When you cast Genesis Hydra, reveal the top X cards of your library. You may put a nonland permanent card with converted mana cost X or less from among them onto the battlefield. Then shuffle the rest into your library.
Genesis Hydra enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
So its trigger is on cast. Unless I'm crazy, this means the psuedo-tutor and put into play occurs even if Genesis Hydra is countered because its ability goes on the stack when you cast it, right? Likewise, it accordingly is also unaffected by things like Hushwing Gryff. And unlike Chord of Calling it hits ALL [edit for clarity: non-land] permanent types...
So unless I'm crazy its an essentially uncounterable (though in other formats it could be stifled?) hybrid of Genesis Wave with Chord of Calling, that, most of the time, also gives you an X/X creature?
It seems really good, especially if your deck is built on synergy more than combo.
What are other opinions on it? Am I right in my interpretation of how it works? Does the effectively uncounterable nature of its ability and the fact that it can hit non-creature permanents make it potentially better than Chord of Calling in this format?
Unintentional exaggeration there. I know it can't hit lands. So, yes, I should have said all non-land permanent types. I was attempting to highlight that you could use to get artifacts, plainswalkers, and enchantments, not just creatures. And that if I understand the rules correctly that effect is essentially not counterable by counterspells.
If you use it to bring a planeswalker into play then dont forget that the ability resolves before the hydra does, so there will be a moment when your opponent can kill the planeswalker before the hydra resolves and you dont get to use any of its abilities. While you might argue that this is a good thing because you still have a body on the field, sure its card advantage but the 5/5 you have left over is pretty bad. Its sort of like playing brimaz, attacking and having him killed then getting excited because you still have a 1/1
The effect of Genesis Hydra activates the same time you cast him, and is put on to the stack.
His effect will actually resolve before he does - so take this into account if you want to tutor an aura.
The way I understand it (correct me If I'm wrong) is that even if a Genesis Hydra get's countered his effect will still resolve:
The counterspell is placed onto the stack above his tutor effect, and must target him himself - it cannot target his ability.
When the counterspell resolves it will negate Genesis Hydra, but not the effect.
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The effect of Genesis Hydra activates the same time you cast him, and is put on to the stack.
His effect will actually resolve before he does - so take this into account if you want to tutor an aura.
The way I understand it (correct me If I'm wrong) is that even if a Genesis Hydra get's countered his effect will still resolve:
The counterspell is placed onto the stack above his tutor effect, and must target him himself - it cannot target his ability.
When the counterspell resolves it will negate Genesis Hydra, but not the effect.
Your understanding is correct. Since the ability is a triggered ability, the ability itself creates a separate instance on the stack while the Hydra itself is on the stack. Both ability and hydra have to be countered separately.
The problem is that it costs XGG and can only search the top X cards. So unless you can cast this for 6-7 mana at least it's not going to be great.
That's debatable, even just going for x=3 can still be very beneficial - There are plenty of relevant 3 cost cards worth getting such as Courser of Kruphix, Reclamation Sage or even Banishing light.
There are also plenty of ways to eliminate the "randomness" such as via Scrying - or yet again Courser of Kruphix to name a few.
Besides, lets be honest - 7 mana is a cakewalk for green.
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The problem is that it costs XGG and can only search the top X cards. So unless you can cast this for 6-7 mana at least it's not going to be great.
That's not a problem, that's a feature.
Considering the disgusting amount of ramp we have available to us, slamming this on turn 5 for X=7 or 8 via turn 4 Nissa is quite practical. Besides, I can't be the only one that's missed the Cascade Lottery (TM).
If you use it to bring a planeswalker into play then dont forget that the ability resolves before the hydra does, so there will be a moment when your opponent can kill the planeswalker before the hydra resolves and you dont get to use any of its abilities. While you might argue that this is a good thing because you still have a body on the field, sure its card advantage but the 5/5 you have left over is pretty bad. Its sort of like playing brimaz, attacking and having him killed then getting excited because you still have a 1/1
Ah, because there are still things on the stack when the plainswalker enters the battlefield you won't be able to use it when you have priority (until the stack clears) because it runs at sorcery speed... It took me a second to realize how that interaction all worked. Though the degree of problem that is will vary a lot from match to match. Vs. blue there's probably not a downside and that's the match where not being countered is most relevant.
The problem is that it costs XGG and can only search the top X cards. So unless you can cast this for 6-7 mana at least it's not going to be great.
This is why I think it makes the most sense for decks with high levels of synergy and a clean curve. Getting Brimaz into play and clearing 2 land with x=3 is value city when you're top-decking. Likewise, in G/B finding a Gray Merchant 3 turns early off x=7 would be huge. I feel like put together a synergistic deck with a clean curve and clear goals and throw a couple of these in and suddenly you have much more inevitability.
At X = 7 it's comparable to an entwined Tooth and Nail which is still going for $7 based on modern and legacy play. This card is tooth and nail for standard where the aggro isn't as strong and the mid-late game ramp is incredible. I don't see mana cost being a problem for this.
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Currently Playing:UWBRG MAGIC: The Gathering UWBRG
Turn 1 - Forest, Elvish Mystic.
Turn 2 - Island, Kiora's Follower.
Turn 3 - Forest, Prophet of Kruphix; untap, Polukranos.
Turn 4 - Courser of Kruphix, Nykthos; untap, use Mystic and lands to produce 4 mana, use Follower to activate Nykthos twice, get 14 mana, Genesis Hydra for 12, get out a Nylea.
Turn 5 - monstrosity for 9, swing for lethal
Now, what happens when your opponent Thoughtseizes and then Hero's Downfalls you? It's more like:
Turn 1 - Forest, Elvish Mystic. Discard Prophet.
Turn 2 - Island, Kiora's Follower.
Turn 3 - Forest, Polukranos. Polly dies.
Turn 4 - Courser of Kruphix, Nykthos.
Turn 5 - produce 8 mana, Genesis Hydra for 6, get out a Prophet. Still not too shabby.
I don't really see generator servant as that amazing. He is good in that he let's you float 2 mana from the previous turn, but otherwise he's vulnerable while on the table and not great in his own right. Xenagod or Exava both seem like better options to me in that they both add value of their own as well rather than just a small mana float in a ramp deck that can easily be a dead draw in the late game. In all fairness Xenagod can be a brick draw as well which would make Exava a top choice. But Exava means tri-color whereas it's unlikely that Xenagod would brick. ... I guess tri-color isn't that hard to do right now though (even with a devotion focus) and going into B also gives the option to ramp to garruk.
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I'm trying to decide which to add to my RG Monsters that uses devotion on Nythkos. Genesis Hydra:
Can cast for 7 to pull a 5 drop on turn 4 with RG Monsters.
Leaves Behind a solid body.
Most of the time, with stormbreath, Poluk, Glor-Clan, Xenagos, Purphoros you are going to hit when digging for 5.
More resistant to counter
Domri Rade and Garruk Green can reveal Genesis Hydra and put it in your hand.
This pulls Planeswalkers. Playing a 5/5 Hydra for 7 then putting a Domri or Xenagos on battlefield too.
Chord of Calling
Instant Speed can cause combat blowout, reduce counter chances, pseudo-haste
You always are successful digging for exact card you want
Convoke can reduce overall casting cost, but many of your early creatures already mana dorks
After playing both, leaning towards Genesis Hydra for RG Monsters
I agree that the hydra looks like a really powerful card. Obviously there's a worst case scenario of whiffing, but it's a card that's reasonable to play at just about any point in a game, and while there will be (fun) challenges in building a deck with it, I think that a well-built deck will get card advantage from it more often than it won't - even at x=3, if that's how the deck is built.
Also, a turn 3 or 4 Generator Servant into Genesis Hydra seems like it could be a cute but potentially strong play.
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Card text:
So its trigger is on cast. Unless I'm crazy, this means the psuedo-tutor and put into play occurs even if Genesis Hydra is countered because its ability goes on the stack when you cast it, right? Likewise, it accordingly is also unaffected by things like Hushwing Gryff. And unlike Chord of Calling it hits ALL [edit for clarity: non-land] permanent types...
So unless I'm crazy its an essentially uncounterable (though in other formats it could be stifled?) hybrid of Genesis Wave with Chord of Calling, that, most of the time, also gives you an X/X creature?
It seems really good, especially if your deck is built on synergy more than combo.
What are other opinions on it? Am I right in my interpretation of how it works? Does the effectively uncounterable nature of its ability and the fact that it can hit non-creature permanents make it potentially better than Chord of Calling in this format?
Tappedout
Cubetutor
His effect will actually resolve before he does - so take this into account if you want to tutor an aura.
The way I understand it (correct me If I'm wrong) is that even if a Genesis Hydra get's countered his effect will still resolve:
The counterspell is placed onto the stack above his tutor effect, and must target him himself - it cannot target his ability.
When the counterspell resolves it will negate Genesis Hydra, but not the effect.
Great place to get Anime, Figurines, Comics and Magic The Gathering cards in South Africa: www.heroesofgc.com
Your understanding is correct. Since the ability is a triggered ability, the ability itself creates a separate instance on the stack while the Hydra itself is on the stack. Both ability and hydra have to be countered separately.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
That's debatable, even just going for x=3 can still be very beneficial - There are plenty of relevant 3 cost cards worth getting such as Courser of Kruphix, Reclamation Sage or even Banishing light.
There are also plenty of ways to eliminate the "randomness" such as via Scrying - or yet again Courser of Kruphix to name a few.
Besides, lets be honest - 7 mana is a cakewalk for green.
Great place to get Anime, Figurines, Comics and Magic The Gathering cards in South Africa: www.heroesofgc.com
That's not a problem, that's a feature.
Considering the disgusting amount of ramp we have available to us, slamming this on turn 5 for X=7 or 8 via turn 4 Nissa is quite practical. Besides, I can't be the only one that's missed the Cascade Lottery (TM).
GWURafiq of the TempoGWU
(Okay obviously it wool see play but I mean serious top tier play)
Ah, because there are still things on the stack when the plainswalker enters the battlefield you won't be able to use it when you have priority (until the stack clears) because it runs at sorcery speed... It took me a second to realize how that interaction all worked. Though the degree of problem that is will vary a lot from match to match. Vs. blue there's probably not a downside and that's the match where not being countered is most relevant.
This is why I think it makes the most sense for decks with high levels of synergy and a clean curve. Getting Brimaz into play and clearing 2 land with x=3 is value city when you're top-decking. Likewise, in G/B finding a Gray Merchant 3 turns early off x=7 would be huge. I feel like put together a synergistic deck with a clean curve and clear goals and throw a couple of these in and suddenly you have much more inevitability.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
Turn 1 - Forest, Elvish Mystic.
Turn 2 - Island, Kiora's Follower.
Turn 3 - Forest, Prophet of Kruphix; untap, Polukranos.
Turn 4 - Courser of Kruphix, Nykthos; untap, use Mystic and lands to produce 4 mana, use Follower to activate Nykthos twice, get 14 mana, Genesis Hydra for 12, get out a Nylea.
Turn 5 - monstrosity for 9, swing for lethal
Now, what happens when your opponent Thoughtseizes and then Hero's Downfalls you? It's more like:
Turn 1 - Forest, Elvish Mystic. Discard Prophet.
Turn 2 - Island, Kiora's Follower.
Turn 3 - Forest, Polukranos. Polly dies.
Turn 4 - Courser of Kruphix, Nykthos.
Turn 5 - produce 8 mana, Genesis Hydra for 6, get out a Prophet. Still not too shabby.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10332184&postcount=124
Both served dig purpose well.
I'm trying to decide which to add to my RG Monsters that uses devotion on Nythkos.
Genesis Hydra:
Can cast for 7 to pull a 5 drop on turn 4 with RG Monsters.
Leaves Behind a solid body.
Most of the time, with stormbreath, Poluk, Glor-Clan, Xenagos, Purphoros you are going to hit when digging for 5.
More resistant to counter
Domri Rade and Garruk Green can reveal Genesis Hydra and put it in your hand.
This pulls Planeswalkers. Playing a 5/5 Hydra for 7 then putting a Domri or Xenagos on battlefield too.
Chord of Calling
Instant Speed can cause combat blowout, reduce counter chances, pseudo-haste
You always are successful digging for exact card you want
Convoke can reduce overall casting cost, but many of your early creatures already mana dorks
After playing both, leaning towards Genesis Hydra for RG Monsters
it's also really good with Cards tnat scry.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
Also, a turn 3 or 4 Generator Servant into Genesis Hydra seems like it could be a cute but potentially strong play.