I've been cubing for about....5 years now. I decided to quit competitive Magic because, of all things, it was too expensive; and then I decided to build a cube...and pimp it out entirely. I have a powered 540 cube, btw.
Needless to say, I've been working away at pimping it, essentially getting the most expensive/rarest version of every card (English only, I don't like foreign cards). I take incredibly good care of my cards both physically and on paper, so I'm kind of making it an investment I can have fun with.
I'm about 200 cards away from 100% completely pimped, but upon totaling up the approximate cost, I found it to be over $25,000 left!
Now, there's no way I can afford that...in the next 5 or 10 years even.
Does anyone have any suggestions how best to fund or make this happen? I know there are completely pimped cubes out there...someone has to know how to do it! Here's my way of getting cards:
1) Never buy cards from new sets until they rotate out of standard unless I spot their potential before they boom. Pre-sale is the worst!
2) After upgrading cards from my cube, I sell off the non-pimped version, so I only eat the difference in cost between the final version for my cube and the version I have
3) When cards from the cube fall by the wayside are come out, I sell them or trade them (if pimped versions) a premium for regular, non-foil cards which then go the way of #2.
4) Buy GP/Pro-Tour/Promo/Textless/Etc cards right when they come out, because they will, almost without a doubt, go up in value. This sort of goes for any card that I see potential in...like stocks, buy low and sell before the bubble pops. I can skim some extra dough from the secondary market to put into my cube.
5) I've assigned a "priority" number to the cards I still have to pimp. 1-5, "1" meaning that the card will likely never leave the cube (staples like P9, swords to plowshares, counterspell, force of will, etc), "3" meaning this is a solid card with longevity in the cube (ex, Silverblade Paladin, Mulldrifter), and "5" meaning that the card is going to get cut, it's just a matter of when (ex, Stolen Identity). I try to pimp out the cards with the higher priority number first (well...the lowest priority number, which oddly enough are the highest priority cards). That way I'm not blowing money on cards that are going to get cut anyway.
Magic cards are expensive, and unnecessary "pimp" is even more so. You didn't pick a hobby that was cheap, my friend! Unfortunately I think that your way is the best way to go, with one exception: easily obtainable promos like GP and FNM promos usually dip quite a bit before they spike, so there's that to consider. Otherwise your points are solid and logically sound, it's just a matter of making the investment.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
^ Also, I'd assume most of the cost from the remaining 25k lies in beta/alpha duals and power, right? That's simply just a cost you have to eat: they'll never get any cheaper than they are, and they go up at a decently steady rate.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
I buy MP or Damaged foils whenever possible, save a big chunk of change and doesn't matter when played in sleeves amongst friends. Of course it does matter when you view your cube as an investment and want to sell it sometime down the road. I'm never going to sell my cube so i'm fine with buying bent in half foils, so your call on that.
I also go with the cheaper pimp if possible, but that directly contradicts with your stated goal of getting the most expensive/rarest version of every card. I had a choice of mercadian masques foil brainstorm for $90 and fnm foil brainstorm for $45 side by side, i ended up going with the fnm foil for half the price. Couldn't justify paying double for the more pimp version. Decisions like this will come up alot and I'm sure you've already had to make these decisions many many times already, so you already know which direction you want to go in these cases.
And interesting dilemma that I'm facing now is when the most expensive/rarest version of the card is not the most pimp version of the card. I think most people can agree that Beta is most pimp and the Beta Demonic Tutor with the iconic artwork is easily the most pimp version. Yet the Judge foil Demonic Tutor with the ugly artwork and super rarity is actually 3x the price of beta. So do I want to "upgrade" my beta Demonic Tutor to the judge foil? I don't know. What would you do given your stated goal for your cube?
All your other points are valid and I agree completely. It's a long but satisfying process to slowly pimp out your cube, gotta have patience if your not loaded with cash.
OK, I have been waiting for someone to post a thread like this for the longest time. I made a similiar thread and got no real response other than "Ya that sounds good" or "Maybe you just shouldn't do it" answers. You literally talked about every single point that I asked about just from the other point of view as someone who is reflecting back as opposed to just starting.
I too have similar goals to have the "PIMP" cube. I just have recently bought several high value cards and would like to share my thoughts.
While my cube is not finished by any means i'm going to give each of these a shot.
Does anyone have any suggestions how best to fund or make this happen? I know there are completely pimped cubes out there...someone has to know how to do it!
It is hard to talk in general about card value because it is my experience that there are different kinds of card value similar to your priority in which I also have a "Code".
I too prioritize these very highly. These are the most likely to skyrocket out of nowhere. The reason, because they are easily buylisted to major corporations who are not in any rush to get rid of them. (Try to find a JP Stifle)
I personally don't buy the version of the card that is NOT Pimp because usually I don't need it nor will it help me to just have in my cube. For this reason it is easier for me to justify buying a card because for one, I am usually only going to buy a singleton copy. In which once I have my one copy there isn't any reason to have any more. I won't buy them because I just don't need them. You did reference making money off of some cards that you had multiples of, which I believe is a very good opportunity and should be taken advantage of. However, I often find myself and many of my friends to hold on to a card for too long, or become attached to the card so they will never trade/sell or are very unlikely to. This can be very counterproductive. You originally planned to buy a piece of power but now you don't want to let your extra copies of "X" cards go away. So you may be making money in the long run but are back to square one.
This really depends on the person and what you are truly looking for. The dedication of building a pimp cube on a "somewhat" budget is something that many people do not have or get side tracked on.
Vintage Cards
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Vintage cards on the other hand require a bit of great timing, luck and knowing the guy who knows the guy. It is my experience that you are more likely to get a good if not great deal on a vintage card when seriously looking because the market is SOOO small. Small stores may have a black lotus in a case for a YEARS before a serious customer actually inquires. Let alone the power that you the consumer has over the seller because of such a small market. Vintage cards are the kind of thing that are only worth value if you are willing to pay that price. There is a reason that many of the larger retailers have the same copies of expensive cards staying in their inventories. I would also recommend maybe talking with people in your community. You never know what neighbor has that one box in their attic, or your co worker who has a son who played years ago. These are the ways that I was able to come in contact and obtain vintage cards very easily.
Set a Rule/ Identify Your Card Market
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As someone mentioned in this thread, what do you ultimately want?
There is a distinct difference from someone who wants
1. All Foils:nod:
2.The Pimp Edition Foils:cool2:
3. Summer Magic:D
Once again it has been my experience that many people start a cube for various reasons and then come out with something they never expected.
When you say...
I'm about 200 cards away from 100% completely pimped, but upon totaling up the approximate cost, I found it to be over $25,000 left!
What exactly are you talking about? Beta Lands? Alpha Power? Summer Magic? Test Print Foils?
As HammerandSickled said
I'd assume most of the cost from the remaining 25k lies in beta/alpha duals and power, right? That's simply just a cost you have to eat: they'll never get any cheaper than they are, and they go up at a decently steady rate.
When you get into cards like that you are starting to dab into the collections of cards that have had the same owners for years, The have been in the same binder, the same cube and are almost fighting sentimental value at that point. Unless you get lucky and can find someone who needs a quick buck or has had them laying around for no reason.
Once you identify what you want EXACTLY to the T. Set yourself a timetable. Say I want an alpha dual land by this day. One month from now or Six Months from now or even years from now you just need to keep thinking about your goal. Don't stray away from it unless you ABSOLUTELY have to.
Be That Guy
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Another thing in which I believe has greatly benefitted me was being that guy. When I say that guy I don't mean the man who reeks of feces but that guy who is always looking for the high end cards. Whether that is through trade, cash half and half. Let your local store owners know that you are VERY interested in specific cards and would like them to look out for you. After buying a piece of power at my local card shop, I was always notified whenever something crazy was sold to the store or there is a customer in the area who is trying to sell off XY&Z.
Making friends with your locals is probably the best way to do it. Not only are you going to come in contact with people who have similar interests but also possibly join forces and look for what the other person wants, so you can hit two birds with one stone.
Continuing with your local resources, take some time to visit those shops in which you never do. Whether that's on the other side of Chicago or across the valley or just down the road. These places are new territory and may have the card in which you are looking for. Seeking out stores when traveling is also another great idea. If you are going to be somewhere you are not familiar with why not see what it has to offer! I can't tell you how many times I've been traveling and seen deals on stuff that would be impossible to find back home.
Remember that different locations have different metas, so the possibility of finding cards in certain areas may be higher or lower depending on the location, however so is the chance of something sitting.
Finally to wrap it up, have fun! After all you are doing this to play cards and for your personal collection. Building a cube shouldn't be a job because the day it becomes one you will no longer want to continue.
For whatever reason you are building your cube. I only wish you luck on finishing it and the best of time while.
Merfolk Magic.
PS: Can you give me any thoughts and experiences or possible recommendations?
I was fortunate to have invested in loads of my cube staples in foil a long time ago, before the explosion of popularity and the emergence of Modern and Commander. Also my set of Collector's Edition (actually mine is International Edition) for the power and dual lands. These will accumulate value over time and are a very safe bet. My recommendation is to hold off on foils of things that are staples but which are guaranteed a reprint. Fetches for example. Get the stuff you need as it rotates out of Standard!
The one single thing that I have found to be the most beneficial in obtaining Cube pimp?
People who like your Cube.
Once people play your Cube and enjoy it (especially those who have done it multiple times), they are very willing to seek out and find those pimp cards for you. They become part of that world, and they want to see the project finished. Almost every single person who has done it for me has either:
- traded it to me for what they used to get it (just replacing their trade stock)
- offered it for the same value they traded away for it
- donated it to the Cube
Very rarely has someone offered to trade for cards for me and then tried to turn a profit on me; the one who did that recently I cut off from trading with me because he was trading for foil mythics that were going to depress in value, and then trading them to me at current market value when he was giving significantly less (A perfect example is foil Aurelia's Fury: No way would I have traded for it at 25-30, but I included as part of a list of cards I was 'looking out for' thinking that I would get a text for approval as I had done previously...nope, and after learning they only traded 10-15 for it sealed the deal as someone I wasn't going to trade with any longer).
As Donny Osmond said, one bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch (girl), so I continue to use this pipeline as the primary source of pimp, since I don't go out and play Magic as much as I used to. I even have a good friend who is now in Texas who still sends me cards (Foil Sylvan Library and Foil Purphorous are on the way as I type this)!
interesting dilemma that I'm facing now is when the most expensive/rarest version of the card is not the most pimp version of the card....So do I want to "upgrade" my beta Demonic Tutor to the judge foil? I don't know. What would you do given your stated goal for your cube?
I've made some concesssions. If there are two versions of a card that look exactly the same except one has one set symbol and one has another, but the difference between prices is significant...I'll generally just go for the cheaper. Now, if we're talking same art, but old border vs. new border? I pick old border...at that point to me, it's aesthetics that count.
As for your scenario...it's tough because I have two cubes. One is my regular 540 and another is a '94 and before only which is alpha, beta, etc versions only. So I tend to put the foiled versions of older cards in my 540 and the originals in my '94 & Before cube. :/ That's a judgment call you have to make based on what you value in the cube: foil vs nonfoil, cost, or rarity.
I regularly put the most pimped version of older cards into my 540 (example, I just bought a foil Icy Manipulator for my 540 even though I have a NM+ Beta Icy Manipulator...but that's in my other cube :D).
@Antknee: I've been moving around a lot the last few years, so it's been hard to find a stable group of people to cube with. But that is a great idea!
What exactly are you talking about? Beta Lands? Alpha Power? Summer Magic? Test Print Foils?
PS: Can you give me any thoughts and experiences or possible recommendations?
At this point, I'm not dipping into super-rarity stuff like Summer Magic or test prints or anything. I don't have the kind of cash for this, so I definitely don't have the cash for Summer Magic haha I'm essentially looking for the most expensive of the regular prints of cards like foil vs. FNM vs. Judge vs. GP vs. media promo vs. etc... If I got into Summer Magic and the like, I'd never finish my cube and I'd be living in a box.
And yes, beta lands, alpha/beta power, etc. The comprise a good chunk of what I have left, but I still have a long list of $100 judge promos and older foils that really REALLY add up.
As for my experiences and recommendations...
1) Proxy rather than buying cards that you don't consider the "final" iteration of the card in your cube. (Rather than trading for or buying non-pimp versions just so you can still play with them.) You'll end up saving money in the long run.
2) Don't buy packs/boxes hoping to get cards you need. This has been discussed ad infinitum before. Just think that each sealed product you buy could have been money spent actually buying the cards you need.
3) Look around the holidays for deals on websites. Believe it or not, some good cube staples can be found!
4) Go to flea markets and conventions. There are amazing deals to be had. I got the most mintiest Force of Will I've ever seen at a place in CA for $45 last year...why? No reason. The guy was just selling it for that price...just like...he didn't care.
5) Stay away from websites and eBay if you're looking to get the best deals on the regular...honestly. Check out what people are selling on forums! They generally have cards they want to get rid of and they don't mind undercutting stores and eBay because they just want their cards GONE.
6) Find a website to sell your unwanted cards to that gives the biggest premium for store credit. You can roll over some serious cash if you're just looking to grab store credit.
7) Holidays & birthdays, man. Instead of saying "eh...just socks and a tie", ask for a few good cube cards...you won't be disappointed! Significant others or family members may scoff at the price tag on a playing card, so be warned. But just think:
Christmas List:
1) Force of Will
2) SDCC Ajani, Caller of the Pride
3) Foil Liliana of the Veil
4) ......
Other than that...the best thing I've done is assign a priority number to the cards I need. It helps out soooo much.
Around January of 2013 I figured out it would cost me about 10k to finish foiling up my cube/get the CE duals I wanted. After almost a year of buying and selling cards I ran the figures again and saw that it would cost me about 10k to finish foiling out my cube.
I was disheartened. I had spent quite a bit on magic that year and I realized had made no real progress with the rising prices on cube/edh/legacy staples. I ended up throwing in the towel and am now going 100% non foil. The cards are cheaper and easier to read but I'm always sad when I look at all the cards I had foiled.
I wish you all the luck in your endeavors.
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In my opinion, it's not worth trying to get a pimped cube if you're starting out now. Particularly if you're on any kind of budget. If you've got $25,000 left to pimp it out and are worrying about how you're going to get the money for it, I think you've got more important problems
I started my cube in early 2010, and even then, I had missed the boat on a lot of foils that had already risen dramatically.
Nowadays, I don't spend money on magic (I have been buying board games instead). I get the MTG cards I need by trading or doing alters for people. I alter the cards that I can to further pimp my cube.
I think I've already spent ~$12,000 on my cube (which is worth ~$7,000), and the remaining cards I want are worth probably another $10,000. It's a maximally foiled 'this version is my favorite' English full-text only cube.
It's daunting, but as addicting as adding sweet foils is, I understand that there will always be some card that I want to add, and some that I will not want to remove. So I don't need to urgently foil my Mirror Entity, for example, because it might not even be in the cube in a few years.
The ones that aren't in that category are just too expensive for me at the moment, and I'll just have to live with that.
The way I think about my cube is it is my sole hobby and really the only thing I spend money on. I don't soup up my car, I don't have a boat or other automotive toys, I have musical instruments but don't have any reason to buy any more, I don't gamble [much], I very rarely play video games, etc. I might spend a lot of money on Magic, but really, it's my only money sink and the only hobby I truly care about.
I could have a different hobby that's less fun, more expensive, and never offers me anything if I decided to quit it, etc. But I honestly cube every day, even if it is just my girlfriend and me. For as much enjoyment as I get out of it, I think I get a very good value from my cube, whether or not it is "pimped"--though it is exciting and satisfying to get new cards. It's nice to have a goal, to have a project that will continue to evolve and move with me through life.
In fact, if my cube were 100% complete, never to change...I'd probably get sick of it. It's kind of like I said "wow, maintaining a standard deck is too expensive...75 cards that keep rotating in and out? Pbbbbttt no way, Jose......hey...a cube! A 540 card deck that rotates in and out! That's waaaaaay more economical."
I like having pimp cards in my cube, but I also don't go too far out of my way to obtain them. My spreadsheet has a column with the pimp price so I know what I'm looking at as far as the pimp version of cards I still have normal versions of. Right now, to finish buying foils and special versions, it would cost me somewhere around 11K. That also doesn't count any of the cards that I feel would need to be altered in order to achieve "pimped" status. I also left the price off of Imperial Seal because paying that much for a white bordered worse version of Vampiric Tutor is just unacceptable to me.
My buddy works for a prominent retailer and does a lot of cons and shows for them so, because he's at the cons and shows, he usually brings me some good finds afterwards. Mostly, though, I just order my pimp cards from online retailers when I have a little extra cash. I know it's unrealistic for me to think I'll be able to finish this endeavor this year (ever?) on my current budget, but I like picking up some cool stuff here and there. It feels good to swap a nonfoil out for a foil or promo.
It's kind of like I said "wow, maintaining a standard deck is too expensive...75 cards that keep rotating in and out? Pbbbbttt no way, Jose......hey...a cube! A 540 card deck that rotates in and out! That's waaaaaay more economical."
Oh well. I'm stuck with it and I love it.
What you are supposed to do is wait until standard rotates, then pick up the cards. By then you'll be able to know what they're worth and how good they are in cube. It's only the rare multi-format staple that will be expensive at that point, but those are usually pretty obvious and will be expensive regardless.
It's kind of like I said "wow, maintaining a standard deck is too expensive...75 cards that keep rotating in and out? Pbbbbttt no way, Jose......hey...a cube! A 540 card deck that rotates in and out! That's waaaaaay more economical."
Once the baseline of the cube is built, it's significantly cheaper to update than keeping current in Standard is.
Once the baseline of the cube is built, it's significantly cheaper to update than keeping current in Standard is.
Definitely true. Worst case scenario, you need one of every card in a set. And that's unreasonably worst-case. In reality, you need 3-10 cards per expansion. And most of these end up being cheap rares and uncommons, with the occasional exception of chase walkers and other chase mythics (like the gods or Kalonian Hydra), but for the most part, those even become pretty affordable after a few weeks out from the pre-release.
Of course, depending on what kind of Cube you make, your starting investment can be Vintage comparable for powered cubes and at least Legacy comparable for unpowered ones (fetches and duals mostly).
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I love how people who spend a lot on magic cards still look at Imperial Seal and be like, "nope, **** that ****".
Haha! It's the last big piece I'm missing (I'm happy with my International Ed pimped power so luckily I don't need Beta). Been running a proxy Seal forever because as stated above, it's tougher to justify the cost for a white bordered worse version of Vampiric Tutor.. But it's so good and I want one eventually (in Chinese because Romance of the 3 Kingdoms is Chinese!).
I am in the exact same bucket as you. In terms of what I need, the big dollar items are:
Beta P9 (a full set of not horribly damaged is probably some where around $12k.)
Still need Polluted Delta, U Sea, Trop Island, Savannah, Scrubland in terms of duals. (I am doing FBB on the duals. Can't justify the 4x cost of Beta Alpha when I think FBB look great). Total price of about $1500.
Random Legends crap: Tabernacle, Nether Void, the Abyss, Moat, Mana Drain. Again, probably going Italian Legends. I know you don't like foreign cards, but the premium is hard to justify. Total price of about $1500
Still likely have about $5k worth of judge foils and other random cards to purchase, for a total of about $20k.
The counterfeiting scare has made me seriously consider CEing my power, as I can't justify dropping $10k on something that might end up indistinguishable from $20 counterfeits. Hopefully if it looks like indistinguishable fakes are around the bend, Wizards will do something appropriate like a trade-in program to preserve value.
When I started building my cube I was trying to pimp it out, and quickly realized how lofty a goal that really was. Since then I have narrowed my vision to pimpness that I personally appreciate and can afford.
For example: learn to love Unlimited cards. Unlimited duals are still unique and "pimp" on a certain level; they have that old nostalgic look to them & darker color, and they don't break the bank. I upgraded each of my Revised duals to Unlimited.
Besides that, I chose to swap my foils out for non-foils completely and focus on accumulating more awesome Alpha/Beta cards. Foils look sweet, but none have the hotness of an Alpha Animate Dead.
Also, my suggestion from personal experience would be to avoid textless cards, since people using your cube may not always know what every card does during a draft. I now have a binder full of sweet textless cards for trade...
In my opinion, a cube with some pimped out cards has more character than every single card being pimped out anyway.
Foils look sweet, but none have the hotness of an Alpha Animate Dead.
Also, my suggestion from personal experience would be to avoid textless cards, since people using your cube may not always know what every card does during a draft.
This is somewhat contradictory since Alpha cards tend to have some of the most awkward wordings ever for a new player.
Animate Dead is a good example of that, Enchant Dead Creature?
Swords to Plowshares is another one that just sounds too weird in Alpha. I guess some would say nostalgic. But for a newer player, it's probably not much difference between Alpha wordings or Foreign cards or Textless cards.
Oh yea and the worst offender was Icy Manipulator! Alpha one doesn't even have a tap symbol or wording, it's just a mono artifact which most modern day magic players have never even heard of. I finally replaced the Alpha Icy in my cube for a Mirrdoin foil one after too many people tried to use it 10 times per turn.
All and all I would definitely keep going and try to finish. I just started only several months ago and have already dropped $1500 and only have 23 cards. :/
Although looking at this project in which just like most people I want the Pimpest of Pimp. For no real reason other than just because but this is definitely a deterrent. If you are in no real rush to finish (Like me) and have the cash to responsibly buy every now and then whats the reason to stop?
Even if in a couple years, say you want to completely get out of magic. Just sell your cube and you will probably still make more money than you spent.
I am nowhere near finishing at this point but am not in any rush. From the complete 50 of each draft set Foil Unhinged Lands to the few Summer Magic Cards I have lined up, I'm looking at another 3-5 years until it's completely done, but hopefully this christmas it will be playable, just very small.
Also please keep this thread alive I really do enjoy reading what other people have to say.
Maybe this thread could be re-worked into a "How to fund your cube" thread with combined ideas and insight in the first post.
I think most people have the same idea as you "It'll take forever and cost $$$, but when I get out, if I ever do, I'll sell it and make even more $$$!" The problem with that logic is that 99% of those people don't acquire cards in a perfectly economical way and generally even if the prices of the cards went up a bit, they would still be in the hole after selling. That also doesn't take into account that cards fluctuate both way, up and down, in price. While card A was a $30 foil when you got it, maybe it got banned and now is worth $5 (Mental Misstep anyone?) or they simply printed a better version of the card and that card dropped the value of the other. And don't forget periodically replacing the 500+ sleeves on your cube to drain the return you would get on selling your cube.
There's a lot of reasons why your cube won't ever make you money. But there is reason to believe it will hover around what you paid for it. However, the "dividends" and "income" you are paid from your cube are in enjoyment--You might buy a $1500 card and sell it later for exactly the same price; but what did you get? Well, you were absolutely thrilled to receive it, felt accomplished to have finally bought it, your friends fawned over it, AND you got hours and hours of fun out of playing it...I'd say that's a great investment.
Maybe this thread could be re-worked into a "How to fund your cube" thread with combined ideas and insight in the first post.
I think most people have the same idea as you "It'll take forever and cost $$$, but when I get out, if I ever do, I'll sell it and make even more $$$!" The problem with that logic is that 99% of those people don't acquire cards in a perfectly economical way and generally even if the prices of the cards went up a bit, they would still be in the hole after selling. That also doesn't take into account that cards fluctuate both way, up and down, in price. While card A was a $30 foil when you got it, maybe it got banned and now is worth $5 (Mental Misstep anyone?) or they simply printed a better version of the card and that card dropped the value of the other. And don't forget periodically replacing the 500+ sleeves on your cube to drain the return you would get on selling your cube.
There's a lot of reasons why your cube won't ever make you money. But there is reason to believe it will hover around what you paid for it. However, the "dividends" and "income" you are paid from your cube are in enjoyment--You might buy a $1500 card and sell it later for exactly the same price; but what did you get? Well, you were absolutely thrilled to receive it, felt accomplished to have finally bought it, your friends fawned over it, AND you got hours and hours of fun out of playing it...I'd say that's a great investment.
It's a lot riskier today with the giant price increasesin the last couple years, but if you foiled out a cube 4 or 5 years ago (or earlier), you could BUYLIST it for more than what you paid retail.
Now, we may very well be at the height of some of these cards, as some of the foil price tags have gotten to what I view as unsustainably high levels, but you never know. Even if prices do come down, the bottom isn't likely to fall out on most cube staples, since they're also Legacy/ Vintage playable and as foils will still remain scarce. Some of the EDH junk that makes it into cubes is riskier (Eldrazi and such), btu that doesn't make up a lot of the cube staples.
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Needless to say, I've been working away at pimping it, essentially getting the most expensive/rarest version of every card (English only, I don't like foreign cards). I take incredibly good care of my cards both physically and on paper, so I'm kind of making it an investment I can have fun with.
I'm about 200 cards away from 100% completely pimped, but upon totaling up the approximate cost, I found it to be over $25,000 left!
Now, there's no way I can afford that...in the next 5 or 10 years even.
Does anyone have any suggestions how best to fund or make this happen? I know there are completely pimped cubes out there...someone has to know how to do it! Here's my way of getting cards:
1) Never buy cards from new sets until they rotate out of standard unless I spot their potential before they boom. Pre-sale is the worst!
2) After upgrading cards from my cube, I sell off the non-pimped version, so I only eat the difference in cost between the final version for my cube and the version I have
3) When cards from the cube fall by the wayside are come out, I sell them or trade them (if pimped versions) a premium for regular, non-foil cards which then go the way of #2.
4) Buy GP/Pro-Tour/Promo/Textless/Etc cards right when they come out, because they will, almost without a doubt, go up in value. This sort of goes for any card that I see potential in...like stocks, buy low and sell before the bubble pops. I can skim some extra dough from the secondary market to put into my cube.
5) I've assigned a "priority" number to the cards I still have to pimp. 1-5, "1" meaning that the card will likely never leave the cube (staples like P9, swords to plowshares, counterspell, force of will, etc), "3" meaning this is a solid card with longevity in the cube (ex, Silverblade Paladin, Mulldrifter), and "5" meaning that the card is going to get cut, it's just a matter of when (ex, Stolen Identity). I try to pimp out the cards with the higher priority number first (well...the lowest priority number, which oddly enough are the highest priority cards). That way I'm not blowing money on cards that are going to get cut anyway.
Any thoughts from the dedicated cubers out there?
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
I also go with the cheaper pimp if possible, but that directly contradicts with your stated goal of getting the most expensive/rarest version of every card. I had a choice of mercadian masques foil brainstorm for $90 and fnm foil brainstorm for $45 side by side, i ended up going with the fnm foil for half the price. Couldn't justify paying double for the more pimp version. Decisions like this will come up alot and I'm sure you've already had to make these decisions many many times already, so you already know which direction you want to go in these cases.
And interesting dilemma that I'm facing now is when the most expensive/rarest version of the card is not the most pimp version of the card. I think most people can agree that Beta is most pimp and the Beta Demonic Tutor with the iconic artwork is easily the most pimp version. Yet the Judge foil Demonic Tutor with the ugly artwork and super rarity is actually 3x the price of beta. So do I want to "upgrade" my beta Demonic Tutor to the judge foil? I don't know. What would you do given your stated goal for your cube?
All your other points are valid and I agree completely. It's a long but satisfying process to slowly pimp out your cube, gotta have patience if your not loaded with cash.
OK, I have been waiting for someone to post a thread like this for the longest time. I made a similiar thread and got no real response other than "Ya that sounds good" or "Maybe you just shouldn't do it" answers. You literally talked about every single point that I asked about just from the other point of view as someone who is reflecting back as opposed to just starting.
I too have similar goals to have the "PIMP" cube. I just have recently bought several high value cards and would like to share my thoughts.
While my cube is not finished by any means i'm going to give each of these a shot.
It is hard to talk in general about card value because it is my experience that there are different kinds of card value similar to your priority in which I also have a "Code".
FNM/JP's/Special Editions/Rare Foils/etc
-----------------------------------
I too prioritize these very highly. These are the most likely to skyrocket out of nowhere. The reason, because they are easily buylisted to major corporations who are not in any rush to get rid of them. (Try to find a JP Stifle)
I personally don't buy the version of the card that is NOT Pimp because usually I don't need it nor will it help me to just have in my cube. For this reason it is easier for me to justify buying a card because for one, I am usually only going to buy a singleton copy. In which once I have my one copy there isn't any reason to have any more. I won't buy them because I just don't need them. You did reference making money off of some cards that you had multiples of, which I believe is a very good opportunity and should be taken advantage of. However, I often find myself and many of my friends to hold on to a card for too long, or become attached to the card so they will never trade/sell or are very unlikely to. This can be very counterproductive. You originally planned to buy a piece of power but now you don't want to let your extra copies of "X" cards go away. So you may be making money in the long run but are back to square one.
This really depends on the person and what you are truly looking for. The dedication of building a pimp cube on a "somewhat" budget is something that many people do not have or get side tracked on.
Vintage Cards
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Vintage cards on the other hand require a bit of great timing, luck and knowing the guy who knows the guy. It is my experience that you are more likely to get a good if not great deal on a vintage card when seriously looking because the market is SOOO small. Small stores may have a black lotus in a case for a YEARS before a serious customer actually inquires. Let alone the power that you the consumer has over the seller because of such a small market. Vintage cards are the kind of thing that are only worth value if you are willing to pay that price. There is a reason that many of the larger retailers have the same copies of expensive cards staying in their inventories. I would also recommend maybe talking with people in your community. You never know what neighbor has that one box in their attic, or your co worker who has a son who played years ago. These are the ways that I was able to come in contact and obtain vintage cards very easily.
Set a Rule/ Identify Your Card Market
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As someone mentioned in this thread, what do you ultimately want?
There is a distinct difference from someone who wants
1. All Foils:nod:
2.The Pimp Edition Foils:cool2:
3. Summer Magic:D
Once again it has been my experience that many people start a cube for various reasons and then come out with something they never expected.
When you say...
What exactly are you talking about? Beta Lands? Alpha Power? Summer Magic? Test Print Foils?
As HammerandSickled said
When you get into cards like that you are starting to dab into the collections of cards that have had the same owners for years, The have been in the same binder, the same cube and are almost fighting sentimental value at that point. Unless you get lucky and can find someone who needs a quick buck or has had them laying around for no reason.
Once you identify what you want EXACTLY to the T. Set yourself a timetable. Say I want an alpha dual land by this day. One month from now or Six Months from now or even years from now you just need to keep thinking about your goal. Don't stray away from it unless you ABSOLUTELY have to.
Be That Guy
------------
Another thing in which I believe has greatly benefitted me was being that guy. When I say that guy I don't mean the man who reeks of feces but that guy who is always looking for the high end cards. Whether that is through trade, cash half and half. Let your local store owners know that you are VERY interested in specific cards and would like them to look out for you. After buying a piece of power at my local card shop, I was always notified whenever something crazy was sold to the store or there is a customer in the area who is trying to sell off XY&Z.
Making friends with your locals is probably the best way to do it. Not only are you going to come in contact with people who have similar interests but also possibly join forces and look for what the other person wants, so you can hit two birds with one stone.
Continuing with your local resources, take some time to visit those shops in which you never do. Whether that's on the other side of Chicago or across the valley or just down the road. These places are new territory and may have the card in which you are looking for. Seeking out stores when traveling is also another great idea. If you are going to be somewhere you are not familiar with why not see what it has to offer! I can't tell you how many times I've been traveling and seen deals on stuff that would be impossible to find back home.
Remember that different locations have different metas, so the possibility of finding cards in certain areas may be higher or lower depending on the location, however so is the chance of something sitting.
Finally to wrap it up, have fun! After all you are doing this to play cards and for your personal collection. Building a cube shouldn't be a job because the day it becomes one you will no longer want to continue.
For whatever reason you are building your cube. I only wish you luck on finishing it and the best of time while.
Merfolk Magic.
PS: Can you give me any thoughts and experiences or possible recommendations?
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I was fortunate to have invested in loads of my cube staples in foil a long time ago, before the explosion of popularity and the emergence of Modern and Commander. Also my set of Collector's Edition (actually mine is International Edition) for the power and dual lands. These will accumulate value over time and are a very safe bet. My recommendation is to hold off on foils of things that are staples but which are guaranteed a reprint. Fetches for example. Get the stuff you need as it rotates out of Standard!
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
People who like your Cube.
Once people play your Cube and enjoy it (especially those who have done it multiple times), they are very willing to seek out and find those pimp cards for you. They become part of that world, and they want to see the project finished. Almost every single person who has done it for me has either:
- traded it to me for what they used to get it (just replacing their trade stock)
- offered it for the same value they traded away for it
- donated it to the Cube
Very rarely has someone offered to trade for cards for me and then tried to turn a profit on me; the one who did that recently I cut off from trading with me because he was trading for foil mythics that were going to depress in value, and then trading them to me at current market value when he was giving significantly less (A perfect example is foil Aurelia's Fury: No way would I have traded for it at 25-30, but I included as part of a list of cards I was 'looking out for' thinking that I would get a text for approval as I had done previously...nope, and after learning they only traded 10-15 for it sealed the deal as someone I wasn't going to trade with any longer).
As Donny Osmond said, one bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch (girl), so I continue to use this pipeline as the primary source of pimp, since I don't go out and play Magic as much as I used to. I even have a good friend who is now in Texas who still sends me cards (Foil Sylvan Library and Foil Purphorous are on the way as I type this)!
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
I've made some concesssions. If there are two versions of a card that look exactly the same except one has one set symbol and one has another, but the difference between prices is significant...I'll generally just go for the cheaper. Now, if we're talking same art, but old border vs. new border? I pick old border...at that point to me, it's aesthetics that count.
As for your scenario...it's tough because I have two cubes. One is my regular 540 and another is a '94 and before only which is alpha, beta, etc versions only. So I tend to put the foiled versions of older cards in my 540 and the originals in my '94 & Before cube. :/ That's a judgment call you have to make based on what you value in the cube: foil vs nonfoil, cost, or rarity.
I regularly put the most pimped version of older cards into my 540 (example, I just bought a foil Icy Manipulator for my 540 even though I have a NM+ Beta Icy Manipulator...but that's in my other cube :D).
@Antknee: I've been moving around a lot the last few years, so it's been hard to find a stable group of people to cube with. But that is a great idea!
At this point, I'm not dipping into super-rarity stuff like Summer Magic or test prints or anything. I don't have the kind of cash for this, so I definitely don't have the cash for Summer Magic haha I'm essentially looking for the most expensive of the regular prints of cards like foil vs. FNM vs. Judge vs. GP vs. media promo vs. etc... If I got into Summer Magic and the like, I'd never finish my cube and I'd be living in a box.
And yes, beta lands, alpha/beta power, etc. The comprise a good chunk of what I have left, but I still have a long list of $100 judge promos and older foils that really REALLY add up.
As for my experiences and recommendations...
1) Proxy rather than buying cards that you don't consider the "final" iteration of the card in your cube. (Rather than trading for or buying non-pimp versions just so you can still play with them.) You'll end up saving money in the long run.
2) Don't buy packs/boxes hoping to get cards you need. This has been discussed ad infinitum before. Just think that each sealed product you buy could have been money spent actually buying the cards you need.
3) Look around the holidays for deals on websites. Believe it or not, some good cube staples can be found!
4) Go to flea markets and conventions. There are amazing deals to be had. I got the most mintiest Force of Will I've ever seen at a place in CA for $45 last year...why? No reason. The guy was just selling it for that price...just like...he didn't care.
5) Stay away from websites and eBay if you're looking to get the best deals on the regular...honestly. Check out what people are selling on forums! They generally have cards they want to get rid of and they don't mind undercutting stores and eBay because they just want their cards GONE.
6) Find a website to sell your unwanted cards to that gives the biggest premium for store credit. You can roll over some serious cash if you're just looking to grab store credit.
7) Holidays & birthdays, man. Instead of saying "eh...just socks and a tie", ask for a few good cube cards...you won't be disappointed! Significant others or family members may scoff at the price tag on a playing card, so be warned. But just think:
Christmas List:
1) Force of Will
2) SDCC Ajani, Caller of the Pride
3) Foil Liliana of the Veil
4) ......
Other than that...the best thing I've done is assign a priority number to the cards I need. It helps out soooo much.
I was disheartened. I had spent quite a bit on magic that year and I realized had made no real progress with the rising prices on cube/edh/legacy staples. I ended up throwing in the towel and am now going 100% non foil. The cards are cheaper and easier to read but I'm always sad when I look at all the cards I had foiled.
I wish you all the luck in your endeavors.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
I started my cube in early 2010, and even then, I had missed the boat on a lot of foils that had already risen dramatically.
Nowadays, I don't spend money on magic (I have been buying board games instead). I get the MTG cards I need by trading or doing alters for people. I alter the cards that I can to further pimp my cube.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
It's daunting, but as addicting as adding sweet foils is, I understand that there will always be some card that I want to add, and some that I will not want to remove. So I don't need to urgently foil my Mirror Entity, for example, because it might not even be in the cube in a few years.
The ones that aren't in that category are just too expensive for me at the moment, and I'll just have to live with that.
I could have a different hobby that's less fun, more expensive, and never offers me anything if I decided to quit it, etc. But I honestly cube every day, even if it is just my girlfriend and me. For as much enjoyment as I get out of it, I think I get a very good value from my cube, whether or not it is "pimped"--though it is exciting and satisfying to get new cards. It's nice to have a goal, to have a project that will continue to evolve and move with me through life.
In fact, if my cube were 100% complete, never to change...I'd probably get sick of it. It's kind of like I said "wow, maintaining a standard deck is too expensive...75 cards that keep rotating in and out? Pbbbbttt no way, Jose......hey...a cube! A 540 card deck that rotates in and out! That's waaaaaay more economical."
Oh well. I'm stuck with it and I love it.
My buddy works for a prominent retailer and does a lot of cons and shows for them so, because he's at the cons and shows, he usually brings me some good finds afterwards. Mostly, though, I just order my pimp cards from online retailers when I have a little extra cash. I know it's unrealistic for me to think I'll be able to finish this endeavor this year (ever?) on my current budget, but I like picking up some cool stuff here and there. It feels good to swap a nonfoil out for a foil or promo.
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Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
What you are supposed to do is wait until standard rotates, then pick up the cards. By then you'll be able to know what they're worth and how good they are in cube. It's only the rare multi-format staple that will be expensive at that point, but those are usually pretty obvious and will be expensive regardless.
Once the baseline of the cube is built, it's significantly cheaper to update than keeping current in Standard is.
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Definitely true. Worst case scenario, you need one of every card in a set. And that's unreasonably worst-case. In reality, you need 3-10 cards per expansion. And most of these end up being cheap rares and uncommons, with the occasional exception of chase walkers and other chase mythics (like the gods or Kalonian Hydra), but for the most part, those even become pretty affordable after a few weeks out from the pre-release.
Of course, depending on what kind of Cube you make, your starting investment can be Vintage comparable for powered cubes and at least Legacy comparable for unpowered ones (fetches and duals mostly).
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Haha! It's the last big piece I'm missing (I'm happy with my International Ed pimped power so luckily I don't need Beta). Been running a proxy Seal forever because as stated above, it's tougher to justify the cost for a white bordered worse version of Vampiric Tutor.. But it's so good and I want one eventually (in Chinese because Romance of the 3 Kingdoms is Chinese!).
Beta P9 (a full set of not horribly damaged is probably some where around $12k.)
Still need Polluted Delta, U Sea, Trop Island, Savannah, Scrubland in terms of duals. (I am doing FBB on the duals. Can't justify the 4x cost of Beta Alpha when I think FBB look great). Total price of about $1500.
Random Legends crap: Tabernacle, Nether Void, the Abyss, Moat, Mana Drain. Again, probably going Italian Legends. I know you don't like foreign cards, but the premium is hard to justify. Total price of about $1500
Still likely have about $5k worth of judge foils and other random cards to purchase, for a total of about $20k.
The counterfeiting scare has made me seriously consider CEing my power, as I can't justify dropping $10k on something that might end up indistinguishable from $20 counterfeits. Hopefully if it looks like indistinguishable fakes are around the bend, Wizards will do something appropriate like a trade-in program to preserve value.
For example: learn to love Unlimited cards. Unlimited duals are still unique and "pimp" on a certain level; they have that old nostalgic look to them & darker color, and they don't break the bank. I upgraded each of my Revised duals to Unlimited.
Besides that, I chose to swap my foils out for non-foils completely and focus on accumulating more awesome Alpha/Beta cards. Foils look sweet, but none have the hotness of an Alpha Animate Dead.
Also, my suggestion from personal experience would be to avoid textless cards, since people using your cube may not always know what every card does during a draft. I now have a binder full of sweet textless cards for trade...
In my opinion, a cube with some pimped out cards has more character than every single card being pimped out anyway.
This is somewhat contradictory since Alpha cards tend to have some of the most awkward wordings ever for a new player.
Animate Dead is a good example of that, Enchant Dead Creature?
Swords to Plowshares is another one that just sounds too weird in Alpha. I guess some would say nostalgic. But for a newer player, it's probably not much difference between Alpha wordings or Foreign cards or Textless cards.
Oh yea and the worst offender was Icy Manipulator! Alpha one doesn't even have a tap symbol or wording, it's just a mono artifact which most modern day magic players have never even heard of. I finally replaced the Alpha Icy in my cube for a Mirrdoin foil one after too many people tried to use it 10 times per turn.
Although looking at this project in which just like most people I want the Pimpest of Pimp. For no real reason other than just because but this is definitely a deterrent. If you are in no real rush to finish (Like me) and have the cash to responsibly buy every now and then whats the reason to stop?
Even if in a couple years, say you want to completely get out of magic. Just sell your cube and you will probably still make more money than you spent.
I am nowhere near finishing at this point but am not in any rush. From the complete 50 of each draft set Foil Unhinged Lands to the few Summer Magic Cards I have lined up, I'm looking at another 3-5 years until it's completely done, but hopefully this christmas it will be playable, just very small.
Also please keep this thread alive I really do enjoy reading what other people have to say.
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I think most people have the same idea as you "It'll take forever and cost $$$, but when I get out, if I ever do, I'll sell it and make even more $$$!" The problem with that logic is that 99% of those people don't acquire cards in a perfectly economical way and generally even if the prices of the cards went up a bit, they would still be in the hole after selling. That also doesn't take into account that cards fluctuate both way, up and down, in price. While card A was a $30 foil when you got it, maybe it got banned and now is worth $5 (Mental Misstep anyone?) or they simply printed a better version of the card and that card dropped the value of the other. And don't forget periodically replacing the 500+ sleeves on your cube to drain the return you would get on selling your cube.
There's a lot of reasons why your cube won't ever make you money. But there is reason to believe it will hover around what you paid for it. However, the "dividends" and "income" you are paid from your cube are in enjoyment--You might buy a $1500 card and sell it later for exactly the same price; but what did you get? Well, you were absolutely thrilled to receive it, felt accomplished to have finally bought it, your friends fawned over it, AND you got hours and hours of fun out of playing it...I'd say that's a great investment.
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It's a lot riskier today with the giant price increasesin the last couple years, but if you foiled out a cube 4 or 5 years ago (or earlier), you could BUYLIST it for more than what you paid retail.
Now, we may very well be at the height of some of these cards, as some of the foil price tags have gotten to what I view as unsustainably high levels, but you never know. Even if prices do come down, the bottom isn't likely to fall out on most cube staples, since they're also Legacy/ Vintage playable and as foils will still remain scarce. Some of the EDH junk that makes it into cubes is riskier (Eldrazi and such), btu that doesn't make up a lot of the cube staples.