We've come to the realization that guys in our group are more Timmy & Johnny than spike. Each player in our group has a Timmy or Johhny side, some are both. Our original cube was created not only through info in this forum, but also random search of magic cards.info, discovering "new cards" since exodus (note my sig). Things like sliver queen, dragonmaster outcast and miri cursed. Then revisions had lost some of those unique cards for more standard, and spikier cards. I'm partially to blame as the cube manager and a spike, our cube's primary focus is to be fun, and it's become less so. A few of our players have recently commented that the cube has become stronger and more stale. So, let's make a new cube, the Johmmy/Tinny cube.
The goal of this thread and my request:
- Figure out how to make such a cube
- Brainstorm archetypes and ideas...and eventually card choices
- I think this is the "throw mud at the wall" phase. Get ideas out...some might not stick long-term.
The cube goal is to
- Create a cube where epic, and crazy stories are commonplace.
- Embrace unique, Johnny-centric cards, archetypes, and strategies...including combos, and interesting synergies discovered during deck holding and gameplay.
- Enable the Timmiest of huge plays
Thoughts and considerations:
- We're an old-school group. Cards/archetypes flavor, text, and effects should feel OG, new border or not. No planeswalkers or equipment...perhaps certain abilities or keywords.
- We're driving to Balance aggro, midrange, control...and combo (I'm concerned about this...)
- Decks and cards can and should should be potentially strong...blowouts are cool if they're exciting! (I.e. Upheaval)
- Not purposely exclude strong Spkie cards, as long as they can support Johmmies. Some spike cards likely needed (brainstorm, good land, etc)
- Good tier 1 level cards could be replaced by "similarly powerful but more Johhny" cards (wrath of God vs. planar collapse).
I've got some good starting ideas, partially influenced by the linked resources.
Good land and fixing are obviously needed. Land tax seems an easy include.
Regarding specific card choices...I have a gut feeling that card choices should favor cards that are flexible, and either have options (Catastrophe and charms come to mind), or be used in numerous deck building options. For example, could Kiki-Jiki, Mirror BreakerKiki Jiki and pestermite both be useful outside of that combo...maybe? I want to try to minimize cards that are only good in one instance or combo, knowing full that this'll be tricky when trying to support combo. Also, tutors and card selection will be helpful I'm sure, so demonic/vampiric tutor, sylvan library, etc.
I'd love to have a discussion on how much disruption/counters/removal should be involved. It should be needed, but I'm not sure if it should be entirely nixed...
I'm also considering if some reset buttons might be needed to break up curdle sorts of stalemates...
Ideas for potential archtypes:
- Reanimator
- Cheaty like show and tell, eureka, tooth and nail, natural order
- Artifacts (perhaps tinker?)
- 3-5 color decks? Land and fixing would be an important consideration.
- ramp (rite of replication )
- Tokens
- Spells-maters
I'd start with breaking the singleton rule and start with a different look at something towards what you would see with a draft simulator. Then add in specific engine and mana cards first to create the "base" with things like Prime Time. Then follow up with specific cards that you are a "must have" and then build the glue together through that to achieve those decks.
Sounds complex, but it can work. Just takes time and you might want to construct around a few mechanics first and then gradually shift the Cube upwards and so forth.
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How big do you want your cube to be? as small as the other one?
Because there are alot of funny arcetypes and strategies, but some of them might need a certain amount of specific cards and can be parasitic.
When it comes to fun, everyone has other things he prefers. To me cheating/combo archetypes aren't really fun. I'd rather have a combofocused meta with complex boardstates and combat tricks, but thats just my opinion.
You could push some W/u/x Blink and some B/x Sacrifice Archetypes, those are always fun, especially with lots of crazy EtB or deathtriggers. Oh, and I would highly recommend cards that make people think and effects that re like little mini games on their own. Fact or Fiction coes to my mind as a well known exmple.
Howdy,thanks for your thoughts. This cube will be for 4-6 guys, so not as small as the two-person. So for a normal draft 4 players would need 180, and 6 need 270, right? We're more likely to draft with 4 than 6. Given that, I'm not really sure really sure there should be more than 270, maybe 300 at the most. I'd be worried about a combo piece getting left in Un-drafted cards, but at the same time, I don't think Johnny wants to see all of the cards every draft...variability is desireable? Could there be enough options at 270 or 300?
I do know that the group likes interactive cards, and choices. We've got argothian worm, and those kind of cards have been favorites (vexing devil, etc).
Regarding archetypes, I think that blink is good, and sacrifice shenanigans have gotten good feedback. Elvish piper was also a fan fave, though that's not exactly reanimator cheatiness.
Some other ideas that have come up are tribal cubes (kavus, soldiers, zombies, goblins and merfolk.
One guy also found a cube idea where the colors were planes shifted, or something, where white was control, blue was aggro, black ramped...interesting.
I'd start with breaking the singleton rule and start with a different look at something towards what you would see with a draft simulator. Then add in specific engine and mana cards first to create the "base" with things like Prime Time. Then follow up with specific cards that you are a "must have" and then build the glue together through that to achieve those decks.
Sounds complex, but it can work. Just takes time and you might want to construct around a few mechanics first and then gradually shift the Cube upwards and so forth.
Thanks! I'm hearing my group still likes singleton,'so we'll probably stick with it.
I think we're looking for some combo enablers that use cards that are good on their own, and in an actual combo. Do you know where I could go for a list of common combo cards?
I think we're looking for some combo enablers that use cards that are good on their own, and in an actual combo. Do you know where I could go for a list of common combo cards?
you may enjoy my commander deck (in my signature)
theres a lot of interlocking combos in there, and most of the individual cards are playable on their own.
The goal of this thread and my request:
- Figure out how to make such a cube
- Brainstorm archetypes and ideas...and eventually card choices
- I think this is the "throw mud at the wall" phase. Get ideas out...some might not stick long-term.
The cube goal is to
- Create a cube where epic, and crazy stories are commonplace.
- Embrace unique, Johnny-centric cards, archetypes, and strategies...including combos, and interesting synergies discovered during deck holding and gameplay.
- Enable the Timmiest of huge plays
Thoughts and considerations:
- We're an old-school group. Cards/archetypes flavor, text, and effects should feel OG, new border or not. No planeswalkers or equipment...perhaps certain abilities or keywords.
- We're driving to Balance aggro, midrange, control...and combo (I'm concerned about this...)
- Decks and cards can and should should be potentially strong...blowouts are cool if they're exciting! (I.e. Upheaval)
- Not purposely exclude strong Spkie cards, as long as they can support Johmmies. Some spike cards likely needed (brainstorm, good land, etc)
- Good tier 1 level cards could be replaced by "similarly powerful but more Johhny" cards (wrath of God vs. planar collapse).
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
Good land and fixing are obviously needed. Land tax seems an easy include.
Regarding specific card choices...I have a gut feeling that card choices should favor cards that are flexible, and either have options (Catastrophe and charms come to mind), or be used in numerous deck building options. For example, could Kiki-Jiki, Mirror BreakerKiki Jiki and pestermite both be useful outside of that combo...maybe? I want to try to minimize cards that are only good in one instance or combo, knowing full that this'll be tricky when trying to support combo. Also, tutors and card selection will be helpful I'm sure, so demonic/vampiric tutor, sylvan library, etc.
I'd love to have a discussion on how much disruption/counters/removal should be involved. It should be needed, but I'm not sure if it should be entirely nixed...
I'm also considering if some reset buttons might be needed to break up curdle sorts of stalemates...
Ideas for potential archtypes:
- Reanimator
- Cheaty like show and tell, eureka, tooth and nail, natural order
- Artifacts (perhaps tinker?)
- 3-5 color decks? Land and fixing would be an important consideration.
- ramp (rite of replication )
- Tokens
- Spells-maters
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
Sounds complex, but it can work. Just takes time and you might want to construct around a few mechanics first and then gradually shift the Cube upwards and so forth.
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
Howdy,thanks for your thoughts. This cube will be for 4-6 guys, so not as small as the two-person. So for a normal draft 4 players would need 180, and 6 need 270, right? We're more likely to draft with 4 than 6. Given that, I'm not really sure really sure there should be more than 270, maybe 300 at the most. I'd be worried about a combo piece getting left in Un-drafted cards, but at the same time, I don't think Johnny wants to see all of the cards every draft...variability is desireable? Could there be enough options at 270 or 300?
I do know that the group likes interactive cards, and choices. We've got argothian worm, and those kind of cards have been favorites (vexing devil, etc).
Regarding archetypes, I think that blink is good, and sacrifice shenanigans have gotten good feedback. Elvish piper was also a fan fave, though that's not exactly reanimator cheatiness.
Some other ideas that have come up are tribal cubes (kavus, soldiers, zombies, goblins and merfolk.
One guy also found a cube idea where the colors were planes shifted, or something, where white was control, blue was aggro, black ramped...interesting.
Thanks! I'm hearing my group still likes singleton,'so we'll probably stick with it.
I think we're looking for some combo enablers that use cards that are good on their own, and in an actual combo. Do you know where I could go for a list of common combo cards?
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
theres a lot of interlocking combos in there, and most of the individual cards are playable on their own.
the necrotic ooze/quicksilver elemental/experiment kraj combos are especially great, and a cube environment where those are high picks is something id be very interested in.