I figured I'd start a new thread since my initial idea (G/B Formidable) has evolved into something very different. Additional input would always be appreciated.
The basic premise behind the deck is to utilize the Den Protector and Deathmist Raptor engine. Grim Haruspex adds additional synergy both in generating card advantage as well as providing an additional (and cheaper) morph trigger for Deathmist. The deck is a pretty aggressive midrange deck, providing plenty of explosiveness when needed while also being capable of disrupting the opponent's board fairly regularly.
I've been play testing this pretty heavily on MTGO and this decklist has been tweaked based on those results. I am looking forward to testing it out at the next game store tourney. If nothing else it is a lot of fun to play, especially when you sideboard in a bunch of hate.
imo im not a fan of Merciless Executionerat all.. i get hes good for control, but i think you get better value of a package like duress and thoughtsieze. also the xtra whip in SB seems a bit much. which dens/deathmist you have a pretty good way of bringing cards back already so I defiantly don't think a 3rd is necessary. other wise looks like a pretty cool deck!
Interesting points. The extra whip is probably overkill, but it could be nice to bring in a game where I absolutely need to land a whip. I went 2-2 last night with both of my losses being incredibly close. Self-Inflicted wound was the hero of the night for me, clinching the win in my last game. I'd like to get a few more game nights in with the deck how it is.
You should consider Collected Company. It hits everything in this deck and gives you a turn 4 play instead of just removal. Seems like a perfect fit to me. Warden of the First Tree is probably a better and stronger card than Servant of the Scale too.
Collected Company is definitely on my radar. I do like Warden, but I also like how Servant of the Scale pumps up Avatar of the Resolute plus it passes on its +1/+1 counter when it leaves the battlefield. I do like how Warden can grow into a much bigger threat (assuming the card lasts that long). It would be an easy swap for play testing though.
Updated deck list to the copy I'm currently play testing. Ruthless Ripper has been added in place of Servant of the Scale which I feel is a much better fit for the deck, adding another trigger for bringing back Deathmist Raptor. Causing my opponent to lose two life is a nice added bonus too.
I'm definitely leaning that way. If I do, I'll more than likely need to bring in a card like Windstorm to deal with the flyers that are very relevant in this format. Not sure if I would put it in the main or leave it in the side though.
I've also been kicking around the idea of sideboarding Stain the Mind. Could be a fun way of completely disrupting other decks and their win conditions. So a possible revised sideboard would look like:
So far these changes have yielded very positive results and provide more consistent answers in the current meta (both online and at my local game store). I'll be piloting this version at my local store tournament on Tuesday. I'm really enjoying Ruthless Ripper in this deck and am glad to have made that change.
Stain the Mind doesn't seem particularly good because the decks in the current meta have a whole lot of redundancy, partly because Thoughtsieze is still a thing. Even the control decks have a reasonable number of finishers.
I've been liking it in play testing. While there may be a lot of redundancy, it is an effective card still against many match ups. Removing an opponents Den Protector, Collected Company, or Rally the Ancestors, while not game winning in of itself, is disrupting enough to make it a pretty big impact.
Is it the best card out there? certainly not. Will I try out something else eventually? More than likely haha.
Ok, this will probably be the last update to this deck without fundamentally changing the way it plays. The biggest problem I've experienced has been mana issues. I've wanted to avoid adding in Elvish Mystic, but I feel it is a necessity now. To make room for three copies, I have eliminated 1x Ruthless Ripper plus moved 1x Thoughtseize and 1x Archfiend of Depravity to the sideboard. Stain the Mind has been dropped, despite it being a fun card to play. The mana dorks will allow me to accelerate my board state and with cards like Grim Haruspex, I can get value out of them later on.
As far future sideboard cards, Ainok Survivalist is on the radar as a possible replacement card for Reclamation Sage since the morph synergy fits in, but I don't think it is a necessary tweak at the moment.
Results from my first pilot of this new version in a Standard Daily.
Game 1- R/B Aggro (2-0)
Rd 1- Took me down to two life before I landed a whip and stabilized the board. Their deck relied heavily on the dash mechanic, but Raptors and Rakshasa kept it in check overal.
Rd 2- Mulligan to 6, tough battle but Surrak and Deathmist stabilized the board enough with Ruthless Ripper coming in for the win. I didn't see much in the realm or removal from my opponent, but a Stoke the Flames or Lightning Bolt would have made a world of difference.
Game 2- Mardu Dragons (2-0)
Rd 1- Whip was key again. Between the multiple thunderbreak regents mid game and plenty of burn spells, it took me a while to establish a board. Finally started getting my removal spells mid game and a late game ultimate price took care of monstrous stormbreath for the win.
Rd 2- Sideboarded in more removal including Merciless Executioner. 3 thunderbreaks fairly early on were dealt with quickly. Opponent couldn't get back into the game.
Game 3- Sidisi Whip (0-2)
Rd 1- Tough start. Opponent was able to establish a better board state early on. It is definitely a cool deck and one that I've thought of trying out.
Rd 2- Had to mulligan to 5 in order to get any land in hand and then didn't see a 3rd land until turn 6. 4th land on turn 9. I was surprised I lasted that long, but it was too little way too late. These games happen, but it is disappointing to not get in a proper game.
Game 4- Abzan Midrange (0-2)
Rd 1- On the play. Thoughtsiezed an elspeth (2 in hand). Baited fleecemain Lion with a morph'd Ripper. Stuck on 3 lands. Turn 8 get 4th land. No removal to deal with elspeth. Eventual loss to an army of tokens.
Rd 2- Mulligan to 5 again, this time with no land. Gotta love that MTGO shuffler. Once again the opponent had 2 Elspeths and what little removal I had was too little too late. By the time I had enough land to cast anything, there were 10 tokens out. Another disappointing loss.
Overall I feel that this version of the deck is significantly stronger. Sideboarding is harder simply because every card has a value. I'm not terribly happy with going 2-2, but that's mostly because of the manner of loss. It happens though. Elvish Mystic didn't really see play, but when it did my opponent usually targeted for immediate removal which is fine.
Elvish Mystic has advantages in both fixing mana and accelerating my board state (turn 2 Raptor, turn 3 Surrak in an ideal hand). The ability to chump block is a later game bonus, especially with Grim Haruspex in play.
Bloodsoaked Champion provides a very aggressive start and is a reoccurring threat. Biggest con is that it can't block, but it does force an opponent to deal with him, several times in most cases.
I've started play testing both versions and it is a tough call. I do like the acceleration that mystic brings to the table and being stuck on 2 swamps and 1 forest really kills my ability to stabilize the board.
That being said, the early game aggression from Bloodsoaked Champion can be super helpful. The graveyard recursion is an added bonus.
I feel like Mystic is the best choice in that situation. If you were playing warriors then that would be a different story but as of now the things mystic can do are just a lot better than the things Bloodsoaked can.
Aside from the fact that mystic for sure eats a removal spell which saves your later creatures, and champion just gets chump blocked all day or can't get over most of the dominant blockers in abzan,g/r, etc.
Very true. I thought a lot more about it and still lean towards mystic the most. I don't love the card by any means but in order to utilize champion more, I'd have to probably switch out more of my deck to include cards like Blood-Chin Rager. My Tuesday tournament will be a good proving ground for the current build. There is another guy at my local shop that runs a more aggro oriented G/B build that I have bounced ideas off of. We have a lot of similarities, but his includes cards like Silumgar Assassin and Pitiless Horde. I'll see if I can get a deck list for his build since we both took very similar yet very different approaches to the same colors and Raptor engine.
Me and a buddy of mine began brewing a new idea to combat our local meta, which is filled with both extremes of control and fast aggro. We were expecting a lot of Atarka Red and Esper Dragons so the challenge of being innovative and fresh would prove difficult.
So the idea behind the deck was to generate immense card advantage by using manifest and morph to swing the control matches way in our favor. The deck was designed to be very resilient vs mass removal, spot removal, and counterspell.
Cards, like Sultai Emissary, gives the deck an edge against aggressive aggro strategies, and Ruthless Ripper gains a lot of early tempo for the deck to stabilize.
After a few hours of brewing, we sleeved it up for its first test run at a store vs store event. Here are the results:
4 Rounds, Swiss
Match 1 - Atarka Red ( 0-1)
Game 1: Game was pretty fast, due to double Goblin Rabblemaster. I couldn't stabilize quick enough.
Game 2: Much like Game 1, double Rabblemaster. I had a Bile Blight in my opening hand, but just couldn't get my second black source of mana. If I had I easily had control of the game, as he overextended.
Match 2 - Atarka Red (1-1)
Game 1: I start off with a Ruthless Ripper, which keeps his Zurgo from attacking, buying me a few turns to stabilize. I overwhelmed him with Deathmist Raptors and Den Protectors. He was never able to maintain a board presence.
Game 2: I board in 2 Drown in Sorrow, 1 Bile Blight, 2 Duress, and 2 Hornet's Nest. I side out 3 Ruthless Ripper, 1 Mystic, 1 Wildcall, and 2 Whisperwood Elemental. He overextends into a Drown in Sorrow, and I flood the board with raptors and Den Protectors.
Match 3 - Esper Dragons (2-1)
Game 1: I come out the gate with triple Raptor, due to a third turn Collected Company. He couldn't keep up, and I easily stole the game.
Game 2: He locks me out with Perilous Vault and Ugin. I couldn't keep up at this point.
Game 3: He mulligans to 3, to my relief. I chain Duresses with Den protectors to seal the deal.
Match 4 - Esper Dragons (3-1)
Game 1: I rush him with raptors and Sultai Emissary. He kills both Emissary and Raptor, and I morph over a Hooded Hydra for 2 mana. He couldn't keep pace, afterwards.
Game 2: He uses Ashiok to steal a Whisperwood Elemental. I follow with my own, and he ends up milling me with Ashiok. Game took forever. I at least managed to get him down to 5, before losing, despite the heavy disadvantage.
Game 3: I rush him, he plays Ashiok, and I kill Ashiok in 2 turns with a Deahmist Raptor and an Emissary. Afterwards, his draws proved useless, and I landed a Whisperwood Elemental, following a Duress, to seal victory.
I took 2nd place.
Overall, I was very impressed with the decks versatility and resilience. It's very consistent and doesn't truly have a bad matchup. The one game I lost was a run of bad luck, but afterwards the deck proved that it could hang pre-sideboard with the same deck.
A few thoughts I had afterwards:
Sultai Emissary is absolutely nuts. It essentially reads "2cc 1/1 that gives you a 2/2 and draws you a card when it dies". Unbelievably awesome. He did a lot of work in every match, even though I didn't really mention him in my report. I love this card. "True love" kind of love
Elvish Mystic was placed to offset the tempo loss from our come into play tapped lands. I honestly found it unnecessary. The deck is fine playing things normally.
Wildcall was mostly filler, but for a lot of the same reason emissary was in. I found it to be absolutely awful.
Ruthless Ripper did amazing work, and it's numbers had to increase.
A split of Whisperwood and Hooded Hydra had to be made. 6 5cc cards bogged the deck down terribly, though they did amazing things when they were played.
After putting a lot of thought into it, below is the refined list I feel would do amazing:
I increased the threat count, with Pharika and Warden, and maximized utility with Minister (who is amazing vs Atarka Red).
I'm definitely impressed with how the deck has played and am excited to see how it develops. Would really appreciate you thoughts on this, as I feel it is a spicy contender for the current meta. Or really any meta, to be honest.
Looks like a fun build. There is a guy in my local shop that plays a G/W manifest deck which this reminds me of slightly. I suppose my biggest issue would be the lack of spot removal, especially for planeswalkers. It may just be my meta, but Hero's Downfall is a necessity in most match ups I find myself in. I'd also suggest looking into adding a Urborg, Tomb of Yagmowth or two in place of Jungle Hollow. It will provide a lot of flexibility for your mana base, even if it can sometimes help your opponent out too (abzan or esper match ups).
Edit: The other advantage to reducing Jungle Hollow is that your deck needs to be faster, so minimizing tap lands seems like a great idea. Your version is definitely more aggressive than mine and that may be the better way to go. I've certainly been leaning more that way over the past few weeks and may revamp the entire build.
Ok well after last night wasn't too kind to my deck, but it did force me to reevaluate my approach and confirmed a lingering suspicion. I've been way too reliant on the Deathmist Raptor engine that I've neglected making a more robust deck. My raptors didn't even make an appearance last night which made the deck underwhelming when it mattered. It can be plenty explosive without the raptors, but not having them hurt. As a result I've modified the deck a bit while still attempting to keep the core intact. It required some tough decisions, but I think it will perform a lot better. the new list looks like this.
Sidisi- I feel this card is going to be the game changer for how this deck plays. There is a ton of synergy between Grim Haruspex and Dictate of Erebos. A 4/6 Deathtouch is no slouch, but being able to search the library for the answer you need RIGHT NOW is worth it.
Dictate- This was initially replaced Archfiend of Depravity and can do wonders in controlling the board. In combination with Grim Haruspex and Deathmist Raptor, the card becomes very powerful and difficult for opponents to deal with. Add in Sidisi and now I have the ability to sac a creature, get the card I want, draw a card off of Grim, and make my opponent sac one of their creatures. There are matches where this card isn't going to be as great (token generating decks), so it is a 1 of in the main.
Other changes:
Boon Satyr- This is a 1 of in the main and is there mostly for the bestow mechanic. When attached to Den Protector it is often a game winner. Attach to an Elvish Mystic and it blocks more efficiently or becomes a better exploit target for Sidisi.
Elvish Mystic- Now a four of. This card will be a little better in my eyes now thanks to using it as an exploit target or card draw fodder for Grim, but being able to get to 5 mana consistently is now essential for this deck.
24 Lands- increased my land count by 1.
Strategy for the deck at this point:
I still view it as primarily a Den and Raptor engine deck and reoccurring threats are still the main focus and this deck seeks to grind the game out, but can easily win at turn 5. The big difference is there is now more win conditions. Surrak and Sidisi provide the heavy bodies to clinch the game. Whip of Erebos provides even more graveyard recursion.
Cards on my radar: Pitiless Horde- Great when using the dash mechanic, and board stabilizing if hard casted.
Erebos, God of the Dead- This would be a one of (likely fetch off of Sidisi). Additional card draw could be very useful, and 5/7 Indestructible when it becomes a creature is nice as well. I'd likely cut a whip out to make room, but I don't feel it is a needed change at the moment.
I'll be doing more play testing and will post up relevant standard daily or local tourney results. I'm going to try and not make any major changes for a few weeks to really get a handle on this deck. As always, feedback is much appreciated.
Here are the results of last night's LGS tournament. I finished 9th out of 35, tied on points with 8th. This is the best the deck has done so far and I feel far more confident in playing this most recent version. I did make some sideboard tweaks prior to the tournament. I took out 1 Thoughtseize and 1 Back to Nature to make room for 2 Pitiless Hordes. Not sure if I want them in the sideboard, but they were very helpful in a few matches. It is one of those cards I'd either bring in fairly regularly or side out often.
Match 1: 5 Color Dragons, built around a Temur shell (2-1)
Game 1- Fairly quick loss. Kept a promising hand with 3 lands and proceeded to then only draw lands. Survived for a while, but just couldn't establish a board to deal with the bigger threats.
Game 2- Brought in Merciless Executioner and Self-Inflicted wound. This was a quick win. T2 Raptor, T3 Surrak, T4 Whip, T5 Sidisi.
Game 3- Similar to game 2. Opponent landed two Thunderbreaks, but the executioners made quick work of them each time.
Match 2: Sultai Control (1-1-1)
Game 1- This was a looooong game. Took my opponent down to 3. He played crux of fate and I proceeded to hit a massive pocket of land. This allowed Kiora to go unchecked and eventually dominate the board.
Game 2- Brought in Pitiless Horde. Used Sidisi to grab the Horde and close out the game fairly quickly.
Game 3- Started with 2 minutes left in the round. Game was going my way. Horde in hand ready to go, but time was up and had to accept the draw. I'm fairly confident I would have taken this match based on my board state and cards in hand.
Match 3: R/G Aggro (0-2)
Game 1- This was my worse match-up of the night. No removal on hand. Beyond Deathmist Raptor, really couldn't get anything going.
Game 2- Similar to game 1. My Elvish mystics were taken out quickly and Surrak couldn't put enough pressure on the board against Thunderbreak regent or Stormbreath dragon. I definitely made some very poor decisions in this game which didn't help my cause.
Match 4: Esper Control (2-0)
Game 1- Good match, but fairly easy win. Took out 3 Ashioks and an Ojutai. Star of the initial game was Rakshasa.
Game 2- Brought in Executioners and the Horde. I didn't see as much of Ashiok, but had Hero's Downfall ready for when it appeared. Thoughtseized his Dragonlord's Prerogative late game leaving him with no cards in hand and no way to mill through his deck.
Overall thoughts: This version has proven to be the most resilient so far. There are multiple win conditions and an increased ability to dictate the pace of the game. I'm not sure where Pitiless Horde should fit into the deck (main vs side) but it was a welcomed addition. Sidisi offers a lot of flexibility to the deck even if she can be hard to cast in certain match ups. I definitely walked away feeling good about the build and not really needing to tweak much which is a first haha.
The core of the deck remains with Deathmist Raptor still providing a strong board presence that can't be ignored. Den Protector keeps them coming back while grabbing other relevant cards from the graveyard. Grim Haruspex provides card draw and brings the raptors back.
The big difference has been utilizing Sidisi. I've decided to go to a more controlling version and use Sidisi to bring in a variety of threats depending on the board state. My "silver bullets" include:
Erebos, God of the Dead- Prevents my opponent from gaining life (take that mastery of the unseen) and allows additional card draw when Grim isn't out on the field or relevant. Also becoming a 5/7 Indestructible isn't too shabby either.
Whip of Erebos- Mostly for all creatures gaining lifelink. Being able to bring a card back from the graveyard can be useful, but not the primary reason it was included.
Palace Siege- Mostly for Khans mode. Additional graveyard recursion and can be devastating when cycling Merciless Executioner. Can also be used to constantly bring back Sidisi (self exploit for more answers).
Dictate of Erebos- Great synergy with Merciless Executioner, very effective against a variety of decks that rely on a smaller number of threats.
Garruk, Apex Predator- Over the top, and needs to be dealt with fairly quickly. If nothing else it is a distraction that overwhelms an opponent if they are not prepared.
Liliana Vess- I'm on the fence with Liliana. There have been times that it has been great, but I will likely cut for another Sidisi
The sideboard strategy allows me a fair bit of flexibility. Abhorrent Overlord can replace Garruk (hilarious synergy with Dictate). Surrak and Pitiless can come in against Control decks or other opponents with a slower board state.
Tournament Result- Finished 8th.
Game 1: Jeskai Dragons (1-2)
Went 3 rounds. Very grindy games, but in the end I couldn't get the answer I needed when I needed it. These types of matches make me want to consider a card like windswept a bit more seriously, but I'm not sure if it would be actually needed. The last round really could have gone either way, but I got greedy, made a rash decision and paid for it.
Game 2: B/W Warriors (2-0)
Both games went rather quickly. Caryatid did what I needed them to do in chump blocking. My opponent didn't have much in the realm of removal and no real way to get the removal back, so Thoughtseize into Sidisi, next turn playing Garruk pretty much sealed the deal. Similar round 2, but with Bile Blight, Whip, and Erebos took care of the game.
Game 3: Sultai Control (1-1-1)
This one went the distance and ended in a draw due to time. I lost game 1 thanks to a slow board state. round 2 was equally grindy, but cards like Pitiless Horde took advantage of my opponent being equally as slow, if not a bit slower. Garruk and Self-Inflicted Wound were the hero's of round 2. I feel very confident that round 3 would have been favorable. Even my loss was super close and post sideboard I don't think there was a threat I couldn't have handled.
Game 4: Rally The Ancestors (2-0)
Quick games. I really want to like the Rally deck, but I've felt it is too inconsistent and this was one of those times. Round 1 could have gone in his favor with just one more rhino in the graveyard. I gave Garruk the -8, swung in for 42 damage and that was all that was needed. Round 2 shut down him out pretty quickly with Bile Blight taking care of the Nyx Weavers, Erebos Taking care of any life gain. Once I exploited a mana dork for a whip, he scooped.
The main issue I've had with this version is trying to make it more consistent and I think the key will be a 3rd Sidisi. Being able to reliably grab what I need to dominate the game is key to the strategy, so for now I am going to -1 Liliana in favor of an additional Sidisi.
It has been a fun build and I've had a blast playing it.
The splicing of mono black control with collected company GB megamorph is a strong urge for all of us I am sure but we need to be rocking 24+ creatures to be completely bad ass with collected company if we want to go that route and if not you have to have the draw and the means of surfacing our combos and win cons without taking an hour.
I think Hornets Nest should be added in this mix. I am torn between how aggro vs midrange I wanna be with this strategy and I certainly want Collected Company, Den Protector and Deathmist Raptor involved. The deck that won the MTG daily event used Qarsi High Priest , Sultai Emissary and Whisperwood Elemental to manifest a lot of power and control. I am trying to go somewhat down the middle. I want more removal especially for plainswalkers. I don't really care for palace siege...Dictate of Erebos is particularly wonderful in this deck. I also want tech like Hornets Nest and I am even highly considering a high end of Hornet Queen for all these fn dragons coming around. Merciless Executioner is fantastic even if it sacs to itself with Grim Haruspex out. I love saccing Sultai Emissary to it for a possible dope manifest. All good cards to side in against control decks and Ugin. A solid foundation begins with a way to keep Raptor rapping. However vs GW megamorph all they need is the WW Spirit Bolster chick on Den and we cannot block a damn thing. I want bile of blight and hero's downfall main. Murderous cut is good, late game. I also think having more than one Tree Warden is pointless he is a random dump fail safe beater that will most likely just put your opponent on edge. Grim Haruspex is a decent card all the way around however we do find ourselves not wanting to attack with it or block with it at fear of losing precious advantage. If you fear for that then we may need to assess having the toolbox more reformed and just plow through it with collected company. Courser of Kruphix is also high priority card its a great early game blocker and provides us with much needed top deck information for appropriate company collections.
So from my various versions of this build, I feel that the best version was with Rakshasa Deathdealer and Surrak, the Hunt Caller which is still listed at the very top of the thread. It was the most consistent and it did what it wanted to do very well. There were some issues with it and I'd argue for adding in Boon Satyr to that build for a better win condition. Pitiless Horde also made for some nice play testing and made an aggressive version more reliable.
If I were to go with a Collected Company based version, then I would probably look at adding in Boon Satyr, Master of the Feasts, and Pitiless Horde with a top end of Surrak. Even without collected company, the deck in an ideal situation could be swinging for 10 by turn 3, 15 by turn 4.
Ruthless Ripper was nice for some combat tricks when the opponent thought it was a morphed den protector, but there could be a better 1 drop since a 1/1 deathtouch creature is arguably best as a chump blocker without some way to grow it like become immense.
I've actually moved on from this build. While I still like the idea behind it (combining cheap removal with a constantly reoccurring threat), I took the aspect that I enjoyed the most of the later build and ditched the den protector / deathmist engine. I may visit it again, but for now it has been nice to play something else and not feel forced to have the Raptors in the build.
The basic premise behind the deck is to utilize the Den Protector and Deathmist Raptor engine. Grim Haruspex adds additional synergy both in generating card advantage as well as providing an additional (and cheaper) morph trigger for Deathmist. The deck is a pretty aggressive midrange deck, providing plenty of explosiveness when needed while also being capable of disrupting the opponent's board fairly regularly.
3 Ruthless Ripper
3 Elvish Mystic
4 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 Deathmist Raptor
4 Den Protector
4 Grim Haruspex
2 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
Sorcery (4)
3 Thoughtseize
3 Ultimate Price
3 Hero's Downfall
Artifact (2)
2 Whip of Erebos
Enchantments (2)
2 Dictate of Erebos
Lands (23)
8 Forest
4 Llanowar Wastes
6 Swamp
3 Temple of Malady
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Bile Blight
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Merciless Executioner
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
1 Ultimate Price
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Back to Nature
1 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
1 Thoughtseize
I've been play testing this pretty heavily on MTGO and this decklist has been tweaked based on those results. I am looking forward to testing it out at the next game store tourney. If nothing else it is a lot of fun to play, especially when you sideboard in a bunch of hate.
BRU Grixis Control/delver URB
standard:
BWUEsper controlUWB
legacy:
UWRMiraclesRWU
Other cards that are on my radar are Reclamation Sage and Rakshasa Deathdealer.
2 Bile Blight
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Merciless Executioner
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
1 Ultimate Price
2 Unravel the Aether
2 Stain the Mind
2 Windstorm
So far these changes have yielded very positive results and provide more consistent answers in the current meta (both online and at my local game store). I'll be piloting this version at my local store tournament on Tuesday. I'm really enjoying Ruthless Ripper in this deck and am glad to have made that change.
Is it the best card out there? certainly not. Will I try out something else eventually? More than likely haha.
As far future sideboard cards, Ainok Survivalist is on the radar as a possible replacement card for Reclamation Sage since the morph synergy fits in, but I don't think it is a necessary tweak at the moment.
Game 1- R/B Aggro (2-0)
Rd 1- Took me down to two life before I landed a whip and stabilized the board. Their deck relied heavily on the dash mechanic, but Raptors and Rakshasa kept it in check overal.
Rd 2- Mulligan to 6, tough battle but Surrak and Deathmist stabilized the board enough with Ruthless Ripper coming in for the win. I didn't see much in the realm or removal from my opponent, but a Stoke the Flames or Lightning Bolt would have made a world of difference.
Game 2- Mardu Dragons (2-0)
Rd 1- Whip was key again. Between the multiple thunderbreak regents mid game and plenty of burn spells, it took me a while to establish a board. Finally started getting my removal spells mid game and a late game ultimate price took care of monstrous stormbreath for the win.
Rd 2- Sideboarded in more removal including Merciless Executioner. 3 thunderbreaks fairly early on were dealt with quickly. Opponent couldn't get back into the game.
Game 3- Sidisi Whip (0-2)
Rd 1- Tough start. Opponent was able to establish a better board state early on. It is definitely a cool deck and one that I've thought of trying out.
Rd 2- Had to mulligan to 5 in order to get any land in hand and then didn't see a 3rd land until turn 6. 4th land on turn 9. I was surprised I lasted that long, but it was too little way too late. These games happen, but it is disappointing to not get in a proper game.
Game 4- Abzan Midrange (0-2)
Rd 1- On the play. Thoughtsiezed an elspeth (2 in hand). Baited fleecemain Lion with a morph'd Ripper. Stuck on 3 lands. Turn 8 get 4th land. No removal to deal with elspeth. Eventual loss to an army of tokens.
Rd 2- Mulligan to 5 again, this time with no land. Gotta love that MTGO shuffler. Once again the opponent had 2 Elspeths and what little removal I had was too little too late. By the time I had enough land to cast anything, there were 10 tokens out. Another disappointing loss.
Overall I feel that this version of the deck is significantly stronger. Sideboarding is harder simply because every card has a value. I'm not terribly happy with going 2-2, but that's mostly because of the manner of loss. It happens though. Elvish Mystic didn't really see play, but when it did my opponent usually targeted for immediate removal which is fine.
Ended 25th out of 67.
Elvish Mystic has advantages in both fixing mana and accelerating my board state (turn 2 Raptor, turn 3 Surrak in an ideal hand). The ability to chump block is a later game bonus, especially with Grim Haruspex in play.
Bloodsoaked Champion provides a very aggressive start and is a reoccurring threat. Biggest con is that it can't block, but it does force an opponent to deal with him, several times in most cases.
I've started play testing both versions and it is a tough call. I do like the acceleration that mystic brings to the table and being stuck on 2 swamps and 1 forest really kills my ability to stabilize the board.
That being said, the early game aggression from Bloodsoaked Champion can be super helpful. The graveyard recursion is an added bonus.
Aside from the fact that mystic for sure eats a removal spell which saves your later creatures, and champion just gets chump blocked all day or can't get over most of the dominant blockers in abzan,g/r, etc.
The below list is what we came to:
MainDeck 60cards
Creatures
4 Deathmist Raptor
4 Den Protector
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Grim Haruspex
4 Merciless Executioner
4 Sultai Emissary
3 Hooded Hydra
3 Ruthless Ripper
3 Whisperwood Elemental
4 Collected Company
Sorceries
1 Wildcall
Lands
6 Forest
4 Jungle Hollow
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Swamp
4 Temple of Malady
4 Duress
2 Ainok Survivalist
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Foul Tongue Invocation
2 Hornet's Nest
1 Bile Blight
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Ultimate Price
So the idea behind the deck was to generate immense card advantage by using manifest and morph to swing the control matches way in our favor. The deck was designed to be very resilient vs mass removal, spot removal, and counterspell.
Cards, like Sultai Emissary, gives the deck an edge against aggressive aggro strategies, and Ruthless Ripper gains a lot of early tempo for the deck to stabilize.
After a few hours of brewing, we sleeved it up for its first test run at a store vs store event. Here are the results:
4 Rounds, Swiss
Match 1 - Atarka Red ( 0-1)
Game 1: Game was pretty fast, due to double Goblin Rabblemaster. I couldn't stabilize quick enough.
Game 2: Much like Game 1, double Rabblemaster. I had a Bile Blight in my opening hand, but just couldn't get my second black source of mana. If I had I easily had control of the game, as he overextended.
Match 2 - Atarka Red (1-1)
Game 1: I start off with a Ruthless Ripper, which keeps his Zurgo from attacking, buying me a few turns to stabilize. I overwhelmed him with Deathmist Raptors and Den Protectors. He was never able to maintain a board presence.
Game 2: I board in 2 Drown in Sorrow, 1 Bile Blight, 2 Duress, and 2 Hornet's Nest. I side out 3 Ruthless Ripper, 1 Mystic, 1 Wildcall, and 2 Whisperwood Elemental. He overextends into a Drown in Sorrow, and I flood the board with raptors and Den Protectors.
Match 3 - Esper Dragons (2-1)
Game 1: I come out the gate with triple Raptor, due to a third turn Collected Company. He couldn't keep up, and I easily stole the game.
Game 2: He locks me out with Perilous Vault and Ugin. I couldn't keep up at this point.
Game 3: He mulligans to 3, to my relief. I chain Duresses with Den protectors to seal the deal.
Match 4 - Esper Dragons (3-1)
Game 1: I rush him with raptors and Sultai Emissary. He kills both Emissary and Raptor, and I morph over a Hooded Hydra for 2 mana. He couldn't keep pace, afterwards.
Game 2: He uses Ashiok to steal a Whisperwood Elemental. I follow with my own, and he ends up milling me with Ashiok. Game took forever. I at least managed to get him down to 5, before losing, despite the heavy disadvantage.
Game 3: I rush him, he plays Ashiok, and I kill Ashiok in 2 turns with a Deahmist Raptor and an Emissary. Afterwards, his draws proved useless, and I landed a Whisperwood Elemental, following a Duress, to seal victory.
I took 2nd place.
Overall, I was very impressed with the decks versatility and resilience. It's very consistent and doesn't truly have a bad matchup. The one game I lost was a run of bad luck, but afterwards the deck proved that it could hang pre-sideboard with the same deck.
A few thoughts I had afterwards:
Sultai Emissary is absolutely nuts. It essentially reads "2cc 1/1 that gives you a 2/2 and draws you a card when it dies". Unbelievably awesome. He did a lot of work in every match, even though I didn't really mention him in my report. I love this card. "True love" kind of love
Elvish Mystic was placed to offset the tempo loss from our come into play tapped lands. I honestly found it unnecessary. The deck is fine playing things normally.
Wildcall was mostly filler, but for a lot of the same reason emissary was in. I found it to be absolutely awful.
Ruthless Ripper did amazing work, and it's numbers had to increase.
A split of Whisperwood and Hooded Hydra had to be made. 6 5cc cards bogged the deck down terribly, though they did amazing things when they were played.
After putting a lot of thought into it, below is the refined list I feel would do amazing:
MainDeck 60cards
Creatures
4 Deathmist Raptor
4 Den Protector
4 Grim Haruspex
4 Merciless Executioner
4 Ruthless Ripper
4 Sultai Emissary
4 Warden of the First Tree
2 Hooded Hydra
2 Whisperwood Elemental
1 Minister of Pain
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
4 Collected Company
Lands
6 Forest
4 Jungle Hollow
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Swamp
4 Temple of Malady
4 Duress
2 Ainok Survivalist
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Foul Tongue Invocation
2 Hornet's Nest
1 Bile Blight
1 Highland Game
1 Ultimate Price
I increased the threat count, with Pharika and Warden, and maximized utility with Minister (who is amazing vs Atarka Red).
I'm definitely impressed with how the deck has played and am excited to see how it develops. Would really appreciate you thoughts on this, as I feel it is a spicy contender for the current meta. Or really any meta, to be honest.
Thanks for reading!
Edit: The other advantage to reducing Jungle Hollow is that your deck needs to be faster, so minimizing tap lands seems like a great idea. Your version is definitely more aggressive than mine and that may be the better way to go. I've certainly been leaning more that way over the past few weeks and may revamp the entire build.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 Deathmist Raptor
4 Den Protector
4 Grim Haruspex
2 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Boon Satyr
Sorcery (4)
3 Thoughtseize
2 Ultimate Price
3 Hero's Downfall
Artifact (2)
2 Whip of Erebos
Enchantments (1)
1 Dictate of Erebos
Lands (24)
8 Forest
4 Llanowar Wastes
6 Swamp
4 Temple of Malady
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Bile Blight
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Merciless Executioner
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
1 Ultimate Price
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Back to Nature
1 Dictate of Erebos
1 Thoughtseize
The biggest changes from the last iteration comes in the form of Dictate of Erebos and Sidisi, Undead Vizier.
Sidisi- I feel this card is going to be the game changer for how this deck plays. There is a ton of synergy between Grim Haruspex and Dictate of Erebos. A 4/6 Deathtouch is no slouch, but being able to search the library for the answer you need RIGHT NOW is worth it.
Dictate- This was initially replaced Archfiend of Depravity and can do wonders in controlling the board. In combination with Grim Haruspex and Deathmist Raptor, the card becomes very powerful and difficult for opponents to deal with. Add in Sidisi and now I have the ability to sac a creature, get the card I want, draw a card off of Grim, and make my opponent sac one of their creatures. There are matches where this card isn't going to be as great (token generating decks), so it is a 1 of in the main.
Other changes:
Boon Satyr- This is a 1 of in the main and is there mostly for the bestow mechanic. When attached to Den Protector it is often a game winner. Attach to an Elvish Mystic and it blocks more efficiently or becomes a better exploit target for Sidisi.
Elvish Mystic- Now a four of. This card will be a little better in my eyes now thanks to using it as an exploit target or card draw fodder for Grim, but being able to get to 5 mana consistently is now essential for this deck.
24 Lands- increased my land count by 1.
Strategy for the deck at this point:
I still view it as primarily a Den and Raptor engine deck and reoccurring threats are still the main focus and this deck seeks to grind the game out, but can easily win at turn 5. The big difference is there is now more win conditions. Surrak and Sidisi provide the heavy bodies to clinch the game. Whip of Erebos provides even more graveyard recursion.
Cards on my radar:
Pitiless Horde- Great when using the dash mechanic, and board stabilizing if hard casted.
Erebos, God of the Dead- This would be a one of (likely fetch off of Sidisi). Additional card draw could be very useful, and 5/7 Indestructible when it becomes a creature is nice as well. I'd likely cut a whip out to make room, but I don't feel it is a needed change at the moment.
I'll be doing more play testing and will post up relevant standard daily or local tourney results. I'm going to try and not make any major changes for a few weeks to really get a handle on this deck. As always, feedback is much appreciated.
Match 1: 5 Color Dragons, built around a Temur shell (2-1)
Game 1- Fairly quick loss. Kept a promising hand with 3 lands and proceeded to then only draw lands. Survived for a while, but just couldn't establish a board to deal with the bigger threats.
Game 2- Brought in Merciless Executioner and Self-Inflicted wound. This was a quick win. T2 Raptor, T3 Surrak, T4 Whip, T5 Sidisi.
Game 3- Similar to game 2. Opponent landed two Thunderbreaks, but the executioners made quick work of them each time.
Match 2: Sultai Control (1-1-1)
Game 1- This was a looooong game. Took my opponent down to 3. He played crux of fate and I proceeded to hit a massive pocket of land. This allowed Kiora to go unchecked and eventually dominate the board.
Game 2- Brought in Pitiless Horde. Used Sidisi to grab the Horde and close out the game fairly quickly.
Game 3- Started with 2 minutes left in the round. Game was going my way. Horde in hand ready to go, but time was up and had to accept the draw. I'm fairly confident I would have taken this match based on my board state and cards in hand.
Match 3: R/G Aggro (0-2)
Game 1- This was my worse match-up of the night. No removal on hand. Beyond Deathmist Raptor, really couldn't get anything going.
Game 2- Similar to game 1. My Elvish mystics were taken out quickly and Surrak couldn't put enough pressure on the board against Thunderbreak regent or Stormbreath dragon. I definitely made some very poor decisions in this game which didn't help my cause.
Match 4: Esper Control (2-0)
Game 1- Good match, but fairly easy win. Took out 3 Ashioks and an Ojutai. Star of the initial game was Rakshasa.
Game 2- Brought in Executioners and the Horde. I didn't see as much of Ashiok, but had Hero's Downfall ready for when it appeared. Thoughtseized his Dragonlord's Prerogative late game leaving him with no cards in hand and no way to mill through his deck.
Overall thoughts: This version has proven to be the most resilient so far. There are multiple win conditions and an increased ability to dictate the pace of the game. I'm not sure where Pitiless Horde should fit into the deck (main vs side) but it was a welcomed addition. Sidisi offers a lot of flexibility to the deck even if she can be hard to cast in certain match ups. I definitely walked away feeling good about the build and not really needing to tweak much which is a first haha.
3x Elvish Mystics
4x Sylvan Caryatid
3x Den Protector
4x Grim Haruspex
2x Merciless Executioner
4x Deathmist Raptor
2x Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Enchantments (4)
1x Whip of Erebos
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Palace Siege
1x Dictate of Erebos
2x Ultimate Price
3x Hero's Downfall
Sorcery (3)
3x Thoughtseize
Planeswalkers (2)
1x Liliana Vess (M15)
1x Garruk, Apex Predator
Lands (24)
4x Temple of Malady
4x Llanowar Wastes
6x Swamp
8x Forest
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Thoughtseize
2x Self-Inflicted Wound
1x Ultimate Price
3x Bile Blight
2x Reclamation Sage
1x Merciless Executioner
2x Pitiless Horde
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Surrak, the Hunt Caller
1x Abhorrent Overlord
The core of the deck remains with Deathmist Raptor still providing a strong board presence that can't be ignored. Den Protector keeps them coming back while grabbing other relevant cards from the graveyard. Grim Haruspex provides card draw and brings the raptors back.
The big difference has been utilizing Sidisi. I've decided to go to a more controlling version and use Sidisi to bring in a variety of threats depending on the board state. My "silver bullets" include:
Erebos, God of the Dead- Prevents my opponent from gaining life (take that mastery of the unseen) and allows additional card draw when Grim isn't out on the field or relevant. Also becoming a 5/7 Indestructible isn't too shabby either.
Whip of Erebos- Mostly for all creatures gaining lifelink. Being able to bring a card back from the graveyard can be useful, but not the primary reason it was included.
Palace Siege- Mostly for Khans mode. Additional graveyard recursion and can be devastating when cycling Merciless Executioner. Can also be used to constantly bring back Sidisi (self exploit for more answers).
Dictate of Erebos- Great synergy with Merciless Executioner, very effective against a variety of decks that rely on a smaller number of threats.
Garruk, Apex Predator- Over the top, and needs to be dealt with fairly quickly. If nothing else it is a distraction that overwhelms an opponent if they are not prepared.
Liliana Vess- I'm on the fence with Liliana. There have been times that it has been great, but I will likely cut for another Sidisi
The sideboard strategy allows me a fair bit of flexibility. Abhorrent Overlord can replace Garruk (hilarious synergy with Dictate). Surrak and Pitiless can come in against Control decks or other opponents with a slower board state.
Tournament Result- Finished 8th.
Game 1: Jeskai Dragons (1-2)
Went 3 rounds. Very grindy games, but in the end I couldn't get the answer I needed when I needed it. These types of matches make me want to consider a card like windswept a bit more seriously, but I'm not sure if it would be actually needed. The last round really could have gone either way, but I got greedy, made a rash decision and paid for it.
Game 2: B/W Warriors (2-0)
Both games went rather quickly. Caryatid did what I needed them to do in chump blocking. My opponent didn't have much in the realm of removal and no real way to get the removal back, so Thoughtseize into Sidisi, next turn playing Garruk pretty much sealed the deal. Similar round 2, but with Bile Blight, Whip, and Erebos took care of the game.
Game 3: Sultai Control (1-1-1)
This one went the distance and ended in a draw due to time. I lost game 1 thanks to a slow board state. round 2 was equally grindy, but cards like Pitiless Horde took advantage of my opponent being equally as slow, if not a bit slower. Garruk and Self-Inflicted Wound were the hero's of round 2. I feel very confident that round 3 would have been favorable. Even my loss was super close and post sideboard I don't think there was a threat I couldn't have handled.
Game 4: Rally The Ancestors (2-0)
Quick games. I really want to like the Rally deck, but I've felt it is too inconsistent and this was one of those times. Round 1 could have gone in his favor with just one more rhino in the graveyard. I gave Garruk the -8, swung in for 42 damage and that was all that was needed. Round 2 shut down him out pretty quickly with Bile Blight taking care of the Nyx Weavers, Erebos Taking care of any life gain. Once I exploited a mana dork for a whip, he scooped.
The main issue I've had with this version is trying to make it more consistent and I think the key will be a 3rd Sidisi. Being able to reliably grab what I need to dominate the game is key to the strategy, so for now I am going to -1 Liliana in favor of an additional Sidisi.
It has been a fun build and I've had a blast playing it.
As always suggestions would be appreciated!
I think Hornets Nest should be added in this mix. I am torn between how aggro vs midrange I wanna be with this strategy and I certainly want Collected Company, Den Protector and Deathmist Raptor involved. The deck that won the MTG daily event used Qarsi High Priest , Sultai Emissary and Whisperwood Elemental to manifest a lot of power and control. I am trying to go somewhat down the middle. I want more removal especially for plainswalkers. I don't really care for palace siege...Dictate of Erebos is particularly wonderful in this deck. I also want tech like Hornets Nest and I am even highly considering a high end of Hornet Queen for all these fn dragons coming around. Merciless Executioner is fantastic even if it sacs to itself with Grim Haruspex out. I love saccing Sultai Emissary to it for a possible dope manifest. All good cards to side in against control decks and Ugin. A solid foundation begins with a way to keep Raptor rapping. However vs GW megamorph all they need is the WW Spirit Bolster chick on Den and we cannot block a damn thing. I want bile of blight and hero's downfall main. Murderous cut is good, late game. I also think having more than one Tree Warden is pointless he is a random dump fail safe beater that will most likely just put your opponent on edge. Grim Haruspex is a decent card all the way around however we do find ourselves not wanting to attack with it or block with it at fear of losing precious advantage. If you fear for that then we may need to assess having the toolbox more reformed and just plow through it with collected company. Courser of Kruphix is also high priority card its a great early game blocker and provides us with much needed top deck information for appropriate company collections.
If I were to go with a Collected Company based version, then I would probably look at adding in Boon Satyr, Master of the Feasts, and Pitiless Horde with a top end of Surrak. Even without collected company, the deck in an ideal situation could be swinging for 10 by turn 3, 15 by turn 4.
Ruthless Ripper was nice for some combat tricks when the opponent thought it was a morphed den protector, but there could be a better 1 drop since a 1/1 deathtouch creature is arguably best as a chump blocker without some way to grow it like become immense.
I've actually moved on from this build. While I still like the idea behind it (combining cheap removal with a constantly reoccurring threat), I took the aspect that I enjoyed the most of the later build and ditched the den protector / deathmist engine. I may visit it again, but for now it has been nice to play something else and not feel forced to have the Raptors in the build.