Windstorm isn't where you want to be in most cases, I think. Control decks can easily counter it on sight and make you sink a lot of mana for nothing (although I suppose if you're careful about it, you might be able to take down Silumgar that way, an ability which this color pairing sorely lacks otherwise), and it's an overly expensive tempo play most of the time against Atarka Dragons (you're not hitting Atarka with it ever, and it's more mana-efficient to use Plummet or Valorous Stance to snipe Stormbreath and Thunderbreak respectively).
In basically any case but Silumgar, I'd rather have Plummet out of the board, and I'd be really skittish about X=7 Windstorm with the existence of Counterspell, Negate, Dissolve and Disdainful Stroke. They're not just gonna let you kill Drifty D after all.
More mana-efficient, yes. However, when they curve Thunderbreak Regent into Stormbreath, or go Thunderbreak -> Thunderbreak, drawing Plummet as your removal spell is going to hurt and could cost you the game, anyway. It's obviously not IDEAL, but I don't see a Raking Canopy reprint in our near future.
Or we could go the route of other G/x decks and include Arbor Colossus in some number in the 75, but I'm not sure how well a non-haste 5-drop would work in an aggressive deck.
Windstorm is definitely better if they curve into multiple dragons before you topdeck your removal, and I admit I haven't tested a lot with Windstorm, but my impression from extensive Plummet testing and limited Windstorm testing is that I was generally far more satisfied with being able to snipe 1 dragon for 1G than I was 2 for 4G. I'm not saying Windstorm is bad, I just think Plummet is better for what they try to do.
And I think Arbor Colossus is necessary in the mainboard right now. We desperately need strong game against both Atarka Dragons and Esper Dragons, and Colossus is probably the best creature in our colors for going over the top of them. If you're running Surrak he can have haste, but you don't even really need it because you're keeping him back to block their dragons until you're ready to race. I know that's not what aggressive decks want to do with their 5-drop big dude, but you only need another turn or two of setup, and as you're doing it he can Monstrosity and snipe a dragon.
Also, for anyone who cares, I updated my report on my deck with matchup data.
Last FNM I used a Deathmist Raptor + Den Protector fast aggro Selesnya deck. It didn't do very well; the cards I needed didn't show up about half the time and the control matchup was a disaster.
So I threw this together. Instead of a fast, on-the-ground aggro strategy, why not abuse all the access to great ramp Green has right now? Ramp into some seriously threatening creatures and fantastic planeswalkers.
It played pretty well during playtesting against a few different kinds of decks. I'm not sold on Frontier Siege just yet, and as good as Fleecemane Lion is, I could probably stand to cut it for something that gets me dropping dragons more quickly.
It seems to do alright as it is, but I was looking for some input on the cards I am considering.
What do you guys think I could do without? What cards did I miss for this deck that would make it even better/more reliable? Really any kind of commentary or assistance would be much appreciated.
I've been playing a pretty similar version of GW Midrange, but I haven't tested Ajani yet. Can you tell me more about it please ? I really like the card but I'm concerned with 2 things:
1. Against decks like UB/Esper control, it just gets countered or dies straight away with a hero's downfall.
2. Against Aggro/Midrange decks, you end up paying 5 mana for a +3/+3 or for a commune with the gods effect. It's very unlikely you will be able to cast anything else the same turn, so it really doesn't do much for 5 mana when it hits the battlefield (unlike Sarkhan, Elspeth, etc...). The worst part is that you probably have to keep your creatures untapped (i.e. you won't be able to attack) when you cast Ajani, because you need a blocker to protect it.
I may be wrong but these are the first things that come to mind when I think about Ajani.
Also, don't you think that 24 lands is a bit too low ? The thing with this deck is that there's always something to do with your mana : make your lion/colossus monstrous, evolve your warden, cast boon satyr etc...
Final question: how do you play agaisnt UB/Esper control ? This is probably the deck i struggle the most against, and I'm playing a version with 3 copies of gods willing maindeck (which helps A LOT against Esper/UB and monored).
Sorry I missed this earlier, I stopped checking the thread after I switched back to Abzan lol. Happy to help if I can!
Regarding Ajani, Mentor of Heroes, he was a flex spot in my deck. I boarded him out a lot. I would agree that he's a questionable inclusion - although I really liked casting him and using all his abilities, on paper the power level just isn't there compared to other stuff you could be doing. That said, Ajani is often better in any given matchup than a sideboard card I would use, so he's a good choice for the maindeck even if he gets boarded out a lot. For example, I had 2 Hornet Nests and 2 Mistcutter Hydras in the final version of the sideboard I used. Hydra was much better than Ajani against control, and Nest was much better than Ajani against aggro, but Ajani wasn't a dead card in either matchup (where Hornet Nest does nothing against control and Mistcutter Hydra is usually very inefficient and low-impact).
If Ajani is getting countered or downfalled, though, that's probably a good thing for us. We have a bunch of threats to jam in against control and if they expend valuable resources killing Ajani - a must-answer card that isn't actually a direct threat to kill us - then we've won that battle. Typically control decks these days handle Ajani by resolving Silumgar, the Drifting Death or Dragonlord Ojutai and beating his face in, which is less desirable but still buys time.
Ajani isn't the best card to have against aggro for sure, but keeping blockers back isn't a problem; in fact that's where Ajani is best off, because you beat aggro decks almost the instant you stabilize against them, and until you do that you're keeping creatures back to block anyway. Ajani helps you stabilize by making 1-2 blockers too costly to swing past and too big to burn out. If your opponent spends additional turns after that swinging at Ajani instead of you, then you've spent one turn tapping out for Ajani to net 2+ turns of them swinging at Ajani to kill him, which is all you should need to stabilize by the time you can cast him.
So basically, regarding Ajani:
(1) He's never the best card in a given matchup and I frequently board him out; BUT
(2) He's never the worst card in a given matchup, so you're probably better off with him game 1 than anything you'd put in from the sideboard;
(3) He's basically there to shorten the window aggro decks have to clock you and to stretch further the limited resources control has to answer all your threats.
I can see and support a 60 without him, and if you're not maindecking him you probably shouldn't be using him at all. Your intuition is probably right that you could be doing something better with him in any given game, the question is just finding something consistently better enough to justify including it over Ajani.
As for lands, 24 is the low-end I would do. I've never had mana issues with the deck but would support a list with 25 lands, especially ones with Elspeth, Sun's Champion (who I think is just a bit too costly for 24 lands). I dunno if I'd go to 26+, some of the pros have gone that direction with Abzan Aggro (a deck which I think is fundamentally similar to this one) and I just don't like it. Don't really see the point because you hit your land drops almost all the time at 25 and you have enough density with your colors at 25. 26 would probably be for heavier top-end value decks, but at that point I wouldn't really want to be in strict GW colors; the other 3 colors give you inexpensive and good interaction (removal, burn, or counters as need be), along with stronger top-end cards (Siege Rhino, Stormbreath Dragon, Dragonlord Ojutai).
Against control it's just about playing more threats than they can answer. Stuff like Gods Willing and Valorous Stance is cool, especially Valorous Stance since you get an answer for non-hexproof Dragons and a counterspell all in one card. I wouldn't go too high on the non-threat spells though, postboard I have 4 (the Stances). I think Den Protector is probably a must-have here for the block clause alone; getting her to 4 power is trivial in a deck with Commands and Ajanis with her Megamorph, and then she can swing through Silumgar. I would probably go with the Deathmist Raptor package as well for this matchup. I'm not sure how I'd edit the deck to get them in exactly, but I know I would be doing this. You don't even need to switch to a morph look necessarily, they slot in well enough on their own.
I ended up going 5-1-1 in rounds (intentional draw into Top 8), but lost my Top 8 match to end up at 7th place.
Wins: Mono-B humans, 2x Atarka Red, Chromantiflayer, UW Control
Loss: G/W Collected Company (mirror)
That's right. I never went up against Esper Dragons.
The Atarka Red matches were the ones that gave me the most fits. Against one opponent I went down to 4 and started to sweat. Then he Wild Slashed me to take me to 2 which I almost Dromoka's Commanded, but opted not to because it wasn't lethal. Good thing, too, because he tried to Stoke the Flames me a turn later which got Commanded, instead. I then proceeded to take myself down to 1 off Mana Confluence in order to close out the game.
The second Atarka Red match went similar, but I was able to find Nylea's Disciple at very opportune times to jump back out of burn range.
I could have won the mirror match if I had just been a little more aggressive. The deciding turn was me swinging with only 1 creature instead of both so I would have a blocker in case he cast Collected Company at my EOT, but he didn't. On my next attack, he casts Company which hits Hornet Nest and he blocks my Boon Satyr to get 4 hornets that kill me on the crack back.
In Top 8 I lost to R/G Dragons. The match was rough, but I was able to hold out for 3 games, one of which I punted by attacking Surrak and Lion into a Thunderbreak Regent when I should have just swung Surrak.
Overall, I really like the deck. Swapping out Reverent Hunters for Deathmist Raptors made a huge difference and added a whole new dimension to the deck. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to do a lot of Den Protector + Raptor shenanigans throughout the day, but Protector by itself was great.
Surrak, the Hunt Caller was great, but seeing him in a CC stack was disheartening and it happened fairly often. Swapping him out for Brimaz, King of Oreskos means that every creature in the main deck can be grabbed off a CC. I'll miss my Windstorm tech in the side, but Hornet Nest will be better in the matches where Windstorm would normally come in and it will help a lot with the R/x aggro matches.
I modified Bram's core deck to fit a little better in my current meta which is currently Esper Dragons. The whole idea is to get under the deck with quick value creatures. The Deathmist Raptor/Den Protector combo when paired with Dromoka's Command is hard to overcome.
Ran this last FNM 5/1/15, the deck performed exceptionally well netting me into the finals. We both decided to draw and split the 1st/2nd place prize as it was getting late.
Highlights below:
Round 1 - Creatureless Mardu. Win 2-1. I was just too fast for the most part. Mana screw in the game I lost in this match.
Round 2 - U/W/G Heroic. Draw 1-1-1. I built the wall until I could run him out of protection spells and was able to make his main guy fight the Deathmist Raptor via a Dromoka's Command, or just killed it with a Valorous Stance. Because of the Game 1 Stalemate, we ran to time near the start of game 3.
Round 3 - B/W/U/R - Dragon homebrew. Win 2-0. Way too slow.
Round 4 - R/W/G - Dragons. Loss 0-2. Good player, I couldn't get ahead and got dragon pounded.
Top 8 - U/W/G Heroic Player from Round 2. Win 2-0. Perfect draws, just ran over him.
Top 4 - B/U/W Dragon Control. Win 2-0. Deck goes under control. Had to pull in the additional two Mastery of the Unseen to stabilize on life.
Top 2 - Finals - R/W/G - Dragons. Same player from Round 4. We know each other and drew it to split the store credit.
Deathmist Raptor & Den Protector - Den Protector can loop by getting back another Den Protector. When it flips up cheaply, it pulls back any Raptors in the yard, in addition to being able to fetch up what you need at the time you need it!
Let me know if you have any questions around my deck or play.
I've made it to top 4 and split the finals of consecutive fnms the past two weeks playing this deck. I don't normally play standard and haven't played the format since the KTK pro tour.
Would love to see some sideboarding guides from you guys and other opinions on other card options!
So I don't know if people just don't care or are living in a different world, but this was one of the most played decks at GP San Diego.
I don't think it's particularly good but Kibler did well with it in standard at the PT and a lot of pros jumped on the hype train. It's good vs. a wide field although doesn't maul anyone in particular.
I'm thinking about sleeving it up for an FNM real quick but was curious if anyone else had been given this a spin.
So I don't know if people just don't care or are living in a different world, but this was one of the most played decks at GP San Diego.
I don't think it's particularly good but Kibler did well with it in standard at the PT and a lot of pros jumped on the hype train. It's good vs. a wide field although doesn't maul anyone in particular.
I'm thinking about sleeving it up for an FNM real quick but was curious if anyone else had been given this a spin.
Thanks for bumping the thread, Lugger! I looked through the first few pages the other day, but didn't see anything matching the Kibler list, and I was just as confused as you.
I was playing a fairly rogue (and surprisingly competitive) GW Hardened Scales list, but for this week I think I'll drink the kool-aid and play something close to Kibler. Here's what I was looking at:
Changes to the maindeck are -1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer, -1 Boon Satyr, +1 Dromoka's Command, and +1 Lelspeth, Meme's Champion. 3 Nissa seems overkill for a deck that's running 4 Den Protector to recur and 2 Ajani to find them. For the same reasoning, a maindeck fun-of Elspeth seems pretty great for the mirror and for Abzan. 4 Dromoka's Command in the 75, if not 60, should be the rule, not the exception, for any GWx deck that's even remotely aggressive right now. It's never been as busted as it is right now, and that's saying something. The Boon Satyr comes out because it's mostly going to be bestowed, and is a comparable CMC to Elspeth.
The sideboard has an extra Elspeth, because she's nuts against so many decks, and games tend to slow down a bit post-board. As she's also quite a beating against this deck, and due to the prevalence of this particular archetype (or at least color pairing) right now, I wanted a second Glare of Heresy as well. I'm also quite partial to Revoke Existence over Unravel the Aether since it exiles, not giving an opponent like UR Mill the chance to find their important card again.
I know it doesn't look impressive on paper, but from goldfishing the deck (and the obvious results it has had), it seems quite good. I look forward to hearing/talking about it some more in the future.
EDIT: this already existed? Where are you people?! Why no talk?
A few weeks ago, Brian Kibler brought a new deck to the professional circuit and went 9-1 with it. Other pro's picked up on it and decided that it was a good deck and it's been placing in the top level ever since. G/W Megamorph is an aggressive midrange deck that eats mono-red aggro for breakfast, munches on Thopters for lunch, and has game against Tutelage and a whole range of other decks in the meta game.
So it's about time a thread appears in MTG Salvation to discuss it. Below is the 4th place deck from GP London:
As it stands, I think the deck is advantaged against more aggressive decks and disadvantaged against devotion and control decks.
There are ways to evolve the deck. It may be that simply adding black for Abzan is more effective, but there are trade offs. Another route is to focus on +1 counters, perhaps with Hardened Scales, and then you focus on Managorger Hydra and Hangarback Walker. You could also go into Whisperwood and Mastery of the Unseen for a more devotion-oriented take.
So far I only have one concern for this deck: How does it deal with Languish? It seems except for Hangarback walker it just rolls over and dies, and there's very little that can be done about it. With the rise of Abzan control featuring this card, it all seems like trouble to me.
Like if only there was a Siege Rhino in the mix things would be so much better. But if we don't add black, what's the plan? What's the best way to develop this deck to fight things like Abzan Control?
So far I only have one concern for this deck: How does it deal with Languish? It seems except for Hangarback walker it just rolls over and dies, and there's very little that can be done about it. With the rise of Abzan control featuring this card, it all seems like trouble to me.
Like if only there was a Siege Rhino in the mix things would be so much better. But if we don't add black, what's the plan? What's the best way to develop this deck to fight things like Abzan Control?
When I played Selesnya, even before Languish, I just went bigger. Dromoka, the Eternal and Dragonlord Dromoka help get there. I also played Surrak, the Hunt Caller, which survives with Dromoka's Command. I never felt like adding a third color was needed either, because the mana is pretty much perfect. I got away with just 4 tapped lands, which absolutely punished Abzan if they stumbled just a little on mana. But we also have built-in recursion with Deathmist Raptor and Den Protector, assuming Raptor hasn't been exiled by Charm or Anafenza.
Granted, that's a totally different build than what Kibler was doing though.
So far I only have one concern for this deck: How does it deal with Languish? It seems except for Hangarback walker it just rolls over and dies, and there's very little that can be done about it. With the rise of Abzan control featuring this card, it all seems like trouble to me.
Like if only there was a Siege Rhino in the mix things would be so much better. But if we don't add black, what's the plan? What's the best way to develop this deck to fight things like Abzan Control?
The deck is inherently weak to Abzan Control. Perhaps it's even worse against Abzan Aggro.
Surrak, the Hunt Caller really only helps in respect to pushing damage quickly through. Less so when the ground is cluttered or when everyone and their mom has 3-4x Hangarback Walkers gumming up the ground.
Elspeth is really the best plan of attack. Otherwise you're just doing weak things. Dragonlord Dromoka is also a reasonable card as is Wingmate Roc. Roc is the worst of the bunch against Languish and Dragons but good in the attrition MUs.
More mana-efficient, yes. However, when they curve Thunderbreak Regent into Stormbreath, or go Thunderbreak -> Thunderbreak, drawing Plummet as your removal spell is going to hurt and could cost you the game, anyway. It's obviously not IDEAL, but I don't see a Raking Canopy reprint in our near future.
Or we could go the route of other G/x decks and include Arbor Colossus in some number in the 75, but I'm not sure how well a non-haste 5-drop would work in an aggressive deck.
And I think Arbor Colossus is necessary in the mainboard right now. We desperately need strong game against both Atarka Dragons and Esper Dragons, and Colossus is probably the best creature in our colors for going over the top of them. If you're running Surrak he can have haste, but you don't even really need it because you're keeping him back to block their dragons until you're ready to race. I know that's not what aggressive decks want to do with their 5-drop big dude, but you only need another turn or two of setup, and as you're doing it he can Monstrosity and snipe a dragon.
Also, for anyone who cares, I updated my report on my deck with matchup data.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
So I threw this together. Instead of a fast, on-the-ground aggro strategy, why not abuse all the access to great ramp Green has right now? Ramp into some seriously threatening creatures and fantastic planeswalkers.
It played pretty well during playtesting against a few different kinds of decks. I'm not sold on Frontier Siege just yet, and as good as Fleecemane Lion is, I could probably stand to cut it for something that gets me dropping dragons more quickly.
Considering:
Banishing Light - Removal?
Gods Willing - Evasion.
Become Immense - Combat trick.
Fruit of the First Tree - Play a dragon, enchant it with this, when it dies it refills my hand and gains me some life.
Gift of Immortality - Unkillable dragons?
Secure the Wastes - Surprise blockers or EOT token generator.
It seems to do alright as it is, but I was looking for some input on the cards I am considering.
What do you guys think I could do without? What cards did I miss for this deck that would make it even better/more reliable? Really any kind of commentary or assistance would be much appreciated.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Fleecemane Lion
2 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
2 Sunscorch Regent
2 Dragonlord Dromoka
2 Dromoka, the Eternal
Planeswalkers
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
4 Dromoka's Command
4 Valorous Stance
2 Frontier Siege
Lands
4 Windswept Heath
4 Temple of Plenty
4 Blossoming Sands
6 Forest
6 Plains
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Arbor Colossus
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Hornet Nest
2 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Plummet
Sorry I missed this earlier, I stopped checking the thread after I switched back to Abzan lol. Happy to help if I can!
Regarding Ajani, Mentor of Heroes, he was a flex spot in my deck. I boarded him out a lot. I would agree that he's a questionable inclusion - although I really liked casting him and using all his abilities, on paper the power level just isn't there compared to other stuff you could be doing. That said, Ajani is often better in any given matchup than a sideboard card I would use, so he's a good choice for the maindeck even if he gets boarded out a lot. For example, I had 2 Hornet Nests and 2 Mistcutter Hydras in the final version of the sideboard I used. Hydra was much better than Ajani against control, and Nest was much better than Ajani against aggro, but Ajani wasn't a dead card in either matchup (where Hornet Nest does nothing against control and Mistcutter Hydra is usually very inefficient and low-impact).
If Ajani is getting countered or downfalled, though, that's probably a good thing for us. We have a bunch of threats to jam in against control and if they expend valuable resources killing Ajani - a must-answer card that isn't actually a direct threat to kill us - then we've won that battle. Typically control decks these days handle Ajani by resolving Silumgar, the Drifting Death or Dragonlord Ojutai and beating his face in, which is less desirable but still buys time.
Ajani isn't the best card to have against aggro for sure, but keeping blockers back isn't a problem; in fact that's where Ajani is best off, because you beat aggro decks almost the instant you stabilize against them, and until you do that you're keeping creatures back to block anyway. Ajani helps you stabilize by making 1-2 blockers too costly to swing past and too big to burn out. If your opponent spends additional turns after that swinging at Ajani instead of you, then you've spent one turn tapping out for Ajani to net 2+ turns of them swinging at Ajani to kill him, which is all you should need to stabilize by the time you can cast him.
So basically, regarding Ajani:
(1) He's never the best card in a given matchup and I frequently board him out; BUT
(2) He's never the worst card in a given matchup, so you're probably better off with him game 1 than anything you'd put in from the sideboard;
(3) He's basically there to shorten the window aggro decks have to clock you and to stretch further the limited resources control has to answer all your threats.
I can see and support a 60 without him, and if you're not maindecking him you probably shouldn't be using him at all. Your intuition is probably right that you could be doing something better with him in any given game, the question is just finding something consistently better enough to justify including it over Ajani.
As for lands, 24 is the low-end I would do. I've never had mana issues with the deck but would support a list with 25 lands, especially ones with Elspeth, Sun's Champion (who I think is just a bit too costly for 24 lands). I dunno if I'd go to 26+, some of the pros have gone that direction with Abzan Aggro (a deck which I think is fundamentally similar to this one) and I just don't like it. Don't really see the point because you hit your land drops almost all the time at 25 and you have enough density with your colors at 25. 26 would probably be for heavier top-end value decks, but at that point I wouldn't really want to be in strict GW colors; the other 3 colors give you inexpensive and good interaction (removal, burn, or counters as need be), along with stronger top-end cards (Siege Rhino, Stormbreath Dragon, Dragonlord Ojutai).
Against control it's just about playing more threats than they can answer. Stuff like Gods Willing and Valorous Stance is cool, especially Valorous Stance since you get an answer for non-hexproof Dragons and a counterspell all in one card. I wouldn't go too high on the non-threat spells though, postboard I have 4 (the Stances). I think Den Protector is probably a must-have here for the block clause alone; getting her to 4 power is trivial in a deck with Commands and Ajanis with her Megamorph, and then she can swing through Silumgar. I would probably go with the Deathmist Raptor package as well for this matchup. I'm not sure how I'd edit the deck to get them in exactly, but I know I would be doing this. You don't even need to switch to a morph look necessarily, they slot in well enough on their own.
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
4x Avatar of the Resolute
4x Boon Satyr
4x Deathmist Raptor
3x Den Protector
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Fleecemane Lion
3x Surrak, the Hunt Caller
2x Warden of the First Tree
8x Forest
2x Mana Confluence
2x Plains
4x Temple of Plenty
4x Windswept Heath
2x Wooded Foothills
Instant (10)
4x Collected Company
4x Dromoka's Command
2x Valorous Stance
1x Archetype of Courage
1x Become Immense
1x Den Protector
2x Glare of Heresy
1x Gods Willing
3x Nylea's Disciple
2x Plummet
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Valorous Stance
1x Windstorm
I ended up going 5-1-1 in rounds (intentional draw into Top 8), but lost my Top 8 match to end up at 7th place.
Wins: Mono-B humans, 2x Atarka Red, Chromantiflayer, UW Control
Loss: G/W Collected Company (mirror)
That's right. I never went up against Esper Dragons.
The Atarka Red matches were the ones that gave me the most fits. Against one opponent I went down to 4 and started to sweat. Then he Wild Slashed me to take me to 2 which I almost Dromoka's Commanded, but opted not to because it wasn't lethal. Good thing, too, because he tried to Stoke the Flames me a turn later which got Commanded, instead. I then proceeded to take myself down to 1 off Mana Confluence in order to close out the game.
The second Atarka Red match went similar, but I was able to find Nylea's Disciple at very opportune times to jump back out of burn range.
I could have won the mirror match if I had just been a little more aggressive. The deciding turn was me swinging with only 1 creature instead of both so I would have a blocker in case he cast Collected Company at my EOT, but he didn't. On my next attack, he casts Company which hits Hornet Nest and he blocks my Boon Satyr to get 4 hornets that kill me on the crack back.
In Top 8 I lost to R/G Dragons. The match was rough, but I was able to hold out for 3 games, one of which I punted by attacking Surrak and Lion into a Thunderbreak Regent when I should have just swung Surrak.
Overall, I really like the deck. Swapping out Reverent Hunters for Deathmist Raptors made a huge difference and added a whole new dimension to the deck. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to do a lot of Den Protector + Raptor shenanigans throughout the day, but Protector by itself was great.
Going forward, my deck will be this:
4x Avatar of the Resolute
4x Boon Satyr
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x Deathmist Raptor
4x Den Protector
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Fleecemane Lion
2x Warden of the First Tree
2x Blossoming Sands
7x Forest
3x Mana Confluence
2x Plains
4x Temple of Plenty
4x Windswept Heath
Instant (10)
4x Collected Company
4x Dromoka's Command
2x Valorous Stance
1x Archetype of Courage
2x Glare of Heresy
3x Hornet Nest
2x Nylea's Disciple
2x Plummet
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Valorous Stance
2x Whisperwood Elemental
Surrak, the Hunt Caller was great, but seeing him in a CC stack was disheartening and it happened fairly often. Swapping him out for Brimaz, King of Oreskos means that every creature in the main deck can be grabbed off a CC. I'll miss my Windstorm tech in the side, but Hornet Nest will be better in the matches where Windstorm would normally come in and it will help a lot with the R/x aggro matches.
3x Avatar of the Resolute
3x Boon Satyr
3x Courser of Kruphix
4x Deathmist Raptor
4x Den Protector
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Fleecemane Lion
2x Surrak, the Hunt Caller
Enchantment (2)
2x Mastery of the Unseen
2x Evolving Wilds
6x Forest
2x Mana Confluence
2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Plains
4x Temple of Plenty
4x Windswept Heath
Instant (9)
3x Collected Company
3x Dromoka's Command
3x Valorous Stance
2x Arbor Colossus
1x Dromoka's Command
2x Glare of Heresy
2x Mastery of the Unseen
2x Nylea's Disciple
3x Plummet
2x Reclamation Sage
1x Valorous Stance
Ran this last FNM 5/1/15, the deck performed exceptionally well netting me into the finals. We both decided to draw and split the 1st/2nd place prize as it was getting late.
Highlights below:
Round 1 - Creatureless Mardu. Win 2-1. I was just too fast for the most part. Mana screw in the game I lost in this match.
Round 2 - U/W/G Heroic. Draw 1-1-1. I built the wall until I could run him out of protection spells and was able to make his main guy fight the Deathmist Raptor via a Dromoka's Command, or just killed it with a Valorous Stance. Because of the Game 1 Stalemate, we ran to time near the start of game 3.
Round 3 - B/W/U/R - Dragon homebrew. Win 2-0. Way too slow.
Round 4 - R/W/G - Dragons. Loss 0-2. Good player, I couldn't get ahead and got dragon pounded.
Top 8 - U/W/G Heroic Player from Round 2. Win 2-0. Perfect draws, just ran over him.
Top 4 - B/U/W Dragon Control. Win 2-0. Deck goes under control. Had to pull in the additional two Mastery of the Unseen to stabilize on life.
Top 2 - Finals - R/W/G - Dragons. Same player from Round 4. We know each other and drew it to split the store credit.
Top cards:
Dromoka's Command - This card does it all! Zaps enchantments, Stops large burn, stops Anger of the Gods, +1 counters and fighting large dragons with a Deathmist Raptor.
Top Combo:
Deathmist Raptor & Den Protector - Den Protector can loop by getting back another Den Protector. When it flips up cheaply, it pulls back any Raptors in the yard, in addition to being able to fetch up what you need at the time you need it!
Let me know if you have any questions around my deck or play.
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Temple of Plenty
3 Blossoming Sands
6 Forest
3 Plains
27 Creatures
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Warden of the First Tree
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Reverent Hunter
4 Boon Satyr
3 Den Protector
2 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
2 Aspect of Hydra
3 Dromoka's Command
2 Valorous Stance
4 Collected Company
15 Sideboard
4 Arashian Cleric
1 Become Immense
1 Windstorm
2 Valorous Stance
1 God's Willing
2 Hidden Dragonslayer
2 Archetype of Courage
2 Plummet
I've made it to top 4 and split the finals of consecutive fnms the past two weeks playing this deck. I don't normally play standard and haven't played the format since the KTK pro tour.
Would love to see some sideboarding guides from you guys and other opinions on other card options!
4x Avatar of the Resolute
3x Daghatar the Adamant
2x Elvish Mystic
4x Fleecemane Lion
3x High Sentinels of Arashin
4x Salt Road Quartermasters
3x Sunscorch Regent
2x Whisperer of the Wilds
2x Divine Verdict
4x Feat of Resistance
3x Inspiring Call
Enchantment (2)
2x Hardened Scales
Land (24)
4x Evolving Wilds
10x Forest
10x Plains
3x Ajani's Presence
3x Gods Willing
1x Pillar of Light
2x Ranger's Guile
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Revoke Existence
2x Satyr Grovedancer
1x Snake of the Golden Grove
4 Deathmist Raptor
4 Den Protector
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Fleecemane Lion
2 Hidden Dragonslayer
2 Warden of the First Tree
3 Boon Satyr
2 Courser of Kruphix
3 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
Lands (24)
8 Forest
6 Plains
1 Blossoming Sands
1 Mana Confluence
4 Temple of Plenty
4 Windswept Heath
Spells (6)
3 Dromoka's Command
3 Valorous Stance
4 Hangarback Walker
2 Hushwing Gryff
2 Evolutionary Leap
3 Unravel the Aether
1 Valorous Stance
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Tragic Arrogance
So I don't know if people just don't care or are living in a different world, but this was one of the most played decks at GP San Diego.
I don't think it's particularly good but Kibler did well with it in standard at the PT and a lot of pros jumped on the hype train. It's good vs. a wide field although doesn't maul anyone in particular.
I'm thinking about sleeving it up for an FNM real quick but was curious if anyone else had been given this a spin.
Thanks for bumping the thread, Lugger! I looked through the first few pages the other day, but didn't see anything matching the Kibler list, and I was just as confused as you.
I was playing a fairly rogue (and surprisingly competitive) GW Hardened Scales list, but for this week I think I'll drink the kool-aid and play something close to Kibler. Here's what I was looking at:
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Warden of the First Tree
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Den Protector
2 Hidden Dragonslayer
4 Deathmist Raptor
2 Courser of Kruphix
2 Boon Satyr
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Dromoka's Command
3 Valorous Stance
Planeswalkers (3)
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Land (24)
4 Temple of Plenty
2 Blossoming Sands
4 Windswept Heath
1 Mana Confluence
8 Forest
5 Plains
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Valorous Stance
2 Revoke Existence
1 Tragic Arrogance
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Evolutionary Leap
4 Hangarback Walker
Changes to the maindeck are -1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer, -1 Boon Satyr, +1 Dromoka's Command, and +1 Lelspeth, Meme's Champion. 3 Nissa seems overkill for a deck that's running 4 Den Protector to recur and 2 Ajani to find them. For the same reasoning, a maindeck fun-of Elspeth seems pretty great for the mirror and for Abzan. 4 Dromoka's Command in the 75, if not 60, should be the rule, not the exception, for any GWx deck that's even remotely aggressive right now. It's never been as busted as it is right now, and that's saying something. The Boon Satyr comes out because it's mostly going to be bestowed, and is a comparable CMC to Elspeth.
The sideboard has an extra Elspeth, because she's nuts against so many decks, and games tend to slow down a bit post-board. As she's also quite a beating against this deck, and due to the prevalence of this particular archetype (or at least color pairing) right now, I wanted a second Glare of Heresy as well. I'm also quite partial to Revoke Existence over Unravel the Aether since it exiles, not giving an opponent like UR Mill the chance to find their important card again.
I know it doesn't look impressive on paper, but from goldfishing the deck (and the obvious results it has had), it seems quite good. I look forward to hearing/talking about it some more in the future.
Easily solvable by inserting some number of Heir of the Wilds (not turning on ferocious often but that's ok), more Hidden Dragonslayers, maindeck Ainok Survivalist, or even Misthoof Kirin.
Also possibly playble:
-- Temur Charger
-- Watcher of the Roost
Obviously, PWs are very good in the mirror and abzan MU. Nissa, Worldwaker seems acceptable.
A few weeks ago, Brian Kibler brought a new deck to the professional circuit and went 9-1 with it. Other pro's picked up on it and decided that it was a good deck and it's been placing in the top level ever since. G/W Megamorph is an aggressive midrange deck that eats mono-red aggro for breakfast, munches on Thopters for lunch, and has game against Tutelage and a whole range of other decks in the meta game.
So it's about time a thread appears in MTG Salvation to discuss it. Below is the 4th place deck from GP London:
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Creatures
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Deathmist Raptor
4 Den Protector
4 Fleecemane Lion
2 Boon Satyr
2 Hidden Dragonslayer
2 Courser of Kruphix
2 Hangarback Walker
3 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 Dromoka's Command
3 Valorous Stance
Land
8 Forest
6 Plains
4 Temple of Plenty
4 Windswept Heath
1 Mana Confluence
1 Blossoming Sands
2 Hangarback Walker
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Dromoka's Command
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Evolutionary Leap
2 Unravel the Aether
1 Back to Nature
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Tragic Arrogance
2 Plummet
Here is Owen Turtenwald demonstrating how to play against mono-red.
Shahar Shenhar taking on Abzan midrange
As it stands, I think the deck is advantaged against more aggressive decks and disadvantaged against devotion and control decks.
There are ways to evolve the deck. It may be that simply adding black for Abzan is more effective, but there are trade offs. Another route is to focus on +1 counters, perhaps with Hardened Scales, and then you focus on Managorger Hydra and Hangarback Walker. You could also go into Whisperwood and Mastery of the Unseen for a more devotion-oriented take.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Like if only there was a Siege Rhino in the mix things would be so much better. But if we don't add black, what's the plan? What's the best way to develop this deck to fight things like Abzan Control?
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
When I played Selesnya, even before Languish, I just went bigger. Dromoka, the Eternal and Dragonlord Dromoka help get there. I also played Surrak, the Hunt Caller, which survives with Dromoka's Command. I never felt like adding a third color was needed either, because the mana is pretty much perfect. I got away with just 4 tapped lands, which absolutely punished Abzan if they stumbled just a little on mana. But we also have built-in recursion with Deathmist Raptor and Den Protector, assuming Raptor hasn't been exiled by Charm or Anafenza.
Granted, that's a totally different build than what Kibler was doing though.
The deck is inherently weak to Abzan Control. Perhaps it's even worse against Abzan Aggro.
Surrak, the Hunt Caller really only helps in respect to pushing damage quickly through. Less so when the ground is cluttered or when everyone and their mom has 3-4x Hangarback Walkers gumming up the ground.
Elspeth is really the best plan of attack. Otherwise you're just doing weak things. Dragonlord Dromoka is also a reasonable card as is Wingmate Roc. Roc is the worst of the bunch against Languish and Dragons but good in the attrition MUs.