I tried Rhino and as good as he is, it just isnt worth stretching the mana for him. At that point, I might has well play Abzan which I don't. I plan on jamming this until it isn't good anymore, and based on my fnm it should be good for a long time. I built the deck to beat up on aggressive strategies with board cards helping against the occasional control deck which all my fnm is right now.
I think Herald of Torment seems better than Strike Leader. Herald also can provide multiple bodies (sort of) except you still get the extra advantage from him if the creature immediately eats removal. He has evasion, where Strike Leader is somewhat anemic and won't be able to get through vs a lot of opponents. Also is great with the small lifelink guys in the same way Siege is except more so since he provides evasion. Herald on lifelink creatures will win a lot of races. He is also great with Brimaz, putting him in the air with 7 toughness so you can keep churning out tokens and block anything and still live.
Rd 1 - Sidisi Whip (1-2)
Rd 2 - Mardu Midrange (2-0)
Rd 3 - Big Red (1-2)
Rd 4 - Rakdos Dragons (2-0)
Rd 5 - UB Control (2-0)
So the games I lost were to me not having enough mana in one and too much in another. Overall, I am still very happy with the deck and look to continue doing well with it in the weeks to come
I've hadn't had much trouble against it. Game 1 I crushed him on his mull to 5, but game 2 I went turn 2 seeker, turn 3 secure, and had the turn 4 sorin but no 4th land and ended up losing that game and then game 3 as well. Variance is a thing heh.
Remember you have access to thoughtseize and duress (post board) as well. They can't really do anything without whip in play so if you can make them discard it you should be in good shape.
how did this list work out for u? my meta normally just plays top tier decks of the week, quite annoying but i mean what do you expect. what were the major issues u had? change? ect. thanks
So far I am 6-2-1 with the deck and the only change I made was swapping 2 stances for 2 banishing light to have maindeck answers to outpost siege. My FNM is has a lot of red decks with control and other blue midrange/whip decks thrown in for good measure. The deck's only weakness is to outpost siege, everything else I do quite well against.
So far I am 6-2-1 with the deck and the only change I made was swapping 2 stances for 2 banishing light to have maindeck answers to outpost siege. My FNM is has a lot of red decks with control and other blue midrange/whip decks thrown in for good measure. The deck's only weakness is to outpost siege, everything else I do quite well against.
okay great, really getting bored with the standard meta right now so trying to figure out something else to play, i was for awhile looking into BW token but the new DTK card kinda just kills it, and this looks pretty sweet so defiantly ganna try it out. did you change anything with sideboard? erebos worth it?
Erebos is fine. Mostly brought in to fight GW Devotion but people at my FNM don't play it very much due to how long it takes for people to win with the deck and how mulligan-dependent it can be as well.
One cool thing about Spear of Heliod, it's worded When a creature deals damage to you not when a Creature deals combat damage or attacking. If a creature has an ability that causes you to take damage like Thunderbreak Regent, Eidolon of the Great Revel you can activate spear and kill it.
This deck played other control decks (three U/B Control, one Sultai, one Abzan) five out of the six matches, and I went 1-2-2 during that stretch. (The only non-control deck I played was a R/W Aggro deck that I destroyed.)
Colossus of Akros is a serious anti-control card. He comes down and they don't know what to do with it. You can play around their counters, and the only card they usually play that can deal with it is Perilous Vault - something you can also play around. I didn't lose a single game where I had him on the battlefield. He won me several games. I highly recommend trying him as an anti-control silver bullet. (He's probably also the most fun card to play with in the entire deck.)
Myth Realized is a legit threat against midrange and control. You'll find that it outclasses other creatures pretty easily, and against control, it turns into a menace that has to be answered. Works very well with Valorous Stance.
Since then, I've changed the sideboard around to include Sorin, Solemn Visitor and Mind Rot, mainly to even out the control matchup but to also help with decks that absolutely need all of their resources to kill you.
I'm going in completely different directions than the rest of you it seems
Still haven't taken the tokens Secure the Wastes route, although I'm keen to try it at some point if I get the chance. Today I'm going to try the splash Siege Rhino version of the deck and also test out Pitiless Horde. Game Day is this weekend, so I'm trying to test out as many cards as I can. Will probably take Secure the Wastes on Friday if going Rhino doesn't pan out.
The dream with Pitiless Horde is t1/2 disruption, t3 Horde, t4 Sorin, swing for 6 lifelink. But I do like how it's a flex 3/4 on the curve, depending on whether your hand wants to play Brimaz or Siege Rhino. My one issue with it, compared to my bae Mardu Strike Leader, is that it doesn't let me go wide, and it doesn't leave a blocker after I dash it, which is very useful in race situations.
What differentiates this from plain old Abzan is that we don't want Courser of Kruphix because its not a threat. I'm also not playing two drops, so Rakshasa Deathdealer or Fleecemane Lion simply aren't needed. And because we haven't leant too heavily on green in the manabase, Brimaz is still easily supported. We're still focusing on the powerful line of: Hand Disruption -> Effecient Threat, we've just added Rhino to the list of effecient threats.
OK, so for the most part, Pitiless Horde didn't do very much. Often got in for one hit of five and then got killed or obsoleted. I did enjoy Siege Rhino, however.
One thing I did notice about Pitiless Horde is that it excelled in one matchup of the night: vs. a Mardu Control build. Their build played out very much like Abzan without Siege Rhinos. Lots of 1-for-1 removal and hand-disruption, interrupted by tapping out for planeswalkers. Against this deck, I would play a very controlling game, siding in Glare of Heresy and Utter End and wait for them to do something. When they tapped out for a planeswalker, for example, I would kill it and then dash the Horde for five damage. Eventually this just plain killed them. I'm wondering whether the Horde could translate into similar value vs. Abzan Control. That being said, Elspeth tokens just plain chump it to death. So maybe not. Either way, its very good out of the sideboard against UB Control.
What I'm taking to FNM this week, only change being swapping 3 roc for 3 wrath to deal with the growing popularity of green devotion decks and GR Monsters more effectively.
I find my matchup against control is easy. I have 5 dead cards against them so boarding in 5 cards is the easy part, getting around the hexproof silumgar is not however.
How does this deck do against UB/Esper control pre and post sideboard ? I can see Thoughtseizes and Duresses helping a lot, but is it enough ? There are a lot of dead cards against control.
One of my favourite things about this deck is how good the control matchup is. In all competition, haven't lost to a control deck yet. Thoughtseize + Duress tear them a part, and in my build, dashing is also really useful. Your ability to take over the board with a single creature, not having to over commit is sweet. That being said, I haven't been able to take on the more dragon heavy builds yet and I'm curious to see how I deal with their threats. Keeping in Downfall and Stance seem like safe hedges.
I find my matchup against control is easy. I have 5 dead cards against them so boarding in 5 cards is the easy part, getting around the hexproof silumgar is not however.
I actually sided in Merciless Executioner against UB Control once and absolutely wrecked the guy when he dropped Silumgar
Took this list to Game Day and came fourth. Lost to Esper Dragons in the top four. Might've been able to beat him if I didn't make a pretty stupid misplay! Deck felt good, as usual, and Siege Rhino was a house. Definitely worth splashing green for in this sort of build.
HOWEVER, I did test out the two Secure the Wastes and while I didn't see them much, they did enough to pique my interest in trying out a more tokens oriented BW version of this deck. Maybe something like:
(246-174-26)
Rd 1 - Sidisi Whip (1-2)
Rd 2 - Mardu Midrange (2-0)
Rd 3 - Big Red (1-2)
Rd 4 - Rakdos Dragons (2-0)
Rd 5 - UB Control (2-0)
So the games I lost were to me not having enough mana in one and too much in another. Overall, I am still very happy with the deck and look to continue doing well with it in the weeks to come
(246-174-26)
(246-174-26)
(246-174-26)
When you say somewhat, is this deck online or in paper as well?
(246-174-26)
how did this list work out for u? my meta normally just plays top tier decks of the week, quite annoying but i mean what do you expect. what were the major issues u had? change? ect. thanks
BRU Grixis Control/delver URB
standard:
BWUEsper controlUWB
legacy:
UWRMiraclesRWU
(246-174-26)
okay great, really getting bored with the standard meta right now so trying to figure out something else to play, i was for awhile looking into BW token but the new DTK card kinda just kills it, and this looks pretty sweet so defiantly ganna try it out. did you change anything with sideboard? erebos worth it?
BRU Grixis Control/delver URB
standard:
BWUEsper controlUWB
legacy:
UWRMiraclesRWU
(246-174-26)
4 Seeker of the Way
2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Banishing Light
2 Bile Blight
1 Drown in Sorrow
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Mastery of the Unseen
3 Read the Bones
4 Secure the Wastes
1 Ultimate Price
1 Valorous Stance
6 Plains
4 Scoured Barrens
6 Swamp
4 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
i think this is a route im going to try thursday, not 100% on the exemplars yet but ive wanted to try them, has anyone else yet?
BRU Grixis Control/delver URB
standard:
BWUEsper controlUWB
legacy:
UWRMiraclesRWU
BY THE WAY I CUT THE MASTERYS FOR THOUGHTSIEZE MAIN BOARD.
BRU Grixis Control/delver URB
standard:
BWUEsper controlUWB
legacy:
UWRMiraclesRWU
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Wingmate Roc
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Secure the Wastes
4 Raise the Alarm
2 Valorous Stance
3 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
2 Utter End
4 Caves of Koilos
6 Plains
4 Scoured Barrens
5 Swamp
4 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
BRU Grixis Control/delver URB
standard:
BWUEsper controlUWB
legacy:
UWRMiraclesRWU
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Silence the Believers
2 Ultimate Price
2 Utter End
3 Valorous Stance
1 Damnable Pact
3 End Hostilities
3 Read the Bones
3 Thoughtseize
1 Liliana Vess
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Resolute Archangel
3 Myth Realized
3 Caves of Koilos
6 Plains
4 Scoured Barrens
7 Swamp
4 Temple of Silence
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Crux of Fate
3 Drown in Sorrow
4 Duress
1 Liliana Vess
1 Thoughtseize
1 In Garruk's Wake
1 Archfiend of Depravity
2 Bile Blight
This deck played other control decks (three U/B Control, one Sultai, one Abzan) five out of the six matches, and I went 1-2-2 during that stretch. (The only non-control deck I played was a R/W Aggro deck that I destroyed.)
Colossus of Akros is a serious anti-control card. He comes down and they don't know what to do with it. You can play around their counters, and the only card they usually play that can deal with it is Perilous Vault - something you can also play around. I didn't lose a single game where I had him on the battlefield. He won me several games. I highly recommend trying him as an anti-control silver bullet. (He's probably also the most fun card to play with in the entire deck.)
Myth Realized is a legit threat against midrange and control. You'll find that it outclasses other creatures pretty easily, and against control, it turns into a menace that has to be answered. Works very well with Valorous Stance.
Since then, I've changed the sideboard around to include Sorin, Solemn Visitor and Mind Rot, mainly to even out the control matchup but to also help with decks that absolutely need all of their resources to kill you.
Still haven't taken the tokens Secure the Wastes route, although I'm keen to try it at some point if I get the chance. Today I'm going to try the splash Siege Rhino version of the deck and also test out Pitiless Horde. Game Day is this weekend, so I'm trying to test out as many cards as I can. Will probably take Secure the Wastes on Friday if going Rhino doesn't pan out.
2 Temple of Malady
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Mana Confluence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Swamp
5 Plains
4 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Pitiless Horde
4 Siege Rhino
3 Wingmate Roc
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
3 Valorous Stance
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Ultimate Price
2 Bile Blight
3 Glare of Heresy
2 Erase
1 Radiant Purge
1 Utter End
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Merciless Executioner
2 Read the Bones
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
For the splash of green, I've simply replace Scoured Barrens with Sandsteppe Citadel and two Swamps with two Temple of Malady. I already had two Mana Confluences in there. I'm not sure if maybe I need another two sources of green or not.
The dream with Pitiless Horde is t1/2 disruption, t3 Horde, t4 Sorin, swing for 6 lifelink. But I do like how it's a flex 3/4 on the curve, depending on whether your hand wants to play Brimaz or Siege Rhino. My one issue with it, compared to my bae Mardu Strike Leader, is that it doesn't let me go wide, and it doesn't leave a blocker after I dash it, which is very useful in race situations.
What differentiates this from plain old Abzan is that we don't want Courser of Kruphix because its not a threat. I'm also not playing two drops, so Rakshasa Deathdealer or Fleecemane Lion simply aren't needed. And because we haven't leant too heavily on green in the manabase, Brimaz is still easily supported. We're still focusing on the powerful line of: Hand Disruption -> Effecient Threat, we've just added Rhino to the list of effecient threats.
One thing I did notice about Pitiless Horde is that it excelled in one matchup of the night: vs. a Mardu Control build. Their build played out very much like Abzan without Siege Rhinos. Lots of 1-for-1 removal and hand-disruption, interrupted by tapping out for planeswalkers. Against this deck, I would play a very controlling game, siding in Glare of Heresy and Utter End and wait for them to do something. When they tapped out for a planeswalker, for example, I would kill it and then dash the Horde for five damage. Eventually this just plain killed them. I'm wondering whether the Horde could translate into similar value vs. Abzan Control. That being said, Elspeth tokens just plain chump it to death. So maybe not. Either way, its very good out of the sideboard against UB Control.
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Merciless Executioner
2 Wingmate Roc
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Palace Siege
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Secure the Wastes
2 Valorous Stance
4 Thoughtseize
2 End Hostilities
2 Utter End
6 Plains
4 Scoured Barrens
5 Swamp
4 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Arashin Cleric
4 Duress
2 Merciless Executioner
2 Drown in Sorrow
1 Bile Blight
1 End Hostilities
1 Secure the waste
What I'm taking to FNM this week, only change being swapping 3 roc for 3 wrath to deal with the growing popularity of green devotion decks and GR Monsters more effectively.
(246-174-26)
(246-174-26)
One of my favourite things about this deck is how good the control matchup is. In all competition, haven't lost to a control deck yet. Thoughtseize + Duress tear them a part, and in my build, dashing is also really useful. Your ability to take over the board with a single creature, not having to over commit is sweet. That being said, I haven't been able to take on the more dragon heavy builds yet and I'm curious to see how I deal with their threats. Keeping in Downfall and Stance seem like safe hedges.
I actually sided in Merciless Executioner against UB Control once and absolutely wrecked the guy when he dropped Silumgar
2 Temple of Malady
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Mana Confluence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Swamp
5 Plains
4 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Mardu Strike Leader
4 Siege Rhino
3 Wingmate Roc
2 Secure the Wastes
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
3 Valorous Stance
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Ultimate Price
3 Glare of Heresy
2 Erase
1 Radiant Purge
1 Utter End
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Merciless Executioner
2 Read the Bones
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
HOWEVER, I did test out the two Secure the Wastes and while I didn't see them much, they did enough to pique my interest in trying out a more tokens oriented BW version of this deck. Maybe something like:
4 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Mardu Strike Leader
3 Wingmate Roc
4 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Duress
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Valorous Stance
The four Sorins may seem greedy, but the card is really good and feels like the biggest pay-off for playing tokens.