Amonkhet is coming with some fresh beats for green. A 4/4 for 2 so long as you sac (or neuter) another creature, or a 1/1 for 2 that gains a life and gets a permanent +1/+1 when swinging. A 2 mana BoP that slowly looses its ramp to become a decent beater. And a 4/3 hasty croc that can also be a 5/4 hasty croc which is basically Hazoret the Fervent stats sacrificing indestructibility for "I can always attack and block". These all seem constructed playable and have some clever synergy together and by themselves.
Exemplar of Strength is probably the worst when behind but ahead or early game when you're still building it seems like it could be powerful enough not to care. It can also reset your Channeler Initiate if you want the birds ability more than a 3/4. Probably won't come but often but hey.
Speaking of Channeler it's similar to Servant of the Conduit in that it's a temporary ramp creature with decent stats but in exchange for not always being a 2/2 or better, it's an 0/1 that can potentially be a 2/3 or 3/4 by turn 4 or 5. You can also play it turn 2 to curve into the Croc to swing for 5 on turn 3 and get back your -1/-1 counter.
It's a bit early to start brewing without knowing even half of the set but we already have some synergy inside the spoilers we have and outside. GW Stompy gives us Thraben Inspector (and I guess Sacred Cat too) as a 1 drop that we don't mind dumping -1/-1 counters on to get Exemplar online. Embalm creatures in general also probably work well in this beater style brew. They're resilient creatures with value when you need to sac something. GB is a little more Jankey but Scrapheap Scrounger seems like a good target for -1/-1 counters, and Catacomb Sifter has a token we don't care losing and even rewards for killing off our weak creatures to make strong new ones. And hey there's always Nest of Scarabs (but I think there are better places to look). GR has a little less synergy but it's got some good hasty beaters like Lathnu Hellion as a second 4 power haste creature and I can't help but dream of pulling Kari Zev's Expertise out of the sideboard against Mardu Vehicles to steal a creature and play one of our 2 drops out as a 3/4 or a 4/4 for free and kill the dude we stole.
I think I still like GW right now as Thraben Inspector is the best 1 drop to play. I hope we see other 1 mana embalm creatures but I suppose the Sacred Cat or even Blisterpod work in a pinch. I don't have a decklist to start off yet but I'll be looking out through the rest of spoiler season for anything else that might help. Let me know your thoughts or any cards currently in standard that I might have forgotten work with the synergy we're building. GREEN BEATS!
Unfortunately, I have not been able to make Naya mana work well for an aggressive deck, so adding Kari Zev's Expertise seems hard. Likewise, throwing the -1/-1 counters on a Hanweir Garrison token seems farfetched.
I probably also don't need the Gideons and could use actual removal options but I like the go wide with human synergies that remove -1/-1 counters or give small tokens to burn through. Like Channeler Initiate turn 2 into Metallic Mimic (naming humans), Exemplar of Strength sounds plenty juicy to me. A 2/2 that becomes a 3/3 that gains you a life when you swing is pretty good.
Also, Question, Aethergeode Miner. Could we target the Miner to get the Exemplar or Channelers counters and then blink him in response? Would that dump the counters nowhere?
Looks good! I think the Miner can be blinked in response, but the energy needs to be around from a previous attack or another source. I wonder if we can have too many Gideons. Does Nissa Voice or Champion make sense?
I honestly think the Crocodile works because haste catches people off guard in a GW humans matchup. Avacyn is always good to have and can be bluffed when you have a Duskwatch (people might think you are leaving up avacyn but you can have nothing). Thraben just gets to eat counters if needed. I imagine a world of T1 Thraben, T2 Exemplar, T3 (Nissa/Snare) - or T2 Initiate into T3 Crocodile ... the beats can be quick but we have answers to anything with Cast Out and Snare along side staying power with haste and flying beaters.
I honestly think the Crocodile works because haste catches people off guard in a GW humans matchup. Avacyn is always good to have and can be bluffed when you have a Duskwatch (people might think you are leaving up avacyn but you can have nothing). Thraben just gets to eat counters if needed. I imagine a world of T1 Thraben, T2 Exemplar, T3 (Nissa/Snare) - or T2 Initiate into T3 Crocodile ... the beats can be quick but we have answers to anything with Cast Out and Snare along side staying power with haste and flying beaters.
I can dig it. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar seems like a natural fit. And I know the Miner needs other energy sources but she enters with 2 energy so you at least get once use. Not much synergy with the rest of the deck though.
Edit: I might replace Cast Out with Declaration in Stone though, more permanent removal and the cycling on cast out is negligible because it's your removal spell so you'll rarely want to cycle it. It does hit permanents though so who knows, maybe it is a better include.
These could go pretty good with a card like [[Hidden Stockpile]]. You get a 3/4, kill a servo, and end of turn you get another servo. So now if you want to marry Revolt, the [[Greenbelt Rampager]] and [[Aethergeode Miner]] fit a stompy theme and a revolt theme, and you could also try [[Renegade Rallier]] to reanimate something that died to excessive -1/-1 counters. It does all seem like too many themes to actually work, but maybe there's something to it.
Private Mod Note
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My thoughts are we can jump from 2 to 4 with the 8 mana dorks. With that dropping T3 TKS & Vizier could be game altering. Constant 6/6 tramples seem solid finisher with 3 Hydras. We can dump extra mana into Nissa & Rhonas. We get card draw with Bounty, Expertise, & Rogue. The ramp from Bounty can lead to some silly sized Nissa...if we go T2 dork, T3 Bounty - we can have an absurd sized Nissa turn 5 - possible to have 9 mana at that point - Nissa X=7 ...cast anything in our deck with that.
The start of my deck. People forget that Kessig Prowler is a Card and late game can be flipped to a 4/4. Adds good aggression to the deck and gives another target for -1/-1 counters. I have won many a game off the back of prowler.
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"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
It's interesting that Rhonas with another God on the field (ok, well not Oketra) is always online because unlike the Theros gods, they never lose their creature type.
The start of my deck. People forget that Kessig Prowler is a Card and late game can be flipped to a 4/4. Adds good aggression to the deck and gives another target for -1/-1 counters. I have won many a game off the back of prowler.
Kessig Prowler gets sniped by Walking Ballista.
Unless Ballista disappears, I want nothing to do with an x/1.
The start of my deck. People forget that Kessig Prowler is a Card and late game can be flipped to a 4/4. Adds good aggression to the deck and gives another target for -1/-1 counters. I have won many a game off the back of prowler.
Kessig Prowler gets sniped by Walking Ballista.
Unless Ballista disappears, I want nothing to do with an x/1.
One card that can deal with a 2 power 1 drop in green that has late game value is not a valid reason to not play a card. The value you yourself can get by putting -1/-1 counters on it plus the pace of damage the creature could potentially dish out outweigh the possibility of it getting sniped by Ballista.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
The start of my deck. People forget that Kessig Prowler is a Card and late game can be flipped to a 4/4. Adds good aggression to the deck and gives another target for -1/-1 counters. I have won many a game off the back of prowler.
Kessig Prowler gets sniped by Walking Ballista.
Unless Ballista disappears, I want nothing to do with an x/1.
One card that can deal with a 2 power 1 drop in green that has late game value is not a valid reason to not play a card. The value you yourself can get by putting -1/-1 counters on it plus the pace of damage the creature could potentially dish out outweigh the possibility of it getting sniped by Ballista.
Yes except that 2 drops that just outpower it - Constrictor, Advocate, Lambholt - it's not in a good place. The humans 2 power 1 drops do well because they get Thalia and Always Watching.
A new red one drop makes a new case for red in our stompy deck. Bloodlust Inciter is a one drop that can curve into one of our under costed Green two drops. A turn one Inciter lets you play a turn two Exemplar or Initiate and in response to the trigger putting the -1/-1 counters on the Inciter, you give the two drop haste swinging for 3 or 4. It's a bad topdeck draw so maybe the floor is too low for the ceiling. But if you're playing red anyway the Bloodrage Brawler is pretty stompy, and turns on Rhonas who would be a great turn three after turn 1 Inciter and Turn 2 Brawler for 9 damage on turn 3.
I'm bad at making sideboards but figured I'd shoot for what's scary right now. I'm toying with Green/Red too but Green/White has too much synergy and some of the best board hate available too. Two one drops that are easy to dump, say, three -1/-1 counters on and not care. In Blisterpod's case it's another way of getting out a turn 3 croc. The sketchiest part of this deck are the two singletons but the Bestiary seems like a way to ensure we draw into gas and the Intervention has plenty of targets that seem fine in game one. CatCombo is everywhere, Torrential Gearhulk is one of the only WinCons in control and enchantments are hard for them to deal with if you can catch them tapped out early, and Marvel holds onto their Marvels until they can use it the same turn and you can always guess Ulamog otherwise. Vehicles is probably the worst matchup to draw the intervention but Heart of Kiran and Unlicensed Disintegration seem like fine things to name. I'd feel real good about the inclusion if it had cycling but what can you do. Not going to talk about much in the board but I will say I fear the Authority could be bad if Throne of the God-Pharaoh becomes common in CatCombo.
Option two is the Path of Gruul. I'm a little sad I couldn't find room for Khenra Charioteer in the maindeck or Kari Zev's Expertise in the board for my janky "combo" but there's a lot of cheep beef in this version. The Brawler doesn't have much synergy in the deck besides the Hydra but it's still a 2 mana 4/3 so it beats face and turns on Rhonas. The Board is even sketchier but you can mostly ignore it. I'm not sure either version will be able to dethrone Vehicles or CopyCat but I like my green beats so I might still sleeve up some version of these for game day. That or Cat Tribal for the lolz. But that's a different thread.
I have to say, I'm really intrigued by going all in on the counters here. There're some cheap beaters in black that give counters too, plus Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons and Nest of Scarabs mean that after your first creature, the rest will often have a dinky token to drop theirs on, which in turn makes more tokens. And then if you're feeling frisky, you can go Jund for Soul-Scar Mage which turns Sweltering Suns into a wipe for your opponent and a giant pile of tokens for you.
Edit: After a re-read, the Soul-Scar Mage + Sweltering Suns combo is not nearly as optimal as I initially thought. Red seems way less worth splashing now.
Well Dinomiah, you got me wondering what that would look like. And I think it'd be pretty fun, but it's been awhile since I've played Standard. In any event, here's my rough draft:
Amonkhet is coming with some fresh beats for green. A 4/4 for 2 so long as you sac (or neuter) another creature, or a 1/1 for 2 that gains a life and gets a permanent +1/+1 when swinging. A 2 mana BoP that slowly looses its ramp to become a decent beater. And a 4/3 hasty croc that can also be a 5/4 hasty croc which is basically Hazoret the Fervent stats sacrificing indestructibility for "I can always attack and block". These all seem constructed playable and have some clever synergy together and by themselves.
Exemplar of Strength is probably the worst when behind but ahead or early game when you're still building it seems like it could be powerful enough not to care. It can also reset your Channeler Initiate if you want the birds ability more than a 3/4. Probably won't come but often but hey.
Speaking of Channeler it's similar to Servant of the Conduit in that it's a temporary ramp creature with decent stats but in exchange for not always being a 2/2 or better, it's an 0/1 that can potentially be a 2/3 or 3/4 by turn 4 or 5. You can also play it turn 2 to curve into the Croc to swing for 5 on turn 3 and get back your -1/-1 counter.
It's a bit early to start brewing without knowing even half of the set but we already have some synergy inside the spoilers we have and outside. GW Stompy gives us Thraben Inspector (and I guess Sacred Cat too) as a 1 drop that we don't mind dumping -1/-1 counters on to get Exemplar online. Embalm creatures in general also probably work well in this beater style brew. They're resilient creatures with value when you need to sac something. GB is a little more Jankey but Scrapheap Scrounger seems like a good target for -1/-1 counters, and Catacomb Sifter has a token we don't care losing and even rewards for killing off our weak creatures to make strong new ones. And hey there's always Nest of Scarabs (but I think there are better places to look). GR has a little less synergy but it's got some good hasty beaters like Lathnu Hellion as a second 4 power haste creature and I can't help but dream of pulling Kari Zev's Expertise out of the sideboard against Mardu Vehicles to steal a creature and play one of our 2 drops out as a 3/4 or a 4/4 for free and kill the dude we stole.
I think I still like GW right now as Thraben Inspector is the best 1 drop to play. I hope we see other 1 mana embalm creatures but I suppose the Sacred Cat or even Blisterpod work in a pinch. I don't have a decklist to start off yet but I'll be looking out through the rest of spoiler season for anything else that might help. Let me know your thoughts or any cards currently in standard that I might have forgotten work with the synergy we're building. GREEN BEATS!
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
Unfortunately, I have not been able to make Naya mana work well for an aggressive deck, so adding Kari Zev's Expertise seems hard. Likewise, throwing the -1/-1 counters on a Hanweir Garrison token seems farfetched.
Ulvenwald Mysteries is probably too janky, but Sram's Expertise, Oketra's Monument and Oath of Gideon seem interesting in this context. Throwing a bunch of -1/-1 counters on a random token seems aight, as the OP points out.
PS: really curious about Rhonas and Oketra, obviously.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Exemplar of Strength
4 Channeler Initiate
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Metallic Mimic
SPELLS
1 Oath of Ajani
3 Oath of Gideon
4 Sram's Expertise
2 Gideon of the Trials
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
LANDS
3 Scattered Groves
4 Forest Canopy
3 Fortified Village
8 Plains
6 Forest
4 Authority of the Consuls
11 other
Also, Question, Aethergeode Miner. Could we target the Miner to get the Exemplar or Channelers counters and then blink him in response? Would that dump the counters nowhere?
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
4 Metallic Mimic
4 Exemplar of Strength
4 Channeler Initiate
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Crocodile of the Crossing
2 Archangel Avacyn
2 Cast Out
3 Nissa, Voice of Zenidkar
4 Canopy Vista
4 Fortified Village
3 Scattered Groves
7 Plains
6 Forest
I honestly think the Crocodile works because haste catches people off guard in a GW humans matchup. Avacyn is always good to have and can be bluffed when you have a Duskwatch (people might think you are leaving up avacyn but you can have nothing). Thraben just gets to eat counters if needed. I imagine a world of T1 Thraben, T2 Exemplar, T3 (Nissa/Snare) - or T2 Initiate into T3 Crocodile ... the beats can be quick but we have answers to anything with Cast Out and Snare along side staying power with haste and flying beaters.
Edit: I might replace Cast Out with Declaration in Stone though, more permanent removal and the cycling on cast out is negligible because it's your removal spell so you'll rarely want to cycle it. It does hit permanents though so who knows, maybe it is a better include.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
edit- just saw the con-combat clause on Soul-Scar Mage. Makes it a little hard in stompy aggro.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
4 Channeler Initiate
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
3 Rogue Refiner
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Vizier of the Menagerie
3 Honored Hydra
1 Rishkar's Expertise
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
4 Bounty of the Luxa
3 Nissa, Steward of Elements
4 Aether Hub
4 Botanica Sanctum
3 Lumbering Falls
1 Blighted Cataract
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
2 Westvale Abbey
6 Forest
2 Island
My thoughts are we can jump from 2 to 4 with the 8 mana dorks. With that dropping T3 TKS & Vizier could be game altering. Constant 6/6 tramples seem solid finisher with 3 Hydras. We can dump extra mana into Nissa & Rhonas. We get card draw with Bounty, Expertise, & Rogue. The ramp from Bounty can lead to some silly sized Nissa...if we go T2 dork, T3 Bounty - we can have an absurd sized Nissa turn 5 - possible to have 9 mana at that point - Nissa X=7 ...cast anything in our deck with that.
4x Longtusk Cub
4x Lambholt Pacifist
3x Heart of Kiran
2x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
2x Tireless Tracker
4x Rhonas the Indomitable
4x Bristling Hydra
4x Blossoming Defense
4x Prey Upon
21x Forest
4 Kessig Prowler
4 Exemplar of Strength
4 Channeler Initiate
4 Prowling Serpopard
4 Crocodile of the Crossing
4 Verdurous Gearhulk
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
3 Blossoming Defense
23 Forest
The start of my deck. People forget that Kessig Prowler is a Card and late game can be flipped to a 4/4. Adds good aggression to the deck and gives another target for -1/-1 counters. I have won many a game off the back of prowler.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
Kessig Prowler gets sniped by Walking Ballista.
Unless Ballista disappears, I want nothing to do with an x/1.
One card that can deal with a 2 power 1 drop in green that has late game value is not a valid reason to not play a card. The value you yourself can get by putting -1/-1 counters on it plus the pace of damage the creature could potentially dish out outweigh the possibility of it getting sniped by Ballista.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yes except that 2 drops that just outpower it - Constrictor, Advocate, Lambholt - it's not in a good place. The humans 2 power 1 drops do well because they get Thalia and Always Watching.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
4 Blisterpod
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Channeler Initiate
4 Exemplar of Strength
4 Servant of the Conduit
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
4 Crocodile of the Crossing
2 Verdurous Gearhulk
NON-CREATURE SPELLS (9)
4 Blossoming Defense
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Gideon's Intervention
4 Scattered Groves
4 Canopy Vista
4 Fortified Village
3 Aether Hub
5 Forest
3 Plains
4 Natural Obsolescence
4 Aven Mindsensor
3 Authority of the Consuls
3 Stasis Snare
1 Gideons Intervention
4 Blisterpod
4 Channeler Initiate
4 Exemplar of Strength
4 Bloodrage Brawler
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
4 Crocodile of the Crossing
4 Honored Hydra
2 Verdurous Gearhulk
3 Blossoming Defense
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
3 Shock
LANDS (23)
4 Sheltered Thicket
4 Cinder Glade
4 Game Trail
3 Aether Hub
5 Forest
3 Mountain
4 Natural Obsolescence
4 Glorybringer
3 Magma Spray
3 By Force
1 Shock
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
Edit: After a re-read, the Soul-Scar Mage + Sweltering Suns combo is not nearly as optimal as I initially thought. Red seems way less worth splashing now.
R.I.P. Wash
Don't click this. I mean it. No, seriously. I said not to click it. The world might blow up. Even if you just think about it. BOOM. See? The whole world could've just blown up and it would've been all your fault. Just don't click this.
4 Blisterpod
4 Channeler Initiate
4 Exemplar of Strength
4 Catacomb Sifter
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
4 Crocodile of the Crossing
4 Plague Belcher
2 Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons
1 Bontu the Glorified
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
Other Spells
3 Nest of Scarabs
3 Blossoming Defense
Land 22
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Foul Orchard
4 Hissing Quagmire
7 Forest
3 Swamp
Bone Picker could be another option creature wise. Would it be worth it to try and fit in some Fatal Push?
Also, someone much smarter than me could make the mana better probably. So many tapped lands. How could we fix it?
Would love to get some ideas of BG stompy going.