think Kranny might even have mentioned it somewhere...
Thanks for the great content, but one small request:
Please add <enclosure> tags for the feed so that podcaster apps can pick up the mp3 out of it! It took me a while to figure out why new episodes were not showing up at all in my podcast app. Greener Pastures is the last one showing.
I think the answer to everyone's desire to make red more interesting lay in effects like Kiki-Jiki and Splinter Twin. I'd like to hear about ways to support those two cards that isn't combo.
I've been waiting for that one. The state of red is something that I am thinking about a lot recently.
I agree that what we perceive as red being uninteresting has a lot to do with the insular red deck. I end up playing what I call mostly-red decks when I draft red because, like you said, there is enough redundancy in the red creatures and spells to get there and then there are often a card or three that you can profitably splash to make your deck better without damaging your mana base. For example my last mostly-red deck was splashing green but only for Bloodbraid Elf, Treetop Village and Raging Ravine.
Red sees play, red wins drafts and red even has at least one secondary archetype in Wildfire in most Cubes; there is not really a big problem with red. Still, the Wildfire deck is hard to draft because many key parts are high picks for other strategies as well (mana stones, ramp), so in many drafts you either go mostly-red aggro or you splash some bolts or you just don't play red. I fear that a goblin theme does not change much, goblins still are primary red so you basically keep your island and just remove some barbarian shacks for goblin tents. Once the novelty of that wears off, you are back where you started.
For now, I think my plan for red is as follows:
Keep the core intact; I think the mostly red deck is a good deck to have, I just don't want it to be the only thing red does.
Keep enough support in other sections like green ramp or colorless mana stones for the Wildfire deck.
Enough rambling, thanks for the input. Now after listening to the podcast I feel there is not that much of a problem with red and that a solution that I am happy with is within my grasp.
I really liked this episode, red has been something I've been thinking about a lot lately. When you guys brought up that red has a hard time playing with the other colors, that got me thinking as well. I really like your goblin theme idea, but it doesn't help with integrating red better with other colors. Sneak attack is a good card for this role, as gets better if you have a larger range of creatures to use it with. I've also had some success with goblin bombardment, I haven't gotten enough testing for a verdict on it though. I like that it's a cheap card that gives every creature you own some value against removal, control magic, blocking/attacking. Goblin sharpshooter could be good with this card as well, I'll have to consider it. I really like goblin settler though, I could see cutting something like hellrider or keldon champion for it, since it gives red a very juicy card for blink/vat decks.
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After a long holiday break (I hope everyone had a safe and enjoyable holiday!), Joy of Cubing is back for more episodes in 2013! This week I am joined by Reuben Bresler to round out our color series with a discussion on white.
I'm listening to Whiteout on itunes. Interesting discussion but I think I ultimately side with Cooperfauss because what you're calling white aggro seems rather broad.
Personally, I think almost all of the the white three drops, especially the best ones, are much closer to midrange.
Oh, and Academy Rector into Omniscience is pretty bad, we've used it and it never happens. If you're casting Rector its probably WB so you can sac her easily (but her targets are so-so, especially in unpowered lists). If you want to combo with her your best options are like Flash or Sneak Attack but she's still more roundabout than just cheating fat which tends to be close enough to an auto-win. You need some off beat fat creatures for Flash though (Worldspine Wurm, Protean Hulk).
So Omniscience is basically just another uncastable fat but one that is hyper limited in your deck since it only works with Rector.
I just listened to the Redeeming Red podcast and found it really informative. We're trying to do just that with my cube at the moment. Thanks for the tips!
Just listened to my first episode (redeeming red) and was very impressed by both the content and the presentation. Truly a joy to listen to (bam!). Keep up the good work!
I've just listened to the podcasts available on iTunes. I like your perspective on cube management as well as how prepared your podcast outline seems to be. I do think you should give your show notes/outline to your guest prior to recording so they are a bit more prepared themselves instead of just responding to your talking points (which is still a good podcast btw). Looking forward to more.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I take each and every post/tweet into consideration when drafting up the shows. Your support and comments are very appreciated.
How to make red more interesting than burn and efficient beaters?
Black and green have gotten that treatment lately, leaving red as the most boring color in my cube. I try out cards like Guttersnipe, Chandra's Pheonix, etc to create a spells matters subtheme - have you had success with this?
And a wildfire/jokulhaups theme as well, to create a viable non-aggro red strategy.
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They kind of tried with Trash for Treasure but as a one shot effect it wasn't very good. Maybe if it was just R or something it would be more playable.
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I've been staring at Krenko, Mob Boss and wondering if a goblin theme might be worth trying out. I think Kranny might even have mentioned it somewhere...
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I agree that what we perceive as red being uninteresting has a lot to do with the insular red deck. I end up playing what I call mostly-red decks when I draft red because, like you said, there is enough redundancy in the red creatures and spells to get there and then there are often a card or three that you can profitably splash to make your deck better without damaging your mana base. For example my last mostly-red deck was splashing green but only for Bloodbraid Elf, Treetop Village and Raging Ravine.
Red sees play, red wins drafts and red even has at least one secondary archetype in Wildfire in most Cubes; there is not really a big problem with red. Still, the Wildfire deck is hard to draft because many key parts are high picks for other strategies as well (mana stones, ramp), so in many drafts you either go mostly-red aggro or you splash some bolts or you just don't play red. I fear that a goblin theme does not change much, goblins still are primary red so you basically keep your island and just remove some barbarian shacks for goblin tents. Once the novelty of that wears off, you are back where you started.
For now, I think my plan for red is as follows:
Enough rambling, thanks for the input. Now after listening to the podcast I feel there is not that much of a problem with red and that a solution that I am happy with is within my grasp.
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Can you post a direct link to the podcast feed so I can add the link manually into iTunes?
Thanks.
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Personally, I think almost all of the the white three drops, especially the best ones, are much closer to midrange.
Oh, and Academy Rector into Omniscience is pretty bad, we've used it and it never happens. If you're casting Rector its probably WB so you can sac her easily (but her targets are so-so, especially in unpowered lists). If you want to combo with her your best options are like Flash or Sneak Attack but she's still more roundabout than just cheating fat which tends to be close enough to an auto-win. You need some off beat fat creatures for Flash though (Worldspine Wurm, Protean Hulk).
So Omniscience is basically just another uncastable fat but one that is hyper limited in your deck since it only works with Rector.
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Thanks again to everyone for the feedback and suggestions!
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Excellent show as usual. Bummer Gatecrash is so thin for Cube
One thing I want to argue is that you seem to imply that the White 4 drop slot is pretty empty nowadays in your discussion of Gideon 2.0. I'm inclined to disagree: Ajani Goldmane, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Wrath of God, Day of Judgement, Armageddon, Faith Fetters, Hero of Bladehold & Restoration Angel are all all size staples as far as I'm concerned. After that there are cards like Sublime Archangel that have garnered support and play. I think Gideon 2.0 actually has a ton of competition which I think is the biggest strike against it.
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This week's episode is up with our forum's very own Darkmindtone! It's posted over at Gathering Magic - http://www.gatheringmagic.com/matt-kranstuber-limited-podcast-03182013-joy-of-cubing-14-living-large/
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