Duplicate sealed is a format where each player has an identical sealed pool. I thought I would post this in here since I think the design would overlap a lot with Cube principles.
Here are some basic structural rules:
1. 90 card pool, though I have seen people do 120 cards for more depth
2. Multiple builds need to be supported, across all 5 colors
3. The skill-testing aspect of Duplicate sealed isn't to make the best deck with the pool, but to figure out what kinds of decks others can make with the pool and to build a deck that does well against those strategies. For example, if the theme of the pool is ramp into big creatures, prioritize small efficient creatures and removal spells.
I have had a lot of trouble finding any recommendations for making such a 'cube'. I have seen articles about how specific duplicate sealed builds were put together, and the though process, but I have not found anything for someone building from scratch.
My thoughts, which I suppose are debatable:
4) The different archetypes need to overlap significantly
5) There should not be any auto-include cards
My questions:
A) Does anyone have experience building something like this?
B) How many archetypes would be needed?
C) How would you balance the colors? I don't want to just make 5 monocolor strategies and have people mix and match. I want a lot of multicolor too. But I can't exactly put enough for 10 guilds in a 90 card pool.
While I wouldn't call myself an especially talented cube-maker, I wanted to see if I could design something along these lines and see what I could come up with...
While my lack of expertise is pretty clear with this thing, I feel that the general idea of having each color trying to do very similar things in different ways is the general way to go about it (All colors have ETB abilities to be reset. All colors have some degree of artifact support. All colors have at least one decent enchantment. All colors have something halfway decent to cheat out. Nearly every color has a way to cheat things out. If you want to force a cheaper naya deck, you can. If you want to force a grixis spell-slinger/reanimation deck, you can. Lots of possible variations). I had to use sub-par cards (especially in regards to artifact ramp) to prevent auto-includes but things feel fairly usable at the moment.
As most of my multicolor picks were cards that would see play in real cubes, choosing the ones that best meet the needs of the cube and its archetypes was pretty simple.
While I was tempted on using soulherder for Azorius, I figured that the focus on forcing out gigantic creatures with ETB abilities makes Fractured Identity a better card... and it helps with the low removal count... and gives white a decent payoff card for spell-matters. While boros charm would have been a more powerful choice for Boros (and would have given white another decent spell), I wanted to make sure that the enchantment deck had at least one win condition card that wasn't based on cheating out bigger creatures.
In the end of the day, lots of eyeballing was involved.
As far as land balancing goes, I guess that's a toss-up. If my build didn't have any lands and had +3 extra cards per color (or 1 extra card per color + 1 extra card per guild), it would be notably easier for players to build 2-color decks and smoothing the mana would be less important. Because I put so many lands into the pool, however, players will often need to go three colors and will have far greater need for those lands. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy in that way, I guess.
If you want to do something budget, do a lorwyn/morningtide seal. Have multiple tribes and jobs spread across colors with changelings acting as the glue. The same sort of complexity that made the set a "mistake" in the eyes of WotC could make it a very compelling duplicate seal.
I considered doing something similar after buying into pioneer. I had cards for red aggressive decks, but couldn't decide on which splash I wanted to play. I considered splitting the cards into two identical (sealed) piles, and each player would have to build a 30 card deck with max 2 duplicates in the list. The possible lists would include mono red, izzet prowess, boros burn and attarka red. I also considered making two sealed pools with my abzan cards.
Perhaps it is not neccessary to include all 5 colours? Some ideas if you want to include a lot of multicolour cards:
1. Pick only 3 colours. This will leave you room for more gold cards
2. Focus on 1 or 2 colours with options to splash for powerful gold cards.
I have a two player peasant cube with 180 cards. To make 2 colour decks viable, I had to cut down to 1 gold card pr. guild and only include lands that can fix for any colour. I guess fetch+shock lands will be an option when including rares.
I finished making a list, though I have not tested it yet.
120 cards x 4. I realized that with more people we can draft a normal cube, so this is a good option for less than 4 people.
It is 5 colors, though there are imbalances with the gold cards as I want some people to play 2 colors and others to play 3 colors. I chose not to make any one color deep enough to go monocolor. If I want to enable this I would probably need to cut some gold cards and put some hybrid cards.
Will post the list once I pickup the sleeves.
Do you think there should be sideboarding or no? I think best of 1 would be best. You play each opponent once - 3 quick games.
Here are some basic structural rules:
1. 90 card pool, though I have seen people do 120 cards for more depth
2. Multiple builds need to be supported, across all 5 colors
3. The skill-testing aspect of Duplicate sealed isn't to make the best deck with the pool, but to figure out what kinds of decks others can make with the pool and to build a deck that does well against those strategies. For example, if the theme of the pool is ramp into big creatures, prioritize small efficient creatures and removal spells.
I have had a lot of trouble finding any recommendations for making such a 'cube'. I have seen articles about how specific duplicate sealed builds were put together, and the though process, but I have not found anything for someone building from scratch.
My thoughts, which I suppose are debatable:
4) The different archetypes need to overlap significantly
5) There should not be any auto-include cards
My questions:
A) Does anyone have experience building something like this?
B) How many archetypes would be needed?
C) How would you balance the colors? I don't want to just make 5 monocolor strategies and have people mix and match. I want a lot of multicolor too. But I can't exactly put enough for 10 guilds in a 90 card pool.
Thanks!
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
While I wouldn't call myself an especially talented cube-maker, I wanted to see if I could design something along these lines and see what I could come up with...
1 Ephemerate
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Thraben Inspector
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Monastery Mentor
4 Academy Rector
4 Moat
4 Restoration Angel
6 Sun Titan
Blue
1 Delver of Secrets
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tinker
3 Forbid
3 Show and Tell
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Thassa, Deep-Dwelling
8 Treasure Cruise
9 Inkwell Leviathan
Black
1 Stitcher's Supplier
2 Scrapheap Scrounger
2 Bitterblossom
3 Recurring Nightmare
3 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Languish
4 Ravenous Chupacabra
6 Grave titan
7 Gurmag Angler
8 Griselbrand
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Faithless Looting
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Abrade
3 Seasoned Pyromancer
3 Trash for Treasure
4 Sneak Attack
4 Flametongue Kavu
5 Siege-gang Commander
6 Inferno Titan
Green
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Oath of Druids
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Reclamation Sage
3 Kodama's Reach
5 Verdurous Gearhulk
8 Woodfall Primus
Artifacts
0 Engineered Explosives
1 Retrofitter Foundry
1 Expedition Map
2 Smuggler's Copter
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Cranial Plating
2 Thaumatic Compass
3 Foundry Inspector
3 Bonder's ORnament
3 Mimic Vat
4 Solemn Simulacrum
5 Batterskull
6 Steel Hellkite
12 Blightsteel Colossus
2 Assassin's Trophy
2 Izzet Charm
3 Oko, Thief of Crowns
3 Knight of Autumn
3 Kolaghan's Command
3 Vindicate
4 Hostage Taker
5 Fractured Identity
5 Assemble the Legion
7 Dragonlord Atarka
Lands
0 Hallowed Fountain
0 Godless Shrine
0 Sacred Mesa
0 Temple Garden
0 Watery Grave
0 Blood Crypt
0 Steam Vents
0 Breeding Pool
0 Overgrown Tomb
0 Stomping Ground
0 Volrath's Stronghold
0 Tolarian Academy
0 Serra's Sanctum
0 Gaea's Cradle
0 Castle Ardendale
0 Flamekin Village
0 Inkmoth Nexus
While my lack of expertise is pretty clear with this thing, I feel that the general idea of having each color trying to do very similar things in different ways is the general way to go about it (All colors have ETB abilities to be reset. All colors have some degree of artifact support. All colors have at least one decent enchantment. All colors have something halfway decent to cheat out. Nearly every color has a way to cheat things out. If you want to force a cheaper naya deck, you can. If you want to force a grixis spell-slinger/reanimation deck, you can. Lots of possible variations). I had to use sub-par cards (especially in regards to artifact ramp) to prevent auto-includes but things feel fairly usable at the moment.
How did you go about selecting multicolor cards?
I know I am thinking of something much lower budget, since I wanted to make 8 copies if possible. But the shell should still hold.
Do you think it is important for the lands to be balanced (like you have one of each shockland)?
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
While I was tempted on using soulherder for Azorius, I figured that the focus on forcing out gigantic creatures with ETB abilities makes Fractured Identity a better card... and it helps with the low removal count... and gives white a decent payoff card for spell-matters. While boros charm would have been a more powerful choice for Boros (and would have given white another decent spell), I wanted to make sure that the enchantment deck had at least one win condition card that wasn't based on cheating out bigger creatures.
In the end of the day, lots of eyeballing was involved.
As far as land balancing goes, I guess that's a toss-up. If my build didn't have any lands and had +3 extra cards per color (or 1 extra card per color + 1 extra card per guild), it would be notably easier for players to build 2-color decks and smoothing the mana would be less important. Because I put so many lands into the pool, however, players will often need to go three colors and will have far greater need for those lands. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy in that way, I guess.
If you want to do something budget, do a lorwyn/morningtide seal. Have multiple tribes and jobs spread across colors with changelings acting as the glue. The same sort of complexity that made the set a "mistake" in the eyes of WotC could make it a very compelling duplicate seal.
Perhaps it is not neccessary to include all 5 colours? Some ideas if you want to include a lot of multicolour cards:
1. Pick only 3 colours. This will leave you room for more gold cards
2. Focus on 1 or 2 colours with options to splash for powerful gold cards.
I have a two player peasant cube with 180 cards. To make 2 colour decks viable, I had to cut down to 1 gold card pr. guild and only include lands that can fix for any colour. I guess fetch+shock lands will be an option when including rares.
120 cards x 4. I realized that with more people we can draft a normal cube, so this is a good option for less than 4 people.
It is 5 colors, though there are imbalances with the gold cards as I want some people to play 2 colors and others to play 3 colors. I chose not to make any one color deep enough to go monocolor. If I want to enable this I would probably need to cut some gold cards and put some hybrid cards.
Will post the list once I pickup the sleeves.
Do you think there should be sideboarding or no? I think best of 1 would be best. You play each opponent once - 3 quick games.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers