4 cost - 5 loyalty (Good)
+1 - Good for a control deck, but it doesn't help right away, as in THAT TURN (only helps set you up for next turn, if that)
-3 - Sorcery speed bounce just isn't that great (Will work ok, but terrible cost)
-8 - Will almost never be used (Clearly designed to fit in a control deck, ok)
I think it would have been better with a classic 4 loyalty start, -2 bounce, and -7 instead of -8.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I think LSV is right when he says it has a potential role to play as a tempo card in Mono-Blue Devotion. Play this, Get +2 devotion for Thassa, bounce the big dude/D-Sphere that's holding you back. When you don't have enough loyalty or anything to bounce profitably, dig for the cards that will keep you in the game (there are many useless/redundant ones at various points in that deck) and force your opponent to deal with him before his ultimate just wreaks havoc.
But he's definitely one where you either need to be on the attack or under no pressure from the opponent. He can't stabilize you, and if you try, you'll end up with a surefire underperformer.
I think LSV is right when he says it has a potential role to play as a tempo card in Mono-Blue Devotion. Play this, Get +2 devotion for Thassa, bounce the big dude/D-Sphere that's holding you back. When you don't have enough loyalty or anything to bounce profitably, dig for the cards that will keep you in the game (there are many useless/redundant ones at various points in that deck) and force your opponent to deal with him before his ultimate just wreaks havoc.
But he's definitely one where you either need to be on the attack or under no pressure from the opponent. He can't stabilize you, and if you try, you'll end up with a surefire underperformer.
I would be more open to this view of the card, if it were not for the fact that Mono Blue needs more than these abilities to re position itself within the meta.
I would be more open to this view of the card, if it were not for the fact that Mono Blue needs more than these abilities to re position itself within the meta.
Agreed that it's not going to redefine it, but there's a good amount of synergy at the top end. At the very least, it offers more value in this metagame than JAoT does.
Also, rotation is coming up, and if MUD is going to stay a player, it needs all the playables it can get. Hopefully it gets a new UU drop, or else it will be irrelevant the same way it was in block.
I do not see a tempo card here, I see a win condition that you need other cards to defend, but that quickly wins you the game. Pretend the -3 doesn't exist and evaluate the card and it's got potential.
More like Luminarch Ascension than anything else - he does little for three turns (draw smoothing helps you keep him alive which partly makes up for being 2 mana more than LA, which isn't Standard legal anyway), then does an ultimate that's significantly better* than Kiora's and about as close to game over as the Mind Sculptor ultimate or Ajani 2.0 ultimates were.
The -3 is for emergency use only.
* - Not better in all game states, but better overall.
I would be more open to this view of the card, if it were not for the fact that Mono Blue needs more than these abilities to re position itself within the meta.
Agreed that it's not going to redefine it, but there's a good amount of synergy at the top end. At the very least, it offers more value in this metagame than JAoT does.
Also, rotation is coming up, and if MUD is going to stay a player, it needs all the playables it can get. Hopefully it gets a new UU drop, or else it will be irrelevant the same way it was in block.
I am going to assume that your comparison to Jace, AoT is relative to Mono Blue.
The simple fact that Master of Waves is probably enough to assume that it could find some breathing room after rotation, but once again I am not a big fan of talking about the application of a freshly spoiled card in regards to what a new set may or may not bring down the road, but I guess MoW can give some players hope for this card, not entirely sure I will hold my breath for it.
I am going to assume that your comparison to Jace, AoT is relative to Mono Blue.
The simple fact that Master of Waves is probably enough to assume that it could find some breathing room after rotation, but once again I am not a big fan of talking about the application of a freshly spoiled card in regards to what a new set may or may not bring down the road, but I guess MoW can give some players hope for this card, not entirely sure I will hold my breath for it.
Correct. All this is only in regards to Mono-Blue.
I do not see a tempo card here, I see a win condition that you need other cards to defend, but that quickly wins you the game. Pretend the -3 doesn't exist and evaluate the card and it's got potential.
More like Luminarch Ascension than anything else - he does little for three turns (draw smoothing helps you keep him alive which partly makes up for being 2 mana more than LA, which isn't Standard legal anyway), then does an ultimate that's significantly better* than Kiora's and about as close to game over as the Mind Sculptor ultimate or Ajani 2.0 ultimates were.
The -3 is for emergency use only.
* - Not better in all game states, but better overall.
Sirgog, I don't know that this has any business in control. What control wants from a planeswalker is raw resources and the ability to stabilize you: exactly what Jace 4.0 is good for. New Jace can only hold off the horde for a single turn and can't inherently get you card advantage outside of the ultimate. Jace 4.0 was also better at finding you a spur-of-the-moment solution when you needed one. You mentioned Luminarch Ascension... there's a reason that card never saw play in traditional control.
Then again, who knows what forms control will take without a Sphinx's Revelation to ride on.
woohoo!!!! Awesome Jace! I absolutely love him! It means I'll finally play for a year in standard (hopefully) where Jace will not even be remotely relevant.
woohoo!!!! Awesome Jace! I absolutely love him! It means I'll finally play for a year in standard (hopefully) where Jace will not even be remotely relevant.
Some people have some serious chips on their shoulder about this guy. Which I find amusing, because he is not what makes the control decks unbearable - that title belongs to Sphinx's Revelation.
That being said, I do tire of seeing him as the only blue walker and would love to see some other characters take up that slot. Kiora is going to have to do for now I suppose.
It's not that I don't like him, I just find him boring and stupid. The least interesting character MtG has. He's like the Justin Beiber of Magic. I want to see other blue planeswalkers for once. I like 3 walkers, Garruk, Lily, and Elspeth. After those 3, it's Ajani, Tamiyo, and Venser. After them it's Sorin, Sarkhan Vol, and Nicol Bolas. I really think Jace is overrated, a loser, and he should have died, not Xenagos or Elspeth.
Interesting, because his motivations to me are far more intriguing than any of the other walkers who are seemingly bound to a set series of motivations leading to much less dynamic roles...
As a friend put it, about time Jace got the "Firebrand" treatment.
And its about time Red get a better Planeswalker along the lines of Jace The Mind Sculpter, Elspeth, Garruck, Karn, Liliana and not counting Domri and Xenagos.
Its pretty bad but intresting, could his +1 work in a reanimator deck? Problem seems that if you wanted to use it that way you'd end up playing 4 colors... blue for him, black for reanimator sells, white for good value creatures, and green for self mill.
They finally printed a Jace that doesn't draw cards until its ultimate. Good. I'm tired of seeing every single blue-based control deck centering around whatever Jace is legal at the time. Want to draw cards? Earn the right to do so.
Great art (I bet this would look awesome in foil) but not so good card. He also starts off with 5 loyalty so he's got that going for him.
I don't really play blue but I can tell that this was not what most people were expecting.
While reading the first ability, I was looking for a "draw a card" phrase somewhere but was surprised to see none. Maybe as an outlet for reanimator decks? I don't really know. This really seems like a 'Scry 2' ability to me.
He does have a way of protecting himself via his -3 (too much?). I'm thinking in control mirrors, this could be a way of checking your opponent's Elspeth or something but I'm not really sure. Against aggressive decks, people would just ignore Jace and smash face.
His ultimate is kinda hard to evaluate - if you have duds in your hand, this is good - a pseudo Sphinx's Rev. Maybe when Sphinx's Rev rotates?
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http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/m15/sf0JdVsk2/EN_huddvvv39d.png
Currently, I do not see support for such a deck.
Bad.
More bad than that even.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
― Anthony Bourdain, Kitchen Confidential
I will always firmly stand by the belief that Magic is a game first and a collectable second.
-3 Bounce a non land. seems ok.
-8 Win Fall?
wtf is this? Jace is supposed to be a good planeswalker!
4 cost - 5 loyalty (Good)
+1 - Good for a control deck, but it doesn't help right away, as in THAT TURN (only helps set you up for next turn, if that)
-3 - Sorcery speed bounce just isn't that great (Will work ok, but terrible cost)
-8 - Will almost never be used (Clearly designed to fit in a control deck, ok)
I think it would have been better with a classic 4 loyalty start, -2 bounce, and -7 instead of -8.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
The +1 seems good with courser
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
But he's definitely one where you either need to be on the attack or under no pressure from the opponent. He can't stabilize you, and if you try, you'll end up with a surefire underperformer.
Cubetutor Link
I would be more open to this view of the card, if it were not for the fact that Mono Blue needs more than these abilities to re position itself within the meta.
Agreed that it's not going to redefine it, but there's a good amount of synergy at the top end. At the very least, it offers more value in this metagame than JAoT does.
Also, rotation is coming up, and if MUD is going to stay a player, it needs all the playables it can get. Hopefully it gets a new UU drop, or else it will be irrelevant the same way it was in block.
Cubetutor Link
More like Luminarch Ascension than anything else - he does little for three turns (draw smoothing helps you keep him alive which partly makes up for being 2 mana more than LA, which isn't Standard legal anyway), then does an ultimate that's significantly better* than Kiora's and about as close to game over as the Mind Sculptor ultimate or Ajani 2.0 ultimates were.
The -3 is for emergency use only.
* - Not better in all game states, but better overall.
I am going to assume that your comparison to Jace, AoT is relative to Mono Blue.
The simple fact that Master of Waves is probably enough to assume that it could find some breathing room after rotation, but once again I am not a big fan of talking about the application of a freshly spoiled card in regards to what a new set may or may not bring down the road, but I guess MoW can give some players hope for this card, not entirely sure I will hold my breath for it.
Correct. All this is only in regards to Mono-Blue.
Sirgog, I don't know that this has any business in control. What control wants from a planeswalker is raw resources and the ability to stabilize you: exactly what Jace 4.0 is good for. New Jace can only hold off the horde for a single turn and can't inherently get you card advantage outside of the ultimate. Jace 4.0 was also better at finding you a spur-of-the-moment solution when you needed one. You mentioned Luminarch Ascension... there's a reason that card never saw play in traditional control.
Then again, who knows what forms control will take without a Sphinx's Revelation to ride on.
Cubetutor Link
Some people have some serious chips on their shoulder about this guy. Which I find amusing, because he is not what makes the control decks unbearable - that title belongs to Sphinx's Revelation.
That being said, I do tire of seeing him as the only blue walker and would love to see some other characters take up that slot. Kiora is going to have to do for now I suppose.
And its about time Red get a better Planeswalker along the lines of Jace The Mind Sculpter, Elspeth, Garruck, Karn, Liliana and not counting Domri and Xenagos.
Melira Pod - Modern
I don't really play blue but I can tell that this was not what most people were expecting.
While reading the first ability, I was looking for a "draw a card" phrase somewhere but was surprised to see none. Maybe as an outlet for reanimator decks? I don't really know. This really seems like a 'Scry 2' ability to me.
He does have a way of protecting himself via his -3 (too much?). I'm thinking in control mirrors, this could be a way of checking your opponent's Elspeth or something but I'm not really sure. Against aggressive decks, people would just ignore Jace and smash face.
His ultimate is kinda hard to evaluate - if you have duds in your hand, this is good - a pseudo Sphinx's Rev. Maybe when Sphinx's Rev rotates?