What bounce makes the cut for everyone's cube? Here is what we use. Hopefully I can get some ideas for what else is good enough to include.
(I may forget about a few cards, especially creatures or something that have bounces as a CITP effect)
We use: Chain of Vapor, Echoing Truth, Recoil, Rushing River, Wipe Away, Stingscourger, Boom/Bust, Upheaval, Crystal Shard, Erratic Portal, Repeal, Seal of Removal, The Battlemage that can bounce two creatures, and Wash Out. I think that is it. Because bounce is so strong I want to include another piece or two, but I can't decide what. Boomerang just never seemed good enough, Unsummon is obviously (to me) subpar, and I can't afford a few of the good pieces (Venser, for example). Are there any affordable cards that I am missing which would be good? I am sure I forgot a few pieces but that is mostly it.
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Jeff
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Legacy: Dredge, TES, SI variants
Wow. I did forget about a lot of bounce in the cube, and some of the best. We are running Capsize, Man-o-War, Waterfront Bouncer, Temporal Spring, and Crosis's Charm. I can't believe I forgot about Capsize and Bouncer, both cards are some of my top picks.
I really need to get a Snap, its cheap and really good. I didn't know it existed. With all the karoos and such a lot of the urza's block spells where you untap lands are amazing. Equilibruim looks good too.
Repulse, Boomerang, and Withdrawl just weren't working for us, but I'm sure the specific make-up of a cube is a factor in how good a card is.
I would love Venser or Cryptic Command in the cube, I just don't have the money (and I don't like proxying)
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Jeff
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I really like bounce too and have been looking to include more of it, but I'm not sure how to fit it in. I wish I had the room for Waterfront Bouncer and Crystal Shard. Wash Out is solid too.
If I were you, I'd try and make room for the Crystal Shard. That card is not only good, but I'm pretty sure it's a staple. The interaction between this card and all your CITP creatures is disgusting. Not to mention the ability to bounce your opponent's creatures too. Too good.
I saw a post of someone wanting to take out Repulse. I say NO! Repulse is amazing! Tempo card that is splashable and cantrips? Awesome. Definite inclusion imo.
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I saw a post of someone wanting to take out Repulse. I say NO! Repulse is amazing! Tempo card that is splashable and cantrips? Awesome. Definite inclusion imo.
Ya, I've been more than happy with Repulse. It has a permanent home in my cube.
Venser at 3 bucks is too much. I make a personal rule to not spend more than a buck or so on any card for the cube. I make exceptions sometimes, but Venser isn't on the same level as cards I make exceptions for, eg Balance, Strip Mine, Yawg's Will, Regrowth, etc.
Plus, I usually like to find a seller that has more than one card to buy (unless its last minute before a legacy tournement or something) so that I minimize my shipping costs.
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Jeff
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If you want to remove any of the mentioned i would say Boomerang. UU is too expensive, and there are better alternatives.
I won't ever remove the Boomerang from my cube, either. It's huge because it can target permanents instead of just creatures. Bounce the Worship and swing for the win... or bounce the Bridge and swing for the win. It allows you to remove non-creature cards from the board... as a blue card, with counter backup. I can't tell you how many times I've prevented death from cards like Cursed Scroll, a Stormbind or a Sulfuric Vortex because of Boomerang. If you replace it with another bounce effect that only targets creatures, you're removing a solid answer to broken non-creature permanents.
Plus, you can bounce opponent's lands early for a pseudo Time Walk effect. Plus, it's sick on the Scepter as mentioned before.
Also, how is it possible that Crystal Shard not make the cut? That card is so good! You force your OP to keep mana open and you get to reuse all your CITP creatures over and over. There are just so many creatures its busted with, with Shriekmaw you can just return it to your hand while the ability is on the stack when you evoke it, you can keep evoking your mulldrifter, your eternal witness is a recurring regrowth, your flametongue kavu nukes all your OPs creatures. The list of uses for this thing is endless.
Also, about boomerang. I agree that UU is too much for what it does. The other double colored mana cost bounce is just so much better than boomerang ends up not getting picked until the end of the pack. Wipe Away, Recoil, and Capsize just plain out-class Boomerang in just about every situation.
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Jeff
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Just because there are better bounce spells doesn't mean you shouldn't include the Boomerang. Lightning Bolt is better than Shock, and Shock is still good enough for the cube. Plus, the being better part is debatable. What else bounces any permanent at instant speed for 2?
I can see why it could get cut, I was just listing the reasons why I won't cut it from mine. Eh... To each their own.
Recent discussion comparing Into the Roil and Repeal has me thinking about bounce spells in cube, which ones I should run, and how much of this effect I need. This thread was the most extensive one I could find on the subject here, and it could probably use an update.
I don't think boomerang is good enough anymore, and I also am getting less and less impressed with capsize, it's so hard to build a situation where you actually have a soft lock with the card which was its big selling point to me. I think I'd run repeal over both of those (although we don't run either or repeal.) The rest of your list is spot on IMO.
I'd like to also suggest Tradewind Rider as a possible playable for larger cubes, hes not as impressive as he used to be but he still has the potential to be a power house.
On an unrelated note, I missed the dates in the early posts in the thread and was SUPER confused the lists people were posting.
I need more bounce in my cube. Most of it is strapped to creatures and other effects. I'd love to get Repeal and Into the Roil back into my list.
And seeing comments of mine from back in the days of the classic cube is awesome. So many cool cards that fit that environment that just don't hack it in traditional cubes (especially not anymore).
Capsize may be better in my cube than some because I run Conspiracies. As one of the few buyback that's good enough for cube, it's a fantastic target for Double Stroke and Iterative Analysis. I know Boomerang is unorthodox these days, but I'm very curious to try it because it's the cheapest bounce spell that can also hit lands, which in the early stages of the game makes it a virtual instant-speed Sinkhole in blue.
Ace_Stevo, how are Unsummon and Vapor Snag working for you? They look tempting because they're so cheap, even if they're not quite as versatile as the bounce spells that cost 2, creatures are probably going to be the best target for bounce anyway.
And seeing comments of mine from back in the days of the classic cube is awesome. So many cool cards that fit that environment that just don't hack it in traditional cubes (especially not anymore).
Heh, I didn't bring this thread up just for the nostalgia, but I've gotta admit I chuckled seeing you sing the praises of Shock.
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(I may forget about a few cards, especially creatures or something that have bounces as a CITP effect)
We use: Chain of Vapor, Echoing Truth, Recoil, Rushing River, Wipe Away, Stingscourger, Boom/Bust, Upheaval, Crystal Shard, Erratic Portal, Repeal, Seal of Removal, The Battlemage that can bounce two creatures, and Wash Out. I think that is it. Because bounce is so strong I want to include another piece or two, but I can't decide what. Boomerang just never seemed good enough, Unsummon is obviously (to me) subpar, and I can't afford a few of the good pieces (Venser, for example). Are there any affordable cards that I am missing which would be good? I am sure I forgot a few pieces but that is mostly it.
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Man-o'-War
Equilibrium
Riftwing Cloudskate
Snap
Waterfront Bouncer
Kederekt Leviathan
Withdraw
Selkie Hedge-Mage is also there, although I'm not a huge fan of it, myself.
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I wouldn't remove a single one of these cards from my cube. The one that you overlooked must be Capsize. That card's busted and it's a common.
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Cryptic Command also kinda acts as bounce.
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I really need to get a Snap, its cheap and really good. I didn't know it existed. With all the karoos and such a lot of the urza's block spells where you untap lands are amazing. Equilibruim looks good too.
Repulse, Boomerang, and Withdrawl just weren't working for us, but I'm sure the specific make-up of a cube is a factor in how good a card is.
I would love Venser or Cryptic Command in the cube, I just don't have the money (and I don't like proxying)
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Recoil
I really like bounce too and have been looking to include more of it, but I'm not sure how to fit it in. I wish I had the room for Waterfront Bouncer and Crystal Shard. Wash Out is solid too.
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If I were you, I'd try and make room for the Crystal Shard. That card is not only good, but I'm pretty sure it's a staple. The interaction between this card and all your CITP creatures is disgusting. Not to mention the ability to bounce your opponent's creatures too. Too good.
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Here's a link to a Venser, Shaper Savant on eBay that's only $3.00 with very reasonable shipping:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Venser-Shaper-Savant-MTG-NM-M-Future-Sight_W0QQitemZ330308996124QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0
Cheaper than they used to be!
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Ya, I've been more than happy with Repulse. It has a permanent home in my cube.
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UU is too expensive, and there are better alternatives.
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Plus, I usually like to find a seller that has more than one card to buy (unless its last minute before a legacy tournement or something) so that I minimize my shipping costs.
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I won't ever remove the Boomerang from my cube, either. It's huge because it can target permanents instead of just creatures. Bounce the Worship and swing for the win... or bounce the Bridge and swing for the win. It allows you to remove non-creature cards from the board... as a blue card, with counter backup. I can't tell you how many times I've prevented death from cards like Cursed Scroll, a Stormbind or a Sulfuric Vortex because of Boomerang. If you replace it with another bounce effect that only targets creatures, you're removing a solid answer to broken non-creature permanents.
Plus, you can bounce opponent's lands early for a pseudo Time Walk effect. Plus, it's sick on the Scepter as mentioned before.
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Also, about boomerang. I agree that UU is too much for what it does. The other double colored mana cost bounce is just so much better than boomerang ends up not getting picked until the end of the pack. Wipe Away, Recoil, and Capsize just plain out-class Boomerang in just about every situation.
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I can see why it could get cut, I was just listing the reasons why I won't cut it from mine. Eh... To each their own.
Heh... I just saw Jilt. That card looks cool.
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Here's what I'm running at 465:
Spells:
Boomerang - This is a recent addition I'm testing over Repulse
Cyclonic Rift
Into the Roil
Capsize
Upheaval
Crystal Shard
Far // Away
Bounce on a stick:
Waterfront Bouncer
Aether Adept
Man-o'-War
Venser, Shaper Savant
Riftwing Cloudskate
Bounce I'd be running if it didn't have to sell a kidney to buy it:
Cryptic Command
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
How much bounce is enough/too much? Any hidden gems I should be trying?
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
I'd like to also suggest Tradewind Rider as a possible playable for larger cubes, hes not as impressive as he used to be but he still has the potential to be a power house.
On an unrelated note, I missed the dates in the early posts in the thread and was SUPER confused the lists people were posting.
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Unsummon
Vapor Snag
Disperse
Into the Roil
Cryptic Command
Repeal
Cyclonic Rift
Jace, TMS (I guess)
Creatures wise:
Aether Adept
Man O' War
Venser
Modern: Jund
And seeing comments of mine from back in the days of the classic cube is awesome. So many cool cards that fit that environment that just don't hack it in traditional cubes (especially not anymore).
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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Ace_Stevo, how are Unsummon and Vapor Snag working for you? They look tempting because they're so cheap, even if they're not quite as versatile as the bounce spells that cost 2, creatures are probably going to be the best target for bounce anyway.
Heh, I didn't bring this thread up just for the nostalgia, but I've gotta admit I chuckled seeing you sing the praises of Shock.
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Creatures:
Man-o'-War
Venser
Spells:
JtMS
Cyclonic Rift
Capsize
Cryptic Command
Repeal
Upheaval
Crystal Shard
Also apparently Far//Away. I thought I took that out, but Cubetutor says I didn't.
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