Whats the point of running fetch lands when your running a mono black deck? I mean i could understand if they were Scry 1... but i dont get it here.
Who's Running Fetch Lands?
And in some of my variations; I was running a few Fetch Lands in the Mono Black Versions for Thinning Purposes.
But I found if I was running 25 lands; I wanted NO Fetches; if I could up it to 26; then I did want a few Fetches for Thinning.
But someone also broke down Statistical Numbers on it; and the Harm that you're doing to a Mono Black Manabase at 25 lands by Thinning your Deck outweighs the benefits.
So I haven't added Fetches to the Mono Black ina while.
Even in the Red Splash; I still have NO Fetches; cuz again at 25 lands; I think Fetches are actually bad to be thinning even if they are Fixing the Red. But with all the dual lands that make B/R; you don't need the Fetches to get your Red for the Red Splash.
So again; who is running Fetches in Mono Black now?
I read all your posts and admire what are you trying to accomplish. So pls don't care much about haters. I was never able to build at least a deck deck, so I always use deck of someone others. That's why Google found me this webpage and your thread. And that's why even don't play the deck because of my heavy red meta, I still read through all posts and still trying to support you and encourage you to develop the deck.
Even though my black cards are now in my UBw Esper Dragons deck, I still would like to return to the Mono B deck from time to time.
Please keep up the good work and feel my support. Thank you!
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Active player in years 1999-2004.
Mono U Draw & Go fan
Decks:
Modern - Mono U Tron, UR Delver
Legacy - UR Delver
Pauper - BGRUW Tron, Mono U Delver, Mono B Control
Ahh gotcha; yea; the date of that deck was months ago; before I took the advice of some posters who shared their Statistical numbers of Thinning strategies.
But it's not totally unheard of to play Fetches in a Mono Color deck; you're basically removing 2 Lands from your deck when you play one of the Fetches; which gives you better odds of better top decks; and allows you to Shuffle your deck.
With different cards too that allow you to DELVE; the Fetches help that as well.
But; as I mentioned I have since changed my stance on that; at 25 lands I think Fetching hurts you; thinning 2 lands out of your deck early ends up mana screwing you and giving you problems sometimes for the top end of the deck.
So I neither disagree or agree; but someone who shared their work made a great argument; so I adopted it.
I read all your posts and admire what are you trying to accomplish. So pls don't care much about haters. I was never able to build at least a deck deck, so I always use deck of someone others. That's why Google found me this webpage and your thread. And that's why even don't play the deck because of my heavy red meta, I still read through all posts and still trying to support you and encourage you to develop the deck.
Even though my black cards are now in my UBw Esper Dragons deck, I still would like to return to the Mono B deck from time to time.
Please keep up the good work and feel my support. Thank you!
Hey thanks; no I normally don't care about the Haters anymore to be honest; but I felt there was an opportunity to take something someone said; that was perceived to be a bit borderline trolly; and explain my thought process a bit more indepth.
So no worries...
I appreciate the feedback!!
And if your Meta is heavy RED; you might want to consider checking out the RED Splash list I just posted.
I'm actually encouraged that this will hold up a better game VS those decks.
There's LESS Cards in the main that do damage to ourselves; and now we have more cards that can kill their early creatures; while Kolaghan's Commands punish them for sandbagging....
So I am actually quite encouraged by the new direction... Wasn't it you that gave the idea?? Maybe perhaps not; either way I tried it and have greatly enjoyed it thus far.
I'll write up a report on how things went tomorrow after FNM... hopefully we did good.
And; WE did.
Happy to report the first test run of this variation felt like a Success.
I honestly didn't feel like any of my matchups overwhelmed me with anything that I couldn't handle; even with the 1 Round that I lost.
WIN 2-1 ROUND 1 VS UR Dragons (SIDE PLAN: -1 Kolaghan's Command, -1 Bile Blight, +2 Liliana Vess = Midrange Plan)
-Lots and Lots of Thunderbreak and Stormbreath; and Black just eats that alive... Got the Merciless Executioners going; Kolaghan's Commands and the Sieges; and my opponent just couldn't get ahead of the removal.
-Game 1 I was mana screwed and stuck for a few turns; and so it did end in a loss.
-But Game 2 and 3 the removal synergy was just too much.
LOSS 0-2 ROUND 2 VS Bant Heroic (SIDE PLAN: -4 Sign in Blood, -1 Ugin, -1 Sidisi, -2 Thoughtseize, +4 Pharika's Cure, +4 Drown in Sorrow = Aggro Plan)
-Heroic decks are supposed to fold up and die to us... I'm not really sure what happened; the round was a bit of a blur; I think for starters I didn't keep good hands.
-I didn't see hardly any of my Executioners; and IDK; maybe the Bant version just runs alot more creatures or have better ways of getting through the deck to get gas?
-Dude just seemed to have nothing but gas... I'm calling FLUKE on this.
WIN 2-1 ROUND 3 VS Abzan Midrange (SIDE PLAN: -2 Ultimate Price, +2 Liliana Vess = Midrange Plan)
-It was a grindy type of match...
-GM1 he was mana screwed and I had Pitiless Hordes x2 going and he scooped fairly quick.
-GM2 He had a few Thoughtseize and Duress; smart player; he knew I was playing Mono Black Control; generally I always play Control; and GM1 he only saw Black cards... so he brought in his Control Package and it did a pretty good job eating me up.
-GM3 was definitely the Grindy one; we went back and fourth back and fourth; but then I stuck a late Palace Siege onto KHANS; Liliana was a BEAST as well here; she managed the game; and I got some KEY tutors off her. Played really well and got the win with Pitiless Hordes, Liliana, and x2 Sieges x1 on KHANS and x1 on Dragons. Anything he cast died; so it was over.
-Interesting thing happened in this match; ELSPETH happened... When it hit; my stomach dropped; I feared the Elspeth... but then something interesting happened. I cast Bile Blight; wipe the Tokens; and DASH Pitiless Horde; suddenly... NO ELSPETH!! I did this 2 times in Game 3 and also 1 time in Game 2... It was surprisingly effective. I knew there was a reason I loved Pitiless Horde.
WIN 2-0 ROUND 4 VS UW Heroic (SIDEBOARD PLAN: -4 Sign in Blood, +4 Drown in Sorrow)
-Just like I expected; we annihilated this...
-UW runs approx 14 to 18 creatures; depending upon the build; and so Merciless Executioners around Turn 3 and beyond are great; and the Early removal on Turn 2 is great. A Well Timed Thoughtseize; and some Kolaghan's Commands to pick away at their hand; and it's a cake walk. Also; be sure to nab Treasure Cruise if you have the removal to kill their creatures and just don't want them to RESTOCK.
-Still don't know how Bant Heroic beat me............
ALLSTARS:
First Up --- PITILESS HORDE He was beast!!!! The way he took down Elspeth so efficiently and easily already makes me fully on the Horde bandwaggon even though I already was. But then there was a situation where I Thoughtseized my OP; knew he didn't have much of anything other than the Rhino that was already in Play. I play my Pitiless Horde for 3 and stone wall him from attack for a few turns while I draw; Sign in Blood; and get nothing but gas going. Then Palace Sieges to mitigate the Damage the Horde is doing me; and then suddenly things don't look so bleak. Even if he attacks with Rhino; I'm happy to lose my Horde in that exchange to stop the damage. And if I attack; and he wants to take that exchange; that's fine too cuz I get my Horde back. Love this option!!!
Second Up --- Empty the Pits Almost love this card so much that I want 2 now... but it's not going to happen. The few times I saw this card; every single time it was GREAT!!!! A Empty the Pits making 3 Zombies EOT when your opponent just tapped out for say an Elspeth or something big and then untap; cast Executioner to kill whatever it was creature wise they played; then DASH a Horde for 11??? I mean the plays off a EOT Empty the Pits were just great every time it came up. I won a few games just with this card. 1 Game was a close one; and Empty the Pits finished the game!! Another Nice Option!
Third Up --- Palace Siege I mean do I even need to at this point? This is one of the key Focal points of the deck... However; because of Kolaghan's Command; we now don't have to rely on it so heavily. And because of the power of some of the other creatures like Pitiless Horde and Empty the Pits; we don't have to rely on it to win. But it's just amazing!!! Really sets things up for us to go long game and win grindy matches.
Kolaghan's Command wasn't an All Star; but everytime I played it I loved it, it was def worth splashing Red for!!
FUTURE OUTLOOK:
I really like this deck going forward for a good while!!!
1.) Heavy Burn Decks: First of all; there aren't as many cards in the 60 now that hurt us... Kolaghan's Command really smoothed things out; although it's not a Read the Bones; the synergy it provides makes it feel like it's generating great advantages and synergy. SO going forward; I feel like we have a better game plan VS MORE decks now; and we're not just going to get eaten alive by Burn Heavy decks.
2.) Midrange Decks: AKA Dragon Decks, Merciless Executioners in this deck give us strong games VS Thunderbreak Dragon decks. And honestly; my shop is littered heavily with Dragon Decks right now. Mardu Dragons; UR Dragons; Jund Dragons; GR Monsters/Dragons... Dragons Dragons Dragons. And Black just eats that stuff for breakfest; and with the Synergy of Merciless Executioners and being able to buy them back and keep replaying them; those Midrange Decks shouldn't stand much of a chance.
3.) Control Decks; I noticed a few Control Decks tonight; Esper and UB. These matchups are generally 50/50. They're not great for us; but they're not great in their favor either. Discard always plays out like that... They hate playing us! The games are just unpredictable... I really like the 4 Duress and 2 Liliana Plan to go along with the MB Thoughtseize and Kolaghan's Commands. I don't know if it'll work; but I like the plan... Just remember; you don't always have to play Turn 1 Duress or Turn 1 Thoughtseize. Sometimes it's ok to hold those back a little bit; maybe play them a turn before they bout to play something you know can hurt you... Or play them before you play a bomb to push it through... But I like where we are at with them...
4.) Aggro Decks; again; Kolaghan's Command just feels like it gives us a tool here for them to go along with the Blights and Ultimate Prices and Downfalls. Kolaghan's Command really plays nice with the rest of that removal and doesn't stress it out; prior to Kolaghan's Command; we were playing Read the Bones basically... Read the Bones helps the Opponent..... So yea; I feel like we are in a much better place now mainboard!
So I am really really high on this list right now... I like it alot of the field in general right now!
POSSIBLE CHANGES:
*Mainboard*
-NONE! I really like where the Mainboard is at; VS Everybody...
*Sideboard*
-I think we are pretty solid VS Aggro; so I think we can trim down on the Pharika's Cure; maybe even cut them all together?
-I also think we can trim down the number of Drowns; 3 I think will be fine.
+I think we need a bit more SAC effects. I'm debating on if I want to run Self-Inflicted Wound > Foul-Tongue Invocation. I really like Self Inflicted Wound; it does 2 Damage which plays really well with the rest of the deck. It comes down a Turn earlier to Merciless Executioner. So Turn 2 kill a Caryatid, Turn 3 kill something Important. I do feel like the Heroic Matchup pots alot of Stress on the Merciless Executioners; meaning we really want them.... If we don't see them; then things start getting out of hand once they get out of the early game; or are smart enough to sandbag creatures and start dropping them in 2s. If that's the case; I still think Either of those Edict spells works... Although we don't play Dragons; Foul-Tongue is still a solid Edict Removal Spell; and works VS any of the other Dragons decks; could bring a few in as extra support.
+Brain Maggot??? Because of the Kolaghan's Commands; and because we already used Palace Sieges... I'm really considering a card like Brain Maggot in the sideboard VS some decks; specifically CONTROL. You Brain Maggot; take their best card; now they have to burn removal on the Maggot; but then we play Kolaghan's Command and get the Maggot back and take their best card again. Or once we get the Palace Sieges on line; then it just gets really annoying. I wonder.....? I think I'm going to play with this idea...
POTENTIAL PITFALLS/WORRIES:
1.) I have to say; Kolaghan's Command; although I sing it's praises cuz it benefits us; I actually feel a bit scared by it against us... All of our Removal is Black; and Kolaghan's Command kind of turns off our Removal because it brings back those creatures anyways... BUT THEN our Removal is also recyclable to a certain degree too. So perhaps we equalize that and it's not as bad as it seems...
2.) Outpost Siege; I really fear this card; and perhaps it should be #1 over the KC. We don't really have a way of dealing with this till Turn 8; unless we nab it with a early Thoughtseize; but even that's not a plan at all. I'm starting to think perhaps I want the 2nd Ugin sitting around in the 75. The funny thing is; I play a Mardu Dragons deck that runs both Kolaghan's Command and Outpost Siege; and in the side there's Palace Siege... Good gosh; if that catches on, Mono Black/r might find it's match. Alot of ugly things that we couldn't deal with. Someone I know plays Mardu with alot of my style in it; Mardu Charms; Sieges; Commands; and this is why it's on my radar; I think that deck could give us problems. They even run the Utter Ends to kill our Sieges.
And sure; we have the Discard stuff that can nab these things; but I guess the thing that is scary about these 2 specifically; is they help your opponent recycle things that we may have already taken care of. That may really run our resources short.... Perhaps; we just treat that match like a CONTROL match; side out some of the removal; bank solely on setting up the Palace Siege/Commands and Executioners.
Other than that... I even like where the Sideboard is at right now.
So I've decided to give this deck a run (splash Red) and this is honestly the first version of control I've actually enjoyed playing! Took it to my locals which were tonight and did really well. Below is a quick bit on info about matchups.
G2 I cruxed him when he was flooding and then he end phased Secure the Wastes and my Bile Blight was a turn after he killed me.
G3 He had no board presence on T5, so dropped a Siege... (got double Duressed this game)
R2 vs Atarka Red
G1 I drew no removal and he dropped a couple of Outbursts...
Sided: +2 Cure +3 Drown +1 Plague -4 Sign -2 Seize
G2 Drowned for a +3 and then dropped Siege
G3 Plague + 2 Sieges beats this deck kinda hard (he was also stuck on 2 mana)
R3 vs Jeskai Dragons
G1 I mulled to 5 and kept an ok hand (my 6 hand was 3 Fountains + BB spells...) he ended up flooding out while I was looping Executioners with Commands and then I triple Sieged him
Sided: +2 Liliana -1 Command -1 Bile Blight (Blight was a mistake, not sure what else to take out)
G2 Lets just say a massacre happened. He couldn't stick a creature and I ended up Sieging him and then did Pits for 7.
R4 vs Ojutai Bant
G1 I kept a decent hand, but he got Protectors + Raptors out...
Sided: +2 Wound +1 Drown -1 Bile -2 Price (Mistakes were made...shouldn't've put in the Drown and also should've gone -2 Seize +2 Lili)
G2 I just couldn't draw then removal to deal with his threats. I also jumped the gun with a Downfall (onto a Fleecemane) then he dropped Courser and I drew a Blight... This game was easily winnable, I just played it badly. Also, I hate Dromoka's Command...
Ended up 3-1 and coming second, also think I've basically found my fav deck this format
R4 vs Ojutai Bant
G1 I kept a decent hand, but he got Protectors + Raptors out...
Sided: +2 Wound +1 Drown -1 Bile -2 Price (Mistakes were made...shouldn't've put in the Drown and also should've gone -2 Seize +2 Lili)
G2 I just couldn't draw then removal to deal with his threats. I also jumped the gun with a Downfall (onto a Fleecemane) then he dropped Courser and I drew a Blight... This game was easily winnable, I just played it badly. Also, I hate Dromoka's Command...
Ended up 3-1 and coming second, also think I've basically found my fav deck this format
Nice!!! Happy to see anytime others experience success with the lists; makes me feel like I'm not as crazy. HAHA
One thing I noted... really the only thing I noted in your Round by Round breakdown; I never side out Sieges.
Sieges play such an important role in the path to victory no matter the matchup that I don't ever side those out.
Do you still feel that was the right sideboard plan? Just curious...
VS Aggro; the 2 Life Drain is the Key Component.
VS Midrange; the KHANS Get a Creature Back IMO is the Key Component; you start bringing back Executioners and that just really wrecks them.
VS Conrol; the 2 Life Drain AND/OR the Creature Back is actually both very good vs them.
Other than that 1 little thing I noted; fantastic job...
As a side note; VS those dudes that Come Back and become PESKY; I was thinking perhaps Silence the Believers is the answer???
I love this card; but it has a Limited Situation that it's great for; so it's a Sideboard Tech for this deck.
VS decks that have Kolaghan's Commands; or Whips or ways to bring creatures back from their GY; I love the x1 Hedonist's Trove.
In those matchups; your Opponent isn't really concerned about you killing their creatures.
But what they FAIL to realize is that we too have a ton of Synergy and can generally keep killing things every turn and never really run out of Answers once the Palace Siege and Executioners are online.
However; it still does turn into a Grindy situation if their decks are well designed; WELCOME Hedonist's Trove.
The Controlly version of this deck wants to go long game... so I imagine a game where we're just trading back and fourth; he's running out of Threats; and we're keeping up with Answers.
Play the Trove; we not only remove their GY; but we get all of theiR Threats; and lands.
VS Decks like Mardu; alot of those decks we can cast their Threats even if we don't get their lands to use... Their Threats are mostly Red; we have Red.
VS Whip decks; sure alot of their threats are Green; but that's still ok even if we can't cast their threats; because it simply just shuts off their Strategy; PERIOD.
R4 vs Ojutai Bant
G1 I kept a decent hand, but he got Protectors + Raptors out...
Sided: +2 Wound +1 Drown -1 Bile -2 Price (Mistakes were made...shouldn't've put in the Drown and also should've gone -2 Seize +2 Lili)
G2 I just couldn't draw then removal to deal with his threats. I also jumped the gun with a Downfall (onto a Fleecemane) then he dropped Courser and I drew a Blight... This game was easily winnable, I just played it badly. Also, I hate Dromoka's Command...
Ended up 3-1 and coming second, also think I've basically found my fav deck this format
Nice!!! Happy to see anytime others experience success with the lists; makes me feel like I'm not as crazy. HAHA
One thing I noted... really the only thing I noted in your Round by Round breakdown; I never side out Sieges.
Thoughtseize, not Siege. Sorry, only wrote Seize without thinking of how easy it would be to confuse with Siege. May bad :D.
The main thing I need to work on is my sequencing. I think I played a couple of things at the wrong time instead of bluffing removal (like Erebos vs the Bant list).
What about Tarmods Crypt instead of Trove? While it doesn't add devo for Erebos, it comes down whenever and doesn't have to be tapped out for.
I like the idea of Silence, have to find room for it.
I recommend people try out Risen Executioner if you haven't (vs Control).
Thoughtseize, not Siege. Sorry, only wrote Seize without thinking of how easy it would be to confuse with Siege. May bad :D.
The main thing I need to work on is my sequencing. I think I played a couple of things at the wrong time instead of bluffing removal (like Erebos vs the Bant list).
What about Tarmods Crypt instead of Trove? While it doesn't add devo for Erebos, it comes down whenever and doesn't have to be tapped out for.
I like the idea of Silence, have to find room for it.
I recommend people try out Risen Executioner if you haven't (vs Control).
But it's on my radar and I do plan to get me some as well; I'm not sure how I like it or how it will play in this style of deck; but nevertheless; I like this card alot.
I'd recommend agent of erebos over T crypt or trove. Exiles graveyard every time he comes in or when you play your sieges
As far as Tormod's Crypt > Trove; yea that's probably honestly better way to go; but I fully admit sometimes I don't play the "Perfect" or "Great" card; instead I like having a kind of Wild Card in my Sideboard; something that no one expects; something that if it resolves; it's Blow Out.
That's how I feel about the Trove; if it resolves; it has the effect of removing their GY yes; which that's what Tormod's Crypt does; but as an extra added bonus; you get to use their creature threats against them.
VS Kolaghan's Commands Decks; or Whip Decks; we will have some ways to use their threats against them; which IMO creates blow outs and makes Trove a Win Condition where Tormod's Crypt is not.
It's just one of those crazy cards that everyone likes but no one runs or expects... Unless of course you're ME.
I'd recommend agent of erebos over T crypt or trove. Exiles graveyard every time he comes in or when you play your sieges
Not to mention Erebos. I'm actually quite tempted to try it as a one of mained in my list. Just due to the amount of Den Protector or decks that use delve in my area atm.
But it's on my radar and I do plan to get me some as well; I'm not sure how I like it or how it will play in this style of deck; but nevertheless; I like this card alot.
Well we usually don't have that many creatures in the bin, and it's a hard to deal with threat, outside of Vault, Dissipate and Utter end they can't deal with it.
As far as Tormod's Crypt > Trove; yea that's probably honestly better way to go; but I fully admit sometimes I don't play the "Perfect" or "Great" card; instead I like having a kind of Wild Card in my Sideboard; something that no one expects; something that if it resolves; it's Blow Out.
That's how I feel about the Trove; if it resolves; it has the effect of removing their GY yes; which that's what Tormod's Crypt does; but as an extra added bonus; you get to use their creature threats against them.
VS Kolaghan's Commands Decks; or Whip Decks; we will have some ways to use their threats against them; which IMO creates blow outs and makes Trove a Win Condition where Tormod's Crypt is not.
It's just one of those crazy cards that everyone likes but no one runs or expects... Unless of course you're ME.
I get what you're saying. while those cards are good fun, I'm more inclined to make lists the best they can be over fun :D. That's just how I play haha. I might even give it a shot.
I played against an Esper control list (running 2-3 Elspeth, 2-3 Ashiok and 3 Narset MB). To be perfectly honest, I stuggled. We only played G1s and I was beaten easily each time. I was probably playing the matchup wrong though.
1.) Agent of Erebos: There was actually a time a bunch of us did run it as a 1 or 2 of in the Sideboard; mostly to try and hose Dig decks. But we also ran Grind Clocks with it too.
Agent is definitely a Fine Option; although I really like what the Trove does; can't deny that Agent of Erebos synergizes with our GY Recursion Strategies much better.
I'll probably end up going this route myself; and I'd probably make room for x2.
2.) Risen Executioner: Yea I agree; we don't run many creatures; and even the few creatures we run; we're getting them back out of the GY. So even if we have say a Merciless Executioner or 2 in the GY; we return 1 or both with Sieges or Commands; and the Risen still ends up being a normal cost. So this too also synergizes; it might even be better than Pitiless Hordes???
3.) VS Esper: The key thing to get going is the Palace Sieges and Kolaghan's Commands; you don't ever care if they are killing your creatures... So your Thoughtseize and Duress and Commands (Discarding) are hitting Enchantment Hate; EXILE effects; and any ugly Threats that you can't deal with out of your hand. Resolve Palace Sieges; Kolaghan's Commands; and start undoing all their work... They're countering our Discard Spells; our Threats like Pitiless Hordes; and anything else we bring out of the side. Throw a Empty the Pits out there, if it gets countered fine.
I'm not sure of the setup you're running; but that's how I work that matchup; the key thing is to force them into bad plays with all the discard and tossing out your Non Siege Threats. Once the coast is clear; drop the Sieges; and rebuild the resources.
One thing that I want to try when I pick up the list again and run it is Brain Maggot.
Synergizes with all our Creature Recursion; and what I like about Brain Maggot is you look at their hand; take their best card; something that forces them to use Removal on the Maggot and dictate the terms of that play; then we end up bringing them back to keep doing it... I don't know; it seems like it could be worth a look.
It could be, but Executioner can't be given pseudo haste, which can actually be a downside. I'll give Executioners a shot over Horde next time I play the list. Horde can also act as a blocker in a pinch, which Executioner can't.
Yea, i figured that's how it goes. I think I was just playing the matchup wrong and trying to play around the counter spells instead of playing into them and just outlasting the 4-5 most people mainboard. As to my setup, the main is your main (well the one you posted on May 16th).
I really like the Maggot idea. I'll have to try and find room for it, just not sure where...
It could be, but Executioner can't be given pseudo haste, which can actually be a downside. I'll give Executioners a shot over Horde next time I play the list. Horde can also act as a blocker in a pinch, which Executioner can't.
Yea, i figured that's how it goes. I think I was just playing the matchup wrong and trying to play around the counter spells instead of playing into them and just outlasting the 4-5 most people mainboard. As to my setup, the main is your main (well the one you posted on May 16th).
I really like the Maggot idea. I'll have to try and find room for it, just not sure where...
I'll be giving Agent a Try.
The more I think of it; I think I'm going to stick with the Pitiless Hordes; but please tell me how you liked the Risen Executioners in place of the Hordes; I am curious.
Essentially I am splashing green for Garruk and enchantment removal. Fun interactions that I had in mind were Dictate of Erebos and Abhorrent Overlord, but they may certainly be out of place in the deck.
The reason I went with the B/g combo is mostly because I am already running a midrange deck in these colors and it seemed like a fun idea to try and create a control version.
Essentially I am splashing green for Garruk and enchantment removal. Fun interactions that I had in mind were Dictate of Erebos and Abhorrent Overlord, but they may certainly be out of place in the deck.
The reason I went with the B/g combo is mostly because I am already running a midrange deck in these colors and it seemed like a fun idea to try and create a control version.
I really like the deck!!
I've wanted to try Dictate of Erebos as well; just never really felt I needed to.
Some suggestions:
1.) I would pull the Overlord; although it seems IN-THEORY good; it's not. I ran it for a little while; and it was cool; but seriously not needed. Your high point is Garruk Apex Predator; which I also think is a bit questionable; but I'd rather that be the high point and not Overlord.
2.) Whip of Erebos; I don't think it's needed; with so few creatures; you really just want your Palace Sieges and that's all you really need. I would just run 4 Sieges and leave the Whip out.
3.) With Merciless Executioner + Palace Siege synergies; I really believe you could drop 1 of either Ultimate Price or Bile Blight; depending upon your meta. You have 4 Downfalls; 3 Executioner; 2 Crux; Dictates; Thoughtseize; all of which help to keep creatures down. So I think you could do a 3-2 split of Blight and Price or reverse. 3-2 split of Price and Blight.
4.) I feel like you're going to need additional Draw. 2 Read the Bones and the Erebos is fine; but you're going to want I feel Sign in Bloods.
5.) I feel like you could also -1 Dictate; it's not going to be great VS everybody; and because of the Sidisi; you could fetch it up if you need it. Personally I would rather just a 4th Merciless Executioner and cut Dictates out all together; but there's obviously a reason you're running it. I like the card; and almost ran it myself a few times; but never felt it was needed. I know you like the interactions of Dicate + Overlord; I think the Interaction of Dictate + Executioner and Sidisi is better. But I don't know that Dictate is really needed in the end; and perhaps maybe stick it in the side and bring it in when you're up against Midrange/Creature decks. Or if you know your meta is heavy Midrange/Creature; then keep it in the main; but drop it down to 1.
6.) I feel like you need to tune your 5 CMC slot... there's too many.
7.) I sincerely believe you could run Radiant Fountain to help mitigate some of the damage you're going to take. The Green is just simply a Splash; so I feel as though you could run the Fountains.
You really only have 1 Card that you need GREEN for; so I think 8 GREEN Sources is fine; and so I would replace the 4 Llanowar Wastes with 4 Radiant Fountain.
You could also consider the Sultai TRI Land that gives you Green and Black; yes it's a Tap Land; but 10 Tap Lands is not that big of a deal; trust me... I'd rather see that than a land that could CAUSE pain.
The way I see it with your list; Garruk is a means to an end and can gain you life to keep you in games.
My ORIGINAL version of Mono Black Control before I splashed RED, it was very very close to what you have here; but you opted to splash Green for Garruk while I used Ugin instead.
So be advised; you're going to hurt yourself a good bit... But it's almost required to get a consistent deck to run like this.
You'll want the 4 Sign in Blood; you'll want the 2 Read the Bones; the Erebos; the Thoughtseize.
So Radiant Fountain is almost a must have.
What I do like about what you're doing though is instead of UGIN; you've opted for Garruk. I actually think that's a fantastic idea!
Garruk goes along way to stabilize once we get to that range in the game.
My update may still be a bit too much on the 5 Drops; and I'd make a case to cut the Dictate of Erebos; I don't think it's needed with the Merciless Executioners; the Garruk; and all the other things going on. I'd almost rather a 3rd Crux instead even.
I also think with a Garruk Plan; you'll want 25 lands... maybe you could get away with 24; but I think I'd run it with 25.
Great food for thought. I have been play testing this a little bit and I completely agree with you on radiant fountain. I have been definitely taking too much self inflicted damage. I also agree that Overlord is unnecessary. Seemed fun on paper... in actual use it has been questionable at best. I really like the synergy that Dictate has with Executioner, but it would also likely be sided out. I just tweaked my midrange deck to be more controlling which is similar to this, but more creature heavy with the Den Protector + Deathmist Raptor engine in addition to Grim Haruspex.
I'll tweak it to match your first suggestion (with dictate) and see how it does. I see your points against dictate though and it certainly is a card that is on the chopping block. Also I wanted to see how people felt about murderous cut? This deck has a lot less graveyard recursion as my other one so it seems a bit more viable...
Also. is merciless executioner literally just a mono black crackling doom at this point? I mean he has to sacrifice himself with a bunch of these lists
Depends on the build. In my G/B midrange build it depends on what point I am at in the game, but I will often sacrifice a mana dork in favor of keeping executioner out on the battlefield. I'm new to running palace siege, but khans mode does make executioner a much better card. I love the synergy between siege/executioner/grim haruspex, but I'm not positive that is a viable solution for a control deck.
Who's Running Fetch Lands?
And in some of my variations; I was running a few Fetch Lands in the Mono Black Versions for Thinning Purposes.
But I found if I was running 25 lands; I wanted NO Fetches; if I could up it to 26; then I did want a few Fetches for Thinning.
But someone also broke down Statistical Numbers on it; and the Harm that you're doing to a Mono Black Manabase at 25 lands by Thinning your Deck outweighs the benefits.
So I haven't added Fetches to the Mono Black ina while.
Even in the Red Splash; I still have NO Fetches; cuz again at 25 lands; I think Fetches are actually bad to be thinning even if they are Fixing the Red. But with all the dual lands that make B/R; you don't need the Fetches to get your Red for the Red Splash.
So again; who is running Fetches in Mono Black now?
Your original post on the first page runs 4x Polluted Delta and 3x Bloodstained Mire???
I read all your posts and admire what are you trying to accomplish. So pls don't care much about haters. I was never able to build at least a deck deck, so I always use deck of someone others. That's why Google found me this webpage and your thread. And that's why even don't play the deck because of my heavy red meta, I still read through all posts and still trying to support you and encourage you to develop the deck.
Even though my black cards are now in my UBw Esper Dragons deck, I still would like to return to the Mono B deck from time to time.
Please keep up the good work and feel my support. Thank you!
Mono U Draw & Go fan
Decks:
Modern - Mono U Tron, UR Delver
Legacy - UR Delver
Pauper - BGRUW Tron, Mono U Delver, Mono B Control
Ahh gotcha; yea; the date of that deck was months ago; before I took the advice of some posters who shared their Statistical numbers of Thinning strategies.
But it's not totally unheard of to play Fetches in a Mono Color deck; you're basically removing 2 Lands from your deck when you play one of the Fetches; which gives you better odds of better top decks; and allows you to Shuffle your deck.
With different cards too that allow you to DELVE; the Fetches help that as well.
But; as I mentioned I have since changed my stance on that; at 25 lands I think Fetching hurts you; thinning 2 lands out of your deck early ends up mana screwing you and giving you problems sometimes for the top end of the deck.
So I neither disagree or agree; but someone who shared their work made a great argument; so I adopted it.
Hey thanks; no I normally don't care about the Haters anymore to be honest; but I felt there was an opportunity to take something someone said; that was perceived to be a bit borderline trolly; and explain my thought process a bit more indepth.
So no worries...
I appreciate the feedback!!
And if your Meta is heavy RED; you might want to consider checking out the RED Splash list I just posted.
I'm actually encouraged that this will hold up a better game VS those decks.
There's LESS Cards in the main that do damage to ourselves; and now we have more cards that can kill their early creatures; while Kolaghan's Commands punish them for sandbagging....
So I am actually quite encouraged by the new direction... Wasn't it you that gave the idea?? Maybe perhaps not; either way I tried it and have greatly enjoyed it thus far.
And; WE did.
Happy to report the first test run of this variation felt like a Success.
I honestly didn't feel like any of my matchups overwhelmed me with anything that I couldn't handle; even with the 1 Round that I lost.
WIN 2-1 ROUND 1 VS UR Dragons (SIDE PLAN: -1 Kolaghan's Command, -1 Bile Blight, +2 Liliana Vess = Midrange Plan)
-Lots and Lots of Thunderbreak and Stormbreath; and Black just eats that alive... Got the Merciless Executioners going; Kolaghan's Commands and the Sieges; and my opponent just couldn't get ahead of the removal.
-Game 1 I was mana screwed and stuck for a few turns; and so it did end in a loss.
-But Game 2 and 3 the removal synergy was just too much.
LOSS 0-2 ROUND 2 VS Bant Heroic (SIDE PLAN: -4 Sign in Blood, -1 Ugin, -1 Sidisi, -2 Thoughtseize, +4 Pharika's Cure, +4 Drown in Sorrow = Aggro Plan)
-Heroic decks are supposed to fold up and die to us... I'm not really sure what happened; the round was a bit of a blur; I think for starters I didn't keep good hands.
-I didn't see hardly any of my Executioners; and IDK; maybe the Bant version just runs alot more creatures or have better ways of getting through the deck to get gas?
-Dude just seemed to have nothing but gas... I'm calling FLUKE on this.
WIN 2-1 ROUND 3 VS Abzan Midrange (SIDE PLAN: -2 Ultimate Price, +2 Liliana Vess = Midrange Plan)
-It was a grindy type of match...
-GM1 he was mana screwed and I had Pitiless Hordes x2 going and he scooped fairly quick.
-GM2 He had a few Thoughtseize and Duress; smart player; he knew I was playing Mono Black Control; generally I always play Control; and GM1 he only saw Black cards... so he brought in his Control Package and it did a pretty good job eating me up.
-GM3 was definitely the Grindy one; we went back and fourth back and fourth; but then I stuck a late Palace Siege onto KHANS; Liliana was a BEAST as well here; she managed the game; and I got some KEY tutors off her. Played really well and got the win with Pitiless Hordes, Liliana, and x2 Sieges x1 on KHANS and x1 on Dragons. Anything he cast died; so it was over.
-Interesting thing happened in this match; ELSPETH happened... When it hit; my stomach dropped; I feared the Elspeth... but then something interesting happened. I cast Bile Blight; wipe the Tokens; and DASH Pitiless Horde; suddenly... NO ELSPETH!! I did this 2 times in Game 3 and also 1 time in Game 2... It was surprisingly effective. I knew there was a reason I loved Pitiless Horde.
WIN 2-0 ROUND 4 VS UW Heroic (SIDEBOARD PLAN: -4 Sign in Blood, +4 Drown in Sorrow)
-Just like I expected; we annihilated this...
-UW runs approx 14 to 18 creatures; depending upon the build; and so Merciless Executioners around Turn 3 and beyond are great; and the Early removal on Turn 2 is great. A Well Timed Thoughtseize; and some Kolaghan's Commands to pick away at their hand; and it's a cake walk. Also; be sure to nab Treasure Cruise if you have the removal to kill their creatures and just don't want them to RESTOCK.
-Still don't know how Bant Heroic beat me............
ALLSTARS:
First Up --- PITILESS HORDE He was beast!!!! The way he took down Elspeth so efficiently and easily already makes me fully on the Horde bandwaggon even though I already was. But then there was a situation where I Thoughtseized my OP; knew he didn't have much of anything other than the Rhino that was already in Play. I play my Pitiless Horde for 3 and stone wall him from attack for a few turns while I draw; Sign in Blood; and get nothing but gas going. Then Palace Sieges to mitigate the Damage the Horde is doing me; and then suddenly things don't look so bleak. Even if he attacks with Rhino; I'm happy to lose my Horde in that exchange to stop the damage. And if I attack; and he wants to take that exchange; that's fine too cuz I get my Horde back. Love this option!!!
Second Up --- Empty the Pits Almost love this card so much that I want 2 now... but it's not going to happen. The few times I saw this card; every single time it was GREAT!!!! A Empty the Pits making 3 Zombies EOT when your opponent just tapped out for say an Elspeth or something big and then untap; cast Executioner to kill whatever it was creature wise they played; then DASH a Horde for 11??? I mean the plays off a EOT Empty the Pits were just great every time it came up. I won a few games just with this card. 1 Game was a close one; and Empty the Pits finished the game!! Another Nice Option!
Third Up --- Palace Siege I mean do I even need to at this point? This is one of the key Focal points of the deck... However; because of Kolaghan's Command; we now don't have to rely on it so heavily. And because of the power of some of the other creatures like Pitiless Horde and Empty the Pits; we don't have to rely on it to win. But it's just amazing!!! Really sets things up for us to go long game and win grindy matches.
Kolaghan's Command wasn't an All Star; but everytime I played it I loved it, it was def worth splashing Red for!!
FUTURE OUTLOOK:
I really like this deck going forward for a good while!!!
1.) Heavy Burn Decks: First of all; there aren't as many cards in the 60 now that hurt us... Kolaghan's Command really smoothed things out; although it's not a Read the Bones; the synergy it provides makes it feel like it's generating great advantages and synergy. SO going forward; I feel like we have a better game plan VS MORE decks now; and we're not just going to get eaten alive by Burn Heavy decks.
2.) Midrange Decks: AKA Dragon Decks, Merciless Executioners in this deck give us strong games VS Thunderbreak Dragon decks. And honestly; my shop is littered heavily with Dragon Decks right now. Mardu Dragons; UR Dragons; Jund Dragons; GR Monsters/Dragons... Dragons Dragons Dragons. And Black just eats that stuff for breakfest; and with the Synergy of Merciless Executioners and being able to buy them back and keep replaying them; those Midrange Decks shouldn't stand much of a chance.
3.) Control Decks; I noticed a few Control Decks tonight; Esper and UB. These matchups are generally 50/50. They're not great for us; but they're not great in their favor either. Discard always plays out like that... They hate playing us! The games are just unpredictable... I really like the 4 Duress and 2 Liliana Plan to go along with the MB Thoughtseize and Kolaghan's Commands. I don't know if it'll work; but I like the plan... Just remember; you don't always have to play Turn 1 Duress or Turn 1 Thoughtseize. Sometimes it's ok to hold those back a little bit; maybe play them a turn before they bout to play something you know can hurt you... Or play them before you play a bomb to push it through... But I like where we are at with them...
4.) Aggro Decks; again; Kolaghan's Command just feels like it gives us a tool here for them to go along with the Blights and Ultimate Prices and Downfalls. Kolaghan's Command really plays nice with the rest of that removal and doesn't stress it out; prior to Kolaghan's Command; we were playing Read the Bones basically... Read the Bones helps the Opponent..... So yea; I feel like we are in a much better place now mainboard!
So I am really really high on this list right now... I like it alot of the field in general right now!
POSSIBLE CHANGES:
*Mainboard*
-NONE! I really like where the Mainboard is at; VS Everybody...
*Sideboard*
-I think we are pretty solid VS Aggro; so I think we can trim down on the Pharika's Cure; maybe even cut them all together?
-I also think we can trim down the number of Drowns; 3 I think will be fine.
+I think we need a bit more SAC effects. I'm debating on if I want to run Self-Inflicted Wound > Foul-Tongue Invocation. I really like Self Inflicted Wound; it does 2 Damage which plays really well with the rest of the deck. It comes down a Turn earlier to Merciless Executioner. So Turn 2 kill a Caryatid, Turn 3 kill something Important. I do feel like the Heroic Matchup pots alot of Stress on the Merciless Executioners; meaning we really want them.... If we don't see them; then things start getting out of hand once they get out of the early game; or are smart enough to sandbag creatures and start dropping them in 2s. If that's the case; I still think Either of those Edict spells works... Although we don't play Dragons; Foul-Tongue is still a solid Edict Removal Spell; and works VS any of the other Dragons decks; could bring a few in as extra support.
+Brain Maggot??? Because of the Kolaghan's Commands; and because we already used Palace Sieges... I'm really considering a card like Brain Maggot in the sideboard VS some decks; specifically CONTROL. You Brain Maggot; take their best card; now they have to burn removal on the Maggot; but then we play Kolaghan's Command and get the Maggot back and take their best card again. Or once we get the Palace Sieges on line; then it just gets really annoying. I wonder.....? I think I'm going to play with this idea...
POTENTIAL PITFALLS/WORRIES:
1.) I have to say; Kolaghan's Command; although I sing it's praises cuz it benefits us; I actually feel a bit scared by it against us... All of our Removal is Black; and Kolaghan's Command kind of turns off our Removal because it brings back those creatures anyways... BUT THEN our Removal is also recyclable to a certain degree too. So perhaps we equalize that and it's not as bad as it seems...
2.) Outpost Siege; I really fear this card; and perhaps it should be #1 over the KC. We don't really have a way of dealing with this till Turn 8; unless we nab it with a early Thoughtseize; but even that's not a plan at all. I'm starting to think perhaps I want the 2nd Ugin sitting around in the 75. The funny thing is; I play a Mardu Dragons deck that runs both Kolaghan's Command and Outpost Siege; and in the side there's Palace Siege... Good gosh; if that catches on, Mono Black/r might find it's match. Alot of ugly things that we couldn't deal with. Someone I know plays Mardu with alot of my style in it; Mardu Charms; Sieges; Commands; and this is why it's on my radar; I think that deck could give us problems. They even run the Utter Ends to kill our Sieges.
And sure; we have the Discard stuff that can nab these things; but I guess the thing that is scary about these 2 specifically; is they help your opponent recycle things that we may have already taken care of. That may really run our resources short.... Perhaps; we just treat that match like a CONTROL match; side out some of the removal; bank solely on setting up the Palace Siege/Commands and Executioners.
Other than that... I even like where the Sideboard is at right now.
ENJOY!
I ran Rottens MB and made some changes to the SB.
4 Duress
2 Cure
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
3 Drown
1 Plague
1 Risen Executioner
2 Liliana
R1 vs Bw Warriors
G1 was an easy win. Just removed all his creatures, stuck a Siege and dash Horde a couple of times
Sided: +2 Cure +3 Drown -4 Sign -1 Seize (I think)
G2 I cruxed him when he was flooding and then he end phased Secure the Wastes and my Bile Blight was a turn after he killed me.
G3 He had no board presence on T5, so dropped a Siege... (got double Duressed this game)
R2 vs Atarka Red
G1 I drew no removal and he dropped a couple of Outbursts...
Sided: +2 Cure +3 Drown +1 Plague -4 Sign -2 Seize
G2 Drowned for a +3 and then dropped Siege
G3 Plague + 2 Sieges beats this deck kinda hard (he was also stuck on 2 mana)
R3 vs Jeskai Dragons
G1 I mulled to 5 and kept an ok hand (my 6 hand was 3 Fountains + BB spells...) he ended up flooding out while I was looping Executioners with Commands and then I triple Sieged him
Sided: +2 Liliana -1 Command -1 Bile Blight (Blight was a mistake, not sure what else to take out)
G2 Lets just say a massacre happened. He couldn't stick a creature and I ended up Sieging him and then did Pits for 7.
R4 vs Ojutai Bant
G1 I kept a decent hand, but he got Protectors + Raptors out...
Sided: +2 Wound +1 Drown -1 Bile -2 Price (Mistakes were made...shouldn't've put in the Drown and also should've gone -2 Seize +2 Lili)
G2 I just couldn't draw then removal to deal with his threats. I also jumped the gun with a Downfall (onto a Fleecemane) then he dropped Courser and I drew a Blight... This game was easily winnable, I just played it badly. Also, I hate Dromoka's Command...
Ended up 3-1 and coming second, also think I've basically found my fav deck this format
Nice!!! Happy to see anytime others experience success with the lists; makes me feel like I'm not as crazy. HAHA
One thing I noted... really the only thing I noted in your Round by Round breakdown; I never side out Sieges.
Sieges play such an important role in the path to victory no matter the matchup that I don't ever side those out.
Do you still feel that was the right sideboard plan? Just curious...
VS Aggro; the 2 Life Drain is the Key Component.
VS Midrange; the KHANS Get a Creature Back IMO is the Key Component; you start bringing back Executioners and that just really wrecks them.
VS Conrol; the 2 Life Drain AND/OR the Creature Back is actually both very good vs them.
Other than that 1 little thing I noted; fantastic job...
As a side note; VS those dudes that Come Back and become PESKY; I was thinking perhaps Silence the Believers is the answer???
One thing I will also say; Hedonist's Trove!!!!
I love this card; but it has a Limited Situation that it's great for; so it's a Sideboard Tech for this deck.
VS decks that have Kolaghan's Commands; or Whips or ways to bring creatures back from their GY; I love the x1 Hedonist's Trove.
In those matchups; your Opponent isn't really concerned about you killing their creatures.
But what they FAIL to realize is that we too have a ton of Synergy and can generally keep killing things every turn and never really run out of Answers once the Palace Siege and Executioners are online.
However; it still does turn into a Grindy situation if their decks are well designed; WELCOME Hedonist's Trove.
The Controlly version of this deck wants to go long game... so I imagine a game where we're just trading back and fourth; he's running out of Threats; and we're keeping up with Answers.
Play the Trove; we not only remove their GY; but we get all of theiR Threats; and lands.
VS Decks like Mardu; alot of those decks we can cast their Threats even if we don't get their lands to use... Their Threats are mostly Red; we have Red.
VS Whip decks; sure alot of their threats are Green; but that's still ok even if we can't cast their threats; because it simply just shuts off their Strategy; PERIOD.
Thoughtseize, not Siege. Sorry, only wrote Seize without thinking of how easy it would be to confuse with Siege. May bad :D.
The main thing I need to work on is my sequencing. I think I played a couple of things at the wrong time instead of bluffing removal (like Erebos vs the Bant list).
What about Tarmods Crypt instead of Trove? While it doesn't add devo for Erebos, it comes down whenever and doesn't have to be tapped out for.
I like the idea of Silence, have to find room for it.
I recommend people try out Risen Executioner if you haven't (vs Control).
Ahhh yes; that does make alot more sense.
I haven't tried Risen Executioner yet... YET
But it's on my radar and I do plan to get me some as well; I'm not sure how I like it or how it will play in this style of deck; but nevertheless; I like this card alot.
As far as Tormod's Crypt > Trove; yea that's probably honestly better way to go; but I fully admit sometimes I don't play the "Perfect" or "Great" card; instead I like having a kind of Wild Card in my Sideboard; something that no one expects; something that if it resolves; it's Blow Out.
That's how I feel about the Trove; if it resolves; it has the effect of removing their GY yes; which that's what Tormod's Crypt does; but as an extra added bonus; you get to use their creature threats against them.
VS Kolaghan's Commands Decks; or Whip Decks; we will have some ways to use their threats against them; which IMO creates blow outs and makes Trove a Win Condition where Tormod's Crypt is not.
It's just one of those crazy cards that everyone likes but no one runs or expects... Unless of course you're ME.
Not to mention Erebos. I'm actually quite tempted to try it as a one of mained in my list. Just due to the amount of Den Protector or decks that use delve in my area atm.
Well we usually don't have that many creatures in the bin, and it's a hard to deal with threat, outside of Vault, Dissipate and Utter end they can't deal with it.
I get what you're saying. while those cards are good fun, I'm more inclined to make lists the best they can be over fun :D. That's just how I play haha. I might even give it a shot.
I played against an Esper control list (running 2-3 Elspeth, 2-3 Ashiok and 3 Narset MB). To be perfectly honest, I stuggled. We only played G1s and I was beaten easily each time. I was probably playing the matchup wrong though.
Agent is definitely a Fine Option; although I really like what the Trove does; can't deny that Agent of Erebos synergizes with our GY Recursion Strategies much better.
I'll probably end up going this route myself; and I'd probably make room for x2.
2.) Risen Executioner: Yea I agree; we don't run many creatures; and even the few creatures we run; we're getting them back out of the GY. So even if we have say a Merciless Executioner or 2 in the GY; we return 1 or both with Sieges or Commands; and the Risen still ends up being a normal cost. So this too also synergizes; it might even be better than Pitiless Hordes???
3.) VS Esper: The key thing to get going is the Palace Sieges and Kolaghan's Commands; you don't ever care if they are killing your creatures... So your Thoughtseize and Duress and Commands (Discarding) are hitting Enchantment Hate; EXILE effects; and any ugly Threats that you can't deal with out of your hand. Resolve Palace Sieges; Kolaghan's Commands; and start undoing all their work... They're countering our Discard Spells; our Threats like Pitiless Hordes; and anything else we bring out of the side. Throw a Empty the Pits out there, if it gets countered fine.
I'm not sure of the setup you're running; but that's how I work that matchup; the key thing is to force them into bad plays with all the discard and tossing out your Non Siege Threats. Once the coast is clear; drop the Sieges; and rebuild the resources.
One thing that I want to try when I pick up the list again and run it is Brain Maggot.
Synergizes with all our Creature Recursion; and what I like about Brain Maggot is you look at their hand; take their best card; something that forces them to use Removal on the Maggot and dictate the terms of that play; then we end up bringing them back to keep doing it... I don't know; it seems like it could be worth a look.
It could be, but Executioner can't be given pseudo haste, which can actually be a downside. I'll give Executioners a shot over Horde next time I play the list. Horde can also act as a blocker in a pinch, which Executioner can't.
Yea, i figured that's how it goes. I think I was just playing the matchup wrong and trying to play around the counter spells instead of playing into them and just outlasting the 4-5 most people mainboard. As to my setup, the main is your main (well the one you posted on May 16th).
I really like the Maggot idea. I'll have to try and find room for it, just not sure where...
I'll be giving Agent a Try.
The more I think of it; I think I'm going to stick with the Pitiless Hordes; but please tell me how you liked the Risen Executioners in place of the Hordes; I am curious.
The Maggots are in the sideboard.
I'm assuming you mean you like Pitiless Horde > Risen Executioner?
That's the only thing that makes sense... LOL
And to that; I would agree 100... I like the Hordes more too; that's not to say that Risen Executioner doesn't have it's moments.
I think it is pretty good; but I just prefer Hordes more VS more people.
Let us know how you do.
Here is the list I've been playing around with.
3 Merciless Executioner
2 Pitiless Horde
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Abhorrent Overlord
Sorcery (8)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Read the Bones
2 Crux of Fate
Instant (10)
3 Ultimate Price
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Whip of Erebos
Enchantments (6)
2 Dictate of Erebos
4 Palace Siege
Planeswalker (2)
1 Liliana Vess
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
Lands (24)
4 Jungle Hollow
4 Llanowar Wastes
10 Swamp
4 Temple of Malady
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Duress
2 Pharika's Cure
3 Self-Inflicted Wound
1 Ultimate Price
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Naturalize
1 Whip of Erebos
2 Windstorm
2 Drown in Sorrow
Essentially I am splashing green for Garruk and enchantment removal. Fun interactions that I had in mind were Dictate of Erebos and Abhorrent Overlord, but they may certainly be out of place in the deck.
The reason I went with the B/g combo is mostly because I am already running a midrange deck in these colors and it seemed like a fun idea to try and create a control version.
I really like the deck!!
I've wanted to try Dictate of Erebos as well; just never really felt I needed to.
Some suggestions:
1.) I would pull the Overlord; although it seems IN-THEORY good; it's not. I ran it for a little while; and it was cool; but seriously not needed. Your high point is Garruk Apex Predator; which I also think is a bit questionable; but I'd rather that be the high point and not Overlord.
2.) Whip of Erebos; I don't think it's needed; with so few creatures; you really just want your Palace Sieges and that's all you really need. I would just run 4 Sieges and leave the Whip out.
3.) With Merciless Executioner + Palace Siege synergies; I really believe you could drop 1 of either Ultimate Price or Bile Blight; depending upon your meta. You have 4 Downfalls; 3 Executioner; 2 Crux; Dictates; Thoughtseize; all of which help to keep creatures down. So I think you could do a 3-2 split of Blight and Price or reverse. 3-2 split of Price and Blight.
4.) I feel like you're going to need additional Draw. 2 Read the Bones and the Erebos is fine; but you're going to want I feel Sign in Bloods.
5.) I feel like you could also -1 Dictate; it's not going to be great VS everybody; and because of the Sidisi; you could fetch it up if you need it. Personally I would rather just a 4th Merciless Executioner and cut Dictates out all together; but there's obviously a reason you're running it. I like the card; and almost ran it myself a few times; but never felt it was needed. I know you like the interactions of Dicate + Overlord; I think the Interaction of Dictate + Executioner and Sidisi is better. But I don't know that Dictate is really needed in the end; and perhaps maybe stick it in the side and bring it in when you're up against Midrange/Creature decks. Or if you know your meta is heavy Midrange/Creature; then keep it in the main; but drop it down to 1.
6.) I feel like you need to tune your 5 CMC slot... there's too many.
7.) I sincerely believe you could run Radiant Fountain to help mitigate some of the damage you're going to take. The Green is just simply a Splash; so I feel as though you could run the Fountains.
You really only have 1 Card that you need GREEN for; so I think 8 GREEN Sources is fine; and so I would replace the 4 Llanowar Wastes with 4 Radiant Fountain.
You could also consider the Sultai TRI Land that gives you Green and Black; yes it's a Tap Land; but 10 Tap Lands is not that big of a deal; trust me... I'd rather see that than a land that could CAUSE pain.
4 Merciless Executioner
2 Pitiless Horde
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Sorcery: 11
3 Thoughtseize
2 Read the Bones
4 Sign in Blood
2 Crux of Fate
2 Ultimate Price
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
Enchantments: 5
4 Palace Siege
1 Dictate of Erebos
Planeswalkers: 2
2 Garruk, Apex Predator
4 Jungle Hollow
4 Temple of Malady
2 Opulent Palace
4 Radiant Fountain
11 Swamp
The way I see it with your list; Garruk is a means to an end and can gain you life to keep you in games.
My ORIGINAL version of Mono Black Control before I splashed RED, it was very very close to what you have here; but you opted to splash Green for Garruk while I used Ugin instead.
So be advised; you're going to hurt yourself a good bit... But it's almost required to get a consistent deck to run like this.
You'll want the 4 Sign in Blood; you'll want the 2 Read the Bones; the Erebos; the Thoughtseize.
So Radiant Fountain is almost a must have.
What I do like about what you're doing though is instead of UGIN; you've opted for Garruk. I actually think that's a fantastic idea!
Garruk goes along way to stabilize once we get to that range in the game.
My update may still be a bit too much on the 5 Drops; and I'd make a case to cut the Dictate of Erebos; I don't think it's needed with the Merciless Executioners; the Garruk; and all the other things going on. I'd almost rather a 3rd Crux instead even.
I also think with a Garruk Plan; you'll want 25 lands... maybe you could get away with 24; but I think I'd run it with 25.
Just some things to consider...
Keep us updated with how it does for you?
EDIT: Without the Dictate.
4 Merciless Executioner
2 Pitiless Horde
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Sorcery: 12
4 Thoughtseize
2 Read the Bones
4 Sign in Blood
2 Crux of Fate
2 Ultimate Price
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
Enchantments: 4
4 Palace Siege
Planeswalkers: 2
2 Garruk, Apex Predator
Lands: 25
4 Jungle Hollow
4 Temple of Malady
2 Opulent Palace
4 Radiant Fountain
11 Swamp
I'll tweak it to match your first suggestion (with dictate) and see how it does. I see your points against dictate though and it certainly is a card that is on the chopping block. Also I wanted to see how people felt about murderous cut? This deck has a lot less graveyard recursion as my other one so it seems a bit more viable...