you're being ridiculous. you can't assume "vote without being informed" is automatically inserted into his post because he didn't state the opposite. you didn't specify that people should vote with clothes on, so should we assume you're advocating voting in the nude? i have to point out that it's illegal and likely to result in the loss of your vote.
Alright, let me explain why it's a logical assumption to make, and why your comparison isn't very reasonable. If a person at this time and stage doesn't intend to vote already, they probably haven't given it much consideration or care. Thus the target audience that you're trying to convince to vote at this point, is an audience that hadn't previously cared to vote prior to now, so based on that audience it is fair to assume that they are potentially uninformed or indifferent. Just as one would assume people would show up wearing clothing when voting, seeing as the standard norm is to wear clothing in public for legal reasons if nothing else.
Let's put it this way, I'm seeing more and more posts around the internet that go something like this and this is a direct copy paste of something a person posted:
"well now i guess i should go and vote. since i hate both the guys in office and well everyone says vote here and vote there i am gonna make my own box and vote for VINCE MCMAHON."
I've seen countless people with pictures of their ballots for Satan, Megatron, and Hitler... Clearly this whole "go vote" thing is working.
On a lighter note, where I'm from sometimes 140% of a regions population votes for some person, now that's voter turn out!
Ah, voter fraud. Can't beat it. That is impressive turnout.
Also, to the more serious part of our conversation, and to put it to bed, most of the reason I mentioned that "it's all about turnout" was because in most places in America, the vote is decided long before the election ever takes place because the same people come out time and again. Turnout brings about change simply by increasing the size of the voter pool. I don't ever ask people to vote for a specific candidate, I just ask them to vote. I also don't care who they vote for, so long as they make a choice. Participate in the process.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Ah, voter fraud. Can't beat it. That is impressive turnout.
Also, to the more serious part of our conversation, and to put it to bed, most of the reason I mentioned that "it's all about turnout" was because in most places in America, the vote is decided long before the election ever takes place because the same people come out time and again. Turnout brings about change simply by increasing the size of the voter pool. I don't ever ask people to vote for a specific candidate, I just ask them to vote. I also don't care who they vote for, so long as they make a choice. Participate in the process.
I don't accuse you of wanting to convince people to vote one way or another. I do however highly disagree that simply turning out to vote is important. As I've said, people voting for fictional characters isn't beneficial to anyone and if anything makes your demographic look worse in the end result.
Making a choice is meaningless if it's not an informed choice, less we flip a coin a given amount of times and decide a winner based on that. The only difference being that one method has a lot of symbolic pageantry behind it and the other doesn't.
How about if all votes not cast were assumed to be a vote for rescinding the Declaration of Independence and a return to British rule?
What would that do for voter turnout?
Create the very system I want to avoid, where we don't have the right to abstain from voting? Thus bringing us closer to the satirical notion of "Vote or Die"?
Then again I'm quite the anglophile and wouldn't mind returning to the rule of jolly old England.
=============================
On another note, for those who consider it a forfeit of the right to complain if one abstains from voting, what if there wasn't an option for what you wanted on the ballot? In other words, what if the choices were between Civil Union or Nothing for gay couples and you only believed in equal full Marriage? Would you still be barred from complaining if you didn't want to support choice you believed was unjust?
More so, what about the people that do vote? If you picked a candidate or voted for something that turned out to be negative should you be blamed personally if I am to be considered lazy and as having no say in the matter for abstaining from voting? After all you made the choice, it's your fault by the same token of logic, whereas I simply didn't have a chosen direction and as such decided to not give my input where it wasn't useful or beneficial.
Pretend we're all in a bus driving somewhere, we come to a fork in the road and one group of people says to go right and the other to go left, both believe their choice is the right one to get to our destination. No matter how much I consider both options I can not make a clear choice for which is right, and rather than provide incorrect input I choose to state that I do not have an opinion on which direction is correct, I however still have the opinion that I desire to be taken to the right place but being incapable of knowing which way will lead us there, I decide to allow those who I believe to be more knowledgeable to make the decision. Should I not be upset later on when the more zealous group is proven to be wrong in their choice of direction, or should I have cast my input blindly, potentially vouched for the wrong direction, just so I could later complain about the problems that arouse from what may have been my decision?
I do find it interesting that a survey of foreign countries preferred Obama over Romney for the US presidency.
I'm happy with the election results generally, but that said, I do hope that consensus can be made and things start happening because the lack of action will result in big problems for everyone's future.
Went to the Question 6 (gay marriage) results party last night in Baltimore. When they announced Warren, the place went crazy. When they announced Obama, the place was completely deafening. When they announced Q6 passes, I thought the roof was going to fall off. Hell, the governor started crying onstage. It was one of the best nights of my life, and totally worth the hangover I have, and the glitter that is still in my hair (even post shower). Proud of my state and my country today.
Went to the Question 6 (gay marriage) results party last night in Baltimore. When they announced Warren, the place went crazy. When they announced Obama, the place was completely deafening. When they announced Q6 passes, I thought the roof was going to fall off. Hell, the governor started crying onstage. It was one of the best nights of my life, and totally worth the hangover I have, and the glitter that is still in my hair (even post shower). Proud of my state and my country today.
Amen brother. One day, all citizens will be considered equals. One day.
Went to the Question 6 (gay marriage) results party last night in Baltimore. When they announced Warren, the place went crazy. When they announced Obama, the place was completely deafening. When they announced Q6 passes, I thought the roof was going to fall off. Hell, the governor started crying onstage. It was one of the best nights of my life, and totally worth the hangover I have, and the glitter that is still in my hair (even post shower). Proud of my state and my country today.
The success of marriage equality this election is really moving for me. I remember in 2004 how dejected I was. It wasn't just that Bush won. It was that the populations of many states specifically told me that I wasn't equal. That I was lesser. And, more than that, that political strategists put marriage equality on the ballot to specifically drive up turnout for their side--they used fear and bigotry to win. Do I feel vindicated today? Damn skippy!
It disgusts me that someone would look down on you because of your sexual orientation, rant. It really does. I hope for a day where that bigotry is a thing of the past. Not in our lifetime, but perhaps for my children's grandchildren. Hopefully by then we can breed out the ignorance.
I hate the fact that gay marriage is even an issue. Glad to see it's moving in the right direction. People walking around with anti gay signs in protest are going to be looked at like the civil rights protestors in the 60's.
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It disgusts me that someone would look down on you because of your sexual orientation, rant. It really does. I hope for a day where that bigotry is a thing of the past. Not in our lifetime, but perhaps for my children's grandchildren. Hopefully by then we can breed out the ignorance.
Thank you. That's very nice of you to say. Despite the bigotry, I'm really awed by the amount of progress we've made on this issue in such a short time. Only eight years, marriage equality brought out the bigots and was resoundly defeated. Now, it brings out the supporters and wins the day. It's inspiring.
And, Mr. Dumpkins, I totally agree with you.. Why is this even an issue? Who does it hurt if me and my partner get hitched?
I do have a question for you non-English as a primary language board members, do you fill out your cube with english cards or other languages? only english when necessary? pimp other languages?
Ausschliessi, pm me your list, maybe I have extras of what you need.
On another note, for those who consider it a forfeit of the right to complain if one abstains from voting, what if there wasn't an option for what you wanted on the ballot? In other words, what if the choices were between Civil Union or Nothing for gay couples and you only believed in equal full Marriage? Would you still be barred from complaining if you didn't want to support choice you believed was unjust?
If you don't have a third alternative, such as a write-in vote, then yes, I think you have an obligation to vote for the choice which you think is most palatable AND (OR) take some concrete action or generate discourse as to why you do not believe that either of the two choices are the correct choices. I think that there's a false belief that silence indicates dissension, which is patently incorrect at least in this country (and probably in most). Virtually nobody will notice an abstention unless there is a big show about it, that's the plain truth. If Obama himself decided to abstain from the vote, I wouldn't notice unless there was a media story.
To the extent that the "right to complain" is tied in to the personal effort contributed towards rectifying that chance, I think that both deciding not to vote and abstaining from other participation does indeed limit your "right to complain." If only for the fact that we perpetuate a cultural norm which cherishes the ideal of individual action, and has disdain for the armchair bellyacher.
Last year I ran a Cube forum gift exchange for Christmas and it ended up going really well.
Would anyone here be interested in participating if I managed the event a second time? If there's interest I'll PM a mod to make sure everything's cool and then hopefully get things going again.
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Last year I ran a Cube forum gift exchange for Christmas and it ended up going really well.
Would anyone here be interested in participating if I managed the event a second time? If there's interest I'll PM a mod to make sure everything's cool and then hopefully get things going again.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Hell yeah man. I'm loving the the cards you sent me. The Venser alter is still the highlight of my entire cube. Thanks again
If we do a Secret Santa for Christmas this year, then we should get going on it over this next month or so.
Yeah, I'd like to get together a list of everyone participating and then hand out names a bit after Thanksgiving. That should give everyone a month before Christmas to find and send out their gift.
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Could you be more specific about the details on this apart from 'Send another board member cards'? If there is stuff like an altered Venser going around I wouldn't be able to compete ^^
That's the beauty of it, you don't have to compete. Just give out mediocre cards and get back foil altered signed misprinted betas.
Who would be so mad to send around foil betas, those must be worth 5 grand ; )
well if it's like this I'd certainly be interested.
For the last secret santa, Magnetman sent each participant the name/address for their recipient, as well as a wants list from that person. This meant the giver had an idea of what to send out.
Alright, let me explain why it's a logical assumption to make, and why your comparison isn't very reasonable. If a person at this time and stage doesn't intend to vote already, they probably haven't given it much consideration or care. Thus the target audience that you're trying to convince to vote at this point, is an audience that hadn't previously cared to vote prior to now, so based on that audience it is fair to assume that they are potentially uninformed or indifferent. Just as one would assume people would show up wearing clothing when voting, seeing as the standard norm is to wear clothing in public for legal reasons if nothing else.
Let's put it this way, I'm seeing more and more posts around the internet that go something like this and this is a direct copy paste of something a person posted:
"well now i guess i should go and vote. since i hate both the guys in office and well everyone says vote here and vote there i am gonna make my own box and vote for VINCE MCMAHON."
I've seen countless people with pictures of their ballots for Satan, Megatron, and Hitler... Clearly this whole "go vote" thing is working.
Ah, voter fraud. Can't beat it. That is impressive turnout.
Also, to the more serious part of our conversation, and to put it to bed, most of the reason I mentioned that "it's all about turnout" was because in most places in America, the vote is decided long before the election ever takes place because the same people come out time and again. Turnout brings about change simply by increasing the size of the voter pool. I don't ever ask people to vote for a specific candidate, I just ask them to vote. I also don't care who they vote for, so long as they make a choice. Participate in the process.
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What would that do for voter turnout?
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I don't accuse you of wanting to convince people to vote one way or another. I do however highly disagree that simply turning out to vote is important. As I've said, people voting for fictional characters isn't beneficial to anyone and if anything makes your demographic look worse in the end result.
Making a choice is meaningless if it's not an informed choice, less we flip a coin a given amount of times and decide a winner based on that. The only difference being that one method has a lot of symbolic pageantry behind it and the other doesn't.
Create the very system I want to avoid, where we don't have the right to abstain from voting? Thus bringing us closer to the satirical notion of "Vote or Die"?
Then again I'm quite the anglophile and wouldn't mind returning to the rule of jolly old England.
=============================
On another note, for those who consider it a forfeit of the right to complain if one abstains from voting, what if there wasn't an option for what you wanted on the ballot? In other words, what if the choices were between Civil Union or Nothing for gay couples and you only believed in equal full Marriage? Would you still be barred from complaining if you didn't want to support choice you believed was unjust?
More so, what about the people that do vote? If you picked a candidate or voted for something that turned out to be negative should you be blamed personally if I am to be considered lazy and as having no say in the matter for abstaining from voting? After all you made the choice, it's your fault by the same token of logic, whereas I simply didn't have a chosen direction and as such decided to not give my input where it wasn't useful or beneficial.
Pretend we're all in a bus driving somewhere, we come to a fork in the road and one group of people says to go right and the other to go left, both believe their choice is the right one to get to our destination. No matter how much I consider both options I can not make a clear choice for which is right, and rather than provide incorrect input I choose to state that I do not have an opinion on which direction is correct, I however still have the opinion that I desire to be taken to the right place but being incapable of knowing which way will lead us there, I decide to allow those who I believe to be more knowledgeable to make the decision. Should I not be upset later on when the more zealous group is proven to be wrong in their choice of direction, or should I have cast my input blindly, potentially vouched for the wrong direction, just so I could later complain about the problems that arouse from what may have been my decision?
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I'm happy with the election results generally, but that said, I do hope that consensus can be made and things start happening because the lack of action will result in big problems for everyone's future.
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Those shoppers sure do love their Obama.
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Amen brother. One day, all citizens will be considered equals. One day.
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The success of marriage equality this election is really moving for me. I remember in 2004 how dejected I was. It wasn't just that Bush won. It was that the populations of many states specifically told me that I wasn't equal. That I was lesser. And, more than that, that political strategists put marriage equality on the ballot to specifically drive up turnout for their side--they used fear and bigotry to win. Do I feel vindicated today? Damn skippy!
Cheers,
rant
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Thank you. That's very nice of you to say. Despite the bigotry, I'm really awed by the amount of progress we've made on this issue in such a short time. Only eight years, marriage equality brought out the bigots and was resoundly defeated. Now, it brings out the supporters and wins the day. It's inspiring.
And, Mr. Dumpkins, I totally agree with you.. Why is this even an issue? Who does it hurt if me and my partner get hitched?
Cheers,
rant
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Ausschliessi, pm me your list, maybe I have extras of what you need.
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If you don't have a third alternative, such as a write-in vote, then yes, I think you have an obligation to vote for the choice which you think is most palatable AND (OR) take some concrete action or generate discourse as to why you do not believe that either of the two choices are the correct choices. I think that there's a false belief that silence indicates dissension, which is patently incorrect at least in this country (and probably in most). Virtually nobody will notice an abstention unless there is a big show about it, that's the plain truth. If Obama himself decided to abstain from the vote, I wouldn't notice unless there was a media story.
To the extent that the "right to complain" is tied in to the personal effort contributed towards rectifying that chance, I think that both deciding not to vote and abstaining from other participation does indeed limit your "right to complain." If only for the fact that we perpetuate a cultural norm which cherishes the ideal of individual action, and has disdain for the armchair bellyacher.
Would anyone here be interested in participating if I managed the event a second time? If there's interest I'll PM a mod to make sure everything's cool and then hopefully get things going again.
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Clan RepresentativeBasically like the ones Lesurgo ran?
If so, I'd be a fan.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Hell yeah man. I'm loving the the cards you sent me. The Venser alter is still the highlight of my entire cube. Thanks again
If we do a Secret Santa for Christmas this year, then we should get going on it over this next month or so.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
Yeah, I'd like to get together a list of everyone participating and then hand out names a bit after Thanksgiving. That should give everyone a month before Christmas to find and send out their gift.
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That's the beauty of it, you don't have to compete. Just give out mediocre cards and get back foil altered signed misprinted betas.
For the last secret santa, Magnetman sent each participant the name/address for their recipient, as well as a wants list from that person. This meant the giver had an idea of what to send out.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards