Established decks like Ramanap Red, GB Energy and Mardu Vehicles will probably be the go to decks moving forward but this set looks to really shake up standard. Sure there are some powerful new pieces but I think Ixalan has started to define itself on the number of answers it's printing. Sorcerer's Spyglass, Lightning Strike, Spell Pierce, Vraska's Contempt, Ixalan looks to make sure nothing gets too out of control. We haven't seen the whole of the set but I'm sure of one thing, this rotation looks to be a big one.
At the first spoiler article addressing the rare leaks and the massive spoiler drop, I felt like this set was looking value heavy. The combination of Checklands and Cyclelands makes mana look consistent, new cards like Ripjaw Raptor had me giddy, and (at the time) I was pretty sure the go to removal spells was likely to stay Fatal Push and Harnessed Lightning. I quickly wrote up a basic decklist.
I wanted more ramp early on but thought that Walking Balista was more important. The deck just wanted to play big good creatures and back them up with tried and tested removal. Since then here's what the deck has picked up: Lightning Strike, Drover of the Mighty, Regisaur Alpha. Three cards aren't much but Lightning Strike alone is pretty huge. I'm not sure I'd play Drover over a card like Channeler Initiate but it's still another option and unlike Channeler and Servant the Drover doesn't need anything to tap for mana. No energy, no -1/-1 counters, it can always tap for mana. That's notable. Regisaur Alpha is just good rate. We're not a dinosaur deck but maybe 7 power across 2 bodies and haste for future Alpha's and Ripjaw's is good enough. As far as pure value creatures go I'm not sure it beats out Verdurous Gearhulk or our Glorybringer's but it's still a nice option. We've also got a new planeswalker in Vraska when she eventually get's spoiled, can't promise she'd be in our deck but she is in our colors. For now here's my updated decklist:
Not a huge change, and I'm still guessing on the manabase. Servant and Drover ramp me by one while fixing my mana. Drover is in smaller numbers since they can be killed by Walking Ballista but they do have the fun synergy of Turn 2 Drover into Turn 3 Raptor. That's 7 power if they didn't have an answer. Every creature in the deck is doing multiple things. Our Two Drops ramp, Raider and Raptor can replace themselves and possibly more. Glorybringer is the best 5 drop in standard IMO and I can't believe it hasn't found a deck where it gets to be a 4 of in the main yet. Ammit Eternal is probably the most out of place but it's still a 5/5 for 3. I feel like if there was an argument to go heavier on land it's that a) I'm a midrange deck with more than a few double mana symbol spells, and b) cycle lands may be tap lands but cycling gives them relevance late game as well.
It's a start but not really a rough one, all the cards we're adding look great. I know we're far from the mana of Innistrad/RTR standard but between enemy fastlands and ally cycle and checklands, not to mention Aether Hub, three color midrange is looking strong again. Of course I'm still pretty sure this standard will be one defined by the answers but that still makes me think the threats have to be worthy of them. And of course, it's a new standard. I'll always brew Jund.
Established decks like Ramanap Red, GB Energy and Mardu Vehicles will probably be the go to decks moving forward but this set looks to really shake up standard. Sure there are some powerful new pieces but I think Ixalan has started to define itself on the number of answers it's printing. Sorcerer's Spyglass, Lightning Strike, Spell Pierce, Vraska's Contempt, Ixalan looks to make sure nothing gets too out of control. We haven't seen the whole of the set but I'm sure of one thing, this rotation looks to be a big one.
At the first spoiler article addressing the rare leaks and the massive spoiler drop, I felt like this set was looking value heavy. The combination of Checklands and Cyclelands makes mana look consistent, new cards like Ripjaw Raptor had me giddy, and (at the time) I was pretty sure the go to removal spells was likely to stay Fatal Push and Harnessed Lightning. I quickly wrote up a basic decklist.
I wanted more ramp early on but thought that Walking Balista was more important. The deck just wanted to play big good creatures and back them up with tried and tested removal. Since then here's what the deck has picked up: Lightning Strike, Drover of the Mighty, Regisaur Alpha. Three cards aren't much but Lightning Strike alone is pretty huge. I'm not sure I'd play Drover over a card like Channeler Initiate but it's still another option and unlike Channeler and Servant the Drover doesn't need anything to tap for mana. No energy, no -1/-1 counters, it can always tap for mana. That's notable. Regisaur Alpha is just good rate. We're not a dinosaur deck but maybe 7 power across 2 bodies and haste for future Alpha's and Ripjaw's is good enough. As far as pure value creatures go I'm not sure it beats out Verdurous Gearhulk or our Glorybringer's but it's still a nice option. We've also got a new planeswalker in Vraska when she eventually get's spoiled, can't promise she'd be in our deck but she is in our colors. For now here's my updated decklist:
Not a huge change, and I'm still guessing on the manabase. Servant and Drover ramp me by one while fixing my mana. Drover is in smaller numbers since they can be killed by Walking Ballista but they do have the fun synergy of Turn 2 Drover into Turn 3 Raptor. That's 7 power if they didn't have an answer. Every creature in the deck is doing multiple things. Our Two Drops ramp, Raider and Raptor can replace themselves and possibly more. Glorybringer is the best 5 drop in standard IMO and I can't believe it hasn't found a deck where it gets to be a 4 of in the main yet. Ammit Eternal is probably the most out of place but it's still a 5/5 for 3. I feel like if there was an argument to go heavier on land it's that a) I'm a midrange deck with more than a few double mana symbol spells, and b) cycle lands may be tap lands but cycling gives them relevance late game as well.
It's a start but not really a rough one, all the cards we're adding look great. I know we're far from the mana of Innistrad/RTR standard but between enemy fastlands and ally cycle and checklands, not to mention Aether Hub, three color midrange is looking strong again. Of course I'm still pretty sure this standard will be one defined by the answers but that still makes me think the threats have to be worthy of them. And of course, it's a new standard. I'll always brew Jund.
I'm really liking everything in the deck accept for Ruin Raider. You really don't want this card in a Jund build, let alone ANY midrange build. Why? Because you'll end up killing yourself long before your opponent does. Raiders ability is not a "may clause," meaning you must draw a card whenever Raid is triggered. Now say you draw a Ripjaw Raptor one turn, and the next draw a Glorybringer off of Raider. That's 9 damage you've dealt to yourself without your opponent having not done anything to you at all. And Jund typically doesn't run lifegain... Raider belongs in aggro/weenie deck that draws 1-3 drop creatures that deal little damage to you each time you draw off of it. I'd ditch -3 Ruin Raider and add +2 Drover of the Mighty and maybe another Cut // Ribbons or Ammit Eternal MB.
So I was trying to make a Jund Dino deck work, however black doesn't really compliment the dinosaurs and my deck didn't really benefit from running all dinosaurs other than Commune with Dinosaurs.
So I scrapped that idea and am now thinking about running a straight up Jund mid-range deck. Use discard and removal to control and stabilize the board. Use resilient threats to gain card advantage and close out the game. Haven't had a chance to playtest any of it yet.
No sideboard yet, as we have no idea how the meta will shape up.
A bit on some of the card choices:
Gifted Aetherborn - A great stall against Ramunap Red and just a great card overall. Having deathtouch really makes someone think twice before attacking into it. Carnage Tyrant - Originally this was Verdurous Gearhulk, but I have always had a little trouble with control and a resolved Carnage Tyrant seems like a really big headache for them.
Cards I am considering:
Raptor Hatchling - A 1/1 for RR doesn't seem great, but the thought of wiping the board and being left with a 3/3 trample sounds great. Furthermore I think it'll help smooth out the mana for my curve Ranging Raptors - Currently I only have 2 3-drops in Rhonas the Indomitable and I don't love it. So the thought of putting in another creature into that slot sounds nice. Also should I wipe the board with Sweltering Suns, I essentially ramp myself.
Then again if I drop Gifted Aetherborn Im only really keeping black for some removal, so is it worth it? Also If I end up with those other cards, might as well go Dino Power at that point.
So I was trying to make a Jund Dino deck work, however black doesn't really compliment the dinosaurs and my deck didn't really benefit from running all dinosaurs other than Commune with Dinosaurs.
So I scrapped that idea and am now thinking about running a straight up Jund mid-range deck. Use discard and removal to control and stabilize the board. Use resilient threats to gain card advantage and close out the game. Haven't had a chance to playtest any of it yet.
No sideboard yet, as we have no idea how the meta will shape up.
A bit on some of the card choices:
Gifted Aetherborn - A great stall against Ramunap Red and just a great card overall. Having deathtouch really makes someone think twice before attacking into it. Carnage Tyrant - Originally this was Verdurous Gearhulk, but I have always had a little trouble with control and a resolved Carnage Tyrant seems like a really big headache for them.
Cards I am considering:
Raptor Hatchling - A 1/1 for RR doesn't seem great, but the thought of wiping the board and being left with a 3/3 trample sounds great. Furthermore I think it'll help smooth out the mana for my curve Ranging Raptors - Currently I only have 2 3-drops in Rhonas the Indomitable and I don't love it. So the thought of putting in another creature into that slot sounds nice. Also should I wipe the board with Sweltering Suns, I essentially ramp myself.
Then again if I drop Gifted Aetherborn Im only really keeping black for some removal, so is it worth it? Also If I end up with those other cards, might as well go Dino Power at that point.
What are everyone's thoughts?
This is really close to what I wanted to run. I like black for vraska's contempt and vraska as well, so if you drop gifted aetherborn, you still have a good reason to be in black. I think I like lay bare the heart better than duress, mostly because you only have 6 turn 1 untapped black sources.
So I was trying to make a Jund Dino deck work, however black doesn't really compliment the dinosaurs and my deck didn't really benefit from running all dinosaurs other than Commune with Dinosaurs.
So I scrapped that idea and am now thinking about running a straight up Jund mid-range deck. Use discard and removal to control and stabilize the board. Use resilient threats to gain card advantage and close out the game. Haven't had a chance to playtest any of it yet.
No sideboard yet, as we have no idea how the meta will shape up.
A bit on some of the card choices:
Gifted Aetherborn - A great stall against Ramunap Red and just a great card overall. Having deathtouch really makes someone think twice before attacking into it. Carnage Tyrant - Originally this was Verdurous Gearhulk, but I have always had a little trouble with control and a resolved Carnage Tyrant seems like a really big headache for them.
Cards I am considering:
Raptor Hatchling - A 1/1 for RR doesn't seem great, but the thought of wiping the board and being left with a 3/3 trample sounds great. Furthermore I think it'll help smooth out the mana for my curve Ranging Raptors - Currently I only have 2 3-drops in Rhonas the Indomitable and I don't love it. So the thought of putting in another creature into that slot sounds nice. Also should I wipe the board with Sweltering Suns, I essentially ramp myself.
Then again if I drop Gifted Aetherborn Im only really keeping black for some removal, so is it worth it? Also If I end up with those other cards, might as well go Dino Power at that point.
What are everyone's thoughts?
This is really close to what I wanted to run. I like black for vraska's contempt and vraska as well, so if you drop gifted aetherborn, you still have a good reason to be in black. I think I like lay bare the heart better than duress, mostly because you only have 6 turn 1 untapped black sources.
So I have updated this a bit since the last post.
In regards to Vraska's Contempt and Vraska, Relic Seeker, I like them, just not sure they fit in this deck. Vraska is asking a lot out of a 6cmc planeswalker. She feels more like a build around card to me. Contempt is nice, but expensive. Most of the time I think Walk the Plank is a better option. The exile is nice, but with Zombies rotating out, recursion doesn't seem like its THAT big of a concept.
Contempt will probably be a 2 of, but it's an answer to a planeswalker. Without it, the only answer to a resolved nicol bolas will be glory bringer. Its flexibility to be able to answer anything makes it one of the best midrange removal spells available.
Contempt will probably be a 2 of, but it's an answer to a planeswalker. Without it, the only answer to a resolved nicol bolas will be glory bringer. Its flexibility to be able to answer anything makes it one of the best midrange removal spells available.
I don't disagree with you. Just wish I had someplace to put it. Also wish I could fit cut // ribbons back in, but had to drop it for other things.
No board yet but just an aggressive midrange deck playing all the best value in the jund colors. A bit weak to early removal but if out dorks untap or chandra lives a turn we can really take over.
No board yet but just an aggressive midrange deck playing all the best value in the jund colors. A bit weak to early removal but if out dorks untap or chandra lives a turn we can really take over.
Interesting take.
A few things:
1. Why no Lightning Bolt?
2. How has Ammit Eternal been? Our 3-drop slot is a little bare so he is a good choice, however I feel he belongs in a more Jund or MonoBlack Aggro build. The games I have been testing go to round 17+, so I feel as though by that time his -1/-1 counters will get the best of him. With no way to remove them, I wonder if he is a liability.
3. Why Vraska, as opposed to something like Carnage Tyrant. I like Vraska, just at 6cmc I expect a lot and I dont feel like she synergizes awesome with the deck. Yes her abilities are great and I want to play her, I just feel like she hasn't found the right home yet.
4. With that much "ramp" I don't think you need all those lands. In my current build I am running 4x Attune and 4x Servant of the Conduit with 22 lands and it hasn't been an issue.
It has been testing very well. About a 60% winrate vs Ramunap Red and about 75% vs Temur. The mana is way more constant and curves out very nicely. It also has MD answers to Hazoret, Scarab God, and Tyrant.
I like Aboimila's deck quite a bit. I think i'll test it next standard. Is Chandra + Ripjaw Raptor enough card draw? What are your thoughts on Sword Point Diplomacy?
It depends on how often you need the mana and when. Servant is better if you need to swing in, but in my own mind drover is the better card in the absence of decent energy makers. If you're using Aether Hub then definitely use Servant of the Conduit.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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At the first spoiler article addressing the rare leaks and the massive spoiler drop, I felt like this set was looking value heavy. The combination of Checklands and Cyclelands makes mana look consistent, new cards like Ripjaw Raptor had me giddy, and (at the time) I was pretty sure the go to removal spells was likely to stay Fatal Push and Harnessed Lightning. I quickly wrote up a basic decklist.
4 Walking Ballista
4 Ruin Raider
4 Ammit Eternal
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Glorybringer
4 Fatal Push
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Vraska's Contempt
4 Aether Hub
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Canyon Slough
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Sheltered Thicket
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Walking Ballista
2 Drover of the Mighty
3 Ruin Raider
3 Ammit Eternal
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Glorybringer
SPELLS (14)
3 Attune with Aether
4 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Strike
1 Cut // Ribbons
2 Vraska's Contempt
2 Aether Hub
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Canyon Slough
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Sheltered Thicket
2 Blooming Marsh
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Abrade
3 Shapers' Sanctuary
3 Dispossess
2 Carnage Tyrant
1 Doomfall
It's a start but not really a rough one, all the cards we're adding look great. I know we're far from the mana of Innistrad/RTR standard but between enemy fastlands and ally cycle and checklands, not to mention Aether Hub, three color midrange is looking strong again. Of course I'm still pretty sure this standard will be one defined by the answers but that still makes me think the threats have to be worthy of them. And of course, it's a new standard. I'll always brew Jund.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
I'm really liking everything in the deck accept for Ruin Raider. You really don't want this card in a Jund build, let alone ANY midrange build. Why? Because you'll end up killing yourself long before your opponent does. Raiders ability is not a "may clause," meaning you must draw a card whenever Raid is triggered. Now say you draw a Ripjaw Raptor one turn, and the next draw a Glorybringer off of Raider. That's 9 damage you've dealt to yourself without your opponent having not done anything to you at all. And Jund typically doesn't run lifegain... Raider belongs in aggro/weenie deck that draws 1-3 drop creatures that deal little damage to you each time you draw off of it. I'd ditch -3 Ruin Raider and add +2 Drover of the Mighty and maybe another Cut // Ribbons or Ammit Eternal MB.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
So I scrapped that idea and am now thinking about running a straight up Jund mid-range deck. Use discard and removal to control and stabilize the board. Use resilient threats to gain card advantage and close out the game. Haven't had a chance to playtest any of it yet.
4x Gifted Aetherborn
3x Ripjaw Raptor
3x Glorybringer
2x Rhonas the Indomitable
2x Carnage Tyrant
Planeswalkers 2
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Lightning Strike
3x Abrade
3x Fatal Push
Sorcery
3x Duress
2x Cut // Ribbons
2x Doomfall
2x Sweltering Suns
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Canyon Slough
4x Mountain
3x Forest
2x Swamp
No sideboard yet, as we have no idea how the meta will shape up.
A bit on some of the card choices:
Gifted Aetherborn - A great stall against Ramunap Red and just a great card overall. Having deathtouch really makes someone think twice before attacking into it.
Carnage Tyrant - Originally this was Verdurous Gearhulk, but I have always had a little trouble with control and a resolved Carnage Tyrant seems like a really big headache for them.
Cards I am considering:
Raptor Hatchling - A 1/1 for RR doesn't seem great, but the thought of wiping the board and being left with a 3/3 trample sounds great. Furthermore I think it'll help smooth out the mana for my curve
Ranging Raptors - Currently I only have 2 3-drops in Rhonas the Indomitable and I don't love it. So the thought of putting in another creature into that slot sounds nice. Also should I wipe the board with Sweltering Suns, I essentially ramp myself.
Then again if I drop Gifted Aetherborn Im only really keeping black for some removal, so is it worth it? Also If I end up with those other cards, might as well go Dino Power at that point.
What are everyone's thoughts?
This is really close to what I wanted to run. I like black for vraska's contempt and vraska as well, so if you drop gifted aetherborn, you still have a good reason to be in black. I think I like lay bare the heart better than duress, mostly because you only have 6 turn 1 untapped black sources.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11439737#post11439737
Reality is only what man allows it to be. Few shape it so that many may accept it.
So I have updated this a bit since the last post.
In regards to Vraska's Contempt and Vraska, Relic Seeker, I like them, just not sure they fit in this deck. Vraska is asking a lot out of a 6cmc planeswalker. She feels more like a build around card to me. Contempt is nice, but expensive. Most of the time I think Walk the Plank is a better option. The exile is nice, but with Zombies rotating out, recursion doesn't seem like its THAT big of a concept.
Here is my current deck list:
3x Gifted Aetherborn
3x Kitesail Freebooter
3x Ranging Raptors
3x Ripjaw Raptor
3x Glorybringer
2x Rhonas the Indomitable
Planewalkers 2
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Lightning Strike
2x Fatal Push
2x Abrade
2x Fiery Cannonade
Sorcery 6
4x Commune with Dinosaurs
2x Duress
Enchantment 3
3x Shaper's Sanctuary
4x Blooming Marsh
3x Dragonskull Summit
3x Rootbound Crag
2x Canyon Slough
2x Sheltered Thicket
3x Mountain
3x Forest
2x Swamp
Sideboard is still in progress, as we don't know much of the meta. However it will most likely be tailored to Ramunap Red and Temur Energy.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11439737#post11439737
Reality is only what man allows it to be. Few shape it so that many may accept it.
I don't disagree with you. Just wish I had someplace to put it. Also wish I could fit cut // ribbons back in, but had to drop it for other things.
Jund has so many good cards.
Maybe I'll try and fit contempt into my SB.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11439737#post11439737
Reality is only what man allows it to be. Few shape it so that many may accept it.
2 Channeler Initiate
3 Ammit Eternal
1 Rhonas, the Indomitable
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Glorybringer
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Vraska, Relic Seeker
4 Fatal Push
4 Abrade
2 Vraska's Contempt
2 Aether Hub
2 Blooming Marsh
1 Canyon Slough
3 Dragonskull Summit
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Sheltered Thicket
5 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Mountain
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
Interesting take.
A few things:
1. Why no Lightning Bolt?
2. How has Ammit Eternal been? Our 3-drop slot is a little bare so he is a good choice, however I feel he belongs in a more Jund or MonoBlack Aggro build. The games I have been testing go to round 17+, so I feel as though by that time his -1/-1 counters will get the best of him. With no way to remove them, I wonder if he is a liability.
3. Why Vraska, as opposed to something like Carnage Tyrant. I like Vraska, just at 6cmc I expect a lot and I dont feel like she synergizes awesome with the deck. Yes her abilities are great and I want to play her, I just feel like she hasn't found the right home yet.
4. With that much "ramp" I don't think you need all those lands. In my current build I am running 4x Attune and 4x Servant of the Conduit with 22 lands and it hasn't been an issue.
This is the new decklist I am running:
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Ripjaw Raptor
3x Deathgorge Scavenger
3x Glorybringer
2x Rhonas the Indomitable
2x Carnage Tyrant
Planeswalkers 2
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Instants 12
4x Fatal Push
3x Lightning Strike
3x Harnessed Lightning
2x Vraska's Contempt
4x Attune with Aether
2x Walk the Plank
Lands 22
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Sheltered Thicket
3x Dragonskull Summit
3x Rootbound Crag
4x Forest
3x Swamp
1x Mountain
2x Dissenter's Deliverance
2x Lost Legacy
2x Dreamstealer
2x Doomfall
2x Duress
1x Hour of Devastation
1x Sentinel Totem
3x Sweltering Suns
It has been testing very well. About a 60% winrate vs Ramunap Red and about 75% vs Temur. The mana is way more constant and curves out very nicely. It also has MD answers to Hazoret, Scarab God, and Tyrant.
Edit: I'm testing 2x Abrade and 1x Walk the Plank instead of 3x Harnessed Lightning with almost the same list as Aboimila
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!