MTG Salvation

I've made a new thread in the Standard Deck Creation thread now that M15 discussion is allowed there.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/564259-g-b-monsters-m15-and-rotation-lists

So I wanted to try a new deck with Nissa and Garruk M15 Planeswalkers as stars. This is my attempt at converting the G/R and Jund Monsters decks into G/B Monsters. Thoughts?

Here is a post-rotation shell so far:

I think the better shell will probably end up as a G/B ramp/devotion deck with some of the high end power available. There's a ton of really powerful options late for G/B in a few weeks.

Seems like a pretty solid stab, but maybe 2 of the Reapers should be Arbor Colossus? Should be pretty easy to cast and monstrous w/all the extra land untapping going on. Arbor also keeps the skies covered since we lack Stormbreaths now. As much aggro as there has been recently, plus just getting tired of seeing the card, you might toss those other cards you wanted in instead of the Thoughtseize. Also, as much as I like Urborg, it isn't Contamination. It won't make your opponents lands only produce black. I realize it's a pain free way to get more black in the deck, but there isn't a ton of black needed in the deck anyway. You only have 1/5 the number of black pips as green once double counting multiple pips for weighting is taken into consideration. (61G vs 12B) Without the Urborg you have 8B vs 23G mana sources. If you drop the TS's for 2 each HD and StM, you only barely increase your black count. If you swap 2 Reaper for 2 Arbor, you're probably right back at the same ratio or slightly more in green's favor.

-2 Reaper of the Wilds
-3 Urborg
-4 Thoughtseize
+2 Arbor Colossus
+3 Forest (maybe 1-2 Llanowar Wastes and the balance forests if you're really worried about the B mana)
+2 Stain the Mind
+2 Hero's Downfall

Also, is there any reason not to try and find room for a couple Chord of Calling? Have a bunch of mana sitting around and need to go grab SOMETHING. Hmm, yeah I could use a Polukranos, here we go. Go grab Reaper, Arbor...whatever will solve the current issue being faced. If we do this, do we try and fit a couple of the new better Uktabi Orangutan Elf to Chord away annoying Banishing Lights or Waste Not or the Veil or whatever ails us?

Personally I would probably make the Reaper slots flex slots in the post-rotation since there are an embarrassment of big green and black creatures we could shove in that space...or Soul of New Phyrexia. Just some ideas, keep up the good work.

I understand the ratios on lands, but from personal experience it's always better to give yourself a little big of extra of mana for your splash color. And Urborg is just too good. They also let me run colorless utility lands like Mutavault without having to worry about them only producing colorless mana. I don't really need the extra forests. Nissa untaps "up to" four and even untapping only 2-3 is very potent. Especially when I'm not running any X spells where the bigger the X, the better the effect. Even if I ran Chord of Calling, it wouldn't be that important when I also have convoke. Personally I think it's a great card, I'm just not 100% sold on it for this deck. I see it as essentially using 2 slots for 1 creature, when I could use those slots for a wider variety of creatures and interaction.

As for Reaper, it's actually one of the best creatures in the colors presently available. In the pre-rotation build they could possibly be Desecration Demon or something, but I don't really want too many BB spells. I do like Soul of New Phyrexia though. So I'll give 1-2 of them a try.

And I'm 100% keeping the Thoughtseizes. They're just too good at dealing with problem cards before the become a problem and for only 1 mana and 2 life.

As for Stain the Mind, I was thinking of it as more of a sideboard card. Especially after rotation when the format is sort of a blunder of what people will be playing.

I'm thinking maybe:

-2 Reaper of the Wilds
+1 Soul of New Phyrexia
+1 Hero's Downfall

Thoughts?

Quote from LordGrimpow »

I see it as essentially using 2 slots for 1 creature, when I could use those slots for a wider variety of creatures and interaction.

It's less 2 slots for 1 creature and more like 2 extras of every creature you think you may need to solve a problem in the game. Granted, unless you also pack that 5cc double Regrowth, a Monsters shell lacks ways to recur that spell, but it does add a certain degree of flexibility. Entirely probable it isn't right for the deck, just something I wanted to throw out there. I love when a format is new, b/c I get to throw all kinds of stuff at the wall and see what sticks. One of my friends at work is quick to poo poo things and we had a bit of a discussion about it today and I think he finally understands my approach. I'm just trying to remain open to the possibilities of some cards and not just knee jerk "that sucks" (Jace anyone?).

Quote from LordGrimpow »

As for Reaper, it's actually one of the best creatures in the colors presently available. In the pre-rotation build they could possibly be Desecration Demon or something, but I don't really want too many BB spells. I do like Soul of New Phyrexia though. So I'll give 1-2 of them a try.

And I'm 100% keeping the Thoughtseizes. They're just too good at dealing with problem cards before the become a problem and for only 1 mana and 2 life.

As for Stain the Mind, I was thinking of it as more of a sideboard card. Especially after rotation when the format is sort of a blunder of what people will be playing.

I'm thinking maybe:

-2 Reaper of the Wilds
+1 Soul of New Phyrexia
+1 Hero's Downfall

Thoughts?

Seems like a plan and I agree completely about limiting the double black slots. I know some of the Jund Monsters would squeeze 1-2 Thoughtseize in sometimes and w/the deck narrowed by a color there could be more space for something like that, I'm just tired of the spell. I even play MBD pretty frequently and I'm still sick of it. Always love when they TS my red aggro deck tho. Help me along and rarely do much to slow me down

The swaps are reasonable and logical. Are we sure you're a Magic player on the internet? heh. Proxy that baby up and run some matches

Also, this dude may be bucking for design space w/the Soul of NP. http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/scuttling-doom-engine/ Something tells me using him w/some way that you can sacrifice him would be amazing. Opponent is down to 6 or less? Devour Flesh your own Scuttling Doom Engine. You gain 6 life, they take 6 damage Sac him to your opponents Desecration Demon. I have 3 boxes of 2015 coming my way, I plan to have several of this guy.

PS I'm stupid. Life's Legacy. Cast Scuttling dude. Tap 2 more mana and sac him to draw 6 cards and hit your opponent for 6 to the dome. Scourge of Skola Vale gets a lot bigger fast too. Tormented Thoughts is probably bad, but gets the large discard of Rakdos's Return at least. Probably venturing away from G/B Monsters now, but it's interesting. I was forgetting about Life's Legacy. I will probably be trying to fit a pair of those in any deck I'm running big dudes. Even better if you already used a Ghor Clan Rampager on someone..like a Monstroused Arbor Colossus. Draw 13 sounds pretty freakin sweet heh.

Yes I'm a magic player on the internet. Though I do play a lot of competitive magic and consistently watch Pros play through streams and read their articles.

I am on the fence about Scuttling Doom Engine too. He does seem really sweet with sac outlets. I'd have to try both of them out and see what's better most of the time.

I already built a mono red control deck around Scuttling Doom Engine, about a dozen artifacts total (incl Darksteel Citadel) and Shrapnel Blast. Swing for 6, then sac him to Shrapnel Blast for another 11 is just nuts

I think that SoNP will be really strong and if you get to untap w/him out, you can keep your team safe while you wail on them. SDE will make them very reluctant to use their removal spells and they will turn into dead cards.

6 of one, half dozen of the other

Mistcutter Hydra could potentially be moved from the side deck to the main deck over Reaper of the Wilds. The ramp from Nissa makes it potentially really deadly. This would free up 2 slots in the sideboard. What do you guys think about this idea?

I like Mistcutter. I will like Mistcutter a lot more when Abrupt Decay is gone. Lots of decks just can't handle that, I say go for it

BTW, Kibler posted this deck today on the premium side, no Nissa, it was an experiment involving Garruk.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28859_Hunting-For-Hits-In-Magic-2015.html


Creatures (16)

4 Elvish Mystic
2 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Polukranos, World Eater

Planeswalkers (3)

3 Garruk, Apex Predator

Lands (24)

4 Forest
4 Swamp
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Mutavault
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple of Malady

Spells (17)

4 Abrupt Decay
1 Bile Blight
1 Golgari Charm
3 Hero's Downfall
1 Putrefy
3 Read the Bones
4 Thoughtseiz

Quote from SSquirrel »

BTW, Kibler posted this deck today on the premium side, no Nissa, it was an experiment involving Garruk.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28859_Hunting-For-Hits-In-Magic-2015.html

Kibler's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Creatures (16) 4 Elvish Mystic 2 Reaper of the Wilds 4 Scavenging Ooze 4 Sylvan Caryatid 2 Polukranos, World Eater Planeswalkers (3) 3 Garruk, Apex Predator	Lands (24) 4 Forest 4 Swamp 4 Llanowar Wastes 4 Mutavault 4 Overgrown Tomb 4 Temple of Malady	Spells (17) 4 Abrupt Decay 1 Bile Blight 1 Golgari Charm 3 Hero's Downfall 1 Putrefy 3 Read the Bones 4 Thoughtseize

Yeah I saw that list. However I feel that this is more of a control deck than a midrange deck and that he is taking it in a slightly slower direction

Not disagreeing, just wanted to share I didn't remember if I saw your link for this thread from a premium thread or not. Certainly a bit of crossover.

I am toying around with a Rock/Ramp deck list myself with Nissa and Garruk. I am surprised by Kibler list not including Courser of Kruphix. I feel like that is one of the most important ramp cards we have.

I am also depending on making this a super friends deck with BUG. My only concern is mana fixing once the shocks leave, but we may be getting fetches soon (fingers crossed). Blue has some very, very good planeswalkers atm and M15 has some very good cards spoiled for blue.

I was thinking something like

3x Nissa
3x Kiora
2x Garruk

for a base. I am +/- Ashiok. If I come up with a deck list I will post it.

Problem is that by running blue you lower the effectiveness of the 2nd Nissa ability. And Courser isn't really ramp because doesn't allow you to reuse mana or put more than the normal amount of lands into play in a single turn. Rather, it's draw fixing.

I've updated the sideboards to include Reclamation Sage. In the post-rotation list I've listed it as flex because I'm not sure how many relevant enchantments there will be getting played. I've included it thought because of Banishing Light and Chained to the Rocks.

Yeah, I've been finding it to be less effective than I'd hoped in the main (except against monsters where it's outstanding). I do really like how effective it is in combo with Hornet Nest or its tokens.

I've been thinking of trying a deck similar to yours, and I just had a few questions:

1) Have you considered maindecking a Reclamation Sage or two? I'm having trouble thinking of a deck outside of RDW that it would whiff on.
2) Have you considered Chord of Calling? By changing the deck up a bit (adding in a few 1-ofs like Soul of New Phyrexia, Arbor Colossus) I think it will make us less vulnerable to sweepers by doing our fatty-casting EoT.
3) What do you think of a 1-of Soul of Innistrad? I'm not wild about the card on its own, but this guy might provide some creature recursion for late game. Maybe a sideboard card for games we think might go long?
4) Finally, have you thought about Hornet Nest as a SB option again hard aggro? RDW, white weenie, and mono blue devotion would all have problems with this guy.

Quote from Outcryqq »

I've been thinking of trying a deck similar to yours, and I just had a few questions:

1) Have you considered maindecking a Reclamation Sage or two? I'm having trouble thinking of a deck outside of RDW that it would whiff on.
2) Have you considered Chord of Calling? By changing the deck up a bit (adding in a few 1-ofs like Soul of New Phyrexia, Arbor Colossus) I think it will make us less vulnerable to sweepers by doing our fatty-casting EoT.
3) What do you think of a 1-of Soul of Innistrad? I'm not wild about the card on its own, but this guy might provide some creature recursion for late game. Maybe a sideboard card for games we think might go long?
4) Finally, have you thought about Hornet Nest as a SB option again hard aggro? RDW, white weenie, and mono blue devotion would all have problems with this guy.

I've made a new thread in the Standard Deck Creation thread now that M15 discussion is allowed there.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/564259-g-b-monsters-m15-and-rotation-lists

But to answer your questions:

1) I've decided to sideboard Reclamation Sage. Main decking such a narrow 2/1 for 3 mana is a bit too much for a midrange deck. If I were a toolbox deck like Modern Pod, I would be much happier to main deck it.

2) I've said this before in various other places, but Chord of Calling is not a good tool in the slightest for a deck like this. It's best application is in a deck full of toolbox/combo creatures.

3) Soul of New Phyrexia, yes I've considered it. Decided on Scuttling Doom Engine instead. Soul of Innistrad is one of the worst of the cycle if not THEE worst. I don't think its 60-card constructed playable in anything remotely competitive. Even dredge decks shouldn't play it.

4) Yes. This card is amazing, but I wouldn't main deck it in a midrange deck. It's a toolbox creature built to answer aggressive and midrange creatures. So I've decided to side deck it. I also wouldn't count on it against monoblue devotion since they run a ton of fliers and can play around it due to its inability to block them.

Terra stomper and the new 5G treefolk that copies himself have potential because he's a 2 for 1 and no temples because turn 1 mystic is to important. Also overgrown tombs count as forests! So nissa untaps those bad boys to for your downfalls. And run in Garruk's wake oh my god. The voyaging satyrs untap nythxos and the animated lands.