Is that more relevant than extra toughness would be against -X/-X effects and -1/-1 counters?
In C/Ubes, the Barrier's wording is particularly effective against Pestilence and Pyrohemia though, which are pretty darn good in those formats.
Hmmmmm, true. Barrier is also better against pingers and stuff like mortarpod if the creautre somehow gains deathtouch. So I'm not really sure if being better agains -x/-x or 1 damage effects is better. Either way, I think we can agree that neither a 3 cmc +0/+1 or the barrier are good enough currently.
Prophet of Kruphix is on deck for us, but I don't know that it can break into the top five for Simic. It would certainly be one of many solid options for the sixth Simic card, though.
Parallax Wave. Another card we cut a long time ago that we just seeded into this weekend's drafts. I'm almost tempted to say that it's worth cutting Day of Judgement for. It's really good in both aggro and control. Even in blink decks. Seriously criminally excluded.
Parallax Wave. Another card we cut a long time ago that we just seeded into this weekend's drafts. I'm almost tempted to say that it's worth cutting Day of Judgement for. It's really good in both aggro and control. Even in blink decks. Seriously criminally excluded.
I don't have Moat or Ravages of War so I run Parallax Wave, and I must agree that it is pretty awesome. It's one of those cards that you look at and say "Fading 5? They'll just be back in a couple turns...what's the point?" Well, in practice, sometimes you only need ONE turn, let alone several, of unimpeded attacks to win. In addition, you can play it in the Blink deck alongside some ETB dudes and just run the show.
Definitely a great cube card!
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Parallax Wave. Another card we cut a long time ago that we just seeded into this weekend's drafts. I'm almost tempted to say that it's worth cutting Day of Judgement for. It's really good in both aggro and control. Even in blink decks. Seriously criminally excluded.
I like Parallax Wave but I think it's a lot better in aggro. It'll buy you a turn or two in control, and that might be enough. But in aggro, it's often played as "2WW: exile your three blockers, win the game."
I like Parallax Wave but I think it's a lot better in aggro. It'll buy you a turn or two in control, and that might be enough. But in aggro, it's often played as "2WW: exile your three blockers, win the game."
Perhaps it's better in aggro, but it's still quite strong in control. Buying a couple of turns is quite significant -- you're able to play more lands and develop your side of the board while you blank a couple of beaters. Aggro creatures are a lot less threatening even just a couple of turns later.
True it would be better for control to just wipe the board, but I like how flexible Parallax Wave is. I mean, it's not just a control card (the way Day of Judgement is) since it can go in a lot more decks while still being quite powerful in control. Were it to take DoJ's slot you're now effectively giving aggro another curve topping option and blink.dec a new toy to do some crazy things with, while not taking too much away from control. It's worse vs Thrun on a corner case, but it's also better vs Wurmcoil.
As for some of the cards mentioned in this thread, my thoughts:
Cards I currently enjoy in my cube (means I think they are both powerful and fun):
Shrine of Burning Rage
Attrition
Kessig Wolf Run
Keranos, God of Storms
Avenger of Zendikar
Polukranos, World Eater
Snuff Out
Craterhoof Behemoth
Master of Waves
Nether Void
Academy Rector
Sphinx's Revelation
Archangel of Thune
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Blood Artist
Scuttling Doom Engine
Cards I don't currently run in my cube, but I still think are powerful and might run again at some point:
Trading Post
Frantic Search
Phantom Centaur
Guul Draz Assassin
Unearth
Helm of Possession
Dungeon Geists
Sadistic Hypnotist
Prophet of Kruphix
Cards that I look forward to trying in some Cube after (re-)discovering them in the thread:
Nimbus Naiad
Lust for War
Praetor's Grasp
Lashknife Barrier
Valley Dasher
I had it in my initial iteration of cube, but cut it early after a major cube update.. Wasn't seeing it in action much, and had positive but not broken experiences with it.
I reincluded it temporarily for containment priest testing and have since seen it do enough amazing things that I can't see cutting it for a very long time. My favourite thing about the card is how unique of a card it is and how much cool stuff you can do with it.
It's not a top 20 card in white in power, but easily top 5 in fun and strategic complexity.
I replied to this thread as a shameless bump of
Craterhoof Behemoth + Gaes' Cradle
wanted to add a new creature to this list. One that I theory crafted to be potentially playable when I was trying to buff reanimator. It has WAY more than earned its spot after at least 10 direct experiences with the card. It's no where near the chopping block and IMO a mandatory 450+ include that most cube owners here are sleeping on.
Massacre wurm.
I looked up its initial scd and it seems like few people gave it a proper trial.
It's also very possible that the card has improved dramatically with the direction cube has gone since its release.
With so many of the top planes walkers producing tokens, massacre wurm is a huge beating against even more decks than it was before.
Costing 6 mana also makes it hard cast able in UB control decks or GB recurring nightmare decks.
If you are unconvinced, Just try it out. A few proper trials and I'm convinced you will be convinced. Id stake my reputation on it (if that means anything lol)
Good ole Massacre Wurm. One of those cards I see in packs and I'm like "garbage" and then I automatically lose to it the minute someone casts it. Such a powerful card but super restrictive in what decks really want it. Even if you don't die to it coming into play, you end up dying if you can't remove it as its hard to finish the game without losing a few more creatures here or there.
It's certainly a fine card. I don't know if it's "criminally excluded" as this thread suggests the cards to be ("Oh *****, it's the Cube Police!") but the larger your cube the more likely you should be playing it.
I forgot about this thread, but read through some of these older posts and I can say without a doubt now that Helm of Possession is criminally underrated. I had it in a mono green midrange-y ramp deck last night and it was so good. One game it stole a Lightning Angel and got me the game. The next game it stole a Batterskull Germ to force my opponent to equip elsewhere, then stole the guy he equipped to. Granted, it does take some building around. I had mana dorks and Garruk wolves as sac outlets to it. It's a poor man's Shackles and it's awesome. Just this past weekend we were sorting the cube after a draft and when Helm landed on the top of the stack my friend blurted out, "That ****in' card. God." It's been good to us here and I'd highly recommend everyone at 540 or higher give it a test run.
Another nod for Helm of Possession. Sure, it's fragile and can be costly, but it can be downright brutal. It also has that strong "fun" factor when playing multiplayer. If you run tokens, or have some self reanimating black critters, it can take over a game all by itself.
I've had Contamination sitting in my binder ever since Urza's Saga came out. Always felt it was a bit degenerate, but I've decided to toss it in and see what happens.
Pattern of Rebirth is what I'll add to this discussion. It may be weak to exile effects, but putting it on a little mana dork on turn 3 puts the fear of God into opponents that you're going to search for an Emrakul, or Prime Time should your critter die.
Okay in all seriousness, I think Blightning is a card we miss too much. Deal 3 damage + discard 2 cards. The deal 3 damage could easily be redirected to Jace or another planeswalker and discard 2. Amazing value, makes good against planeswalkers
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
The thing about the acceptable rakdos cards is that they're all good and fine. Like, Blightning was a top Rakdos cards for years, and just cause better cards have been printed since doesn't mean it's bad anymore, a bottom option in Rakdos is still a great card.
Hmmmmm, true. Barrier is also better against pingers and stuff like mortarpod if the creautre somehow gains deathtouch. So I'm not really sure if being better agains -x/-x or 1 damage effects is better. Either way, I think we can agree that neither a 3 cmc +0/+1 or the barrier are good enough currently.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I think this is what makes Barrier such a big deal in C/Ubes.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
I don't have Moat or Ravages of War so I run Parallax Wave, and I must agree that it is pretty awesome. It's one of those cards that you look at and say "Fading 5? They'll just be back in a couple turns...what's the point?" Well, in practice, sometimes you only need ONE turn, let alone several, of unimpeded attacks to win. In addition, you can play it in the Blink deck alongside some ETB dudes and just run the show.
Definitely a great cube card!
I like Parallax Wave but I think it's a lot better in aggro. It'll buy you a turn or two in control, and that might be enough. But in aggro, it's often played as "2WW: exile your three blockers, win the game."
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I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
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Perhaps it's better in aggro, but it's still quite strong in control. Buying a couple of turns is quite significant -- you're able to play more lands and develop your side of the board while you blank a couple of beaters. Aggro creatures are a lot less threatening even just a couple of turns later.
True it would be better for control to just wipe the board, but I like how flexible Parallax Wave is. I mean, it's not just a control card (the way Day of Judgement is) since it can go in a lot more decks while still being quite powerful in control. Were it to take DoJ's slot you're now effectively giving aggro another curve topping option and blink.dec a new toy to do some crazy things with, while not taking too much away from control. It's worse vs Thrun on a corner case, but it's also better vs Wurmcoil.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/articles-podcasts-and-guides/543918-top-20-underplayed-cube-cards
As for some of the cards mentioned in this thread, my thoughts:
Cards I currently enjoy in my cube (means I think they are both powerful and fun):
Shrine of Burning Rage
Attrition
Kessig Wolf Run
Keranos, God of Storms
Avenger of Zendikar
Polukranos, World Eater
Snuff Out
Craterhoof Behemoth
Master of Waves
Nether Void
Academy Rector
Sphinx's Revelation
Archangel of Thune
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Blood Artist
Scuttling Doom Engine
Cards I don't currently run in my cube, but I still think are powerful and might run again at some point:
Trading Post
Frantic Search
Phantom Centaur
Guul Draz Assassin
Unearth
Helm of Possession
Dungeon Geists
Sadistic Hypnotist
Prophet of Kruphix
Cards that I look forward to trying in some Cube after (re-)discovering them in the thread:
Nimbus Naiad
Lust for War
Praetor's Grasp
Lashknife Barrier
Valley Dasher
I had it in my initial iteration of cube, but cut it early after a major cube update.. Wasn't seeing it in action much, and had positive but not broken experiences with it.
I reincluded it temporarily for containment priest testing and have since seen it do enough amazing things that I can't see cutting it for a very long time. My favourite thing about the card is how unique of a card it is and how much cool stuff you can do with it.
It's not a top 20 card in white in power, but easily top 5 in fun and strategic complexity.
I replied to this thread as a shameless bump of
Craterhoof Behemoth + Gaes' Cradle
RUN THESE CARDS PPL =P
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
Massacre wurm.
I looked up its initial scd and it seems like few people gave it a proper trial.
It's also very possible that the card has improved dramatically with the direction cube has gone since its release.
With so many of the top planes walkers producing tokens, massacre wurm is a huge beating against even more decks than it was before.
Costing 6 mana also makes it hard cast able in UB control decks or GB recurring nightmare decks.
If you are unconvinced, Just try it out. A few proper trials and I'm convinced you will be convinced. Id stake my reputation on it (if that means anything lol)
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
Draft my cube!
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Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
thats my cube
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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I've had Contamination sitting in my binder ever since Urza's Saga came out. Always felt it was a bit degenerate, but I've decided to toss it in and see what happens.
Pattern of Rebirth is what I'll add to this discussion. It may be weak to exile effects, but putting it on a little mana dork on turn 3 puts the fear of God into opponents that you're going to search for an Emrakul, or Prime Time should your critter die.
Okay in all seriousness, I think Blightning is a card we miss too much. Deal 3 damage + discard 2 cards. The deal 3 damage could easily be redirected to Jace or another planeswalker and discard 2. Amazing value, makes good against planeswalkers
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic