So with the new additions from Journey to Nyx I suspect the mono black aggro archetype could be very well positioned if it splashes into red. This is my initial brew so it's obviously far from perfect but thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Where are your Rakdos Cacklers? Being able to turn 1 one drop into two one drops on turn 2 is the best thing you can do. Besides, Cackler is better than hero due to mana and toughness. No way yo should run less than 4 Herald, and Master of the Feast is a really risky mb card in a field full of Mbd. Should be sb. Magma jet doesn't really belong in a deck like this, you'd prolly rather just have the extra damage from Spear. And Twinflame? Way too cute. You could afford a few temples to help the mana probably over mountains.
4 thoughtseize is a must. Let's you beat control decks. There should also be lifebanes somewhere in the 75. He's too high impact not to run.
Where are your Rakdos Cacklers? Being able to turn 1 one drop into two one drops on turn 2 is the best thing you can do. Besides, Cackler is better than hero due to mana and toughness. No way yo should run less than 4 Herald, and Master of the Feast is a really risky mb card in a field full of Mbd. Should be sb. Magma jet doesn't really belong in a deck like this, you'd prolly rather just have the extra damage from Spear. And Twinflame? Way too cute. You could afford a few temples to help the mana probably over mountains.
4 thoughtseize is a must. Let's you beat control decks. There should also be lifebanes somewhere in the 75. He's too high impact not to run.
While I'm also not a fan of the OP's build, I'm going to throw out a few thoughts:
Agree on Cackler
Master of the Feast is a 5/5 flyer on turn 3. If you're near winning or able to close the deal in the next turn or two the opponent's CA may not matter. In this kind of low-curve aggro deck he should shine.
Extra damage from Spear? What spear? Heliod's Spear? You're in the wrong neighborhood lol.
Agree on Twinflame
Thoughtseize needs to be in the SB. Period. It causes inconsistency if you are flat out trying to race another aggro/midrange deck and stop to Thoughtseize. Goes in against control.
Thoughtseize needs to be in the SB. Period. It causes inconsistency if you are flat out trying to race another aggro/midrange deck and stop to Thoughtseize. Goes in against control.
I don't know if I agree with this one. Against aggro/midrange, thoughtseize reads "B: pay 2 life, remove target threat." I've won countless aggro games simply because I snagged their caryatid and kept offense up, or snagged their polukranos leading them to a neutered turn three off solid acceleration. It's essentially super cheap removal, which allows you to stay on curve and apply pressure without giving up an entire turn for hero's downfall for another form of removal. When they do land a solid threat, you're now in range for mogis's marauder or hero's downfall/doomblade to clear the way for a big swing. Aside from that, it gives us a WAY better chance against the multitude of control decks running around the format. You are 100% guaranteed to play against monoblack and u/w in any meta right now, unless you're playing kitchen table. I realize you can draw it when you'd rather draw a threat, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. Thoughtseize is VERY rarely dead in hand for monoblack aggro.
Ignores text boxes and costs one mana, I'm using it for sure. If it's good enough for Owen Turtenwald's aggro, it's good enough for me.
Master of the Feast is a 5/5 flyer on turn 3. If you're near winning or able to close the deal in the next turn or two the opponent's CA may not matter. In this kind of low-curve aggro deck he should shine.
Extra damage from Spear? What spear? Heliod's Spear? You're in the wrong neighborhood lol.
Thoughtseize needs to be in the SB. Period. It causes inconsistency if you are flat out trying to race another aggro/midrange deck and stop to Thoughtseize. Goes in against control.
I disagree on thoughtseize. It helps some against pretty much every deck. Hexproof? snag threat or enchantment. Aggro? Snag removal or critter. Midrange? Snag so many relevant cards. Burn? Take zealot, helix, some other relevant burn spell. Control? Take a wipe or wincon, revelation, counter spell. It's good enough in the mb.
I'm thinking by spear, he was thinking of searing spear. so I'm almost certain he meant lightning strike.
The snorlax demon is OP in aggressive decks. I whole heartedly agree with him in aggro. They don't get to draw a card until your upkeep, so you have a decent chance of getting in for 5 with him.
Master of the Feast is a 5/5 flyer on turn 3. If you're near winning or able to close the deal in the next turn or two the opponent's CA may not matter. In this kind of low-curve aggro deck he should shine.
Extra damage from Spear? What spear? Heliod's Spear? You're in the wrong neighborhood lol.
Thoughtseize needs to be in the SB. Period. It causes inconsistency if you are flat out trying to race another aggro/midrange deck and stop to Thoughtseize. Goes in against control.
I disagree on thoughtseize. It helps some against pretty much every deck. Hexproof? snag threat or enchantment. Aggro? Snag removal or critter. Midrange? Snag so many relevant cards. Burn? Take zealot, helix, some other relevant burn spell. Control? Take a wipe or wincon, revelation, counter spell. It's good enough in the mb.
I'm thinking by spear, he was thinking of searing spear. so I'm almost certain he meant lightning strike.
The snorlax demon is OP in aggressive decks. I whole heartedly agree with him in aggro. They don't get to draw a card until your upkeep, so you have a decent chance of getting in for 5 with him.
Yes I retract my statement on Thoughtseize in this case. It wasn't working out well in testing, but I was mostly testing against my friend's red aggro decks. So it performed decently, but it wasn't overwhelming. Against a low-curve red deck, ripping one threat didn't seem to make much of a difference. It's far better against midrange/control.
Not to nitpick but let's get the card names straight. I skipped playing standard while M13 was legal so when someone just says "spear" I have no idea what they are trying to say. Also, M13 has been out of Standard for almost a year
I actually think Master of the Feast is an incredible card for this type of deck. Essentially, have a removal option or lose. Period. You can't kill him with blockers easily without a Desecration Demon, as it is hard to impossible to get 5+ power that can hit a flier out that quickly. A lot of relevant removal spells don't work against him: Shock, Last Breath, Lightning Bolt, Mizzium Mortars, Bile Blight, Doom Blade, Anger of the Gods, Drown in Sorrows, etc.
So he's a win condition for an aggro deck that doesn't need one. Usually card advantage is a big deal but against an aggro deck the main resources are mana and life, not cards. He helps the aggro deck convert its mana into damage as quickly as possible, and the damage usually reduces the clock enough to prevent an opponent from stabilizing in my testing. Running against a similar deck, by far the strongest turn 3 move was a Master of the Feasts. He eats up the normal aggro deterrents (Anger of the Gods, Drown in Sorrow), and spending mana on targeted removal for him makes it hard to keep up a board presence. Consider:
I have a Drown in Sorrows, an Ultimate Price, a Pack Rat, and a Gnarled Scarhide in hand. I also have 1 Mutavault, 2 Swamps, and a Brain Maggot on the battlefield. He has a Master of the Feast, a Rakdos Cackler, and a Spike Jester on the battlefield.
There are no good answers here. If I kill the Master of the Feasts, he can rush in more Rakdos Shred-Freaks, Spike Jesters, or Legion Loyalists. If I wipe out his creatures I have a better turn 4+ option with the Pack Rat and Mutavault, but I might be low enough life for a second Master of the Feasts or Herald of Torment to finish me off. Sure, I might gain slight card advantage, but my options for winning have decreased significantly.
Thoughtseize in the board? You're going against the logic of just about anyone who has won anything with black aggro. You aren't bothered by the life loss, it is as cheap as it gets, and it is your best answer to cards like Supreme Verdict and Gray Mercahant, as well as just being a superb tool to set up your game-plan by hindering theirs and gaining information. It is the best black card in standard period. Aggro decks like this actually make the best use of pinpoint discard because your opponent has so little time to recover from it. And it's silly people are saying its bad with Master of the Feast, yes you will just give them cards back, but you still need to grab any removal they may have to clear the coast for him, especially if said removal is instant speed.
The reason Master of the Feast should be sb is because it's just plain lousy vs MBD as great as it may be in some other match ups.
I would max out on Herald of Torment especially before running any Desecration Demon as the Herald has or grants real evasion, not being pseudo chumpable like DD, provides a drop earlier on the curve which can be important, basically has a haste like ability with bestow and further protects you from Verdict in addition to Thoughtseize.
Thoughts?
4 thoughtseize is a must. Let's you beat control decks. There should also be lifebanes somewhere in the 75. He's too high impact not to run.
While I'm also not a fan of the OP's build, I'm going to throw out a few thoughts:
I don't know if I agree with this one. Against aggro/midrange, thoughtseize reads "B: pay 2 life, remove target threat." I've won countless aggro games simply because I snagged their caryatid and kept offense up, or snagged their polukranos leading them to a neutered turn three off solid acceleration. It's essentially super cheap removal, which allows you to stay on curve and apply pressure without giving up an entire turn for hero's downfall for another form of removal. When they do land a solid threat, you're now in range for mogis's marauder or hero's downfall/doomblade to clear the way for a big swing. Aside from that, it gives us a WAY better chance against the multitude of control decks running around the format. You are 100% guaranteed to play against monoblack and u/w in any meta right now, unless you're playing kitchen table. I realize you can draw it when you'd rather draw a threat, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. Thoughtseize is VERY rarely dead in hand for monoblack aggro.
Ignores text boxes and costs one mana, I'm using it for sure. If it's good enough for Owen Turtenwald's aggro, it's good enough for me.
I disagree on thoughtseize. It helps some against pretty much every deck. Hexproof? snag threat or enchantment. Aggro? Snag removal or critter. Midrange? Snag so many relevant cards. Burn? Take zealot, helix, some other relevant burn spell. Control? Take a wipe or wincon, revelation, counter spell. It's good enough in the mb.
I'm thinking by spear, he was thinking of searing spear. so I'm almost certain he meant lightning strike.
The snorlax demon is OP in aggressive decks. I whole heartedly agree with him in aggro. They don't get to draw a card until your upkeep, so you have a decent chance of getting in for 5 with him.
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Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Yes I retract my statement on Thoughtseize in this case. It wasn't working out well in testing, but I was mostly testing against my friend's red aggro decks. So it performed decently, but it wasn't overwhelming. Against a low-curve red deck, ripping one threat didn't seem to make much of a difference. It's far better against midrange/control.
Not to nitpick but let's get the card names straight. I skipped playing standard while M13 was legal so when someone just says "spear" I have no idea what they are trying to say. Also, M13 has been out of Standard for almost a year
So he's a win condition for an aggro deck that doesn't need one. Usually card advantage is a big deal but against an aggro deck the main resources are mana and life, not cards. He helps the aggro deck convert its mana into damage as quickly as possible, and the damage usually reduces the clock enough to prevent an opponent from stabilizing in my testing. Running against a similar deck, by far the strongest turn 3 move was a Master of the Feasts. He eats up the normal aggro deterrents (Anger of the Gods, Drown in Sorrow), and spending mana on targeted removal for him makes it hard to keep up a board presence. Consider:
I have a Drown in Sorrows, an Ultimate Price, a Pack Rat, and a Gnarled Scarhide in hand. I also have 1 Mutavault, 2 Swamps, and a Brain Maggot on the battlefield. He has a Master of the Feast, a Rakdos Cackler, and a Spike Jester on the battlefield.
There are no good answers here. If I kill the Master of the Feasts, he can rush in more Rakdos Shred-Freaks, Spike Jesters, or Legion Loyalists. If I wipe out his creatures I have a better turn 4+ option with the Pack Rat and Mutavault, but I might be low enough life for a second Master of the Feasts or Herald of Torment to finish me off. Sure, I might gain slight card advantage, but my options for winning have decreased significantly.
The reason Master of the Feast should be sb is because it's just plain lousy vs MBD as great as it may be in some other match ups.
I would max out on Herald of Torment especially before running any Desecration Demon as the Herald has or grants real evasion, not being pseudo chumpable like DD, provides a drop earlier on the curve which can be important, basically has a haste like ability with bestow and further protects you from Verdict in addition to Thoughtseize.