Amonkhet has a number of interesting cards featuring counters:
Pair these with cards that cheat counters:
Now consider also all the cards that donate -1/-1 counters and these cards can give out more. Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons. And that Planewalkers also traffick in loyalty counters. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar.
Now can we make this a coherent strategy? It seems like something cool can be built, but you obviously can't use all these at once, and we need something powerful to go with all the mana saving opportunities from the first set of cards. Ideas?
I've been wracking my brain on it and I have to say, it doesn't look good for serious constructed. Here's the issue:
As Foretold (clearly the best of these cards) is insanely strong and once you get it to 4 counters should let you cast a ton of spells. The issue is that a deck with it wants:
- Some way to speed up its counter acceleration, like the Plunderer.
- Plenty of instants and flash creatures to take advantage of "once per turn"
- Strong card draw to not just go into topdeck mode and lose the advantage of the enchantment.
Cramming a deck with all of that and having any sort of consistency or room for other durdly enchantments and artifacts like Drake Haven, Dynavolt Tower, or Oracle's Vault is an extremely complex puzzle. Possibly unsolveable. And if it is, I think that deck then fails the "is this rube golberg machine better than just running CopyCat" test.
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Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I made a thread a week or so ago utilizing all of the core cards you list here, but going in more of a Temur direction: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-new-card-discussion/773318-temur-pirate-looters-or-temur-vault-looting The deck was too durdlely at the time (and still may be) but I now believe it is possible to go the Sultai route as well. The problem is Oracle's Vault. What it wants to do is play big fatties/cast high cmc mythic spells that can outright win the game, but getting those counters on can be a pain. I think we should consider going the ramp route as an alternative, removing Vault entirely:
Not too concerned with the mana base just yet. I know it's doable. Also, don't know what the sideboard should look like as well. Honestly, I foresee the deck as being a toolbox deck, and the sideboard will reflect this once the full AKH spoiler is up. My goal was to get the deck down. Since I don't know what other ramp will be available to us, I have Oath of Nissa as a placeholder right now. The deck doesn't focus on binning cards, so I don't think delirium is where we want to be. The B splash is for Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons so we can keep putting -1/-1 counters on Channeler Initiate for mana of any color. Also, we have Liliana, Death's Majesty. Many people have been talking about pairing her with Nissa, Steward of Elements, and I agree with this idea. Nissa ensures we can scry deep, then bin big creature cards like Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger that we can't possibly cast until much, MUCH later in the game straight up. I think what my build benefits from the most is all the straight up scrying plus straight up card draw.
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Now consider also all the cards that donate -1/-1 counters and these cards can give out more. Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons. And that Planewalkers also traffick in loyalty counters. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar.
Now can we make this a coherent strategy? It seems like something cool can be built, but you obviously can't use all these at once, and we need something powerful to go with all the mana saving opportunities from the first set of cards. Ideas?
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
As Foretold (clearly the best of these cards) is insanely strong and once you get it to 4 counters should let you cast a ton of spells. The issue is that a deck with it wants:
- Some way to speed up its counter acceleration, like the Plunderer.
- Plenty of instants and flash creatures to take advantage of "once per turn"
- Strong card draw to not just go into topdeck mode and lose the advantage of the enchantment.
Cramming a deck with all of that and having any sort of consistency or room for other durdly enchantments and artifacts like Drake Haven, Dynavolt Tower, or Oracle's Vault is an extremely complex puzzle. Possibly unsolveable. And if it is, I think that deck then fails the "is this rube golberg machine better than just running CopyCat" test.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Hissing Quagmire
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Island
CREATURES 20
4 Channeler Initiate
4 Maulfist Revolutionary
2 Vizier of the Menagerie
4 Skyship Plunderer
4 Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Nissa, Steward of Elements
2 Liliana, Death's Majesty
ENCHANTMENTS 8
4 Oath of Nissa
2 As Foretold
2 Bounty of the Luxa
ARTIFACTS 4
2 Animation Module
2 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
4 Manglehorn
1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
Not too concerned with the mana base just yet. I know it's doable. Also, don't know what the sideboard should look like as well. Honestly, I foresee the deck as being a toolbox deck, and the sideboard will reflect this once the full AKH spoiler is up. My goal was to get the deck down. Since I don't know what other ramp will be available to us, I have Oath of Nissa as a placeholder right now. The deck doesn't focus on binning cards, so I don't think delirium is where we want to be. The B splash is for Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons so we can keep putting -1/-1 counters on Channeler Initiate for mana of any color. Also, we have Liliana, Death's Majesty. Many people have been talking about pairing her with Nissa, Steward of Elements, and I agree with this idea. Nissa ensures we can scry deep, then bin big creature cards like Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger that we can't possibly cast until much, MUCH later in the game straight up. I think what my build benefits from the most is all the straight up scrying plus straight up card draw.