I was sure that they would use the new picture if this card was in the set and the polar bear picture does look old, but it was a pretty iconic piece and I will miss it. Still, removing the last white bordered non-dual card from my cube beats keeping the iconic picture. And the new one isn't exactly bad either.
Edit: Woah, woah, woah, they returned to the old oracle wording! Winter Orb only works while untapped again. Icy shenanigans!
As someone who likes to keep his cards Oracle-Text-Current for obscure corner cases (I'm looking at you Sundering Titan + Blade Splicer) and to help new players not have to ask questions about obscure wording (Alpha Disenchant "Discard", Alpha Control Magic's "Wall of Text", Mirage Mystical Tutor getting a "Mana source" etc.) I'm wondering if there is going to come a time where I need to start replacing colorless generating cards with their newer diamond generating equivalents. This hasn't been a real choice yet, but with the new Mana Crypt, Wasteland, and Mishra's Factory this is now an option. I think I'm going to stick with the old style cards for nostalgia purposes, but I'm curious what everyone would do if all of the colorless producers had appropriate diamond alternatives.
Colorless isn't really supported yet besides TKS, Smasher, Kozilek, and maybe Matter Reshaper, but with as big of a change as it was I'd be willing to bet that they offer more support for it going forward.
I'm wondering if there is going to come a time where I need to start replacing colorless generating cards with their newer diamond generating equivalents. This hasn't been a real choice yet, but with the new Mana Crypt, Wasteland, and Mishra's Factory this is now an option. I think I'm going to stick with the old style cards for nostalgia purposes, but I'm curious what everyone would do if all of the colorless producers had appropriate diamond alternatives.
Colorless isn't really supported yet besides TKS, Smasher, Kozilek, and maybe Matter Reshaper, but with as big of a change as it was I'd be willing to bet that they offer more support for it going forward.
I was skeptical about that mechanic being supportable in cube from the get-go, I never thought it was worth warping the mana base of a cube or even most cube decks to pay C costs. It might be OK if your cube is big enough that pain lands and filter lands already fit naturally as your 5th and 6th dual cycles (or you just don't run original duals and fetches), but not for cubes below 540. The thought of changing classic colorless lands and mana rocks to modern frame versions to accommodate C costs borders on offensive to me. You'll have to pry my black bordered Mishra's Factory, Strip Mine, and Worn Powerstone from my cold dead hands before I include versions of them that have C.
Maybe the payoff will be there in future sets, but I won't be in a rush to support C costs.
As someone who likes to keep his cards Oracle-Text-Current for obscure corner cases (I'm looking at you Sundering Titan + Blade Splicer) and to help new players not have to ask questions about obscure wording
This is really important to me, too. I hadn't noticed this before, I'm glad I'm running the FTV Sundering Titan with the current type line.
Woah, woah, woah, they returned to the old oracle wording! Winter Orb only works while untapped again. Icy shenanigans!
Good lord, why did they decide to do this? Looks like I'll need to get the new version to keep it current, and Winter Orb won't just be an aggro card anymore.
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Just a heads up, the other one that used to regularly come up were Stromkirk Noble + Grim Lavamancer/Yavimaya Elder/Mother of Runes/Braids, Cabal Minion. The first 3 have newer printings that match their human oracle text while Braids is a secret human as she has not been printed with her oracle text yet (please EMA!).
I'll probably try to get a foil of the new Mom, because I hate having the new frame version with the old art just for the correct type line. This issue has come up a few times in several different places, but I don't think it's ever been addressed in its own thread, so I'm going to make one in Card and Archetype Discussion. Stay tuned.
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
As someone who likes to keep his cards Oracle-Text-Current for obscure corner cases (I'm looking at you Sundering Titan + Blade Splicer) and to help new players not have to ask questions about obscure wording (Alpha Disenchant "Discard", Alpha Control Magic's "Wall of Text", Mirage Mystical Tutor getting a "Mana source" etc.) I'm wondering if there is going to come a time where I need to start replacing colorless generating cards with their newer diamond generating equivalents. This hasn't been a real choice yet, but with the new Mana Crypt, Wasteland, and Mishra's Factory this is now an option. I think I'm going to stick with the old style cards for nostalgia purposes, but I'm curious what everyone would do if all of the colorless producers had appropriate diamond alternatives.
I generally do the same thing in my Cube. I wound up replacing an FNM Mom (-> DD version) and a Judge Promo Grim Lavamancer (-> M2012 version) just for the correct creature types. It's also why I'm running unpimped versions of Krosan Tusker (none of the foils have the proper Beast in the type), Yavimaya Elder, and Sundering Titan, much like yourself.
I apply these rules pretty haphazardly though, like I think Beta Control Magic is ok because it doesn't really change how the card works even if the use of discard is a bit confusing, and actually the reminder that the creature remains tapped can be handy. However, I'd probably use the Time Spiral foil of Disenchant over the Beta version though because the use of discard there implies something different.
I've thought about the C question too, and I was briefly considering getting the Expedition versions just to make the whole Cube compatible with C if I ever decide to support it. I haven't pulled the trigger on this yet, but it's still an open question.
The thought of changing classic colorless lands and mana rocks to modern frame versions to accommodate C costs borders on offensive to me. You'll have to pry my black bordered Mishra's Factory, Strip Mine, and Worn Powerstone from my cold dead hands before I include versions of them that have C.
Maybe the payoff will be there in future sets, but I won't be in a rush to support C costs.
You and Ftz both touch on this, but IMO trying to make C consistent doesn't disqualify the really old cards that say "colorless mana" instead of 1. It's only the difference between 1 and C that's confusing since they actually mean different things. Given that C literally means colorless mana, having it spelled out vs having the symbol isn't that big of a deal (similar to running versions of cards that had vigilance and haste written out instead of having the keywords).
After thinking about it some more and realizing that Library of Alexandria and Volrath's Stronghold are on the reserved list and are both likely NEVER leaving the cube, I think it's unavoidable to have to explain to new players the diamond interaction. You will NEVER be able to complete a full swap so valueing consistency seems silly.
You and Ftz both touch on this, but IMO trying to make C consistent doesn't disqualify the really old cards that say "colorless mana" instead of 1. It's only the difference between 1 and C that's confusing since they actually mean different things. Given that C literally means colorless mana, having it spelled out vs having the symbol isn't that big of a deal (similar to running versions of cards that had vigilance and haste written out instead of having the keywords).
You're right. C doesn't exactly mean the same thing as 1, since the former is Obligate colorless mana, and the second is Generic OR colorless mana depending on context. This is why cards like Warping Wail and Spatial Contortion are printed the way they are... and why I dislike the oracle changes to older colorless lands.
I don't think so. We're building eternal formats in a game with more than 20 years of history, and complexity creep is a real issue in plenty of playgroups. It certainly is in mine. So far, though, the C cost cards don't seem to be permanent additions to that many people's cubes. If they don't make new c costed cards in the future, a few years down the road having anything with a C on it will likely make about as much sense as having anything with "Banding", "Phasing", or "snow".
I generally do the same thing in my Cube. I wound up replacing an FNM Mom (-> DD version) and a Judge Promo Grim Lavamancer (-> M2012 version) just for the correct creature types. It's also why I'm running unpimped versions of Krosan Tusker (none of the foils have the proper Beast in the type), Yavimaya Elder, and Sundering Titan, much like yourself.
This is something that's been on my mind for a while, so I wrote up a list of all the cube cards I could think of affected by the Grand Creature Type Update here. As I was putting this together, I found it actually affected quite a few more cards than I'd realized. Some of the swaps necessary for accurate wording are swaps I'm not really happy about either, aesthetically speaking. I really don't like the newer arts on Yavimaya Elder or Solemn Simulacrum.
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Seal of Cleansing, Memory Lapse, Mogg War Marshal are Cubed cards that have new art. Also of note is our first version of Braids with correct creature typing.
Set looks to be pretty high quality and high powered, with some minor disappointments. No Port, wish they picked Fyndhorn Elves over Llanowar Elves, disappointed they didn't do new art for Young Pyromancer.
Yeah I know. Is it possible they were too close to print (or had already started printing) by the time he passed? I don't know much about how far ahead of release stuff is printed and packaged.
In some ways it's a bit of an academic question since I don't have the money to replace all my dual land proxies right now. I may get there some day, but it won't be any time soon. Most likely I'll replace one or two proxies a year or something, and that's assuming life doesn't throw us any more curve balls. (Which, y'know, life has a habit of doing.)
I love the black borders, and the nostalgia of the wonky ABU print quality, but it is also nice to know that the cards are legit, tournament-legal copies.
Aesthetically, CE looks better because of the black borders, but Revised duals should hold their value better because they're tournament legal, so that's what I'd go with if I ever wanted to upgrade my proxies.
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465 card Unpowered cube thread. Draft it here and I'll be happy to return the favor.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I was sure that they would use the new picture if this card was in the set and the polar bear picture does look old, but it was a pretty iconic piece and I will miss it. Still, removing the last white bordered non-dual card from my cube beats keeping the iconic picture. And the new one isn't exactly bad either.
Edit: Woah, woah, woah, they returned to the old oracle wording! Winter Orb only works while untapped again. Icy shenanigans!
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Colorless isn't really supported yet besides TKS, Smasher, Kozilek, and maybe Matter Reshaper, but with as big of a change as it was I'd be willing to bet that they offer more support for it going forward.
I was skeptical about that mechanic being supportable in cube from the get-go, I never thought it was worth warping the mana base of a cube or even most cube decks to pay C costs. It might be OK if your cube is big enough that pain lands and filter lands already fit naturally as your 5th and 6th dual cycles (or you just don't run original duals and fetches), but not for cubes below 540. The thought of changing classic colorless lands and mana rocks to modern frame versions to accommodate C costs borders on offensive to me. You'll have to pry my black bordered Mishra's Factory, Strip Mine, and Worn Powerstone from my cold dead hands before I include versions of them that have C.
Maybe the payoff will be there in future sets, but I won't be in a rush to support C costs.
This is really important to me, too. I hadn't noticed this before, I'm glad I'm running the FTV Sundering Titan with the current type line.
Good lord, why did they decide to do this? Looks like I'll need to get the new version to keep it current, and Winter Orb won't just be an aggro card anymore.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I generally do the same thing in my Cube. I wound up replacing an FNM Mom (-> DD version) and a Judge Promo Grim Lavamancer (-> M2012 version) just for the correct creature types. It's also why I'm running unpimped versions of Krosan Tusker (none of the foils have the proper Beast in the type), Yavimaya Elder, and Sundering Titan, much like yourself.
I apply these rules pretty haphazardly though, like I think Beta Control Magic is ok because it doesn't really change how the card works even if the use of discard is a bit confusing, and actually the reminder that the creature remains tapped can be handy. However, I'd probably use the Time Spiral foil of Disenchant over the Beta version though because the use of discard there implies something different.
I've thought about the C question too, and I was briefly considering getting the Expedition versions just to make the whole Cube compatible with C if I ever decide to support it. I haven't pulled the trigger on this yet, but it's still an open question.
You and Ftz both touch on this, but IMO trying to make C consistent doesn't disqualify the really old cards that say "colorless mana" instead of 1. It's only the difference between 1 and C that's confusing since they actually mean different things. Given that C literally means colorless mana, having it spelled out vs having the symbol isn't that big of a deal (similar to running versions of cards that had vigilance and haste written out instead of having the keywords).
You're right. C doesn't exactly mean the same thing as 1, since the former is Obligate colorless mana, and the second is Generic OR colorless mana depending on context. This is why cards like Warping Wail and Spatial Contortion are printed the way they are... and why I dislike the oracle changes to older colorless lands.
But that might just me being an Old Fogey.
I don't think so. We're building eternal formats in a game with more than 20 years of history, and complexity creep is a real issue in plenty of playgroups. It certainly is in mine. So far, though, the C cost cards don't seem to be permanent additions to that many people's cubes. If they don't make new c costed cards in the future, a few years down the road having anything with a C on it will likely make about as much sense as having anything with "Banding", "Phasing", or "snow".
This is something that's been on my mind for a while, so I wrote up a list of all the cube cards I could think of affected by the Grand Creature Type Update here. As I was putting this together, I found it actually affected quite a few more cards than I'd realized. Some of the swaps necessary for accurate wording are swaps I'm not really happy about either, aesthetically speaking. I really don't like the newer arts on Yavimaya Elder or Solemn Simulacrum.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Seal of Cleansing, Memory Lapse, Mogg War Marshal are Cubed cards that have new art. Also of note is our first version of Braids with correct creature typing.
Set looks to be pretty high quality and high powered, with some minor disappointments. No Port, wish they picked Fyndhorn Elves over Llanowar Elves, disappointed they didn't do new art for Young Pyromancer.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
In some ways it's a bit of an academic question since I don't have the money to replace all my dual land proxies right now. I may get there some day, but it won't be any time soon. Most likely I'll replace one or two proxies a year or something, and that's assuming life doesn't throw us any more curve balls. (Which, y'know, life has a habit of doing.)
I love the black borders, and the nostalgia of the wonky ABU print quality, but it is also nice to know that the cards are legit, tournament-legal copies.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!