Once it's fleshed out I'll definitely do so. Things are still in flux at the moment and there's still cards on the horizon. The general idea's there, though.
Isn't more just better though? You might miss a land drop going to T5 or something. Or you could goldfish a T2 Caryatid T3 Peregrination T4 Dictate of Karametra T5 Epic Experiment for 9 (10 from lands, 1 from Caryatid). There isn't a lot of depth in RUG Instants/Sorceries that I can see, especially with a card like Epic Experiment that requires you to play awkward things. So to that degree, it seems worth testing. Unlike the Colossus approach, Epic Experiment doesn't really have a set cap that "wins the game" (unless I'm missing something). You could always just hit a bunch of ******* lands and non-gas cards.
How would you slot the 30+ spells anyways? I'm just at a loss how to flesh out that build (even if the Colossus build seems cleaner).
Pretty much everything that isn't ramp is going to be card draw that just so happens to dump a bunch of cards into the yard. Think Izzet Charm, Steam Augury, and Whispering Madness. Yes, I realized Madness requires a black mana source. The numbers I've been running indicate that I can get one consistently without straining my manabase too much. Thank you based god Mana Confluence. Plus, it's actually critical to my plans. You see, my goal is to use Epic Experiment to draw a bunch of cards into my hand while simultaneously dumping a bunch of cards into my yard. Once I've got enough cards in my hand, Whispering Madness will give my opponent an enormous amount of cards in both their hand and graveyard. More than enough, certainly, for me to kill them with a Psychic Spiral.
i've only skimmed the thread so apologies if this has been shot down already but has anyone considered using enter the infinite + the riddle of lightning reprint for the kill? mainphase enter the infinite after an eot dictate, leave an enter the infinite on top, next upkeep riddle them twice (10 mana of your 12) for 24 damage, you'd have mana for a negate or two dispels or something too. prophet of kruphix could accelerate the kill to their upkeep, and while i wouldn't want to base a combo deck around an unprotected creature, the riddle combo doesn't take up a ton of cards, you could probably find some room for some "answer me or you die even quicker" cards
it might not be worth going for considering you'd be giving your opponent an entire turn with double mana to react, might be better as a sideboard plan against control along with some boarded in dispels
I think that I am going to try out Debt to the Deathless instead of my creature suite. It will only need 1 white source to use and it wins in 1 turn. The only problem is that white doesn't really have anything else for this deck.
Debt to the Deathless, Mana Confluence, and Diabolic Tutor have all been working out really well in my version. The deck is even more consistent before and can actually win on turn 6 without acceleration instead of turn 7. Here is my current version.
thanks for sharing your list with us ! This looks like a good start. I have one question:
Turn 5 you cast Dictate of Karametra. Turn 6 you play another land, now you got 6 lands to draw yourself 12 mana into your pool.
You use it all to cast Debt to the Deathless (assuming you have all the right ones in play you need)
Cost: XWWBB so X will be 8 and the opponent will loose 16 life and you will get 16.
In the Deck Description you are talking 32 damage / life loss on turn 6.
Please explain how you do that?
I think it might be difficult to get the extra 4 damage for the win with Omenspeaker.
It is a 32 point life swing. 16 life lost+16 life gained. The extra damage is something that I am still working on. I might be dropping blue and going into red for Magma Jet instead of Omnespeaker. However, it is possible to get a second Debt in the next couple of turns that you will have bought yourself with the life swing. And decks playing Thoughtseize, Underworld Connections, Mana Confluence, and/or shockklands will be losing enough life for Debt to be lethal.
Ok I see now what you mend. Have you considered Dimir Keyrune ? They ramp and you can deal the last damage with them. But this might be a little fragil because it enables their removal spells.
That is a good suggestion. Of course it would involve cutting Sylvan Caryatid, which might not be the best idea.
Keep blue if only for Hidden Strings. For every copy of Strings we have in hand when Dictate is on the field we can go off using one fewer land.
If Dictate is on the field and you have 6 lands and a Strings in hand, tap 6 lands for 12 mana, play Strings for 2 mana, untap two lands and then tap said lands for mana to hit 14. We can do the same at 5 lands with two copies of Strings. In addition to being a pseudo-ritual, it can keep us alive early game if we absolutely need to do so.
EDIT: Random thought, but I'm pretty sure this is the best deck you could humanly play in a Standard 2-Headed Giant event, lol.
Keep blue if only for Hidden Strings. For every copy of Strings we have in hand when Dictate is on the field we can go off using one fewer land.
If Dictate is on the field and you have 6 lands and a Strings in hand, tap 6 lands for 12 mana, play Strings for 2 mana, untap two lands and then tap said lands for mana to hit 14. We can do the same at 5 lands with two copies of Strings. In addition to being a pseudo-ritual, it can keep us alive early game if we absolutely need to do so.
I am not using Hidden Strings. I would, but currently the nonessential cards that are in my deck are Dimir Charm, Jace, and Sylvan Caryatid. Sylvan Caryatid allows me to cast a turn 4 Dictate. Jace is another dig spell and prevents some aggro damage. Dimir Charm is just an all around useful spell that kills many of the creatures in Standard (Nightveil Specter, Master of Waves, Frostburn Weird, Cloudfin Raptor, Ash Zealot, Courser of Kruphix, Elvish Mystic, Deathrite Shaman) while countering some important spells (Thoughtseize, Commune with the Gods) and digging for cards/runing your opponents scrying and topdecks. However, I am thinking of replacing Jace with Kiora.
After thinking about it, I think I'm going to go back to the original plan of Satyr + Follower + Strings but replace the Epic package with Debt. I want to go off as early as possible and having multiple untap effects increases my ability to do so.
i've been goldfishing valanarch's debt list with peregrination instead of kiora or jace (no opinion on which is correct yet) and i think it's been going very well. i'm wondering if blue is worth ditching in favor of red, magma jets and lightning strikes can make this a way more consistent t6 kill, i think the only thing blue really has going for it in this iteration is dimir charm and don't get me wrong dimir charm is sweet, but i'm going to be testing a BGRw variant sometime soon
as of this moment i think debt is probably the most boring kill but also the most likely to succeed
sylvan caryatid has seemed pretty lackluster imo. i think courser would be better but i'm worried that turning on your opponent's removal might be a bad idea. i should probably test sylvan in actual matchups before complaining though
i've been goldfishing valanarch's debt list with peregrination instead of kiora or jace (no opinion on which is correct yet) and i think it's been going very well. i'm wondering if blue is worth ditching in favor of red, magma jets and lightning strikes can make this a way more consistent t6 kill, i think the only thing blue really has going for it in this iteration is dimir charm and don't get me wrong dimir charm is sweet, but i'm going to be testing a BGRw variant sometime soon
as of this moment i think debt is probably the most boring kill but also the most likely to succeed
sylvan caryatid has seemed pretty lackluster imo. i think courser would be better but i'm worried that turning on your opponent's removal might be a bad idea. i should probably test sylvan in actual matchups before complaining though
I personally am testing the list but without any 4 drops and instead running 2 Drown in Sorrows and a 4th Sylvan Caryaitd. I agree about the BGRw version.
Font seems like it is going to be very painful for us to play, manabase wise. We are 4 colors already and shocking every turn until t3 or so is not really what we want to be doing I don't think. I take it most everyone is playing a BUG shell Splashing white for Debt only? If so, how are you staying alive against aggro with only 4 Dimir Charms?
Font seems like it is going to be very painful for us to play, manabase wise. We are 4 colors already and shocking every turn until t3 or so is not really what we want to be doing I don't think. I take it most everyone is playing a BUG shell Splashing white for Debt only? If so, how are you staying alive against aggro with only 4 Dimir Charms?
At the moment it looks like I'm actually going to be UG with a tiny splash for W and B. I'm still waiting until we have the full spoiler until I finalize anything, however.
The problem then is how do you win if your Epic Experiment gets countered ? Azorius Control is still a deck and, just for reference, I run 6 counterspells main deck and 4 more in the board. I think you need another win con besides Epic Experiment, is what I'm trying to say, especially since Thoughtseize is still a thing.
Don't worry about it anymore, LOL. We're playing around with Debt to the Deathless now instead of Epic Experiment.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
I like that idea.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Thanks for reminding me about that card. I had forgotten that it exists.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
no real decklist yet but my .5th draft would be like
4x riddle of lightning
4x enter the infinite
4x dictate of karametra
2x prophet of kruphix??
3x kruphix's insight?? maybe commune with the gods
4x izzet charm? not sure on the numbers but i'd say 4x for now
1x elixir of immortality in case something goes wrong i guess? not sure where this would be useful, maybe if they untap and destroy your dictate
//maybe other control cards, burn etc.
//maybe ramp, peregrination?
//maybe just like divinations, dictate of kruphix? there are multiples ways you could approach the filler
26ish lands??
it might not be worth going for considering you'd be giving your opponent an entire turn with double mana to react, might be better as a sideboard plan against control along with some boarded in dispels
omniscience Enter the infinite Release the ants Emrakul, The aeons torn Combo.
But this is Standard legal.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
http://www.mtgvault.com/soulofmirrodin/decks/the-combo-deck/
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
It is a 32 point life swing. 16 life lost+16 life gained. The extra damage is something that I am still working on. I might be dropping blue and going into red for Magma Jet instead of Omnespeaker. However, it is possible to get a second Debt in the next couple of turns that you will have bought yourself with the life swing. And decks playing Thoughtseize, Underworld Connections, Mana Confluence, and/or shockklands will be losing enough life for Debt to be lethal.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
That is a good suggestion. Of course it would involve cutting Sylvan Caryatid, which might not be the best idea.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
If Dictate is on the field and you have 6 lands and a Strings in hand, tap 6 lands for 12 mana, play Strings for 2 mana, untap two lands and then tap said lands for mana to hit 14. We can do the same at 5 lands with two copies of Strings. In addition to being a pseudo-ritual, it can keep us alive early game if we absolutely need to do so.
EDIT: Random thought, but I'm pretty sure this is the best deck you could humanly play in a Standard 2-Headed Giant event, lol.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
I am not using Hidden Strings. I would, but currently the nonessential cards that are in my deck are Dimir Charm, Jace, and Sylvan Caryatid. Sylvan Caryatid allows me to cast a turn 4 Dictate. Jace is another dig spell and prevents some aggro damage. Dimir Charm is just an all around useful spell that kills many of the creatures in Standard (Nightveil Specter, Master of Waves, Frostburn Weird, Cloudfin Raptor, Ash Zealot, Courser of Kruphix, Elvish Mystic, Deathrite Shaman) while countering some important spells (Thoughtseize, Commune with the Gods) and digging for cards/runing your opponents scrying and topdecks. However, I am thinking of replacing Jace with Kiora.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
as of this moment i think debt is probably the most boring kill but also the most likely to succeed
sylvan caryatid has seemed pretty lackluster imo. i think courser would be better but i'm worried that turning on your opponent's removal might be a bad idea. i should probably test sylvan in actual matchups before complaining though
I personally am testing the list but without any 4 drops and instead running 2 Drown in Sorrows and a 4th Sylvan Caryaitd. I agree about the BGRw version.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
At the moment it looks like I'm actually going to be UG with a tiny splash for W and B. I'm still waiting until we have the full spoiler until I finalize anything, however.
Don't worry about it anymore, LOL. We're playing around with Debt to the Deathless now instead of Epic Experiment.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0