There is someone further back in the thread who claimed to have his entire cube in toploaders.
I double sleeve, and I agree with wtwlf, I wouldn't go any farther than perfect hards. As much as I love cube, if someone asked me to play and then opened their cube box and everything was in toploaders, I'd probably suggest playing a different game instead. It just sounds onerous.
It really is the nice thing about having my entire cube proxied. I don't really care about theft or the cards getting scuffed up.
I'm actually currently working on another cube that is built to be so budget that sleeves don't make sense. I just bought 120 cards for it last night and it was $10 shipped.
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Calvin and Hobbes Cube Tutor
Might be a fun experience to see what it feels like to play with top loaded decks.
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We resleeved with KMC hypers about two or so years ago. They were the worst sleeves I've ever used and I played back in the late 90s when all you could get were red and black Ultra Pros. We've since sleeved with Ultra Pro Eclipse. The quality on them is great as far as durability and shuffle feel goes, but one box won't sleeve the whole cube, so we had to purchase for two batches. Unfortunately that resulted in two different heights, so beware if you decide to go that direction. I'd recommend for a single deck, but I don't think I'd go Eclipse for something as large as a cube again.
We resleeved with KMC hypers about two or so years ago. They were the worst sleeves I've ever used and I played back in the late 90s when all you could get were red and black Ultra Pros. We've since sleeved with Ultra Pro Eclipse. The quality on them is great as far as durability and shuffle feel goes, but one box won't sleeve the whole cube, so we had to purchase for two batches. Unfortunately that resulted in two different heights, so beware if you decide to go that direction. I'd recommend for a single deck, but I don't think I'd go Eclipse for something as large as a cube again.
What do you mean by, "two different heights"? Is the difference with a single sleeved card between batches that dramatic in height? That's nuts.
What do you mean by, "two different heights"? Is the difference with a single sleeved card between batches that dramatic in height? That's nuts.
Here's the cube with the cards standing up right. You can visibly see the obvious difference in height between the batches.
Under normal circumstances without the height issue, I love Eclipse sleeves. The quality is great. The shuffle feel is great. With this height issue, though, I really dislike them. They feel terrible to shuffle. I've since picked up a few packs here and there that have matched the taller sleeves to try to off set it some, but I sleeved the basics first, so they are all in the shorter sleeves. I've thought about just picking up another case to try to match one or the other, but I really don't need that many extra sleeves.
I posted this pic to the UltraPro Facebook hoping they'd recognize the issue, but I got no responses.
I've had the same issue (noticeably inconsistent size) with Ultra Pro sleeves before, although I believe it was a different line than Eclipse.
For those complaining about the quality of KMC, there was a response posted earlier in the thread. KMC claims this was the results of knock-offs being sold as authentic KMCs on Amazon by 3rd party sellers. I have no idea whether this is true or not. I purchased my KMC sleeves around the time that complaints began popping up and mine have been great so far. (My cube is still in the original sleeves after several years and we've only lost a few to splitting, but my group doesn't get together as often as some do.)
I've had the same issue (noticeably inconsistent size) with Ultra Pro sleeves before, although I believe it was a different line than Eclipse.
For those complaining about the quality of KMC, there was a response posted earlier in the thread. KMC claims this was the results of knock-offs being sold as authentic KMCs on Amazon by 3rd party sellers. I have no idea whether this is true or not. I purchased my KMC sleeves around the time that complaints began popping up and mine have been great so far. (My cube is still in the original sleeves after several years and we've only lost a few to splitting, but my group doesn't get together as often as some do.)
The best sleeves we've ever had on the cube are KMC Mattes. We replaced those after about three years of use with KMC Hypers about the time that the bad batches were popping up. The Hypers were arguably the worst sleeves I've ever used in terms of quality. We split multiple sleeves every cube night and they were really bad about busting across the bottom. I had good experience with the Eclipse sleeves and using them on various decks, so that's why I went with them for the cube. Obviously that was a mistake, though. If I could just always get those same original KMC Mattes, I'd use those forever.
I used KMC Hyper Mattes (clear ones) for ~2 years.
Then I decided to finally include double-faced cards and read about the quality decline.
I was confused and waited some months and at that point I read about a new line of KMC Hyper Mattes (black) that were like the old ones before the temporary quality decline.
Look out for this package style, don't buy other package styles because it could be from the bad quality batches. I would advice not to buy them on Amazon but instead in your local MTG store
I am using these new Hyper Mattes for around 4 months now and they are satisfying. There was not a single split sleeve and they did not wear off too much. I have a sideboard with cards that are not drafted each time and if I compare them with the cards that are frequently played, then I can not really tell the difference on first sight, which is enough for me. It's not like I must play the cards on a tournament
I’ve finally hit the point where I need to resleeve my cube (it’s frankly overdue, but I was attached to the old-quality KMC Hypers). Has anyone here tried out the new Ultimate Guard Katana sleeves? I’ve heard good things from players who’ve sleeves Constructed decks with them, but given their higher price-point ($12/pack) and relative difficulty finding them in colors other than transparent and white near me, I was curious if anyone’s had experience using them for cube. I may take the plunge if no one’s tried them, and will report back if that’s the case.
EDIT: This also assumes that I can find them at anywhere near list price. Looks like they’re out of stock or marked up to double MARP right now depending on where you look, since they’ve just been released. The Professor’s review of them compares them to golden-age KMC Hypers, though, so that’s encouraging!
What do you mean by, "two different heights"? Is the difference with a single sleeved card between batches that dramatic in height? That's nuts.
Here's the cube with the cards standing up right. You can visibly see the obvious difference in height between the batches.
Under normal circumstances without the height issue, I love Eclipse sleeves. The quality is great. The shuffle feel is great. With this height issue, though, I really dislike them. They feel terrible to shuffle. I've since picked up a few packs here and there that have matched the taller sleeves to try to off set it some, but I sleeved the basics first, so they are all in the shorter sleeves. I've thought about just picking up another case to try to match one or the other, but I really don't need that many extra sleeves.
I posted this pic to the UltraPro Facebook hoping they'd recognize the issue, but I got no responses.
Oh..... I see. I thought you were talking about them stacked, I.e. Thickness. What a goof I am!
Yeah, my experience has been spotty with Ultra-Pro and their tolerances. I can see having a 3+/-mm or so tolerance on their penny sleeves. But it gets pretty damn ridiculus when the 1 or 2 mm tolerance on their pro-fits and a similar tolerances on their deck sleeves mean double sleeved cards can stick out of the top.
Even the cheaper BCW sleeves have much tighter tolerances.
Really the only reason I have to buy Ultra-Pro is their ubiquitousness with the market. Stores that offer Dragon or KMC are typically sold out whenever I really need to buy them and have a ton on hand when I don't need to buy any.
Has anyone here tried out the new Ultimate Guard Katana sleeves?
I haven't even been able to get a single pack to sleeve a random deck in order to test them. My LGS can't keep them in stock. I do have a friend who ordered some online. He let me check them out and shuffle them when he got them, so I can vouch for the look and the shuffle feel on a small sample size. Just based on that, assuming you could get them for a decent price and there aren't any quality issues between cases when buying that many, it seems like a good sleeve option.
Oh..... I see. I thought you were talking about them stacked, I.e. Thickness. What a goof I am!
Yeah, my experience has been spotty with Ultra-Pro and their tolerances. I can see having a 3+/-mm or so tolerance on their penny sleeves. But it gets pretty damn ridiculus when the 1 or 2 mm tolerance on their pro-fits and a similar tolerances on their deck sleeves mean double sleeved cards can stick out of the top.
Even the cheaper BCW sleeves have much tighter tolerances.
Really the only reason I have to buy Ultra-Pro is their ubiquitousness with the market. Stores that offer Dragon or KMC are typically sold out whenever I really need to buy them and have a ton on hand when I don't need to buy any.
This reply was six months in the making. lol
I would offer an update on the Eclipse sleeves, but there's not much to offer. The unfortunate discrepancy in sleeve height across my cube makes me really dislike them. I can also add that the matte front on the Eclipse sleeves cuts down on glare, but also cuts down on how shiny your foils are. I would recommend Eclipse for miscellaneous decks or as draft sleeves that will hold up for a long time, but I don't think they are great for cubes.
Has anyone here tried out the new Ultimate Guard Katana sleeves?
I haven't even been able to get a single pack to sleeve a random deck in order to test them. My LGS can't keep them in stock. I do have a friend who ordered some online. He let me check them out and shuffle them when he got them, so I can vouch for the look and the shuffle feel on a small sample size. Just based on that, assuming you could get them for a decent price and there aren't any quality issues between cases when buying that many, it seems like a good sleeve option.
Yeah, the only sleeves that my LGS has managed to keep in stock are the fully transparent ones, which for various reasons aren't really appropriate sleeves for a cube.
I got an order of 300 Ultimate Guard Katana (in purple) and if anything they're a little too slippery? It's easy to knock a deck over such that it spills everywhere. The shuffling is amazing though.
Also, there are occasional issues with double sleeving with KMC perfect fits - maybe 5% of them slide off the card.
Note: I play primarily EDH and don't play Cube but I figured this information is relatively universal and this thread is more active than other threads I found.
I was able to acquire some Katana Sleeves as well as some of the new Dragon Shield Sealable Perfect Fits. I have 2 decks with Katanas and have been playing with them for about 3 weeks or more. I just got the Perfect Fits today. My thoughts on each:
Katanas
I agree with opterown that they are a little too slippery. The slipperiness tends to wear off a little since the beginning but they are still fairly slippery. More so than my Dragon Shields. It is possible that further games will cause it "wear off" more. It isn't like they are are unusable or anything like that but it is something to watch for, especially when they are first being used.
They are shorter than Dragon Shields and the same height as Ultra Pro. I tend to think Dragon Shield is the outlier in this department (maybe KMC's are taller too?) but I do like the taller Dragon Shields. The height is not a deal breaker either.
They are a little thinner than Dragon Shield which is fairly common. They seem to be about the same thickness as Ultra Pro with maybe being slightly thicker.
The fronts are very clear and glossy and, I think, tend to show off foils much better than any other sleeves I have used. It does kind of create a glare, so it depends on what you prefer.
One noteworthy thing is that each pack is exactly 100 cards. I have become accustomed to Dragon Shields where I usually get 2-3 extra sleeves in the box and that is not the case here. So, if any split you need to purchase a brand new box if you are playing EDH or any other 100 card format/deck.
Overall, the only real complaint I have is that they are somewhat shorter than Dragon Shields but, with the Sealable Perfect Fits, this isn't as much of a concern since I don't have to worry as much about the inner sleeve "riding up" in the Katana so everything is still fully covered. The fact that the fronts show off my foils better and they are slightly thinner are both benefits for me so I will likely use these going forward.
Sealable Perfect Fits
These were something I was interested in since hearing about them a few weeks ago and my order came in today. I was able to sleeve 2 of my decks into these sleeves. One using Katanas and one use Dragon Shield Mattes.
They do (obviously) increase the thickness of each card and, thus, the deck. Overall, I would say my 100 card deck is now about 2-3 mm taller than before. I can get an exact measurement later if anyone wants one.
This is important to note since now my deck no longer fits into one of my boxes. It was already tight due to Dragon Shields being thicker, but now it is too thick.
They didn't seem to trap air like other perfect fits. That is, once I pressed all the air out of them, they seemed to be pretty flat right away. Normally, for me, I have had to press the air out and play the deck a little to get the air fully pressed out. There is still some here, but it didn't seem to trap as much as regular sleeves.
Sleeving did take longer as they have an extra step. I ended up just putting all my cards in half way all at once, and then I doubled back and put the back flap in all of them later. This seemed to go the fastest. It is hard to describe, but there is a noticeable "click" when you get the card and back flap all the way in and I found that the cards did not easily come out once they were sleeved.
I did have one sleeve out of 200 split on me. Luckily, each pack came with 2 extra sleeves so I didn't have to open a brand new pack to finish sleeving my deck.
Putting them into regular sleeves was much nicer as I never had to worry about the inner sleeve coming off so I think I made up some time here since putting them in regular sleeves took less time than normal. It was not enough to make up all the time "lost" from putting them in the inner sleeves, but it was something.
All in all, it took me between 22 and 25 minutes to fully double sleeve each deck. I don't really know what it took me before so it is hard to use this number for an actual comparison but it might still be useful.
The back flap of the sleeve is slightly narrower than the rest of the sleeve which makes sense as it needs to fit in. It does seem that the way the sleeves are constructed that the back flap is tapered just right to still cover the corners of the card while they are sleeved but, if liquid does find its way inside (somehow) I can see where the edges of the card would still be vulnerable. But, this is still better than no additional protection at all.
I do really like these sleeves even with the added bulk and added time to sleeve my deck. I have every card in my collection in perfect fits (which is now around 4000 cards as I tend to get rid of any cards I am not using and don't plan to use) so I will eventually take on the arduous task of re-sleeving my entire collection. For now, I hope to at least just get my decks resleeved.
I use black Dragon Shield Mattes with KMC perfect fit top loading inners.
My cube is 600 cards and fits into 2 cardboard 660 longboxes. These boxes get slid into a green plastic K'Nex hard shell case I found at a garage sale for $4. I can also fit 2 deckboxes containing tokens, the full set of conspiracies, and dice inside of the box.
Since adding Archenemy to my cube, I had to add a third 660. This doesn't fit in the K'Nex case but nothing fits sleeved Wumbo archenemy cards. It also contains by commander deck (Commander is an awful format but if people want to get games in may as well have it on me) and extra sleeves.
This all gets slid into a back pack with a tube containing my playmat.
Either Dragon Shield or Katana are probably the best on the market right now. Katana sleeves have proved to be somewhat hard to get, especially in bulk rates to sleeve 500 or more cards at once.
I use UltraPro Eclipse sleeves for my powered cube. They are also great as far as shuffle feel and durability. Cons for me are the 'frosted' style fronts which can often just hide the fact that you're playing with foils. It also seems they can vary in length between cases/packs. I bought a case plus several packs in order to have enough for my entire cube and I have the unfortunate problem now of about a third of the cube being in sleeves that are just a bit taller than the rest. I will add that I have Eclipse sleeves on a few pauper decks and I haven't seen the miscut problem there. So, I guess YMMV.
Either Dragon Shield or Katana are probably the best on the market right now. Katana sleeves have proved to be somewhat hard to get, especially in bulk rates to sleeve 500 or more cards at once.
I use UltraPro Eclipse sleeves for my powered cube. They are also great as far as shuffle feel and durability. Cons for me are the 'frosted' style fronts which can often just hide the fact that you're playing with foils. It also seems they can vary in length between cases/packs. I bought a case plus several packs in order to have enough for my entire cube and I have the unfortunate problem now of about a third of the cube being in sleeves that are just a bit taller than the rest. I will add that I have Eclipse sleeves on a few pauper decks and I haven't seen the miscut problem there. So, I guess YMMV.
I genuinely thought that Ultra Pro took greater care with their tolerances for their more expensive sleeves. I found that even the cheaper BCW sleeves have far tighter tolerances across their entire product line compared to Ultra Pro.
I guess being so ubiquitous amongst card shops, they probably feel they don't have much competition at their product price points and volume. It is most certainly the reason I continue to buy UP when better sleeves are out of stock and I need new sleeves five minutes ago.
I saw a box at a LGS so display Basic Lands for Limited events. Has anyone knowledge of a box that is portable and displays basic lands in a nice way?
How do you guys handle your token cards? With all those different tokens that appear in every new set (Angle Warrior?) I find it hard to find the right ones fast. Do you sleeve them in colored sleeves? Or just sort them?
I store my basics in the same carrying case as my cube, which is a repurposed toolbox that I bought on Etsy a while back. I haven't had issues with this, although it doesn't display them in any particularly nice way.
My tokens used to also go in this box, but after expanding the size of my cube, they don't fit any more. I currently store them in one of the Conspiracy deck boxes from Ultra Pro, because I had it lying around, although I'm not attached to it (this one here). I sleeve them using matching old sleeves from a previous iteration of my cube. I like the polished look of them, and that sleeving them hides the ads on the back, but don't really care about sleeve wear in the same way since I'm not shuffling my tokens.
I carry my cube(s) around in a Pirate Lab HQ backpack. The cubes themselves are stored in plain white BCW boxes. I store tokens and lands in two Planar Chaos fat pack boxes. Tokens are sleeved by appropriate color. It's not pretty or fancy, but it certainly gets the job done.
I also find that with so many tokens, I need to do a token audit a few times a year and just remove anything that I don't need anymore which helps to free up space in the box.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
I double sleeve, and I agree with wtwlf, I wouldn't go any farther than perfect hards. As much as I love cube, if someone asked me to play and then opened their cube box and everything was in toploaders, I'd probably suggest playing a different game instead. It just sounds onerous.
I'm actually currently working on another cube that is built to be so budget that sleeves don't make sense. I just bought 120 cards for it last night and it was $10 shipped.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/63569
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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What do you mean by, "two different heights"? Is the difference with a single sleeved card between batches that dramatic in height? That's nuts.
Here's the cube with the cards standing up right. You can visibly see the obvious difference in height between the batches.
Under normal circumstances without the height issue, I love Eclipse sleeves. The quality is great. The shuffle feel is great. With this height issue, though, I really dislike them. They feel terrible to shuffle. I've since picked up a few packs here and there that have matched the taller sleeves to try to off set it some, but I sleeved the basics first, so they are all in the shorter sleeves. I've thought about just picking up another case to try to match one or the other, but I really don't need that many extra sleeves.
I posted this pic to the UltraPro Facebook hoping they'd recognize the issue, but I got no responses.
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For those complaining about the quality of KMC, there was a response posted earlier in the thread. KMC claims this was the results of knock-offs being sold as authentic KMCs on Amazon by 3rd party sellers. I have no idea whether this is true or not. I purchased my KMC sleeves around the time that complaints began popping up and mine have been great so far. (My cube is still in the original sleeves after several years and we've only lost a few to splitting, but my group doesn't get together as often as some do.)
The best sleeves we've ever had on the cube are KMC Mattes. We replaced those after about three years of use with KMC Hypers about the time that the bad batches were popping up. The Hypers were arguably the worst sleeves I've ever used in terms of quality. We split multiple sleeves every cube night and they were really bad about busting across the bottom. I had good experience with the Eclipse sleeves and using them on various decks, so that's why I went with them for the cube. Obviously that was a mistake, though. If I could just always get those same original KMC Mattes, I'd use those forever.
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Then I decided to finally include double-faced cards and read about the quality decline.
I was confused and waited some months and at that point I read about a new line of KMC Hyper Mattes (black) that were like the old ones before the temporary quality decline.
Look out for this package style, don't buy other package styles because it could be from the bad quality batches. I would advice not to buy them on Amazon but instead in your local MTG store
I am using these new Hyper Mattes for around 4 months now and they are satisfying. There was not a single split sleeve and they did not wear off too much. I have a sideboard with cards that are not drafted each time and if I compare them with the cards that are frequently played, then I can not really tell the difference on first sight, which is enough for me. It's not like I must play the cards on a tournament
EDIT: This also assumes that I can find them at anywhere near list price. Looks like they’re out of stock or marked up to double MARP right now depending on where you look, since they’ve just been released. The Professor’s review of them compares them to golden-age KMC Hypers, though, so that’s encouraging!
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Oh..... I see.
Yeah, my experience has been spotty with Ultra-Pro and their tolerances. I can see having a 3+/-mm or so tolerance on their penny sleeves. But it gets pretty damn ridiculus when the 1 or 2 mm tolerance on their pro-fits and a similar tolerances on their deck sleeves mean double sleeved cards can stick out of the top.
Even the cheaper BCW sleeves have much tighter tolerances.
Really the only reason I have to buy Ultra-Pro is their ubiquitousness with the market. Stores that offer Dragon or KMC are typically sold out whenever I really need to buy them and have a ton on hand when I don't need to buy any.
I haven't even been able to get a single pack to sleeve a random deck in order to test them. My LGS can't keep them in stock. I do have a friend who ordered some online. He let me check them out and shuffle them when he got them, so I can vouch for the look and the shuffle feel on a small sample size. Just based on that, assuming you could get them for a decent price and there aren't any quality issues between cases when buying that many, it seems like a good sleeve option.
This reply was six months in the making. lol
I would offer an update on the Eclipse sleeves, but there's not much to offer. The unfortunate discrepancy in sleeve height across my cube makes me really dislike them. I can also add that the matte front on the Eclipse sleeves cuts down on glare, but also cuts down on how shiny your foils are. I would recommend Eclipse for miscellaneous decks or as draft sleeves that will hold up for a long time, but I don't think they are great for cubes.
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Also, there are occasional issues with double sleeving with KMC perfect fits - maybe 5% of them slide off the card.
I was able to acquire some Katana Sleeves as well as some of the new Dragon Shield Sealable Perfect Fits. I have 2 decks with Katanas and have been playing with them for about 3 weeks or more. I just got the Perfect Fits today. My thoughts on each:
Katanas
Sealable Perfect Fits
My cube is 600 cards and fits into 2 cardboard 660 longboxes. These boxes get slid into a green plastic K'Nex hard shell case I found at a garage sale for $4. I can also fit 2 deckboxes containing tokens, the full set of conspiracies, and dice inside of the box.
Since adding Archenemy to my cube, I had to add a third 660. This doesn't fit in the K'Nex case but nothing fits sleeved Wumbo archenemy cards. It also contains by commander deck (Commander is an awful format but if people want to get games in may as well have it on me) and extra sleeves.
This all gets slid into a back pack with a tube containing my playmat.
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I use UltraPro Eclipse sleeves for my powered cube. They are also great as far as shuffle feel and durability. Cons for me are the 'frosted' style fronts which can often just hide the fact that you're playing with foils. It also seems they can vary in length between cases/packs. I bought a case plus several packs in order to have enough for my entire cube and I have the unfortunate problem now of about a third of the cube being in sleeves that are just a bit taller than the rest. I will add that I have Eclipse sleeves on a few pauper decks and I haven't seen the miscut problem there. So, I guess YMMV.
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I genuinely thought that Ultra Pro took greater care with their tolerances for their more expensive sleeves. I found that even the cheaper BCW sleeves have far tighter tolerances across their entire product line compared to Ultra Pro.
I guess being so ubiquitous amongst card shops, they probably feel they don't have much competition at their product price points and volume. It is most certainly the reason I continue to buy UP when better sleeves are out of stock and I need new sleeves five minutes ago.
How do you guys handle your token cards? With all those different tokens that appear in every new set (Angle Warrior?) I find it hard to find the right ones fast. Do you sleeve them in colored sleeves? Or just sort them?
My tokens used to also go in this box, but after expanding the size of my cube, they don't fit any more. I currently store them in one of the Conspiracy deck boxes from Ultra Pro, because I had it lying around, although I'm not attached to it (this one here). I sleeve them using matching old sleeves from a previous iteration of my cube. I like the polished look of them, and that sleeving them hides the ads on the back, but don't really care about sleeve wear in the same way since I'm not shuffling my tokens.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
I also find that with so many tokens, I need to do a token audit a few times a year and just remove anything that I don't need anymore which helps to free up space in the box.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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