Clever Impersonator - this pulls double duty as well, cloning any on-the-board opponent threats (oh, you have a Ugin, the Spirit Dragon? Interesting...so do I) or searching for our one-of Whip of Erebos. It's a tasty burger.
Duress and Despise - strip our opponent of answers. Why not Thoughtseize? Too expensive (in monetary cost). You could easily add it and free up some sideboard slots. Shares CMC with Swan Song.
Polluted Delta - I need four of these, but only have two. These fetching beauties fuel delve for hardcasting Treasure Cruise and the like, as well as thinning our deck. I'll pay the life, thanks very much!
Temple of Deceit - so tasty with our deck, it helps us with ordering and such. I only run two, as I find that four is a bit redundant with the Scheming base.
Well, that isn't strictly true, but there is certainly no traditional removal. Long story short, it runs against our game plan. We want to play as much of a PROACTIVE game as possible with this deck. We are creating a BIG four-drop threat and swinging to win. It's an aggro strategy slowed somewhat by mana constraints. Not quite mid-game, but very close.
What about match ups?
Burn is going to hurt us. Our strategy is similar to many control decks in that we want a big threat with good evasion. Our clock, however, is not 4-5 turns, but 2. Once our threat is unleashed, we are looking at TWO turns to GG.
Dragon decks will be challenging, though not an unscalable mountain. Look to side in the Disdainful Strokes, as well as the third (and maybe a fourth?) Clever impersonator. I've thought about removal just for this case, but keep coming back to the fact that we have Dragons in our deck...as soon as they play one! Also, Fated Return can bring back our Clever Impersonators. This can be DEVASTATING in any number of ways.
Clever Impersonator is the answer to most of their threats in the form of creatures. I think it is just a really underrated card.
G/W or Mono Green Devotion shouldn't be awful. We need to control the tempo and make our goal to get to that big threat. Side in the In Garruk's Wakes, Swan Songs, and Disdainful Strokes and deal PAIN to these decks.
Playing with this deck for a while and looking for what hands to mulligan is key. Look to have a discard outlet, a Clever Impersonator or a Living Lore, and three-ish mana. If you have these things, coupled with Taigam's Scheming, you likely win.
I have had a BLAST brewing this deck and thinking about the standard meta with it. Leave me some comments! Love to hear what thoughts you have.
What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
I hasten to add that this deck falls in sub-$100. Budget fun times!
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What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
Um, thanks. But it isn't really designed as a "budget" brew. It just sort of happened. So it'd be great if you moved it back. Just because something happens to fall into a category doesn't mean it should go there. I would imagine that it will get far fewer views when viewed this way, and it will also not get the feedback that I would like to get.
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What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
Would you mind shifting this back? I don't want the whole deck viewed in a "budget" light. I'd like to get feedback on it from all angles, and limiting it to budget will limit the feedback.
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What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
Looks pretty cool. I don't like the Murk Lurker though. Sharing a CMC with your Siege is unimportant, because there are plenty of cards that do that and with only 2 of them in your deck it's obviously not that important. Otherwise it's a 2/4 for 3 that gives something lifelink sometimes. Lifelink is not that important. It's great to have, sure, but not so good it's worth running bad cards just to get. I'd cut it and add 2 lands. You're trying to run 2 Fated Returns with only 23 land. You want 25 minimum, maybe even 26. I'd be adding the other 2 Polluted Deltas. You have so many delve cards, but aren't running the full 4 fetches.
Thanks for the suggestions. The purpose in Fated Return is not to hard cast it. I've never hard casted it with the deck in playtesting, and I don't even think to do it. Kind of the same things for Dead Drop. I'm not looking to hard cast most of these large cards, and with Taigam's Scheming as well as Grave Strength, the 'yard fills up pretty fast with big instants/sorceries. Jorubai Murk Lurker is a cheaper lifelink provider, which is arguably important in a meta that runs 4-drop dragons. Lifelinking itself or even a Disciple could be game changing, especially following strengthening. But maybe some other kind of evasion is useful.
The full set of deltas is going in. I'm hesitant to run a ton of lands though. The last thing this wants is mana flood. (But then again, mana screw is bad too...)
What do you think of Silumgar Sorcerer in that 3-drop slot instead? I think the evasion that the sieges provides is really useful for the lores.
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What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
Looks like cool brew. I had been thinking about working with Living Lore + any reanimation spell as you can literally keep cycling both infinite off each other.
One thing to point out though is that Swan Song isn't as good as you think it is. It can't counter creatures, artifacts, or planeswalkers. The best counterspell in standard right now is probably Silumgar's Scorn.
What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
Thanks for the suggestions. The purpose in Fated Return is not to hard cast it. I've never hard casted it with the deck in playtesting, and I don't even think to do it. Kind of the same things for Dead Drop. I'm not looking to hard cast most of these large cards, and with Taigam's Scheming as well as Grave Strength, the 'yard fills up pretty fast with big instants/sorceries. Jorubai Murk Lurker is a cheaper lifelink provider, which is arguably important in a meta that runs 4-drop dragons. Lifelinking itself or even a Disciple could be game changing, especially following strengthening. But maybe some other kind of evasion is useful.
The full set of deltas is going in. I'm hesitant to run a ton of lands though. The last thing this wants is mana flood. (But then again, mana screw is bad too...)
What do you think of Silumgar Sorcerer in that 3-drop slot instead? I think the evasion that the sieges provides is really useful for the lores.
Playing cards you intend on never casting just seems like a bad plan. With Dead Drop you can at least pay the delve cost with all your graveyard interactions and play it, but having a Fated Return in your opener in this deck pretty much means you've basically mulliganed already, because you've got a useless card in hand. Why not just play Murderous Cut in its spot? Sure, it's 2 less mana, but you've already got Drops, Cruises and Digs, all of which are already bigger than the Return, and all of which are actually playable, and adding Cut gives you more removal as well as an additional OK target for your Lores, which you could then sac to kill something else. I just really, really don't like the idea of running a card you never intend on actually casting and, in fact, even believe you can't cast.
Silumgar Sorceror seems like a perfectly reasonable option, in my opinion.
I posted a Sultai version of this a couple weeks back. Definitely need more whips. Also Temporal Trespass is pretty clutch too. Overall, fun but a lot of cards that are depending on Living Lore to use.
Playing cards you intend on never casting just seems like a bad plan. With Dead Drop you can at least pay the delve cost with all your graveyard interactions and play it, but having a Fated Return in your opener in this deck pretty much means you've basically mulliganed already, because you've got a useless card in hand. Why not just play Murderous Cut in its spot? Sure, it's 2 less mana, but you've already got Drops, Cruises and Digs, all of which are already bigger than the Return, and all of which are actually playable, and adding Cut gives you more removal as well as an additional OK target for your Lores, which you could then sac to kill something else. I just really, really don't like the idea of running a card you never intend on actually casting and, in fact, even believe you can't cast.
I've played with the idea of Cut as well, though Return is the strategy around which this particular build is built. Return is slow; granted. But it gets in the yard fast, and having it right away isn't a snap mulligan as it is able to be discarded to Disciple and Siege. I'm not saying it isn't possible to hard cast it, but as I often don't cast the Dead Drops I run either, I don't worry too much about it. This isn't to say it isn't a possibility or an option, but it isn't the primary game plan. I feel like the deck is designed to be a play-your-own-game sort of deck, eschewing most interaction outside combat situations. The size of Return is relevant, but not as relevant as returningLore as an indestructible 8/8 to 10/10.
But hey, you don't have to run it. Thanks as always for the input!
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What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
maybe im crazy, but i dont see any sieges providing evasion. Not only that, but you have absolutely no evasion. I feel you need at least trample.
Yep, you are right. I'm not thinking evasion as the keyword ability, but the ability to evade the opponent's spells. Perhaps 'target prevention' is better? I don't know - what is the wording for the Dragons ability of Monastery Siege?
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What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
I posted a Sultai version of this a couple weeks back. Definitely need more whips. Also Temporal Trespass is pretty clutch too. Overall, fun but a lot of cards that are depending on Living Lore to use.
I feel like the Whips take up valuable slots in the deck. I can search for a Whip by Scheming or Disciple for Clever Impersonator or even extra Living Lore. Maybe two would be nice, but I feel even that pushes it. One-of feels right. But I'll experiment with it, and I encourage you to do the same!
You are definitely making me rethink Trespass. I don't like the exile if we decide to hard cast it, and I hate the UUU in the cost. I really don't like to tie up that mana... But, I'm going to play test it later! What were your thoughts on Worst Fears? Harder to hard cast, but it's Trespass with a gigantic upside.
Send me a copy of your list! I'd love to see it.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
about Worst Fears - it relies upon your opponent having a good deck. Could be clutch, but i'd rather have the Trespass
Really? You don't think that even versus a bad deck this could be useful? At worst, you pass their turn doing nothing. At best you waste their hand on a bunch of crap choices, swing in with their creatures to no avail, tap them for whatever abilities affecting the most meager of permanents, whatever.
Trespass is nice as one could hard cast it with relative ease. I need to get out and play some Standard with this!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What do I play? Well, a lot of stuff. But I LOVE PRISON DECKS.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
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6x Swamp
9x Island
2x Polluted Delta
2x Temple of Deceit
3x Dismal Backwater
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures (11)
2x Jorubai Murk Lurker
2x Clever Impersonator
3x Disciple of Deceit
4x Living Lore
2x Dead Drop
2x Dig Through Time
4x Duress
2x Fated Return
2x Grave Strength
2x Swan Song
4x Taigam's Scheming
3x Treasure Cruise
Enchantments (4)
4x Monastery Siege
Artifacts (1)
1x Whip of Erebos
1x Clever Impersonator
1x Clone Legion
2x Despise
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Hypnotic Siren
1x Icefall Regent
2x In Garruk's Wake
1x Silumgar's Command
2x Swan Song
1x Worst Fears
What time is it? It's brew-thirty.
Taigam's Scheming + Living Lore Combo/Aggro Deck
What's in it?
Spells:
Taigam's Scheming - this is the main discard outlet. It's as good as Scry 5 for our purposes, with the added advantage of filling the yard.
Living Lore - Our beatstick. We want it with lifelink, hence...
Whip of Erebos - Lifelinks our Living Lore and other creatures
Jorubai Murk Lurker - Another lifelink outlet, and also a search outlet for Disciple of Deceit to net us Monastery Siege.
Disciple of Deceit - this provides a secondary discard outlet AND a card search. Shares CMC with Grave Strength.
Clever Impersonator - this pulls double duty as well, cloning any on-the-board opponent threats (oh, you have a Ugin, the Spirit Dragon? Interesting...so do I) or searching for our one-of Whip of Erebos. It's a tasty burger.
Monastery Siege - provides a tertiary discard outlet or a permanent spell evasion, as well as sharing CMC with Jorubai Murk Lurker.
Grave Strength - not only another discard outlet, but also a pump for whatever creature is available. Really good with a lonesome Disciple of Deceit or Jorubai Murk Lurker. The ultimate with Living Lore + Dead Drop after a Fated Return. Live the dream!
Duress and Despise - strip our opponent of answers. Why not Thoughtseize? Too expensive (in monetary cost). You could easily add it and free up some sideboard slots. Shares CMC with Swan Song.
Swan Song - the least expensive counterspell in the format. I don't care about giving you a bird if I'm getting rid of your Mastery of the Unseen, Whip of Erebos, or ferocious Stubborn Denial, much less your Collected Company or whatever Command you are running. I'm not limited like I am with Stubborn Denial (though I do love me some Stubborn D).
Dead Drop, Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, and other big spells including Fated Return - these BIG our Living Lore, and make him mega gross. I've included different variations in the sideboard for other possible fun times. One notable omission is Temporal Trespass. In this case, I feel that Worst Fears is strictly better for use with Living Lore.
Mana Base:
Polluted Delta - I need four of these, but only have two. These fetching beauties fuel delve for hardcasting Treasure Cruise and the like, as well as thinning our deck. I'll pay the life, thanks very much!
Temple of Deceit - so tasty with our deck, it helps us with ordering and such. I only run two, as I find that four is a bit redundant with the Scheming base.
Dismal Backwater - There's nothing quite like having open a dual land for Duress and/or Swan Song. Double trouble!
Why no removal?
Well, that isn't strictly true, but there is certainly no traditional removal. Long story short, it runs against our game plan. We want to play as much of a PROACTIVE game as possible with this deck. We are creating a BIG four-drop threat and swinging to win. It's an aggro strategy slowed somewhat by mana constraints. Not quite mid-game, but very close.
What about match ups?
Burn is going to hurt us. Our strategy is similar to many control decks in that we want a big threat with good evasion. Our clock, however, is not 4-5 turns, but 2. Once our threat is unleashed, we are looking at TWO turns to GG.
Dragon decks will be challenging, though not an unscalable mountain. Look to side in the Disdainful Strokes, as well as the third (and maybe a fourth?) Clever impersonator. I've thought about removal just for this case, but keep coming back to the fact that we have Dragons in our deck...as soon as they play one! Also, Fated Return can bring back our Clever Impersonators. This can be DEVASTATING in any number of ways.
Clever Impersonator is the answer to most of their threats in the form of creatures. I think it is just a really underrated card.
G/W or Mono Green Devotion shouldn't be awful. We need to control the tempo and make our goal to get to that big threat. Side in the In Garruk's Wakes, Swan Songs, and Disdainful Strokes and deal PAIN to these decks.
Playing with this deck for a while and looking for what hands to mulligan is key. Look to have a discard outlet, a Clever Impersonator or a Living Lore, and three-ish mana. If you have these things, coupled with Taigam's Scheming, you likely win.
I have had a BLAST brewing this deck and thinking about the standard meta with it. Leave me some comments! Love to hear what thoughts you have.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
The full set of deltas is going in. I'm hesitant to run a ton of lands though. The last thing this wants is mana flood. (But then again, mana screw is bad too...)
What do you think of Silumgar Sorcerer in that 3-drop slot instead? I think the evasion that the sieges provides is really useful for the lores.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
One thing to point out though is that Swan Song isn't as good as you think it is. It can't counter creatures, artifacts, or planeswalkers. The best counterspell in standard right now is probably Silumgar's Scorn.
I may have been twisting up my Disdainful Strokes. Corrected.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
I may have been twisting up my Disdainful Strokes. Corrected.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
Playing cards you intend on never casting just seems like a bad plan. With Dead Drop you can at least pay the delve cost with all your graveyard interactions and play it, but having a Fated Return in your opener in this deck pretty much means you've basically mulliganed already, because you've got a useless card in hand. Why not just play Murderous Cut in its spot? Sure, it's 2 less mana, but you've already got Drops, Cruises and Digs, all of which are already bigger than the Return, and all of which are actually playable, and adding Cut gives you more removal as well as an additional OK target for your Lores, which you could then sac to kill something else. I just really, really don't like the idea of running a card you never intend on actually casting and, in fact, even believe you can't cast.
Silumgar Sorceror seems like a perfectly reasonable option, in my opinion.
I've played with the idea of Cut as well, though Return is the strategy around which this particular build is built. Return is slow; granted. But it gets in the yard fast, and having it right away isn't a snap mulligan as it is able to be discarded to Disciple and Siege. I'm not saying it isn't possible to hard cast it, but as I often don't cast the Dead Drops I run either, I don't worry too much about it. This isn't to say it isn't a possibility or an option, but it isn't the primary game plan. I feel like the deck is designed to be a play-your-own-game sort of deck, eschewing most interaction outside combat situations. The size of Return is relevant, but not as relevant as returning Lore as an indestructible 8/8 to 10/10.
But hey, you don't have to run it. Thanks as always for the input!
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
Yep, you are right. I'm not thinking evasion as the keyword ability, but the ability to evade the opponent's spells. Perhaps 'target prevention' is better? I don't know - what is the wording for the Dragons ability of Monastery Siege?
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
I feel like the Whips take up valuable slots in the deck. I can search for a Whip by Scheming or Disciple for Clever Impersonator or even extra Living Lore. Maybe two would be nice, but I feel even that pushes it. One-of feels right. But I'll experiment with it, and I encourage you to do the same!
You are definitely making me rethink Trespass. I don't like the exile if we decide to hard cast it, and I hate the UUU in the cost. I really don't like to tie up that mana... But, I'm going to play test it later! What were your thoughts on Worst Fears? Harder to hard cast, but it's Trespass with a gigantic upside.
Send me a copy of your list! I'd love to see it.
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War
Really? You don't think that even versus a bad deck this could be useful? At worst, you pass their turn doing nothing. At best you waste their hand on a bunch of crap choices, swing in with their creatures to no avail, tap them for whatever abilities affecting the most meager of permanents, whatever.
Trespass is nice as one could hard cast it with relative ease. I need to get out and play some Standard with this!
Standard - Esper Acquisition Control, Mardu Spawn Aggro (for funsies)
Modern - Mono-green Control, Artifact Prison, Wx Enchantment Prison, whatever strikes my fancy at the moment
Legacy - Manaless Dredge, High Tide, recently Pox, The Antiquities War