BUG Control is one of the premier Theros Block Constructed decks and is appearing to be the premier Control deck for Standard in October. With KTK bringing support to the wedge with the Sultai, let's discuss some of the new goodies out of KTK and see where it takes us.
Well you lose Putrefy, Abrupt Decay and Golgari Charm, as well as the Elixir and Jace, Architect of Thought but I really don't think any of that hurts you too badly. New Jace doesn't replace old Jace but I think new jace isn't as bad as people originally thought. You could bump him up to a 2 of easily. Abrupt Decay was pretty unique but even though it doesn't completely replace it, the Sultai Charm is a nice new addition in the instant department. 3 mana over 2 but a good amount of utility although it's hard to tell how many monocolored creatures we'll see. Though I can't see Stormbreath Dragon not being played so... that.
Besides that I think we're going to have to wait and see what we get. But you have a 3 color tapland to look forward to, plus Polluted Delta. There is certainly value to look forward to.
Sultai Charm is really helpful, better mana is helpful, and losing abrupt decay hurts.
It's too early to say what the format will look like, but any time a previous block deck is set up to get support in the new set you can expect there to be plenty of potential. Just remember that three color decks will be bringing a lot more potential power to the table than most of the previous year's standard decks were.
Charm is okay. I am not sure I would say it is NUTS right now. I think a lot of that depends on how many multi-color creatures we end up seeing that are playable. I like that it is lining up with Hero's Downfall at 3 mana and Jace's Ingenuity at 5 mana with AEtherspouts giving you something to do on these turns in the event you value cards over removal.
Polluted Delta seems rather good. Being able to run more basics makes Nissa's Ult more appealing for some people I am sure. On the other hand, your basic land slots are now being consumed by Islands and Swamps.
The tri-lands seem questionable to me. I would rather max out on Scry lands first and let pain lands do the rest of the fixing and Delta combining with basics before I think about adding tri-lands. Pain lands might hurt a bit, but they are faster and speed is still important even if the aggro decks slow down. The fewer instances where my 3rd land needs to come into play tapped, the better.
1. Some of the removal spells are crappy, mainly because a lot of the good ones are being phased out. I'm predicting I will probably remove the Pharika's Cures or the Bile Blights for the newly-spoiled Sultai Charm. Waiting to see what else is spoiled.
2. I'm almost certainly going to replace some Islands and Swamps with Polluted Deltas.
3. On the subject of lands, I have a lot of basic lands. The Scrylands are obviously good, and Scry helps the deck a ton; but, trying to run too many always winds up going poorly for me. I settled on six.
4. I run pretty low Aetherspouts. I have actually kept up with the BUG Control thread in the Competitive forum, and I know that the consensus is that Aetherspouts is extremely powerful (and I agree). But ultimately, I like having some copies of Perilous Vault in the main board. Partly because of the impact it can have on what an opponent might do when it's put into play, and partly because I think the interaction (or non-interaction, I guess) with Nissa +1 ability and Vault is a very decisive way to close out a game. Also, once you play Aetherspouts, people worry about it being surprised by it from then on. Just having your opponent believe you have an Aetherspouts in your hand can be as good as actually having it.
5. My sideboard almost certainly needs some work. A large part of it is that, when building these wonky post-rotation decks, the only feedback you will get is from playing decks that aren't post-rotation. Thus, some things ultimately might not be as useful in the future (Mistcutter Hydra comes to mind as something that will probably be less relevant once Blue Devo phases out). Hornet Nest is also pretty funny, but I've recently began to wonder if it's all that necessary; the deck already seems to do very well against aggro decks without it, so Hornet Nest might be overkill (and having it competing for the 3-mana slot with Dissolve and Hero's Downfall isn't doing it any favors, either). I have Garruk in the sideboard as well, because even though he is amazing when he works out, it's very frustrating to get him in my opening hand...especially in a deck where I need to have some meaningful early plays to survive. I keep it mainly to board in against walker decks.
6. ...I'm not running Jace. At least, not right now. In a twist of fate, the Sultai mechanic is of course Delve, so perhaps I will put Jace back in my deck in some form in the future. Right now, however, I've been boned too many times by losing a card I needed from Jace's +1. Perhaps I just suck at using TLGPJace.
I've been following the list in Established pretty closely as well, and have all the cards that are surviving rotation at the ready. I do think that the spots we are losing (Ultimate Price/Putrefy, Abrupt Decay, Golgari Charm) can be filled with Sultai Charm and maybe a couple maindecked Drown in Sorrow. The charm will actually be easier to hit turn 3 a lot of the time than will Hero's Downfall, in my own experience. Drown in Sorrow conveniently poops on Morph 2/2s and is a frequent board-in vs. a wide variety of creature-based decks.
In longer games, a well-defended Jace, The Living Guildpact has helped me do a lot of good filtering, often pitching irrelevant lands to the bottom of the deck (usually if I keep a land on top, it's the Darksteel Citadel that Nissa's been waiting for). I often find myself wondering what to do with the growing pile of graveyard cards, and was actually thinking "Man, Delve would be sweet here" when I saw the spoiler shortly after. It's a good mechanic, and the best part about the mechanic is that it isn't really a build-around-me unless you want it to be. We'll be pitching fetches, losing counterspells and other instants and sorceries after casting them, and if they just print one nice bomby finisher with Delve, maybe a Tombstalker-esque Demon/Vamp with pro-red, pro-white, and flying or some other cute Sultai fixing, and I'll gladly finish the game with a couple copies in the deck. As it stands, the best creature available at rotation is Prognostic Sphinx, which is a little underwhelming.
Either way, I'm hopeful. We have some of the best walkers, a nice suite of removal even without Decay, and my favorite mechanic of the new ones.
Yeah, Sagu Mauler is definitely going to be the finisher of choice along with Nissa and sometimes Kiora. Looking forward to hopefully getting some good removal spells, since it's looking like there's crap to go around so far.
I am not really a fan of Mauler. I would use Prognostic Sphinx before I use the Mauler. Sphinx is cheap, has a better form of evasion and has a relevant ability when it attacks and you get psuedo hexproof to boot that can also fuel Delve if there are any good Delve cards. I am sure we will see more goodies for BUG, we have not seen much at all. Honestly though, what I am more interested in above anything is spot removal.
Clever Impersonator is a pretty sweet card. Having the ability to match other walker drops is pretty big and being able to act as trading value against the creature it copies seems decent as well.
Perhaps what I like best about this card is that it opens up creature based builds a lot more by simply existing and giving the deck reasonable access to Sidisi, Brood Tyrant. I am still skeptical as to whether or not a creature heavy build would really work in a control shell, but I am happy we are seeing some good options to play with in the event that the spot removal spells the deck needs are not printed.
Yah Sagu Mauler is the new Aetherling, methinks. Esp since Kiora is the new Jace AoT
I am not sure I would go that far. Mauler will be a pain to deal with but, a simple death touch creature can finish him off or a board-wipe, which there are 4 of at them moment in standard that will hit him (Elspeth, Duneblast, End Hostilities, and Extinguish All Hopes). I think he will be good and hard to deal with, but not a virtually impossible to deal with game ender that AEtherling was. I remember I had to use 3 spot removal cards in a row to kill one aetherling.
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Perhaps what I like best about this card is that it opens up creature based builds a lot more by simply existing and giving the deck reasonable access to Sidisi, Brood Tyrant. I am still skeptical as to whether or not a creature heavy build would really work in a control shell, but I am happy we are seeing some good options to play with in the event that the spot removal spells the deck needs are not printed.
Yah Sagu Mauler is the new Aetherling, methinks. Esp since Kiora is the new Jace AoT
I am not sure I would go that far. Mauler will be a pain to deal with but, a simple death touch creature can finish him off or a board-wipe, which there are 4 of at them moment in standard that will hit him (Elspeth, Duneblast, End Hostilities, and Extinguish All Hopes). I think he will be good and hard to deal with, but not a virtually impossible to deal with game ender that AEtherling was. I remember I had to use 3 spot removal cards in a row to kill one aetherling.
So if the answers to mauler is narrow and bad on their own this is what makes it bad?
Look at Geist of St. Traft during its standard. The ONLY reason this guy was good at all there were 2-3 cards in the entire format that could answer him.
Take any creature out there in the format. Then, look at all the removal that can kill. The creature with the least removal answers will rise to the top of the meta game.
Mauler is crazy good. Even if they have deathtouch. Mauler has trample. He will be hitting your opponent in the face. He isn't legendary we can pack 4 of them into a deck. The real question is this. Is he better than doom engine? I really don't know.
Yah Sagu Mauler is the new Aetherling, methinks. Esp since Kiora is the new Jace AoT
I am not sure I would go that far. Mauler will be a pain to deal with but, a simple death touch creature can finish him off or a board-wipe, which there are 4 of at them moment in standard that will hit him (Elspeth, Duneblast, End Hostilities, and Extinguish All Hopes). I think he will be good and hard to deal with, but not a virtually impossible to deal with game ender that AEtherling was. I remember I had to use 3 spot removal cards in a row to kill one aetherling.
So if the answers to mauler is narrow and bad on their own this is what makes it bad?
Look at Geist of St. Traft during its standard. The ONLY reason this guy was good at all there were 2-3 cards in the entire format that could answer him.
Take any creature out there in the format. Then, look at all the removal that can kill. The creature with the least removal answers will rise to the top of the meta game.
Mauler is crazy good. Even if they have deathtouch. Mauler has trample. He will be hitting your opponent in the face. He isn't legendary we can pack 4 of them into a deck. The real question is this. Is he better than doom engine? I really don't know.
How are those choices narrow? If they're constructed worthy, just having 2 of those cards would be enough for a control deck. Sagu Mauler is alright, but it doesn't have the evasiveness or utility of AEtherling. Then again, I don't think most people would put Sagu Mauler in a control shell as a finisher either. I'm not saying it's bad, but it ain't no AEtherling.
Sure, he is hard to remove with spells. But there are a lot of creatures that can be on chump duty while real threats are racing you. Mauler is not good at racing aggro decks that go wide or midrange decks that go up and over. AEtherling could race these things by being unblockable and pumping himself up. Those early game coursers make Mauler look silly compared to something like Prognostic Sphinx which is getting damage through and giving you a far more powerful ability tacked onto it than simple Hexproof and he can give himself Hexproof on a whim all the same.
Mauler just a dumb hex beater and that is it. Geist was good because you had ways to protect him from combat while also pushing through 4 damage that was highly evasive.
Not sure what you mean by "chump duty" as he has trample...
Either way, he is a 6/6, which is twice the power of Prog Sphinx. While Sphinx might not be blocked as easily, it is still possible to do so. I don't think that flying is strictly better than trample.
He also has Hexproof 100% of the time, while Sphinx can gain it if you pitch a card, but that also taps it. At PT Theros, you would see BUG trying to stabilize a decent amount of the time from a specific threat just to have them downfall/silence/b light/Kiora the sphinx and swing for lethal. This guy does not have those problems. He comes down, and stays there unless you wrath him away, or your opponent does (and if that is the case, he is not super in the mirror I would imagine initially).
I like Sphinx, but he also only deals 3 damage a swing and is easier to kill than Mauler, while being card DISADVANTAGE if we have to give him hexproof. Seeing as most control decks play seldom few creatures or permanents in general, typically there is always at least 1 removal spell waiting for him.
Plus this dude can technically be played on T3 against a hyper aggressive deck to trade if need be.
Aye, because there isn't any other way besides Mill to win the game. You have to do 20 damage somehow. Plus, he is not just a big dumb beater (hexproof).
I think I would rather streamline a creature finisher whenever possible, and in the case of Mauler, it is possible.
I'm not sure you played Alara/Zen standard, but Sphinx of Jwar Isle used to be a finisher in control decks because:
1) Evasion (and yes, trample is evasion)
2) Very difficult to answer (in this case Shroud, and Hexproof is strictly better upgrade)
Sagu Mauler is a very good control finisher because it ends games quickly and is very difficult to interact with. Plus, he can even be useful early in the game against aggressive decks, by just playing him out as a 2/2 that will either trade with a dude, or a spell in their hand. Something that most Control finishers are unable to do. You're also vastly overweighting the usefulness of Prognostic Sphinx. Sphinx is a bad finisher, and bad defender. (I guess you forgot that he has to tap himself to give himself hexproof?)
In colors without Elspeth, you're not going to find anything better (so far anyways).
Uh, Sphinx flew. Flying and hexproof is greater than Trample and Hexproof. Because it ends games quicker.
I played control from Shadowmoor-Alara to Zen-Scars. I am more than aware of why Sphinx was ran during it's time and also more than aware that it's inclution was primarily when Jund was over saturated or you were in colors that could not play Baneslayer Angel. Those were driving factors that led to the use of Sphinx at the time.
So, with Sultai Ascendancy spoiled, what do people think of running that in control as opposed to Jace TLGP?
Pros:
- Less Mana
- Much more control over your deck with SulAscendancy's modified Scry, compared to TLGP's "This-or-that" +1 ability
- Possibly better in creature-based decks attempting to run Sidisi as a finisher, or decks relying more heavily on Delve mechanics
- Harder to remove for creature-based decks (admittedly may not be relevant; with Wedge decks, it's pretty hard not to have access to enchantment hate)
Cons:
- Potentially slower to play than TLGP if you don't get the right mana early
- Losing access to Jace's other Planeswalker abilities, which are pretty useful in control (iirc, TLGP's ultimate is the only way to shuffle your GY into your library after rotation)
- One less permanent for your opponent to spend their Banishing Light/Hero's Downfall on instead of Kiora/Nissa
What do you guys think? Personally, I would choose Sultai Ascendancy over Jace; but, I am biased against Jace, so I'm interested in hearing the other side, as well.
No, I don't think that's the ideal BUG list. I think it's okay, but you'll need more finishing power than that (and more hexproof or threat generation) to break through the inevitable Jeskai control deck that will surface in the next few months.
EDIT: Your dredge idea got me thinking though. While I don't see the potential for a full on dredge/control hybrid thus far, I do like BUG dredge midrange as a deck. I posted a thread in this same section if you want to look GuildCaster.
No, I don't think that's the ideal BUG list. I think it's okay, but you'll need more finishing power than that (and more hexproof or threat generation) to break through the inevitable Jeskai control deck that will surface in the next few months.
EDIT: Your dredge idea got me thinking though. While I don't see the potential for a full on dredge/control hybrid thus far, I do like BUG dredge midrange as a deck. I posted a thread in this same section if you want to look GuildCaster.
Not sure you really want dissolve in here, you are playing a lot of sorcery speed cards, it's going to be hard to hold up 1uu, this is the reason why dissolve was only played in the board as a 1-of in the block decks. Courser seems like a better card. I've also never been a fan of kiora but I guess we need her for the card draw. I'd still just play 2 kiora, cut the dissolves, and play 4 courser. Courser is also a safer choice than those 2 because there will probably be a descent amount of agro decks immediately following rotation.
A card that always did heavy lifting in block was reaper of the wilds, You might want to try to fit in 1 or 2. He blocks just about everything like a champ, can get hexproof, and can trade with almost anything larger than it.
Since the deck can't really kill anything until turn 3, you need blockers like courser and reaper to stop large assaults and protect your walkers.
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4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Courser of Kruphix
Planeswalker
3 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
Distruption
2 Syncopate
3 Dissolve
Removal
2 Golgari Charm
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Hero's Downfall
1 Putrefy
4 AEtherspouts
2 Jace's Ingenuity
Land
4 Breeding Pool
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
2 Llanowar Waste
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Temple of Deceit
3 Temple of Mystery
4 Temple of Malady
2 Darksteel Citadel
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Doom Blade
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Thoughtseize
2 Perilous Vault
4 Sylvan Caryatid
Planeswalker
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, the Living Guildpact
3 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
Artifact
1 Elixir of Immortality
Disruption
3 Thoughtseize
3 Dissolve
Removal
2 Golgari Charm
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Putrefy
3 Hero's Downfall
4 AEtherspouts
2 Jace's Ingenuity
Land
4 Breeding Pool
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
2 Llanowar Waste
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Temple of Deceit
3 Temple of Mystery
4 Temple of Malady
2 Darksteel Citadel
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Jace, Memory Adept
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Golgari Charm
1 Notion Thief
2 Perilous Vault
Besides that I think we're going to have to wait and see what we get. But you have a 3 color tapland to look forward to, plus Polluted Delta. There is certainly value to look forward to.
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It's too early to say what the format will look like, but any time a previous block deck is set up to get support in the new set you can expect there to be plenty of potential. Just remember that three color decks will be bringing a lot more potential power to the table than most of the previous year's standard decks were.
Polluted Delta seems rather good. Being able to run more basics makes Nissa's Ult more appealing for some people I am sure. On the other hand, your basic land slots are now being consumed by Islands and Swamps.
The tri-lands seem questionable to me. I would rather max out on Scry lands first and let pain lands do the rest of the fixing and Delta combining with basics before I think about adding tri-lands. Pain lands might hurt a bit, but they are faster and speed is still important even if the aggro decks slow down. The fewer instances where my 3rd land needs to come into play tapped, the better.
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Temple of Mystery
2 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Deceit
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
5 Island
4 Forest
3 Swamp
Creatures
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
3 Nissa, Worldwaker
Instants
2 Aetherspouts
3 Bile Blight
4 Dissolve
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Jace's Ingenuity
3 Pharika's Cure
Sorceries
3 Thoughtseize
Artifacts
2 Perilous Vault
4 Hornet Nest
3 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Stain the Mind
Some notes and observations on my own iteration:
1. Some of the removal spells are crappy, mainly because a lot of the good ones are being phased out. I'm predicting I will probably remove the Pharika's Cures or the Bile Blights for the newly-spoiled Sultai Charm. Waiting to see what else is spoiled.
2. I'm almost certainly going to replace some Islands and Swamps with Polluted Deltas.
3. On the subject of lands, I have a lot of basic lands. The Scrylands are obviously good, and Scry helps the deck a ton; but, trying to run too many always winds up going poorly for me. I settled on six.
4. I run pretty low Aetherspouts. I have actually kept up with the BUG Control thread in the Competitive forum, and I know that the consensus is that Aetherspouts is extremely powerful (and I agree). But ultimately, I like having some copies of Perilous Vault in the main board. Partly because of the impact it can have on what an opponent might do when it's put into play, and partly because I think the interaction (or non-interaction, I guess) with Nissa +1 ability and Vault is a very decisive way to close out a game. Also, once you play Aetherspouts, people worry about it being surprised by it from then on. Just having your opponent believe you have an Aetherspouts in your hand can be as good as actually having it.
5. My sideboard almost certainly needs some work. A large part of it is that, when building these wonky post-rotation decks, the only feedback you will get is from playing decks that aren't post-rotation. Thus, some things ultimately might not be as useful in the future (Mistcutter Hydra comes to mind as something that will probably be less relevant once Blue Devo phases out). Hornet Nest is also pretty funny, but I've recently began to wonder if it's all that necessary; the deck already seems to do very well against aggro decks without it, so Hornet Nest might be overkill (and having it competing for the 3-mana slot with Dissolve and Hero's Downfall isn't doing it any favors, either). I have Garruk in the sideboard as well, because even though he is amazing when he works out, it's very frustrating to get him in my opening hand...especially in a deck where I need to have some meaningful early plays to survive. I keep it mainly to board in against walker decks.
6. ...I'm not running Jace. At least, not right now. In a twist of fate, the Sultai mechanic is of course Delve, so perhaps I will put Jace back in my deck in some form in the future. Right now, however, I've been boned too many times by losing a card I needed from Jace's +1. Perhaps I just suck at using TLGPJace.
In longer games, a well-defended Jace, The Living Guildpact has helped me do a lot of good filtering, often pitching irrelevant lands to the bottom of the deck (usually if I keep a land on top, it's the Darksteel Citadel that Nissa's been waiting for). I often find myself wondering what to do with the growing pile of graveyard cards, and was actually thinking "Man, Delve would be sweet here" when I saw the spoiler shortly after. It's a good mechanic, and the best part about the mechanic is that it isn't really a build-around-me unless you want it to be. We'll be pitching fetches, losing counterspells and other instants and sorceries after casting them, and if they just print one nice bomby finisher with Delve, maybe a Tombstalker-esque Demon/Vamp with pro-red, pro-white, and flying or some other cute Sultai fixing, and I'll gladly finish the game with a couple copies in the deck. As it stands, the best creature available at rotation is Prognostic Sphinx, which is a little underwhelming.
Either way, I'm hopeful. We have some of the best walkers, a nice suite of removal even without Decay, and my favorite mechanic of the new ones.
Perhaps what I like best about this card is that it opens up creature based builds a lot more by simply existing and giving the deck reasonable access to Sidisi, Brood Tyrant. I am still skeptical as to whether or not a creature heavy build would really work in a control shell, but I am happy we are seeing some good options to play with in the event that the spot removal spells the deck needs are not printed.
I am not sure I would go that far. Mauler will be a pain to deal with but, a simple death touch creature can finish him off or a board-wipe, which there are 4 of at them moment in standard that will hit him (Elspeth, Duneblast, End Hostilities, and Extinguish All Hopes). I think he will be good and hard to deal with, but not a virtually impossible to deal with game ender that AEtherling was. I remember I had to use 3 spot removal cards in a row to kill one aetherling.
Is the synergy between Jace,the Living Guildpact and Sidisi, Brood Tyrant strong enough to include in a deck? The manipulation of the top of your library with Courser of Kruphix/Kiora, the Crashing Wave is already powerful, adding Fetchlands and this could enhance it. Gets even better if any sweet Delve cards get spoiled.
So if the answers to mauler is narrow and bad on their own this is what makes it bad?
Look at Geist of St. Traft during its standard. The ONLY reason this guy was good at all there were 2-3 cards in the entire format that could answer him.
Take any creature out there in the format. Then, look at all the removal that can kill. The creature with the least removal answers will rise to the top of the meta game.
Mauler is crazy good. Even if they have deathtouch. Mauler has trample. He will be hitting your opponent in the face. He isn't legendary we can pack 4 of them into a deck. The real question is this. Is he better than doom engine? I really don't know.
How are those choices narrow? If they're constructed worthy, just having 2 of those cards would be enough for a control deck. Sagu Mauler is alright, but it doesn't have the evasiveness or utility of AEtherling. Then again, I don't think most people would put Sagu Mauler in a control shell as a finisher either. I'm not saying it's bad, but it ain't no AEtherling.
Sure, he is hard to remove with spells. But there are a lot of creatures that can be on chump duty while real threats are racing you. Mauler is not good at racing aggro decks that go wide or midrange decks that go up and over. AEtherling could race these things by being unblockable and pumping himself up. Those early game coursers make Mauler look silly compared to something like Prognostic Sphinx which is getting damage through and giving you a far more powerful ability tacked onto it than simple Hexproof and he can give himself Hexproof on a whim all the same.
Mauler just a dumb hex beater and that is it. Geist was good because you had ways to protect him from combat while also pushing through 4 damage that was highly evasive.
I think I would rather streamline a creature finisher whenever possible, and in the case of Mauler, it is possible.
Either way, he is a 6/6, which is twice the power of Prog Sphinx. While Sphinx might not be blocked as easily, it is still possible to do so. I don't think that flying is strictly better than trample.
He also has Hexproof 100% of the time, while Sphinx can gain it if you pitch a card, but that also taps it. At PT Theros, you would see BUG trying to stabilize a decent amount of the time from a specific threat just to have them downfall/silence/b light/Kiora the sphinx and swing for lethal. This guy does not have those problems. He comes down, and stays there unless you wrath him away, or your opponent does (and if that is the case, he is not super in the mirror I would imagine initially).
I like Sphinx, but he also only deals 3 damage a swing and is easier to kill than Mauler, while being card DISADVANTAGE if we have to give him hexproof. Seeing as most control decks play seldom few creatures or permanents in general, typically there is always at least 1 removal spell waiting for him.
Plus this dude can technically be played on T3 against a hyper aggressive deck to trade if need be.
Aye, because there isn't any other way besides Mill to win the game. You have to do 20 damage somehow. Plus, he is not just a big dumb beater (hexproof).
I'm not sure you played Alara/Zen standard, but Sphinx of Jwar Isle used to be a finisher in control decks because:
1) Evasion (and yes, trample is evasion)
2) Very difficult to answer (in this case Shroud, and Hexproof is strictly better upgrade)
Sagu Mauler is a very good control finisher because it ends games quickly and is very difficult to interact with. Plus, he can even be useful early in the game against aggressive decks, by just playing him out as a 2/2 that will either trade with a dude, or a spell in their hand. Something that most Control finishers are unable to do. You're also vastly overweighting the usefulness of Prognostic Sphinx. Sphinx is a bad finisher, and bad defender. (I guess you forgot that he has to tap himself to give himself hexproof?)
In colors without Elspeth, you're not going to find anything better (so far anyways).
I played control from Shadowmoor-Alara to Zen-Scars. I am more than aware of why Sphinx was ran during it's time and also more than aware that it's inclution was primarily when Jund was over saturated or you were in colors that could not play Baneslayer Angel. Those were driving factors that led to the use of Sphinx at the time.
Pros:
- Less Mana
- Much more control over your deck with SulAscendancy's modified Scry, compared to TLGP's "This-or-that" +1 ability
- Possibly better in creature-based decks attempting to run Sidisi as a finisher, or decks relying more heavily on Delve mechanics
- Harder to remove for creature-based decks (admittedly may not be relevant; with Wedge decks, it's pretty hard not to have access to enchantment hate)
Cons:
- Potentially slower to play than TLGP if you don't get the right mana early
- Losing access to Jace's other Planeswalker abilities, which are pretty useful in control (iirc, TLGP's ultimate is the only way to shuffle your GY into your library after rotation)
- One less permanent for your opponent to spend their Banishing Light/Hero's Downfall on instead of Kiora/Nissa
What do you guys think? Personally, I would choose Sultai Ascendancy over Jace; but, I am biased against Jace, so I'm interested in hearing the other side, as well.
2 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
2 Rakshasa Vizier
1 Mnemonic Wall
3 Nyx Weaver
4 Satyr Wayfinder
3 Sultai Ascendancy
Planeswalkers: 5
3 Jace, the Living Guildpact
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Spells: 13
2 Bile Blight
2 Empty the Pits
3 Sultai Charm
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Thoughtseize
If you think it's too creature heavy you can move the Vizier to the sideboard against Tormod's Crypt.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
EDIT: Your dredge idea got me thinking though. While I don't see the potential for a full on dredge/control hybrid thus far, I do like BUG dredge midrange as a deck. I posted a thread in this same section if you want to look GuildCaster.
I think my list looks like this right now:
4x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Prognostic Sphinx
Planeswalkers:
4x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3x Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2x Nissa, Worldwaker
1x Garruk, Apex Predator
Instants:
3x Soltai Charm
3x Hero's Downfall
3x Dissolve
3x Aetherspouts
2x Jace's Ingenuity
3x Thoughtseize
Enchantments:
2x Soltai Ascendency
Lands:
4x Polluted Delta
4x Opulent Palace
3x Temple of Mystery
2x Temple of Malady
3x Temple of Deceit
2x Llanowar Wastes
2x Yavimaya Coast
3x Island
1x Forest
1x Swamp
3x Mistcutter Hydra
2x Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
2x Empty the Pits
1x Liliana Vess
1x Garruk, Apex Predator
2x Drown in Sorrow
2x Undecided
Not sure you really want dissolve in here, you are playing a lot of sorcery speed cards, it's going to be hard to hold up 1uu, this is the reason why dissolve was only played in the board as a 1-of in the block decks. Courser seems like a better card. I've also never been a fan of kiora but I guess we need her for the card draw. I'd still just play 2 kiora, cut the dissolves, and play 4 courser. Courser is also a safer choice than those 2 because there will probably be a descent amount of agro decks immediately following rotation.
A card that always did heavy lifting in block was reaper of the wilds, You might want to try to fit in 1 or 2. He blocks just about everything like a champ, can get hexproof, and can trade with almost anything larger than it.
Since the deck can't really kill anything until turn 3, you need blockers like courser and reaper to stop large assaults and protect your walkers.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring