I'd go putrefy and then see whether my opponent would go for the primeval titan. If not, then I'd start cutting into the green with the treespeaker, and look for black/artifact avenues to pave more space.
As for the opponent, Blue/Red is sticking out at me, but I'm not sure how feasible this would be (haven't tried the method myself yet).
Tried the draft variant yesterday and it was tons of fun. Not necessarily balanced, or provoking convoluted thoughts, or extra competitive (though I'm not saying it's the opposite either), but the actual feeling of having the cards laid out that way is fun.
However, I found 8x8 pretty big. Four times 6x6, drafting a total of 36 cards per player, is what I'm going to try next.
I don't get the idea of having the inaccessible ones face down. You can't influence what will be unlocked next, which is kind of the crucial point here, you can only influence how many will be unlocked. Sounds more like Winchester to me, a format that I'm no fan of.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
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*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
Another possibility: deal out quilt face down. Turn face up each card with any edge exposed, and continue to do so as cards are drafted. Seems like a good compromise that retains some of the strategy of drafting, but avoids information overload.
I'd really like to try this version, only I might want to expose an additional "layer" of cards. I don't just flip over any card that could be picked next, I also flip over any card any of those could pick next.
Also, what would happen if both players just drafted an entire 9x9 quilt? I'm wondering why the OP decided to split it into two half quilts.
I don't get the idea of having the inaccessible ones face down. You can't influence what will be unlocked next, which is kind of the crucial point here, you can only influence how many will be unlocked. Sounds more like Winchester to me, a format that I'm no fan of.
The point is for people who don't want to know, from the outset, every card in the pool. Having some of the cards face down allows for some mystery as to what the rest of the pool might contain.
The reason to stop halfway into a quilt is to force people to have to work to get the cards they want, and to make sure you can effectively prevent certain cards from being drafted. Once about 2/3rd of the quilt is drafted, just about every card is available, and you're just rochestering with a small subset of the cube. Also, the redeal allows for more cards total to choose from, which allows for narrower archetypes to be drafted (i.e., reanimator, artifact.dec, etc.)
Alright, tried this out last night as prescribed by the OP & it was a blast!
My first thoughts were that we might not have enough playables with only 32 picks or the decks would be weaker, and I was thinking about ticking it up to 3 quilts taking 15 picks each (rather than 16) to achieve the 45-card pool I'm used to, but after the first 2 quilts our pools were more than potent enough to build from.
The hate draft aspect was certainly interesting... neither of us really hated out much but there were certainly times when I saw cards that I knew I wanted and at the same time knew were unobtainable.
I drafted RG Wildfire ramp, and saw and wanted both a Karn and an Inferno Titan but realized that, since my opponent knew all of what I was drafting, if I moved to "unlock" those picks they were guaranteed to be taken by my opponent (and visa-versa for some of his picks), and if key cards that you want are surrounded by mediocre picks you have no incentive to go after them. When those key cards are locked by other key cards, however, it's much more interesting
The best thing about it was the much larger number of cards in the pool (since you only pick half of them) which you don't get in any other 1v1 cube formats like winston or winchester.
I'd be interested to try this out with locked cards face-down (or all cards farther than 1 pick away from being unlocked). It would definitely make your pick planning easier & save time, although the decks would probably be weaker & you'd get to see a lot fewer cards overall (which is quilt's big boon imo). If I tried it that way I'd probably want to draft a third quilt or draft closer to 3/4 of each quilt to get more picks to compensate.
cons - takes much more table space than winchester or winston
I look forward to trying this out. Looks like a lot of fun.
I was thinking about the redeal at 32 cards. I wonder if there's a way to make a "strike" system or something similar (kind of like the god tiles in Ra). Like you draft the 64 until you hit 3 strikes. Then you redeal. I can't think of a way to implement it though. I do like the tension of wondering if you can get a card you're working your way to in time before the redeal.
Maybe I should try the simple version on its own first.
Timing for your late pickups (to make sure you can reach a locked card in time) seemed pretty important when I tried it out.
With a strike system that doesn't have a set number of picks you can plan for this sort of goes out the window. If I know that I have 3 picks left, I can pick up 2 so-so cards to unlock the crucial card that I couldn't reach before, just in time for my last pick; if I don't know that I have 3 picks left, and it turns out I only have 2, I'd have have wasted my last 2 picks & probably would have been better off ignoring that crucial out-of-reach card entirely.
That'd really only apply to a quilt with all cards face up, but if you wanted to come up with a strike system I'd plan to compensate for that.
I just want to post that I tried this with a friend today using his cube and it was extremely fun and we enjoyed the strategic aspect of it. We were talking about maybe extending the kilt to a bigger grid (like to 9x9 or something of the sort) to compensate for more players (since we get anywhere from 2-5 players).
And strategically unlocking cards was important because midway through our draft, I basically took a liliana spectre and unlocked 2 big cards. Library of Alexandria and Sword of Feast and Famine, this action actually benefited me more in the end because I took the sword which allowed me to dig into the utility spells in the middle as well (which weren't part of his colours, and worked to my reanimation strategy). These "unlockings" are really crucial and sometimes necessary as the cardpool gets more and more narrow. However, this can get more simpler as you get more players or it turns into a stupid hatedraftfest...which I'll have to see.
I draft with two people almost exclusively, and haven't really thought about how it would play with more. If you have the table space, a 9x10 or 9x9 grid with three seems like it would work. Let me know how it goes...
Oh, and the last time we quilted, we used a chess clock and only had 15 seconds to make each pick. Very stressful...
I tried this out just yesterday, played esper tinker/reanimator with 2 on-color mox. Since then I've done 3 more. Great format, tons of fun! The only issue I have is Concerning space. I can't fit all 64 cards on two playmats, which hasn't been too big a deal for the cards themselves but bothers me personally.
Yeah, it's become our second default 2-man format (along with sealed). We've been doing 3 quilts of 64 over here. Each player ends up with 48 cards at the end, so you're able to go for lands or blow some picks to get to a chase pick.
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Man, I enjoyed the hell out of quilting. We did it with both 2 and 3 players. Good times indeed.
How'd the 3-man Quilting go? With 2 opposing picks between each of your own picks, did you guys find it more awkward planning your moves? Were hate-picks more of an issue?
A friend did a 3-man quilt this weekend, and tried 4 sets of 64 (with a redeal after 32 picks). He reported that the decks were REALLY strong, but that it worked. The turn order was apparently a bit tricky to suss out. Going first or last can be a real advantage.
Has anyone considered trying to do more interesting shapes than a square? By laying the cards out in a "+" shape, you'd start off with a lot more cards available. Definitely changes things up. Dunno if it makes your choices too unrestricted, though.
did this with 4 players. we rolled dice every 2 turns to determine the picking order for the quilt, as it seemed first and last pickers have a very good advantage
did this with 4 players. we rolled dice every 2 turns to determine the picking order for the quilt, as it seemed first and last pickers have a very good advantage
So, did you do four quilts, drafting 32 of 64? How was the power level? What were the decks like?
Did this yesterday with 3 players. We did three quilts taking 11 cards from each. If you haven't tried it yet, I can't recommend it enough. The decks were very successful; I drafted a ramp/reanimator with both SotF & Recurring Nightmare, my partner drafted BWu control, and our friend drafted RWu aggro/tempo.
I was impressed by how the quilt was a game itself. Swords to Plowshares was never drafted because it would have freed grave titan up. I can't wait to do it again.
I tested this out, doing 4 sets of a 6x6 quilt with 9 picks each in a P1-P2-P2-P1 order for who goes first in the quilt. It is extremely interesting to weigh card quality and deck needs in this fashion and I'll probably keep drafting this way for a long long time.
I moved to the use of 4 quilts rather than 2 so I could balance out the inherent advantage of going first.
I tested this out, doing 4 sets of a 6x6 quilt with 9 picks each in a P1-P2-P2-P1 order for who goes first in the quilt. It is extremely interesting to weigh card quality and deck needs in this fashion and I'll probably keep drafting this way for a long long time.
I moved to the use of 4 quilts rather than 2 so I could balance out the inherent advantage of going first.
Interesting! We haven't found that going first is too big an advantage--in fact, going LAST can be an advantage if there is a good card each player avoids taking because it unlocks an even better card. I'd think that going first AND last would actually be more overpowered.
My concern with a 6x6 grid is that you can access the cards in the middle too easily, and that nearly every card is unlocked by the end. Is that how it plays out?
Not really, I reduced the cards you take per quilt. You can reach a card or two in the middle, but it's not particularly easy.
Going first out of the whole process is definitely stronger. You get to pick first out of all the cards available with no color restrictions and all that. Going last has the advantage of not unlocking something, but it's an advantage that occasionally might not matter.
The way I do it, someone goes first, then last, then last, then first again.
As for the opponent, Blue/Red is sticking out at me, but I'm not sure how feasible this would be (haven't tried the method myself yet).
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However, I found 8x8 pretty big. Four times 6x6, drafting a total of 36 cards per player, is what I'm going to try next.
I don't get the idea of having the inaccessible ones face down. You can't influence what will be unlocked next, which is kind of the crucial point here, you can only influence how many will be unlocked. Sounds more like Winchester to me, a format that I'm no fan of.
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
I'd really like to try this version, only I might want to expose an additional "layer" of cards. I don't just flip over any card that could be picked next, I also flip over any card any of those could pick next.
Also, what would happen if both players just drafted an entire 9x9 quilt? I'm wondering why the OP decided to split it into two half quilts.
The point is for people who don't want to know, from the outset, every card in the pool. Having some of the cards face down allows for some mystery as to what the rest of the pool might contain.
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My first thoughts were that we might not have enough playables with only 32 picks or the decks would be weaker, and I was thinking about ticking it up to 3 quilts taking 15 picks each (rather than 16) to achieve the 45-card pool I'm used to, but after the first 2 quilts our pools were more than potent enough to build from.
The hate draft aspect was certainly interesting... neither of us really hated out much but there were certainly times when I saw cards that I knew I wanted and at the same time knew were unobtainable.
I drafted RG Wildfire ramp, and saw and wanted both a Karn and an Inferno Titan but realized that, since my opponent knew all of what I was drafting, if I moved to "unlock" those picks they were guaranteed to be taken by my opponent (and visa-versa for some of his picks), and if key cards that you want are surrounded by mediocre picks you have no incentive to go after them. When those key cards are locked by other key cards, however, it's much more interesting
The best thing about it was the much larger number of cards in the pool (since you only pick half of them) which you don't get in any other 1v1 cube formats like winston or winchester.
I'd be interested to try this out with locked cards face-down (or all cards farther than 1 pick away from being unlocked). It would definitely make your pick planning easier & save time, although the decks would probably be weaker & you'd get to see a lot fewer cards overall (which is quilt's big boon imo). If I tried it that way I'd probably want to draft a third quilt or draft closer to 3/4 of each quilt to get more picks to compensate.
cons - takes much more table space than winchester or winston
I was thinking about the redeal at 32 cards. I wonder if there's a way to make a "strike" system or something similar (kind of like the god tiles in Ra). Like you draft the 64 until you hit 3 strikes. Then you redeal. I can't think of a way to implement it though. I do like the tension of wondering if you can get a card you're working your way to in time before the redeal.
Maybe I should try the simple version on its own first.
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With a strike system that doesn't have a set number of picks you can plan for this sort of goes out the window. If I know that I have 3 picks left, I can pick up 2 so-so cards to unlock the crucial card that I couldn't reach before, just in time for my last pick; if I don't know that I have 3 picks left, and it turns out I only have 2, I'd have have wasted my last 2 picks & probably would have been better off ignoring that crucial out-of-reach card entirely.
That'd really only apply to a quilt with all cards face up, but if you wanted to come up with a strike system I'd plan to compensate for that.
And strategically unlocking cards was important because midway through our draft, I basically took a liliana spectre and unlocked 2 big cards. Library of Alexandria and Sword of Feast and Famine, this action actually benefited me more in the end because I took the sword which allowed me to dig into the utility spells in the middle as well (which weren't part of his colours, and worked to my reanimation strategy). These "unlockings" are really crucial and sometimes necessary as the cardpool gets more and more narrow. However, this can get more simpler as you get more players or it turns into a stupid hatedraftfest...which I'll have to see.
Oh, and the last time we quilted, we used a chess clock and only had 15 seconds to make each pick. Very stressful...
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How'd the 3-man Quilting go? With 2 opposing picks between each of your own picks, did you guys find it more awkward planning your moves? Were hate-picks more of an issue?
I'd love to hear more specific reports!
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Has anyone considered trying to do more interesting shapes than a square? By laying the cards out in a "+" shape, you'd start off with a lot more cards available. Definitely changes things up. Dunno if it makes your choices too unrestricted, though.
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So, did you do four quilts, drafting 32 of 64? How was the power level? What were the decks like?
Most importantly, was it fun?
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I was impressed by how the quilt was a game itself. Swords to Plowshares was never drafted because it would have freed grave titan up. I can't wait to do it again.
I moved to the use of 4 quilts rather than 2 so I could balance out the inherent advantage of going first.
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Interesting! We haven't found that going first is too big an advantage--in fact, going LAST can be an advantage if there is a good card each player avoids taking because it unlocks an even better card. I'd think that going first AND last would actually be more overpowered.
My concern with a 6x6 grid is that you can access the cards in the middle too easily, and that nearly every card is unlocked by the end. Is that how it plays out?
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Going first out of the whole process is definitely stronger. You get to pick first out of all the cards available with no color restrictions and all that. Going last has the advantage of not unlocking something, but it's an advantage that occasionally might not matter.
The way I do it, someone goes first, then last, then last, then first again.
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