Also, cards that Exile permanents rather than destroy them are a way to get the edge on graveyardannigans. Consider running things like Revoke Existence over Seal of Cleansing or Hallowed Burial over Rout to make sure things like Wurmcoil Engine or Kokusho go away and don't come back so easily
Great suggestion! While the reshuffle effect is the reason I play Red Sun's Zenith, the ability to exile all the nasty cards that do stuff when they go to the graveyard or get reanimated goes away when you burn them with the Red Sun.
Now that I think about it, I am going to get it altered with some Red Son art.
I wanted to ask everyone about dual lands in cube. Right now at 450 I'm running all 10 fetches, the shocklands, the dual-color manlands, and the 5 shard lands. I feel like other cubes run more duals than I do. The Shards lands feel under-utilized. Three color decks aren't rare, but they aren't so common that the lands often find a perfect-fit home. Instead they usually act like duals that come into play tapped. I'm thinking I'll add enemy-colored duals of some sort to balance out the man-land ally color duals, and drop the Shards lands.
I'm also debating adding another cycle of ten dual lands. I'd love some advice on what would work best. Original duals seem to make multi-color too easy, but maybe it's time I reviewed my thought process on that. I've seen others use a mix of bounce lands, filter lands, etc. What do you guys think?
At 450 we are running four types of lands including Fetchlands, Shock lands and ABU lands. We also are running a fourth set of lands consisting of 4 worldwake manlands (playing Horizon Canopy instead of Stirring Wildwood). We are running mixture of enemy lands to finish that group of ten off.
Edit: We are currently playing 55 non-basics in our cube, though the list on here isn't totally updated it is on tappedout.
I wanted to ask everyone about dual lands in cube. Right now at 450 I'm running all 10 fetches, the shocklands, the dual-color manlands, and the 5 shard lands. I feel like other cubes run more duals than I do. The Shards lands feel under-utilized. Three color decks aren't rare, but they aren't so common that the lands often find a perfect-fit home. Instead they usually act like duals that come into play tapped. I'm thinking I'll add enemy-colored duals of some sort to balance out the man-land ally color duals, and drop the Shards lands.
I'm also debating adding another cycle of ten dual lands. I'd love some advice on what would work best. Original duals seem to make multi-color too easy, but maybe it's time I reviewed my thought process on that. I've seen others use a mix of bounce lands, filter lands, etc. What do you guys think?
The dual lands don't necessarily make multi-color too easy. I think Fetches, ABU duals and Shocklands are the most important, because they're good in aggro. So if you can add those, I'd add those.
As for the Shard lands, they do often play as dual lands that come into play tapped, but they do that for so many different decks. They're not necessary, but they're fine too. I'd run them over most other dual sets.
Thanks for all the info guys, I'm upping my dual count! Right now I'm dropping two cards per color, and adding in the ABU duals. I'm also dropping the 5 shard lands, and adding in the DKA enemy duals. That's kind of a place-saver though, since I could be asymmetrical. What do you guys think about the best choices are for the 5 enemy dual lands? It feels like UR and UG might want bounce lands, and RB and RW might want pain lands. Not sure on BG.
Thanks for all the info guys, I'm upping my dual count! Right now I'm dropping two cards per color, and adding in the ABU duals. I'm also dropping the 5 shard lands, and adding in the DKA enemy duals. That's kind of a place-saver though, since I could be asymmetrical. What do you guys think about the best choices are for the 5 enemy dual lands? It feels like UR and UG might want bounce lands, and RB and RW might want pain lands. Not sure on BG.
I have it set up like this because colour combination more likely to be aggro (WBRG) want to hit their early drops ASAP. If paired with blue, these colours can often afford to miss (as in the case with the DKA enemy duals). So I would be running a card like Battlefield Forge over Clifftop Retreat but both are better than a Boros Garrison
I'm cutting my Moxen, Sol Ring, and some other colorless cards (not entirely sure yet which are the rest) to add one dual land per color. Below is my total dual land count. Bolded are the new inclusions.
I would think about adding Blackcleave Cliffs imstead of Sulfurous Springs as BR aggro decks already have a ton of self damaging cards usually and don't really care about the Scars land's drawback. The rest of the adds seem pretty much perfect.
To be honest I actually hate filter lands and knew there were better options. These are the better options, thanks. Also I'm already running Cave of Koilos and Battlefield Forge, wish the enemy colors would get better lands already.
Wow, that comment hit too close to home. My friends and I had a long discussion on this last night. Since I'm allergic to some nuts I just stay the hell away.
Dude . . . I love walnuts in brownies. I'll still get down on some walnutless brownies, but I won't enjoy it.
EDIT: Just to keep this relevant. I support the anti-filter commentators. I used them for a while and they were okay, but there are better option now with the INN lands.
Filters have been a huge help in pushing heavy black. I currently run just the G/B, W/B, R/B, and R/W filters. I don't like them as as full cycle, but they've been great in helping us with more difficult color requirements as the cube has changed over the years.
Great suggestion! While the reshuffle effect is the reason I play Red Sun's Zenith, the ability to exile all the nasty cards that do stuff when they go to the graveyard or get reanimated goes away when you burn them with the Red Sun.
Now that I think about it, I am going to get it altered with some Red Son art.
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I'm also debating adding another cycle of ten dual lands. I'd love some advice on what would work best. Original duals seem to make multi-color too easy, but maybe it's time I reviewed my thought process on that. I've seen others use a mix of bounce lands, filter lands, etc. What do you guys think?
I run 3 full cycles plus the manlands I want at 360. I'd run at least 4 cycles at 450.
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Edit: We are currently playing 55 non-basics in our cube, though the list on here isn't totally updated it is on tappedout.
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The dual lands don't necessarily make multi-color too easy. I think Fetches, ABU duals and Shocklands are the most important, because they're good in aggro. So if you can add those, I'd add those.
As for the Shard lands, they do often play as dual lands that come into play tapped, but they do that for so many different decks. They're not necessary, but they're fine too. I'd run them over most other dual sets.
Currently my enemy aligned lands are: ABU duals, Ravnica duals, Fetch lands, Filter lands and Caves of Koilos, Battlefield Forge, Sulfur Falls, Hinterland Harbour, and Llanowar Wastes.
I have it set up like this because colour combination more likely to be aggro (WBRG) want to hit their early drops ASAP. If paired with blue, these colours can often afford to miss (as in the case with the DKA enemy duals). So I would be running a card like Battlefield Forge over Clifftop Retreat but both are better than a Boros Garrison
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That's what I'd do. For BG, I'd go with a pain land if you play aggro in that combination, or the INN land if it sees more mid-range play.
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To be honest I actually hate filter lands and knew there were better options. These are the better options, thanks. Also I'm already running Cave of Koilos and Battlefield Forge, wish the enemy colors would get better lands already.
Me too. Like nuts in brownies, man.
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Wow, that comment hit too close to home. My friends and I had a long discussion on this last night. Since I'm allergic to some nuts I just stay the hell away.
EDIT: Just to keep this relevant. I support the anti-filter commentators. I used them for a while and they were okay, but there are better option now with the INN lands.
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