I would like to get an opinion on a deck that I am currently brewing. I haven't have all the cards yet for the deck so I wanted to get an opinion about it. Also some advice on the sideboard. I haven't played magic for a while just theory crafting and such.
Since mine are SB I usually only bring them in against control, whip, and slower midrange. Sometimes I'll bring it in against slower Rabblemaster decks in order to jump ahead in cards. I tend not to bring it in against Gx Ramp decks due to how quickly they can sometimes play their hand out. Perhaps it has a role when on the play.
Like dakid said, the card has its uses. Since I maindeck the card I often keep it in for post-SB for necessity since I have worse cards to take out. I take command out against most Siege Rhino decks - all variations of Abzan, and all Gx devotion decks. Against GRx dragon decks it's rarely stellar, but it can take out mana dudes so I usually keep it in since I don't have better cards to bring in in its place. If they play Caryatids and Raptors, I think I'd take it out though. People tend to play Rattleclaw Mystic because of the Morph synergies though, so that scenario has never come up. Even if Command isn't stellar, I always keep it in too if I can assume the role of the control player for the post board game. Against most W/R/x decks where Command has targets it's pretty awesome. As a side note, I've found Command to be a great spell for making sure I never get out-gassed against faster aggressive decks when I side into more spot removal, which can sometimes be a problem when you side out your high impact cards that are a bit too slow to keep in.
-----
I've been a little absent-minded for the past couple of weeks in terms of magic, so I'm just gonna make a quick wrap-up of the tournaments I've played since my last posting. Decklist is the same as above.
PPTQ (something):
16 players; 5 rounds of swiss and cut to top 4.
Round 1, Esper Dragons, 2-0
We get deck-checked and my opponent takes a game loss for an illegal decklist, giving me a free win. G2 My opponent gets land screwed and I quickly demolish him. Nothing much to write about this round.
Round 2, Bant Heroic, 2-0
Our car driver for this specific tournament. G1 I think I managed to stall the board with Xenagos's Satyr tokens against my opponent's fast start. I'm at a rather low life total, but fortunately my opponent's creatures in play are just Seeker of the Ways and only one Heroic-creature. My opponent doesn't get to "go off" at any point, until I draw into my fliers, including Kolaghan, to finish out the first game. G2 I think my opponent had to mulligan and faced some mana issues as well. Again I definitely had relatively luckier draws.
Round 3, GR Dragons, 1-2
I unfortunately lose the die roll for this game. His deck plays some Deathmist Raptors too, which means my only game plan is to race him in the air. I can't remember much of these games anymore - I didn't have as much luck with my draws this time around. I win the game which I get to be on play with handily, with a fast chandra pinging his mana guy. For G1 and G3 I think I didn't draw enough removal and fliers, which usually means a loss.
Round 4, GR Dragons, 2-1
This round was definitely the highlight of the tournament for me. G1 and G2 we both take a loss for having some mana issues while the other player curves out nicely. G3 we don't have any mana issues I think. We both trade resources and I'm doing OK since I had drawn into a couple of Ashcloud Pheonixes. A Stormbreath Dragon echanted with a Boon Satyr makes things more difficult for me though, since I've already taken some damage and I can't effectively race my opponent with Ashcloud Phoenixes since my opponent is still at a high life total. I'm grasping for straws since my opponent draws into more dragons while I don't have removal for the huge Stormbreath. I did however draw into a Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury. My opponent's lone Goblin token prevents me from hitting exactly lethals, so decide to try to deal him some chip damage and hope to generate a turn where I can dash for lethals, since the 8/6 Dragon is simply too huge for me to contend with. I attack with my other Phoenix while the other one chump blocks the Stormbreath for a couple of turns, getting flipped over at each EOT. The match was SUPER intense here, and I even received a warning for slow play at one point, but eventually I manage to create the turn where I dash my Kolaghan and hit will all fliers for lethals.
As a side note, I've started to bring in Self-Inflicted Wounds for these MUs - the floor for this card is pretty low in the mid and late game, but mana ramp is SUPER important in this MU, and the additional 2 lifeloss is also valuable.
Round 5, Mono-Red, 1-1-1
The win-and-in. My opponent has better tie breakers so a tie is enough for him to make the top 4, while I need a win. Unfortunately the store had no round clocks, my opponent was playing rather slowly, and I wasn't very mindful of our time consumption since it's not very common to tie against this deck. Unfortunately that is just what happens, especially since the game was already out of my opponent's reach, but I still can only blame myself for ruining this tournament for myself.
-----
I also played in the FNM last Frifay:
Round 1, Mardu Dragons, 2-1
Game 1 I think I had some issues with my draws, and I get destroyed by a Soulfire Grand Master buybacking my opponent's Kolaghan's Commands, undoing the work of my earlier removal spells spent on his Rabblemaster and a Thunderbreak Regent. G2 and G3 go much smoother for me - I think this MU is pretty close, but cards like Courser of Kruphix and Tasigur, the Golden Fang are great tools my opponent doesn't have access to.
Round 2, BW warrios, 2-0
My opponent's brew is quite powerful, but this MU is still quite favorable for me. My creatures are superior and removals all have targets. G1 I'm taking an early beating, but Xenagos gets out there to stabilize the board and I start to crawl back with the help of a couple of Coursers and a Tasigur. G2 is a much easier affair, since I draw into more removal spells and manage to clock my opponent dead with fliers with the help of his caves of koiloses.
Round 3, GR Dragons, 2-1
This time I manage to win the ever important die roll. G1 my opponent has some mana issues and so my Ashcloud Pheonixes get to pressure my opponent and win the game before he can cast all of his dragons. G2 I have a slow start and I get stomped bad. G3 I win on the play.
Round 4, Esper Dragons, 0-2
An unfortunate round for me. G1 I win the die roll, but my hand is terribly slow and my threats get answered. G2 I don't draw my 3rd land for several turns.
-----
The deck feels quite well rounded, and so I don't think I'm going to change anything for now.
I would like to get an opinion on a deck that I am currently brewing. I haven't have all the cards yet for the deck so I wanted to get an opinion about it. Also some advice on the sideboard. I haven't played magic for a while just theory crafting and such.
I would much prefer to play cards like Satyr Wayfinder and Deathmist Raptor in either Abzan or Sultai shells. This colour combination isn't really best posed to grind out the opponent - cards like Siege Rhino and Sidisi, the Brood Tyrant work much better towards that game plan than cards like Thunderbreak Regent and the Dragonlords. You should either make your deck's focal point the dragons or the Morph package, but not both.
I would like to get an opinion on a deck that I am currently brewing. I haven't have all the cards yet for the deck so I wanted to get an opinion about it. Also some advice on the sideboard. I haven't played magic for a while just theory crafting and such.
I would much prefer to play cards like Satyr Wayfinder and Deathmist Raptor in either Abzan or Sultai shells. This colour combination isn't really best posed to grind out the opponent - cards like Siege Rhino and Sidisi, the Brood Tyrant work much better towards that game plan than cards like Thunderbreak Regent and the Dragonlords. You should either make your deck's focal point the dragons or the Morph package, but not both.
You actually caught what I was trying to do . I do get what you are saying, I toyed with Suzan (Sultai x Abzan) before and I do think it works Deathmist Raptor works well in those shells. I just wanted to see if this combination have any potential and what better place to ask about it than people who had played with this color combination. Thanks for the input.
I would like to get an opinion on a deck that I am currently brewing. I haven't have all the cards yet for the deck so I wanted to get an opinion about it. Also some advice on the sideboard. I haven't played magic for a while just theory crafting and such.
I would much prefer to play cards like Satyr Wayfinder and Deathmist Raptor in either Abzan or Sultai shells. This colour combination isn't really best posed to grind out the opponent - cards like Siege Rhino and Sidisi, the Brood Tyrant work much better towards that game plan than cards like Thunderbreak Regent and the Dragonlords. You should either make your deck's focal point the dragons or the Morph package, but not both.
You actually caught what I was trying to do . I do get what you are saying, I toyed with Suzan (Sultai x Abzan) before and I do think it works Deathmist Raptor works well in those shells. I just wanted to see if this combination have any potential and what better place to ask about it than people who had played with this color combination. Thanks for the input.
Certainly. I didn't bother going into details and talking in context of the meta why I don't think this strategy is optimal in my opinion, since some other people have asked earlier about very similar builds. So if you scroll back this thread you might find some more analysis on that.
(Also, if you happen to have most of the cards, I do recommend giving my version of this deck a spin!)
Ive been interested in playing a jund dragons type deck, how has the recursion engine of den protector and kolaghans command worked out? Im thinking of making a build based on that is it possible?
hi, i was a jund player in the past and loved it, thats why i checked out this thread.
i play currently a abzan midrange deck and you saying, you like this MU, since u feel this MU favors you, made me wonder.
as a midrange player i think your kind of deck is excactly the kind of deck, my midrange deck shines against. i have far more answers for your drops in my deck, than you have.
why does it favor me ? you run elvish mystics and sylvan caryatids, cards to speed up your 4-6 mana threads, which i just answer with a 3 mana removal. so maybe you had a nice curve, but after you played 1 or 2 threads, your mana ramp creatures become useless and i dont need to care about them. u will eventually end up jump blocking with them. you need those ramp creatures to be effective, but vs a deck that runs usually 8 or more removal, you should not stand a chance, unless you get lucky, just because of the fact, that i have more potential game impact cards than you have.
This was my same question. With so many impactful cards, I don't see how this could be a favorable match-up in any way. I can hang through the ramp with my removal package and my endgame is more abrasive than yours. Would be helpful to hear your reasoning.
I threw this list together and played a couple friendlies against lower-tier decks. It's like a classic Jund deck, in that its floor really can't be too low because I'm just playing a bunch of good cards, but I'm not sure how good it is at its ceiling. I basically took the GR build and added a hefty amount of black -- Hero's Downfall, Crux of Fate, and Thoughtseize, along with a bunch of sideboard answers (Ultimate Price, more Thoughtseize, Duress, Self-Inflicted Wound).
I'd like some feedback before the last chance gp trials for montreal in two weeks, after some initial testing I'm thinking more Tasigur, As id like to get him out on t3 more often, but after looking at the previous lists here and blending them with my own this a kind of recur everything deck, the yard becomes a sweet toolbox.
I'd like some feedback before the last chance gp trials for montreal in two weeks, after some initial testing I'm thinking more Tasigur, As id like to get him out on t3 more often, but after looking at the previous lists here and blending them with my own this a kind of recur everything deck, the yard becomes a sweet toolbox.
After testing your list over and over I found out that you need a way to "get through". To many games I had so much gas and couldn't get through enough without raptor. It was raptor or die.
Thats the end result i found too, though I had added stoke for some more reach, most of the time i found myself with t2 den protector just to get some pressure on, it might be too "cute" but the wayfinder-den-command package just gives so much gas...ive done dragons to death (mardu-which i played at gp providence, jeskai and even just rakdos, the flores mono blue) without going that route any suggestions?
After looking at the BUG lists, become immense could work here, keep the red for xenagos and the command, my mana base does support the extra green and it could easily swap/replace the stokes. I'll have to try it tomorrow night. I must admit i am tempted by the BUG lists, tbh im looking for something non-whip/dragons/rhino as i have played all those lists to death and jeskai just isnt powerful enough yet, takes more finess to play than i have patience for.
So went 2-1 for second at fnm, 2-0 against bant megamorph, 0-2 against mardu dragons and 2-0 against gw company. Looks like red decks are a problem for my build. Swapping the stokes for becomes immense really help put my matches over the top. My sideboard for the night:
A MU I've come to like during my playtesting. G1 I end up drawing and things look nice since my hand is an Elvish Mystic, Thoughtseize, Roast, Xenagos, the Reveler and some lands - quite the perfect hand. Unfortunately my Xenagos get thoughtseized, I fail to draw into action and I lose to a triple Siege Rhino draw. Can't beat them all, right? G2 goes more on my way and on top of that my opponent gets stuck on 3 mana. G3 I keep a threat light hand including Thoughtseize and 2 Dragonlord Kolaghans. I draw into a Sylvan Caryatid and some Murderous Cuts, but my Kolaghans get answered and I have little time to draw more action until I get killed by Elspeth's soldier tokens. Once again a tough match to swallow, since I really think this MU is in my favor especially the post board games, but sometimes things don't break your way.
*DROP*
hi, i was a jund player in the past and loved it, thats why i checked out this thread.
i play currently a abzan midrange deck and you saying, you like this MU, since u feel this MU favors you, made me wonder.
as a midrange player i think your kind of deck is excactly the kind of deck, my midrange deck shines against. i have far more answers for your drops in my deck, than you have.
why does it favor me ? you run elvish mystics and sylvan caryatids, cards to speed up your 4-6 mana threads, which i just answer with a 3 mana removal. so maybe you had a nice curve, but after you played 1 or 2 threads, your mana ramp creatures become useless and i dont need to care about them. u will eventually end up jump blocking with them. you need those ramp creatures to be effective, but vs a deck that runs usually 8 or more removal, you should not stand a chance, unless you get lucky, just because of the fact, that i have more potential game impact cards than you have.
I realize this is like a month old question, but I'm going to answer it now anyway still I'm still playing with this deck and Abzan isn't going anywhere either.
Essentially the Abzan midrange/control decks are too slow to race me, and my threats are very resilient against most removal spells. Post SB I have Chandras, Xenagoses, Sarkhans and Ashcloud Phoenixes. All Downfalls and Abzan Charms are quite heavily taxed and if I can Thoughtseize them away then even more so. In G1 Siege Rhino is the only real problematic card since I have very few ways to kill it. Post SB I can play cards like Roast and Self-Inflicted Wound.
It's a close MU in any case and I don't have enough reps to guarantee It's positively a good MU, but that's how I've been feeling about it. Abzan is certainly better at gringing but if I can put them on their back foot I have good chance of winning.
I'd like some feedback before the last chance gp trials for montreal in two weeks, after some initial testing I'm thinking more Tasigur, As id like to get him out on t3 more often, but after looking at the previous lists here and blending them with my own this a kind of recur everything deck, the yard becomes a sweet toolbox.
Have you done changes to your deck since? If you find yourself wanting to break stalls, then adding some evasive threats is obviously something that could work. Dragonlord Kolaghan is the most powerful threat that can end the game on its own really fast.
Magic Origins has some pretty interesting cards that could potentially fit in this deck:
Nissa, Vastwood Seer: This is just the kind of deck Nissa would fit right into. I might try 1-2, but I'm not sure how to do it without hurting my manabase. I think I would need to play at least 3 or 4 forests to support her and that might be too steep a price. Avaricious Dragon: I love this effect and I think this card is super strong. Unfortunately my deck plays 5-6 mana spells as curve toppers and playing a 4-mana spell on turns 5-6 isn't something I'm thrilled about. It could be played in the SB but there are probably better choices then. Pia and Kiran Nalaar: this card doesn't have a very high power level, but it might be useful is some scenarios. The multiple bodies you get from this could be good against spot-removal decks, or work as an anti-aggro tool. I'm keeping an eye out for this card. Chandra's Ignition: The closest thing to Mizzium Mortars we got. Unfortunately this kills potentially a lot of your own stuff too which makes it a lot less appealing. It could have use as a SB card against decks that flood out the board but are resilient against Seismic Rupture. Gilt-Leaf Winnower: Another would-could card! Again, if there's a MU where this card is useful, it's going to be absolutely brutal. Right now I don't think I would want this card against any deck specifically. Gaea's Revenge: I don't think we need this card, but I'm glad it exists. Languish: I draw a close parallel to this and Chandra's Ignition. It kills a lot of our own stuff but there might exist some MUs where it's worth it. Tainted Remedy: I really love this effect. I don't think I'm playing this card in my SB until a need arises, but I'm glad this card exists. Could be useful against Whip decks, but many other cards are that too. Magmatic Insight: This might be the best candidate for new MD inclusions. It's basically a cantrip, but in the late game it's sometimes a draw 2 for 1 mana. The main reason to play this card is that it fuels delve quite effectively.
Become immense was a cheap way to help push through, especially on a den protector... Kolaghan is an interesting prospect to replace atarka, if only because of haste and 2 mana less. My version was so much fun to play, except it pretty much rolls over to red decks mainly due to the mana base. On the up side i never flooded, never got color screwed and that much felt great. Den pro, wayfinder and the command are so good together, too bad they dont have a better supporting cast. Im sort of working on origins atm, trying to figure out a better way to flip lilliana, coco into double lilli or lilli + fleshbag/executioner eot seems sweet. Not sure if i want to port into jund or g/b.
After some testing I decided to make some changes. Magmatic Insights were ok, but nothing stellar. However, I realized I've been recently liking and siding in Chandra in most of my MUs! So, I decided to move her in the MD once again. God I love this card. Chandra is another great tool against Control decks (UBx and Abzan alike) and can just wrecks many aggressive strategies. I especially like this move since Origins is bound to make Control decks and Aggro decks alike more appealing. I can't wait to destroy some goblin players with Chandra's +1!
I also updated the match-up and sideboarding part of the primer to reflect my current views, which I believe to be far more accurate than what they were at the time of the first writing of the Primer.
How do you guys think Jund will look post Theros Rotation? Do you think we could just replace the mana dorks with alternative options or do you think we'll have to go in a new direction?
How do you guys think Jund will look post Theros Rotation? Do you think we could just replace the mana dorks with alternative options or do you think we'll have to go in a new direction?
Obviously this all also depends on what we get In Battle for Zendikar, but just some food for thought.
I'm probably going to play Jund at FNM tonight, I'll post my deck and results when I get the chance.
for me the biggest problem is how to replace Courser of Kruphix. it's hard for me to see jund deck without courser since the effect is so unique. my deck is centered around evasive threats, so playing the deathmist raptor + den protector package is out of the question too since it would eat up too many slots.
i'm not worried though, since there is little reason to worry about what i'm going to play post Battle for Zendikar. i'm just going to enjoy this season to its fullest potential; the deck has performed very well and I'm excited about the metagame shifts that will take place after Origin becomes legal.
went 3-1 today in FNM, lost first around against RG dragons because of my stupid mistake. I won Mardu midrange and Impact Tremor aggro (Warden of the First Tree was brutal in the first game, won it alone) and my last opp scooped.
Heavily influenced by Tiemuuu's build. I was originally running Rabblemasters, Lightning Strikes and Thunderbreak Regents, but I swapped them for Caryatids, Ashcloud Phoenix, Tasigurs and another Xenagos and Kolaghan's Command.
My list is the only one that I've seen run the new Nissa, she's pretty awesome IMO. Also I love the sideboard options in these colors. Siding into 6 sweepers against elves and stuff is too much fun.
Heavily influenced by Tiemuuu's build. I was originally running Rabblemasters, Lightning Strikes and Thunderbreak Regents, but I swapped them for Caryatids, Ashcloud Phoenix, Tasigurs and another Xenagos and Kolaghan's Command.
My list is the only one that I've seen run the new Nissa, she's pretty awesome IMO. Also I love the sideboard options in these colors. Siding into 6 sweepers against elves and stuff is too much fun.
Nice to see someone else rocking Jund as well! Rabblemaster has certainly fallen out of favor in this standard - against many decks the ground gets gummed up and peple can throw excess bodied block and trade with Rabble. Xenagos in an exception, since he is resilient and far more powerful againstcontrolling decks, while providing mana acceleration when attacking on the ground isn't feasible.
I really like Nissa here, but I'd play 2 copies only since she's legendary and you basically only want one even until your 7th turn. I can't recommend enough that you swap your two curve toppers for Dragonlord Kolaghan - this card is simply amazing in this type of strategy, and it's the best possible trump against GR devotion and other green decks too.
I have played with Dragonlord for a few months now, and I don't think I've lost almost any game where I've ramped to six mana and cast Kolaghan - he's such a powerful threat that often immediately locks creature decks out of the game.
On the other end of spectrum, I'd also recommed trying out some elvish mystics, especially since you have plenty of ways to cast an early elf. In general though, just try out some things. I'm currently more involved in pushing my Grixis list, but I actually think my build of Jund was super solid and possible a better deck. Both of the decks do run some less played cards like Chandra and Kolaghan, which contribute to their power level a lot and give some edge you might not find in other decks
Good suggestions. Here's what my list looks like now. Also made some minor changes to the lands for maximum Turn 1 Elvish Mystics and swapped some cards in the sideboard for 3 Hornet Nests which some decks just cant beat.
Not sure if I want 1 or 2 Dragonlord Atarkas, would probably swap a Kolaghan's Command or a Hero's Downfall for the second one.
The synergy with Nissa, Sage Animist's +1, Chandra, Pyromaster's +0, and Courser of Kruphix and scry/fetch lands is pretty epic.
Good suggestions. Here's what my list looks like now. Also made some minor changes to the lands for maximum Turn 1 Elvish Mystics and swapped some cards in the sideboard for 3 Hornet Nests which some decks just cant beat.
Not sure if I want 1 or 2 Dragonlord Atarkas, would probably swap a Kolaghan's Command or a Hero's Downfall for the second one.
The synergy with Nissa, Sage Animist's +1, Chandra, Pyromaster's +0, and Courser of Kruphix and scry/fetch lands is pretty epic.
Courser and Chandra are certainly fantastic together - this is actually another thing that makes Chandra more powerful than Outpost Siege. Nissa seems pretty sweet with Courser too, whether you cast or flip it. Seems pretty great.
I wouldn't cut any Kolaghan's Command. This depends on your local meta of course, but I would assume the flip planeswalkers are going to see more and more play as we move forward, which makes Command a lot better. You really do need to kill Jace ASAP, especially against Jeskai tokens.
Perhaps I'd like to see and additional removal or two in general. Maybe a Murderous Cut in the MD - you can definitely support 3 delve cards in the MD, and Cut is just fantastic and much needed in many MUs.
4 Deathmist Raptor
4 Den Protector
3 Dragonlord Atarka
2 Dragonlord Kolaghan
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
4 Thunderbreak Regent
3 Kolaghan's Command
1 Silence the Believers
1 Ultimate Price
Enchantment Artifact
1 Whip of Erebos
Sorcery
1 Crux of Fate
1 Roast
1 See the Unwritten
2 Forest
4 Llanowar Wastes
5 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Malice
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Like dakid said, the card has its uses. Since I maindeck the card I often keep it in for post-SB for necessity since I have worse cards to take out. I take command out against most Siege Rhino decks - all variations of Abzan, and all Gx devotion decks. Against GRx dragon decks it's rarely stellar, but it can take out mana dudes so I usually keep it in since I don't have better cards to bring in in its place. If they play Caryatids and Raptors, I think I'd take it out though. People tend to play Rattleclaw Mystic because of the Morph synergies though, so that scenario has never come up. Even if Command isn't stellar, I always keep it in too if I can assume the role of the control player for the post board game. Against most W/R/x decks where Command has targets it's pretty awesome. As a side note, I've found Command to be a great spell for making sure I never get out-gassed against faster aggressive decks when I side into more spot removal, which can sometimes be a problem when you side out your high impact cards that are a bit too slow to keep in.
-----
I've been a little absent-minded for the past couple of weeks in terms of magic, so I'm just gonna make a quick wrap-up of the tournaments I've played since my last posting. Decklist is the same as above.
PPTQ (something):
16 players; 5 rounds of swiss and cut to top 4.
Round 1, Esper Dragons, 2-0
We get deck-checked and my opponent takes a game loss for an illegal decklist, giving me a free win. G2 My opponent gets land screwed and I quickly demolish him. Nothing much to write about this round.
Round 2, Bant Heroic, 2-0
Our car driver for this specific tournament. G1 I think I managed to stall the board with Xenagos's Satyr tokens against my opponent's fast start. I'm at a rather low life total, but fortunately my opponent's creatures in play are just Seeker of the Ways and only one Heroic-creature. My opponent doesn't get to "go off" at any point, until I draw into my fliers, including Kolaghan, to finish out the first game. G2 I think my opponent had to mulligan and faced some mana issues as well. Again I definitely had relatively luckier draws.
Round 3, GR Dragons, 1-2
I unfortunately lose the die roll for this game. His deck plays some Deathmist Raptors too, which means my only game plan is to race him in the air. I can't remember much of these games anymore - I didn't have as much luck with my draws this time around. I win the game which I get to be on play with handily, with a fast chandra pinging his mana guy. For G1 and G3 I think I didn't draw enough removal and fliers, which usually means a loss.
Round 4, GR Dragons, 2-1
This round was definitely the highlight of the tournament for me. G1 and G2 we both take a loss for having some mana issues while the other player curves out nicely. G3 we don't have any mana issues I think. We both trade resources and I'm doing OK since I had drawn into a couple of Ashcloud Pheonixes. A Stormbreath Dragon echanted with a Boon Satyr makes things more difficult for me though, since I've already taken some damage and I can't effectively race my opponent with Ashcloud Phoenixes since my opponent is still at a high life total. I'm grasping for straws since my opponent draws into more dragons while I don't have removal for the huge Stormbreath. I did however draw into a Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury. My opponent's lone Goblin token prevents me from hitting exactly lethals, so decide to try to deal him some chip damage and hope to generate a turn where I can dash for lethals, since the 8/6 Dragon is simply too huge for me to contend with. I attack with my other Phoenix while the other one chump blocks the Stormbreath for a couple of turns, getting flipped over at each EOT. The match was SUPER intense here, and I even received a warning for slow play at one point, but eventually I manage to create the turn where I dash my Kolaghan and hit will all fliers for lethals.
As a side note, I've started to bring in Self-Inflicted Wounds for these MUs - the floor for this card is pretty low in the mid and late game, but mana ramp is SUPER important in this MU, and the additional 2 lifeloss is also valuable.
Round 5, Mono-Red, 1-1-1
The win-and-in. My opponent has better tie breakers so a tie is enough for him to make the top 4, while I need a win. Unfortunately the store had no round clocks, my opponent was playing rather slowly, and I wasn't very mindful of our time consumption since it's not very common to tie against this deck. Unfortunately that is just what happens, especially since the game was already out of my opponent's reach, but I still can only blame myself for ruining this tournament for myself.
-----
I also played in the FNM last Frifay:
Round 1, Mardu Dragons, 2-1
Game 1 I think I had some issues with my draws, and I get destroyed by a Soulfire Grand Master buybacking my opponent's Kolaghan's Commands, undoing the work of my earlier removal spells spent on his Rabblemaster and a Thunderbreak Regent. G2 and G3 go much smoother for me - I think this MU is pretty close, but cards like Courser of Kruphix and Tasigur, the Golden Fang are great tools my opponent doesn't have access to.
Round 2, BW warrios, 2-0
My opponent's brew is quite powerful, but this MU is still quite favorable for me. My creatures are superior and removals all have targets. G1 I'm taking an early beating, but Xenagos gets out there to stabilize the board and I start to crawl back with the help of a couple of Coursers and a Tasigur. G2 is a much easier affair, since I draw into more removal spells and manage to clock my opponent dead with fliers with the help of his caves of koiloses.
Round 3, GR Dragons, 2-1
This time I manage to win the ever important die roll. G1 my opponent has some mana issues and so my Ashcloud Pheonixes get to pressure my opponent and win the game before he can cast all of his dragons. G2 I have a slow start and I get stomped bad. G3 I win on the play.
Round 4, Esper Dragons, 0-2
An unfortunate round for me. G1 I win the die roll, but my hand is terribly slow and my threats get answered. G2 I don't draw my 3rd land for several turns.
-----
The deck feels quite well rounded, and so I don't think I'm going to change anything for now.
Youtube Channel
I would much prefer to play cards like Satyr Wayfinder and Deathmist Raptor in either Abzan or Sultai shells. This colour combination isn't really best posed to grind out the opponent - cards like Siege Rhino and Sidisi, the Brood Tyrant work much better towards that game plan than cards like Thunderbreak Regent and the Dragonlords. You should either make your deck's focal point the dragons or the Morph package, but not both.
Youtube Channel
You actually caught what I was trying to do . I do get what you are saying, I toyed with Suzan (Sultai x Abzan) before and I do think it works Deathmist Raptor works well in those shells. I just wanted to see if this combination have any potential and what better place to ask about it than people who had played with this color combination. Thanks for the input.
Certainly. I didn't bother going into details and talking in context of the meta why I don't think this strategy is optimal in my opinion, since some other people have asked earlier about very similar builds. So if you scroll back this thread you might find some more analysis on that.
(Also, if you happen to have most of the cards, I do recommend giving my version of this deck a spin!)
Youtube Channel
This was my same question. With so many impactful cards, I don't see how this could be a favorable match-up in any way. I can hang through the ramp with my removal package and my endgame is more abrasive than yours. Would be helpful to hear your reasoning.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
Spells (12)
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Lightning Strike
2 Thoughtseize
2 Crux of Fate
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Malice
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Anger of the Gods
2 Duress
4 Self-Inflicted Wound
2 Thoughtseize
3 Ultimate Price
Some obvious immediate changes: Lightning Strike to Draconic Roar, -1 Hero's Downfall and -1 land for +2 top-end threat (candidates: Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury, Dragonlord Kolaghan, Dragonlord Atarka, Garruk, Apex Predator, with Storm's Fury slightly ahead of the pack).
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
4 Llanowar Wastes
2 Mountain
3 Swamp
1 Temple of Abandon
2 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Malice
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Deathmist Raptor
4 Den Protector
1 Dragonlord Atarka
4 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Spells
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Kolaghan's Command
2 Stoke the Flames
3 Thoughtseize
2 Ultimate Price
2 Wild Slash
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
I'd like some feedback before the last chance gp trials for montreal in two weeks, after some initial testing I'm thinking more Tasigur, As id like to get him out on t3 more often, but after looking at the previous lists here and blending them with my own this a kind of recur everything deck, the yard becomes a sweet toolbox.
After testing your list over and over I found out that you need a way to "get through". To many games I had so much gas and couldn't get through enough without raptor. It was raptor or die.
I see the raptor/den in abzan and devotion lists....but it always seemed more of a BUG type synergy to me. Maybe a few bounce effects? I dunno.
I'll tweak a BUG/RUG/BURG list too when I have time today.
3 Rending Volley
3 Siesmic Rupture
4 Self Inflicted Wound
1 Plummet
2 Silence the Believers
To shore up against red decks i thinking to switch the silence the believers for feed the clan, any other suggestions?
I realize this is like a month old question, but I'm going to answer it now anyway still I'm still playing with this deck and Abzan isn't going anywhere either.
Essentially the Abzan midrange/control decks are too slow to race me, and my threats are very resilient against most removal spells. Post SB I have Chandras, Xenagoses, Sarkhans and Ashcloud Phoenixes. All Downfalls and Abzan Charms are quite heavily taxed and if I can Thoughtseize them away then even more so. In G1 Siege Rhino is the only real problematic card since I have very few ways to kill it. Post SB I can play cards like Roast and Self-Inflicted Wound.
It's a close MU in any case and I don't have enough reps to guarantee It's positively a good MU, but that's how I've been feeling about it. Abzan is certainly better at gringing but if I can put them on their back foot I have good chance of winning.
Youtube Channel
Have you done changes to your deck since? If you find yourself wanting to break stalls, then adding some evasive threats is obviously something that could work. Dragonlord Kolaghan is the most powerful threat that can end the game on its own really fast.
Magic Origins has some pretty interesting cards that could potentially fit in this deck:
Nissa, Vastwood Seer: This is just the kind of deck Nissa would fit right into. I might try 1-2, but I'm not sure how to do it without hurting my manabase. I think I would need to play at least 3 or 4 forests to support her and that might be too steep a price.
Avaricious Dragon: I love this effect and I think this card is super strong. Unfortunately my deck plays 5-6 mana spells as curve toppers and playing a 4-mana spell on turns 5-6 isn't something I'm thrilled about. It could be played in the SB but there are probably better choices then.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar: this card doesn't have a very high power level, but it might be useful is some scenarios. The multiple bodies you get from this could be good against spot-removal decks, or work as an anti-aggro tool. I'm keeping an eye out for this card.
Chandra's Ignition: The closest thing to Mizzium Mortars we got. Unfortunately this kills potentially a lot of your own stuff too which makes it a lot less appealing. It could have use as a SB card against decks that flood out the board but are resilient against Seismic Rupture.
Gilt-Leaf Winnower: Another would-could card! Again, if there's a MU where this card is useful, it's going to be absolutely brutal. Right now I don't think I would want this card against any deck specifically.
Gaea's Revenge: I don't think we need this card, but I'm glad it exists.
Languish: I draw a close parallel to this and Chandra's Ignition. It kills a lot of our own stuff but there might exist some MUs where it's worth it.
Tainted Remedy: I really love this effect. I don't think I'm playing this card in my SB until a need arises, but I'm glad this card exists. Could be useful against Whip decks, but many other cards are that too.
Magmatic Insight: This might be the best candidate for new MD inclusions. It's basically a cantrip, but in the late game it's sometimes a draw 2 for 1 mana. The main reason to play this card is that it fuels delve quite effectively.
This is what I'm testing currently:
1 Warden of the First Tree
2 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Den Protector
2 Dragonlord Kolaghan
Other:
2 Thoughtseize
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Ultimate Price
3 Murderous Cut
3 Magmatic Insight
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
3 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Malice
3 Llanowar Wastes
1 Duress
3 Self-Inflicted Wound
2 Roast
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Seismic Rupture
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Thoughtseize
Youtube Channel
This also freed some precious SB slots, witch I'm devoting to adding extra Self-Inflicted Wound, Seismic Rupture and Thoughtseize.
I also updated the match-up and sideboarding part of the primer to reflect my current views, which I believe to be far more accurate than what they were at the time of the first writing of the Primer.
1 Warden of the First Tree
3 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Ashcloud Phoenix
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Den Protector
2 Dragonlord Kolaghan
Other:
2 Thoughtseize
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Ultimate Price
2 Murderous Cut
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
3 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Malice
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Duress
3 Self-Inflicted Wound
2 Roast
4 Seismic Rupture
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Thoughtseize
Youtube Channel
Possible Replacments:
Courser of Kruphix -> Shaman of Forgotten Ways
Sylvan Caryatid -> Rattleclaw Mystic
Elvish Mystic -> Honored Hierarch
Thoughtseize -> Despise
Or do you guys think Jund should switch direction changing around the color ratios and go with something including:
Liliana, Heretical Healer
Evolutionary Leap
Obviously this all also depends on what we get In Battle for Zendikar, but just some food for thought.
I'm probably going to play Jund at FNM tonight, I'll post my deck and results when I get the chance.
for me the biggest problem is how to replace Courser of Kruphix. it's hard for me to see jund deck without courser since the effect is so unique. my deck is centered around evasive threats, so playing the deathmist raptor + den protector package is out of the question too since it would eat up too many slots.
i'm not worried though, since there is little reason to worry about what i'm going to play post Battle for Zendikar. i'm just going to enjoy this season to its fullest potential; the deck has performed very well and I'm excited about the metagame shifts that will take place after Origin becomes legal.
went 3-1 today in FNM, lost first around against RG dragons because of my stupid mistake. I won Mardu midrange and Impact Tremor aggro (Warden of the First Tree was brutal in the first game, won it alone) and my last opp scooped.
Youtube Channel
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Courser of Kruphix
4x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3x Ashcloud Phoenix
1x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Tasigur, The Golden Fang
1x Dragonlord Atarka
Instants and Sorceries (11):
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hero's Downfall
2x Kolaghan's Command
1x Crux of Fate
Planeswalkers (5):
2x Xenagos the Reveler
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Temple of Abandon
3x Temple of Malice
2x Temple of Malady
3x Llanowar Wastes
3x Forest
2x Mountain
2x Swamp
4x Duress
4x Anger of the Gods
2x Kolaghan's Command
2x Languish
2x Destructive Revelry
1x Garruk, Apex Predator
Heavily influenced by Tiemuuu's build. I was originally running Rabblemasters, Lightning Strikes and Thunderbreak Regents, but I swapped them for Caryatids, Ashcloud Phoenix, Tasigurs and another Xenagos and Kolaghan's Command.
My list is the only one that I've seen run the new Nissa, she's pretty awesome IMO. Also I love the sideboard options in these colors. Siding into 6 sweepers against elves and stuff is too much fun.
Nice to see someone else rocking Jund as well! Rabblemaster has certainly fallen out of favor in this standard - against many decks the ground gets gummed up and peple can throw excess bodied block and trade with Rabble. Xenagos in an exception, since he is resilient and far more powerful againstcontrolling decks, while providing mana acceleration when attacking on the ground isn't feasible.
I really like Nissa here, but I'd play 2 copies only since she's legendary and you basically only want one even until your 7th turn. I can't recommend enough that you swap your two curve toppers for Dragonlord Kolaghan - this card is simply amazing in this type of strategy, and it's the best possible trump against GR devotion and other green decks too.
I have played with Dragonlord for a few months now, and I don't think I've lost almost any game where I've ramped to six mana and cast Kolaghan - he's such a powerful threat that often immediately locks creature decks out of the game.
On the other end of spectrum, I'd also recommed trying out some elvish mystics, especially since you have plenty of ways to cast an early elf. In general though, just try out some things. I'm currently more involved in pushing my Grixis list, but I actually think my build of Jund was super solid and possible a better deck. Both of the decks do run some less played cards like Chandra and Kolaghan, which contribute to their power level a lot and give some edge you might not find in other decks
Youtube Channel
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Courser of Kruphix
2x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3x Ashcloud Phoenix
2x Tasigur, The Golden Fang
2x Dragonlord Kolaghan
1x Dragonlord Atarka
Instants and Sorceries (5):
2x Thoughtseize
3x Hero's Downfall
1x Kolaghan's Command
3x Xenagos, the Reveler
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
2x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Lands (25):
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Llanowar Wastes
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Temple of Abandon
2x Temple of Malice
1x Temple of Malady
4x Forest
2x Mountain
2x Swamp
3x Duress
3x Anger of the Gods
3x Hornet Nest
2x Kolaghan's Command
2x Destructive Revelry
1x Languish
1x Garruk, Apex Predator
Not sure if I want 1 or 2 Dragonlord Atarkas, would probably swap a Kolaghan's Command or a Hero's Downfall for the second one.
The synergy with Nissa, Sage Animist's +1, Chandra, Pyromaster's +0, and Courser of Kruphix and scry/fetch lands is pretty epic.
Courser and Chandra are certainly fantastic together - this is actually another thing that makes Chandra more powerful than Outpost Siege. Nissa seems pretty sweet with Courser too, whether you cast or flip it. Seems pretty great.
I wouldn't cut any Kolaghan's Command. This depends on your local meta of course, but I would assume the flip planeswalkers are going to see more and more play as we move forward, which makes Command a lot better. You really do need to kill Jace ASAP, especially against Jeskai tokens.
Perhaps I'd like to see and additional removal or two in general. Maybe a Murderous Cut in the MD - you can definitely support 3 delve cards in the MD, and Cut is just fantastic and much needed in many MUs.
Youtube Channel