MTG Salvation

What do people think of my suggestion that we move in C&AD but after a wait period after the end of spoiler season? That'll allow most threads to sink beyond the front page while naturally keeping the active ones that are interesting to people. That way they don't suddenly explode the C&AD when the reallocation does happen, but the threads are still available should people want to restart discussion about it.

Quote from MagicFever

As I think it somehow fits in the discussion here: I wont update the SCD thread anymore, mainly because of two reasons:

1.) In the last few days about 30-40 RTR SCD were opened and I think only 2-3 were posted in the compilation thread, as neither eidolon nor Nof did link any of their new threads. This is not a problem at all for me personally, but under these circumstances I am not able and willed to keep the thread updated.

2.) The SCD were originally introduced as discussions for some interesting or questionable cards and not for all cards of a new set that might be playble at a size of about 720. Again that is fine by me, but it results in just too much SCD that I can update it regularly.

Do you mean you will stop updating the SCD compilation thread for all cards or just spoiler season ones? Is this a temporary thing?

If you have to give up management of the SCD compilation thread, we can handle it if necessary.

I had a long-ish post but DerBK pretty much said everything I wanted to say. This change goes contrary to the entire point of SCD discussions as established up to now and will decrease the quality of discussion in the coming months if it goes through. If we insist on having SCDs for rumor season, they MUST be archived after the Rumor season. The content within them is worthless once we have widespread testing (not only from cubers but just people playing the card in Limited or Constructed). That's aside from the problem that the vast majority of cards don't need threads and the reasoning for their construction will be often arbitrary during Rumor season.

I disagree wholeheartedly that the content in them will be worthless. Why not try to bring the content to a higher level rather than just erase it outright. I certainly won't be posting any thoughts in the SCD threads for upcoming sets if they will be discarded outright.

And it doesn't matter whether it's arbitrary which threads are moved. It's just as arbitrary when someone decides to start up any new thread in the SCD forum as is.

Does anybody actually go back to the Rumor threads after a set has been released? Do you not already have to say something new when an SCD thread is made X months in the future following a set's release? Are your later opinions not more informed if not completely different than they were in the past? What value is there preserving pages + posts made by people, however smart and adept, that had at most limited testing? Are X posts of "snap include" or "snap unplayable" really useful? How can you raise the level of discourse with a cap on testing or the testing done by the masses (How many times have you changed you opinion on a card after having seen it in action in a Limited or Constructed game)?

Have I made my point? I can keep going. I'm not trying to be rude at all but I don't see how this is a plus for this forum so I feel I have to take a hard stance. Sorry

Quote from Nof

That would be the most nice thing.

I've moved your vote point. I can't move where your name appears, but the tallies are now correct

Also, as an additional note, option #1 will need to beat option #2 and #3 collectively to win out (AKA receive over 50% of the total votes). This is because options #2 and #3 are just different ways of implementing the same idea, and should be treated as much. If there are any issues with this, feel free to voice them.

My favorite spoiler season in cube was Dark Ascension - the OP of the megathread updated the OP with a visual spoiler of cards worth considering. I vote for a megathread with updated OP of cubable cards.

Although I would also be in favor of a subforum for new SCD threads (just not for every single card on principle. That was annoying.) If someone wants to discuss a card, they can make a thread for it. I think when a new set comes out, only then should the previous New Card Discussion threads be moved. (For example, keep the RTR threads in the subforum until Gatecrash spoilers start)

Quote from eidolon232

Just think of the post that should be in the SCDs of the new spoiled cards as what you get to see in a set review. Although waiting a few months would give you more information about a card, players want to immediately know which cards have potential and how high they should pick them.
I am much less interested in who thinks a card is good than why they evaluate a card this way.

I'm sorry I don't entirely follow. Can you clarify what you mean? We already have some set review threads. Regardlees of how useful/good they are, we don't direct people to them after the set has been in the wild for a while - they are separate from SCDs. Why would we start doing that now? Everybody's evaluation of a card is more accurate with time. That posts made during Rumour season have little value afterwards is so obviously correct that I don't understand why there's any resistance to the idea. It's not a condemnation of anyone's evaluation skills, it's just the truth.

I'd hope set review threads would remain regardless of what happens. I like them, especially the ones wtwlf123 does. However, if somebody has a question about a card in M13, we don't direct them to set review threads, we ask them to make a new thread where they can get the wisdom of X number of weeks/months. To someone looking to discern the quality of a card, all the speculative posts created during Rumor season have no value. I don't want a 100 post topic where 50+ posts were made when everyone was just guessing how good a card was. That's all I'm saying. It's clutter, regardless of who wrote it, once enough time has passed.

I will be doing a set review (preview? :p) for Return to Ravnica for sure.

So, it appears that moving spoiler season SCDs into the Cards & Archetype Discussion subforum has gained the majority in the community. At this point, we feel that enough discussion has happened to allow for initial implementation of the new discussion structure, which is outlined as such:

New Card Subforum

• A new subforum will be opened up inside Cards & Archetype Discussion, called "New Card Discussion".
• Each spoiler season, users will be able to open SCDs for spoiled cards in the subforum.
• A megathread will be used for general set discussion. This thread will resemble the old megathread, and will be available for card discussion as well, such as for cards that users do not believe deserve an SCD yet. This thread will be stickied in the New Card Subforum.
• Spoiler discussion should not occur outside the subforum. The exception to this is in the Pauper and Peasant Discussion Threads.
• One week after the end of spoiler season, which is marked on the date of release of the product/set, all threads relating to that product will be moved into the Cards & Archetype Discussion subforum. For ease of use, until this point, we advise all threads relatinrevg to the product to be posted in the New Card Discussion subforum. The exception to this are set reviews, which belong in Articles.
• In the case of multiple products being spoiled during the same period, SCDs in the New Card Discussion subforum should denote their product, such as "[RTR] Vraska the Unseen". The Cube Mod Team will correct thread titles manually if necessary.

Over the course of the weekends, we will be implementing this new system to be used for the rest of RTR spoiler season. This will also mean that all RTR SCDs that have been in use so far will be moved to the new subforum.

We hope we can use this RTR spoiler season to test the new system. This thread will stay open in order to accept input from users after using the new system.

Quote from wtwlf123

I will be doing a set review (preview? :p) for Return to Ravnica for sure.

Looking forward to it!

Quote from Lanxal

So, it appears that moving spoiler season SCDs into the Cards & Archetype Discussion subforum has gained the majority in the community. At this point, we feel that enough discussion has happened to allow for initial implementation of the new discussion structure, which is outlined as such:

New Card Subforum

• A new subforum will be opened up inside Cards & Archetype Discussion, called "New Card Discussion".
• Each spoiler season, users will be able to open SCDs for spoiled cards in the subforum.
• A megathread will be used for general set discussion. This thread will resemble the old megathread, and will be available for card discussion as well, such as for cards that users do not believe deserve an SCD yet. This thread will be stickied in the New Card Subforum.
• Spoiler discussion should not occur outside the subforum. The exception to this is in the Pauper and Peasant Discussion Threads.
• One week after the end of spoiler season, which is marked on the date of release of the product/set, all threads relating to that product will be moved into the Cards & Archetype Discussion subforum. For ease of use, until this point, we advise all threads relatinrevg to the product to be posted in the New Card Discussion subforum. The exception to this are set reviews, which belong in Articles.
• In the case of multiple products being spoiled during the same period, SCDs in the New Card Discussion subforum should denote their product, such as "[RTR] Vraska the Unseen". The Cube Mod Team will correct thread titles manually if necessary.

Over the course of the weekends, we will be implementing this new system to be used for the rest of RTR spoiler season. This will also mean that all RTR SCDs that have been in use so far will be moved to the new subforum.

We hope we can use this RTR spoiler season to test the new system. This thread will stay open in order to accept input from users after using the new system.

That sounds perfect imo.

I would interpret this as saying: "If it relates to any product that hasn't been released yet, all discussion pertaining to said product belongs in the 'New Card Discussion' subforum."

We're working on getting the NCD subforum fully set up as I speak. We have a tentative rules list up already and should have it finalized shortly. Feel free to use it in the meantime

EDIT:
The rules have been finalized, and threads are slowly being relocated. We're leaving 1-day expiring redirects so that you can still find the threads you were following, but without creating a lasting eye sore for the main C&AD forum.

Quote from Toad

While I don't mind the new subforum, I find it quite annoying that it is now a subforum into a subforum. I used the "Last Post" feature for knowing whether there is something to read or not, and the subforum structure hides a lot of things. Can't we have the new card section at the same level as the card and archetype discussion?

This was actually suggested in the mod discussion, here's what the reasoning against it was:

• The NCD sub is a logical extension of the C&AD sub.
• Forum traffic will likely be common between the two, more so than traffic between them and something like cube lists/articles. This means that nested makes it fewer clicks to traverse between them, while non-nested impedes traffic.

Quote from eidolon232

What about discussion of cards that are not available on paper, yet in the This or That thread?

Quote from wtwlf123

I would interpret this as saying: "If it relates to any product that hasn't been released yet, all discussion pertaining to said product belongs in the 'New Card Discussion' subforum."

Quote from eidolon232

That's my position on that topic as well, the only question is whether or not the mods are willing to enforce this rule.

Sorry for forgetting to respond to this!

We prefer if all such discussion occurs in the NCD, and that does include This or That comparisons. These would be best brought up in the megathread of that spoiler season.

However, if such discussion is brought up outside the NCD, we will not be enforcing this rule too hard - at most we will be posting to direct the discussion back into the NCD. Times we may be more lenient include a few days prior to the end of the period (1 week after product release.)