I agree with that sentiment. While recurring damage for pressure is nice for a control deck, triggering Ferocious is difficult if you're not already in a stable/winning board state, at which point the extra 2 damage is not the most amazing thing ever.
Beyond that, I'll reiterate that this deck really wants at least 2 Crux of Fate in the 75, preferably main board, plus some number of either Drown or Anger (or both), probably about 3 of. Early game you can usually trade your removal for their threats 1 for 1. But eventually they'll reach the point where they can deploy multiple threats in 1 turn or your single target removal does not match up well against their threats (like a Wild Slash and Price in hand when they have Siege Rhino on board), and they will start to build up a board.
If you get behind on board, Crux is your best (and sometimes only) way to stabilize and then take back the initiative. It's not that you want to see more than 1, it's just that you almost certainly want to see at least 1, which is why 1 in a 60 card deck is just not enough.
So far flamewake has been working very nice and I think your under estimating their role. I agree about crux but tje list plays so tight. I am gona try the second crux in the board cutting one executioner. Thanks for your feedback.
This standard more than any other shows that there is no dominate deck. So having across the board good match ups. The deck was made to mono red and control decks. So far its been very good at that. Struggles come vs the slower agro deck with collected company and green/x devotion decks
The executioners in the board look odd, especially since you have to sac itself 9 times out of 10. Why not additional hand disruption and solid removal? I also agree about Flamewake, that is unless its being run next to Butcher of the Horde but, that's a different deck.
Well it's cute but you won't really know how "good" Phoenix is until you replace it with a better card. Your curve is low enough to drop those for crux. The deck needs at least 2 crux in the main board.
Foul Tongue is so important in winning the mono red match, and the dragons match. Flamewake is also key in applying a recurring source of pressure vs the control deck, and has consistently over preformed, this deck would exist without it.
Thanks for the feedback but i don't think cutting flamewakes or foul tongue is reasonable. Nor do i think 2 crux in the main is a must. Please make comments only if you have played with the cards in question or something similar to the list i posted.
We have played with the cards, I tried flamewake and it will get burned by any burn spell. Gets chummed by any flyer. Those slots could be for something a lot more power. Yes it's cute against control but in that case, it would be a SB card. Crux is a 2-of in everyone else's decks because you need some consistency, that and tokens won't die to spot removal.
I'm saying this because Phoenix isn't a standard playable card, at least not in this deck. Your deck, like ours, has the kind of power to make top 8 at pro tours, the deck has a lot of power and can beat the current top 8 decks. Trust us when we are giving you advice.
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Updated list for me, added some temples for t1 scry or a late game scry. Dropped a tempest cause I hate top decking It.
How is your more aggressive stance working for you? I find the deck works best in the disruption/control role where you seem to of abandoned it completely. I can't find myself getting on the Dragon Tempest plan. It's too conditional. Its only good with an abundance of dragons on the field. If they're destroyed once they hit play, it does you no good. Sure, it gives your Dragons haste, but if that was your concern you could just run Hammer of Purphous. Having only 2 Rabbles in the main gives you such a small chance of hitting it T3 when you want it because, since you're not playing the control role, it gets outclassed fast.
Dude, to be honest, I've been think of taking out the tempests. I love them to death but they don't do much when the first hit board. The actual haste on a thunderbreak is really sweet though. The non-dashed kolaghan is also sweet.
Rabblemaster isn't quite there for the aggressiveness of him as much the fact that he is a threat when he does hit board. With the amount of spot removal we run, we can easily clear the way for a swing with him. If he gets removed then that's one less for a dragon. I would also point out that dragonlord's servant is a goblin too, can help with a rabblemaster swing. (If I didn't need it anymore)
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However, against aggro and decks that clog the board, fliers are better. Against control, Rabblemasters ate but, they're only extremely effective once you strip their hand with all the discard available. Have you ran the more disruptive route?
Not yet, the only actual disruption I have is 4 duress in the sideboard. Rabble seems to get in a lot more then he should against the control match-up.
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I'd suggest giving it a go, at least a gauntlet with it. Get the feel. I'm sure you'll find the heavy disruption suite of Thoughtsieze and Command main with Duress in the board to be a very strong set-up.
Um, how about no. It's a cool sideboard for aggro decks to shoot a creature and disrupt the hand. There isn't really any room for it in the mainboard as more then a 2-of
If you're running it next to a playset of Thoughtsieze and/or other disruption, I'd say 2-3 in the main is probably sufficient. With the rest for the control and midrange matches. They don't do well against super aggressive decks because they play through their hand so quick; that means we need sufficient removal to handle those matchups.
It won't rotate until BFZ so you could unload right when Origin drops and they would still have good value. There's at least 1 person doing a 2-2 split of Despise and Duress. Its subject to more variance, but could be a testing platform at least.
Foul Tongue is so important in winning the mono red match, and the dragons match. Flamewake is also key in applying a recurring source of pressure vs the control deck, and has consistently over preformed, this deck would exist without it.
Thanks for the feedback but i don't think cutting flamewakes or foul tongue is reasonable. Nor do i think 2 crux in the main is a must. Please make comments only if you have played with the cards in question or something similar to the list i posted.
Just because you don't like our comments doesn't mean we haven't played with the cards. We have, which is why we're making recommendations to you. If multiple people are telling you something, chances are it's not unreasonable.
TS is amazing at the moment, and copying your signature, if you have a budget, don't play magic
If you play Mardu or BR dragons (with or without splash W for crack), TS is mandatory in the current format.
That said, kolaghans command is a very, very good card. However, I like it in the controlling variant of this deck, which plays 10 dragons (4 storm, 4 thunder, 2 kola) and rest removal/hand disruption.
If you play more of an aggro route, I understand you wouldn't want 3 or 4. But kolaghans command gives you removal vs aggro decks and threat recursion + card discard vs control. It's just really good.
I don't have a budget, I just don't want to pay for something that will rotate. Everyone know that I'm rotation crazy. I will try to trade stuff that will rotate, right after we have rotated.
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It won't rotate until BFZ so you could unload right when Origin drops and they would still have good value. There's at least 1 person doing a 2-2 split of Despise and Duress. Its subject to more variance, but could be a testing platform at least.
I wouldn't be able to unload them sadly 😞. Everyone at my shop is rotation savvy, (most play standard). If I do cut my tempests, which will be a sad day, despise will go in their place.
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If you have a budget, you shouldn't play magic competitively
If you have a budget, you shouldn't play magic competitively
Main Deck: What's left
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/602378-kolaghan-dragons
trade me:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1277-almost-done
Beyond that, I'll reiterate that this deck really wants at least 2 Crux of Fate in the 75, preferably main board, plus some number of either Drown or Anger (or both), probably about 3 of. Early game you can usually trade your removal for their threats 1 for 1. But eventually they'll reach the point where they can deploy multiple threats in 1 turn or your single target removal does not match up well against their threats (like a Wild Slash and Price in hand when they have Siege Rhino on board), and they will start to build up a board.
If you get behind on board, Crux is your best (and sometimes only) way to stabilize and then take back the initiative. It's not that you want to see more than 1, it's just that you almost certainly want to see at least 1, which is why 1 in a 60 card deck is just not enough.
This standard more than any other shows that there is no dominate deck. So having across the board good match ups. The deck was made to mono red and control decks. So far its been very good at that. Struggles come vs the slower agro deck with collected company and green/x devotion decks
If you have a budget, you shouldn't play magic competitively
Main Deck: What's left
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/602378-kolaghan-dragons
trade me:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1277-almost-done
Thanks for the feedback but i don't think cutting flamewakes or foul tongue is reasonable. Nor do i think 2 crux in the main is a must. Please make comments only if you have played with the cards in question or something similar to the list i posted.
I'm saying this because Phoenix isn't a standard playable card, at least not in this deck. Your deck, like ours, has the kind of power to make top 8 at pro tours, the deck has a lot of power and can beat the current top 8 decks. Trust us when we are giving you advice.
If you have a budget, you shouldn't play magic competitively
Main Deck: What's left
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/602378-kolaghan-dragons
trade me:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1277-almost-done
2 Goblin rabblemaster
2 Dragonlord Kolaghan
4 Dragonlord's Servant
3 Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
4 thunder
Enchantments: 2
2 Outpost Siege
3 Draconic Roar
3 foul-tounge innvocation
3 Ultimate Price
3 wild slash
Sorcery: 8
2 Crater's Claws
3 Anger of the gods
3 Hordling outburst
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Haven Of The Spirit Dragon
2 Temple of Malice
7 Mountain
6 Swamp
Updated list for me, added some temples for t1 scry or a late game scry. Dropped a tempest cause I hate top decking It.
If you have a budget, you shouldn't play magic competitively
Main Deck: What's left
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/602378-kolaghan-dragons
trade me:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1277-almost-done
never, ever dead
Somewhere in the 75, I'd agree.
How is your more aggressive stance working for you? I find the deck works best in the disruption/control role where you seem to of abandoned it completely. I can't find myself getting on the Dragon Tempest plan. It's too conditional. Its only good with an abundance of dragons on the field. If they're destroyed once they hit play, it does you no good. Sure, it gives your Dragons haste, but if that was your concern you could just run Hammer of Purphous. Having only 2 Rabbles in the main gives you such a small chance of hitting it T3 when you want it because, since you're not playing the control role, it gets outclassed fast.
Rabblemaster isn't quite there for the aggressiveness of him as much the fact that he is a threat when he does hit board. With the amount of spot removal we run, we can easily clear the way for a swing with him. If he gets removed then that's one less for a dragon. I would also point out that dragonlord's servant is a goblin too, can help with a rabblemaster swing. (If I didn't need it anymore)
If you have a budget, you shouldn't play magic competitively
Main Deck: What's left
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/602378-kolaghan-dragons
trade me:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1277-almost-done
If you have a budget, you shouldn't play magic competitively
Main Deck: What's left
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/602378-kolaghan-dragons
trade me:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1277-almost-done
4 maindeck or you're totally doing it wrong. no exceptions
If you have a budget, you shouldn't play magic competitively
Main Deck: What's left
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/602378-kolaghan-dragons
trade me:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1277-almost-done
If you have a budget, you shouldn't play magic competitively
Main Deck: What's left
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/602378-kolaghan-dragons
trade me:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1277-almost-done
Just because you don't like our comments doesn't mean we haven't played with the cards. We have, which is why we're making recommendations to you. If multiple people are telling you something, chances are it's not unreasonable.
I don't have a budget, I just don't want to pay for something that will rotate. Everyone know that I'm rotation crazy. I will try to trade stuff that will rotate, right after we have rotated.
If you have a budget, you shouldn't play magic competitively
Main Deck: What's left
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/602378-kolaghan-dragons
trade me:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1277-almost-done
I wouldn't be able to unload them sadly 😞. Everyone at my shop is rotation savvy, (most play standard). If I do cut my tempests, which will be a sad day, despise will go in their place.
If you have a budget, you shouldn't play magic competitively
Main Deck: What's left
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/602378-kolaghan-dragons
trade me:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1277-almost-done