I'd like to pose an idea I've been pondering for a while to the forum, and I'll try and outline the issue as clearly as possible so that I might produce some productive feedback on the matter: I've been having some issues with mana fixing in my EDH cube which have in a large part stemmed from my limited budget, and as a result I've gotten a lot of feedback indicating that the number of fixing options is somewhere south of where most people would like it to be. I've played with a number of solutions that don't involve investing 150$ into a few cycles of more expensive dual colored lands, and one in particular has stuck out to me, if for no other reason than being particularly novel:
What if, just like how every player has access to any number of basic lands they might need, every player is given the option of adding any number of guildgates to their decks during deck construction?
I shelved the idea as idle fancy, but in hindsight it might just have actual merit. As a cube with a casual friendly design mentality, I want to allow players to easily avoid color screw and this takes a major steps toward doing just that. It also makes it so far fewer picks have to be devoted toward mana fixing, meaning more picks will be about the bombtastic cards the cube is all about. It also makes drafting 4 packs (rather than 5) seem like a more attractive option, which is a benefit when 5 pack drafts seem to overstay their welcome.
The perceived downsides also seem easy enough to reason away; basics will still be valid, as an all-Guildgate mana based would nearly be time-walking yourself, so you'd still have to consider the mix. It doesn't actually discourage aggro, as those decks can opt to play more basics, and since other decks are more encouraged to play slower manabases aggro/voltron actually gets a tangible edge from such a change. There will still be a healthy few nonbasics in the cube, as utility lands are still present, and non etbt lands that fix all your colors are still worthwhile. (Like Command Tower or City of Brass)
Personal bias is probably slanting my views toward the idea, so I'd like to get some outside opinions. A few questions to be answered:
- Does this seem like a reasonable idea?
- Should this warrant some gate themed includes? (Smelt-Ward Gatekeepers would seem fairly reasonable)
- Would this warrant taking out the guild bouncelands? They're still minor card advantage, but if they're not needed as fixing, and they're more likely to bounce a etbt land are they worth it?
- How many guildgates and how many basics would you run in most 60 card 2 color decks? What about 3 color decks?
- How many of each Guildgate should I have, provided a maximum player count of 8 and 60 card decks?
- No, but really: How stupid is this idea?
I think you can manage enough fixing cards in your Cube without resorting to expensive cycles.
10x Guildgates
10x KTK Refuge Lands
10x Bouncelands
10x Some cheap cycle like Painlands or Checklands. Even just hodge-podge this one.
I run 4 cycles of lands in my cube and it's been fine.
It's become less out of necessity and more a curious idea. I'll probably stick with the status quo, but I like to think about the idea. Right now I have:
- Vivids (Really great because a lot of decks can use these despite color identity.)
- Panoramas (Same as above)
- Bouncelands
- Guildgates
- Khans refuges
- A full cycle of mana rocks.
- Half a dozen 5 color lands or 5 color mana rocks.
The cube is probably perfectly solid, but I'm just endulging in a novel idea.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Since you're running a multi-player EDH cube, your cube is very different from I think it will be difficult for a lot of people to give you relevant advice, so you might want to try reposting your question in the multiplayer/EDH cube thread in the Card and Archetype Evaluation forum. In my cube, I actually like the tension that comes from players having to choose between drafting the best lands possible for their mana bases and choosing spells. However, I think that since your players are drafting 60 cards to make a 60 card deck as opposed to 45 cards for a 40 card deck, and your players have the additional deckbuilding constraint of the EDH color identity rule mana fixing might be more problematic in drafting your cube than a traditional cube even without your budget restraints, so I can't say I blame you for trying to come up with a creative solution.
Off the top of my head, it seems like the worst thing that could happen if you try just making unlimited guild gates available along with the high number of gold spells in your cube is that it could make it too easy to build multicolor control decks, but then again classic control decks aren't usually all that great in multiplayer EDH decks, so who knows? There's no harm in giving it a try.
Another thing you might try if you want to make it easier to get more non-basic lands into your drafts by including them in a separate utility land draft. There's an article on Channel Fireball about how this works here.
Finally, I noticed that you are already using just about every kind of fixer available at common/uncommon, which means they all come into play tapped every time which hurts aggressive strategies tremendously. The best duals (ABU duals, fetches, shocks, filters) do cost a pretty penny, but there are some cheaper options that are pretty reasonable. I'm a big fan of pain lands (e.g. Adarkar Wastes), and most of them are available for under $2 each. You can get World Championship Editions of a lot of them (and City of Brass) for less than $0.50 apiece if you don't mind gold borders (trollandtoad.com sells them as singles). Even the enemy colored ones are cheaper than ever thanks to the M15 reprint. Most of the check lands from M10 and Innistrad (e.g. Glacial Fortress) are also available for $1-$2 apiece. They're only good for black pairs, but the Tainted cycle (e.g. Tainted Wood) also sells for $0.30-$0.50 each.
Hope this helps!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Since you're running a multi-player EDH cube, your cube is very different from I think it will be difficult for a lot of people to give you relevant advice, so you might want to try reposting your question in the multiplayer/EDH cube thread in the Card and Archetype Evaluation forum. In my cube, I actually like the tension that comes from players having to choose between drafting the best lands possible for their mana bases and choosing spells. However, I think that since your players are drafting 60 cards to make a 60 card deck as opposed to 45 cards for a 40 card deck, and your players have the additional deckbuilding constraint of the EDH color identity rule mana fixing might be more problematic in drafting your cube than a traditional cube even without your budget restraints, so I can't say I blame you for trying to come up with a creative solution.
Off the top of my head, it seems like the worst thing that could happen if you try just making unlimited guild gates available along with the high number of gold spells in your cube is that it could make it too easy to build multicolor control decks, but then again classic control decks aren't usually all that great in multiplayer EDH decks, so who knows? There's no harm in giving it a try.
Another thing you might try if you want to make it easier to get more non-basic lands into your drafts by including them in a separate utility land draft. There's an article on Channel Fireball about how this works here.
Finally, I noticed that you are already using just about every kind of fixer available at common/uncommon, which means they all come into play tapped every time which hurts aggressive strategies tremendously. The best duals (ABU duals, fetches, shocks, filters) do cost a pretty penny, but there are some cheaper options that are pretty reasonable. I'm a big fan of pain lands (e.g. Adarkar Wastes), and most of them are available for under $2 each. You can get World Championship Editions of a lot of them (and City of Brass) for less than $0.50 apiece if you don't mind gold borders (trollandtoad.com sells them as singles). Even the enemy colored ones are cheaper than ever thanks to the M15 reprint. Most of the check lands from M10 and Innistrad (e.g. Glacial Fortress) are also available for $1-$2 apiece. They're only good for black pairs, but the Tainted cycle (e.g. Tainted Wood) also sells for $0.30-$0.50 each.
Hope this helps!
After opening a couple of flooded strands in my one limited event I get to play a season, I might see if I can't leverage them into an whole set of not terrible lands each, practically. I should also really look into the gold bordered lands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
After opening a couple of flooded strands in my one limited event I get to play a season, I might see if I can't leverage them into an whole set of not terrible lands each, practically. I should also really look into the gold bordered lands.
You lucky SOB! I did 4 prereleases and only pulled one fetch. That sounds like a good plan, though, I was able to trade an Elspeth and a foil Thoughtseize for 4 shocks to fill out a big chunk of my manabase. I'm a huge fan of World Championship editions, a lot of them are a fraction of what you'd pay for the non-gold bordered editions of the same card. The only place I know of to buy World Championship cards as singles is Troll and Toad, here's a link to that section of their site: http://www.trollandtoad.com/Magic-The-Gathering/8730.html
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I probably shouldn't mention the wooded foothills as well... :3 Khans was very good to me and my compulsion to open prize packs.
:/ It looks like only two of the ally ones are in stock. I dunno. I'd probably just rather spring for a full set of black bordered to keep it consistent. Painlands and checklands are definitely the ones I'd go with, since I already have a few of each. I should probably just swallow my pride and proxy the ones I don't have for the time being.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'd like to pose an idea I've been pondering for a while to the forum, and I'll try and outline the issue as clearly as possible so that I might produce some productive feedback on the matter: I've been having some issues with mana fixing in my EDH cube which have in a large part stemmed from my limited budget, and as a result I've gotten a lot of feedback indicating that the number of fixing options is somewhere south of where most people would like it to be. I've played with a number of solutions that don't involve investing 150$ into a few cycles of more expensive dual colored lands, and one in particular has stuck out to me, if for no other reason than being particularly novel:
What if, just like how every player has access to any number of basic lands they might need, every player is given the option of adding any number of guildgates to their decks during deck construction?
I shelved the idea as idle fancy, but in hindsight it might just have actual merit. As a cube with a casual friendly design mentality, I want to allow players to easily avoid color screw and this takes a major steps toward doing just that. It also makes it so far fewer picks have to be devoted toward mana fixing, meaning more picks will be about the bombtastic cards the cube is all about. It also makes drafting 4 packs (rather than 5) seem like a more attractive option, which is a benefit when 5 pack drafts seem to overstay their welcome.
The perceived downsides also seem easy enough to reason away; basics will still be valid, as an all-Guildgate mana based would nearly be time-walking yourself, so you'd still have to consider the mix. It doesn't actually discourage aggro, as those decks can opt to play more basics, and since other decks are more encouraged to play slower manabases aggro/voltron actually gets a tangible edge from such a change. There will still be a healthy few nonbasics in the cube, as utility lands are still present, and non etbt lands that fix all your colors are still worthwhile. (Like Command Tower or City of Brass)
Personal bias is probably slanting my views toward the idea, so I'd like to get some outside opinions. A few questions to be answered:
- Does this seem like a reasonable idea?
- Should this warrant some gate themed includes? (Smelt-Ward Gatekeepers would seem fairly reasonable)
- Would this warrant taking out the guild bouncelands? They're still minor card advantage, but if they're not needed as fixing, and they're more likely to bounce a etbt land are they worth it?
- How many guildgates and how many basics would you run in most 60 card 2 color decks? What about 3 color decks?
- How many of each Guildgate should I have, provided a maximum player count of 8 and 60 card decks?
- No, but really: How stupid is this idea?
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
10x Guildgates
10x KTK Refuge Lands
10x Bouncelands
10x Some cheap cycle like Painlands or Checklands. Even just hodge-podge this one.
I run 4 cycles of lands in my cube and it's been fine.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
It's become less out of necessity and more a curious idea. I'll probably stick with the status quo, but I like to think about the idea. Right now I have:
- Vivids (Really great because a lot of decks can use these despite color identity.)
- Panoramas (Same as above)
- Bouncelands
- Guildgates
- Khans refuges
- A full cycle of mana rocks.
- Half a dozen 5 color lands or 5 color mana rocks.
The cube is probably perfectly solid, but I'm just endulging in a novel idea.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Off the top of my head, it seems like the worst thing that could happen if you try just making unlimited guild gates available along with the high number of gold spells in your cube is that it could make it too easy to build multicolor control decks, but then again classic control decks aren't usually all that great in multiplayer EDH decks, so who knows? There's no harm in giving it a try.
Another thing you might try if you want to make it easier to get more non-basic lands into your drafts by including them in a separate utility land draft. There's an article on Channel Fireball about how this works here.
Finally, I noticed that you are already using just about every kind of fixer available at common/uncommon, which means they all come into play tapped every time which hurts aggressive strategies tremendously. The best duals (ABU duals, fetches, shocks, filters) do cost a pretty penny, but there are some cheaper options that are pretty reasonable. I'm a big fan of pain lands (e.g. Adarkar Wastes), and most of them are available for under $2 each. You can get World Championship Editions of a lot of them (and City of Brass) for less than $0.50 apiece if you don't mind gold borders (trollandtoad.com sells them as singles). Even the enemy colored ones are cheaper than ever thanks to the M15 reprint. Most of the check lands from M10 and Innistrad (e.g. Glacial Fortress) are also available for $1-$2 apiece. They're only good for black pairs, but the Tainted cycle (e.g. Tainted Wood) also sells for $0.30-$0.50 each.
Hope this helps!
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
After opening a couple of flooded strands in my one limited event I get to play a season, I might see if I can't leverage them into an whole set of not terrible lands each, practically. I should also really look into the gold bordered lands.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
You lucky SOB! I did 4 prereleases and only pulled one fetch. That sounds like a good plan, though, I was able to trade an Elspeth and a foil Thoughtseize for 4 shocks to fill out a big chunk of my manabase. I'm a huge fan of World Championship editions, a lot of them are a fraction of what you'd pay for the non-gold bordered editions of the same card. The only place I know of to buy World Championship cards as singles is Troll and Toad, here's a link to that section of their site: http://www.trollandtoad.com/Magic-The-Gathering/8730.html
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
:/ It looks like only two of the ally ones are in stock. I dunno. I'd probably just rather spring for a full set of black bordered to keep it consistent. Painlands and checklands are definitely the ones I'd go with, since I already have a few of each. I should probably just swallow my pride and proxy the ones I don't have for the time being.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)